HoYay clean up

• AOT: Probably Homoerotic Subtext, but Ship Tease would work.
• Railgun: Just plain cut. Not everything's a trope.
• Inu Yasha: Casnova Wannabe, maybe?
• M&H: Just cut. It's something gay happening.
• Lain: Move to "Romantic" Two-Girl Friendship.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.

^ Okay.

I tried to replace Ho Yay.Wicked with Homoerotic Subtext.Wicked, but the cut was declined.

HoYay.Voltron Legendary Defender

• Season 7 sneak peeks revealed that Shiro was previously engaged to a man named Adam prior to the Kereboros mission, where his relationship ultimately deteriorated over Shiro's choice of career over love.

It's an intentional and explicit relationship. Do I have permission to cut?

That categorically violates the definition. Cut.

Examples relating to Korra and Asami of The Legend of Korra are split across two pages, based on when the subtext went from unintentional to intentional, with the first two season being under Ho Yay and the last two under Ship Tease. I was wondering if this is correct, as it's based purely on out-of-universe knowledge, as no in-story change in the characters orientations occurs. I know all examples used to be under Ho Yay, then they were all moved to Ship Tease after the series finale, before the ones from seasons one and two were moved back to Ho Yay. Is this correct? If this was a decision already reached by the community I apologize.

I'm pretty sure it was discussed on ATT. The early seasons were unintentional so they go under Ho Yay, and rhe later seasons were intentional so they go under Ship Tease.

Maybe this thread should go under Long Term. There's a lot of Ho Yay usage out there so a clean-up would take a while.

The Inuyasha example should be Homoerotic Subtext. The point of Jakotsu is that he is a sadist who enjoys inflicting great pain on the men he takes an interest in, and that he gets some kind of sexual gratification from killing the men he 'likes'. He's fixated on Inuyasha in the story. He only mentions Miroku and Sesshoumaru in passing, in a sort of 'if I hadn't met Inuyasha first, I'd have chosen you instead' manner. So, it's not a case of a Casanova at work.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Aug 19th 2018 at 2:19:31 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Adventure Time ends up with Bubblegum and Marceline kissing and starting a relationship. Does it affect the examples on HoYay.Adventure Time and the image page itself?

They can't be examples anymore, because it's neither unintentional nor subtext.

Here's my suggestion regarding the music section: it should cover unintentionally/ambiguously homoerotic lyrics, but not interactions between band members (this violates the "no real people" guideline) or stage persona-related examples that would fall under Stage Gay. What does everyone think?

if identity politics are masturbation then CONSIDER ME JACKIN'

I just removed all the Marceline/Bubblegum entries, including the page image, so the page will need a new one.

I just commented in this Ask The Tropers post, and I want to bring it up to the thread as well.

It's a pseudo-policy statement, intended to establish a baseline for what is an appropriate use of Ho Yay. Specifically, I find it inappropriate that we would discuss people inventing sexual relationships (of any orientation) between characters young enough that explicit relationships would run afoul of our content policy.

Shipping is different, because it doesn't always involve sexuality (but a ship-fic involving actual sex between the characters of Arthur would most certainly run afoul of the P5). Subtext is also different, because it's intentional.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 1st 2018 at 10:13:31 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

The new She-Ra series just got its own page, which going by the deleted YMMV section consists of 2 characters and about 4-5 examples several of which are nattery or not-shippy going by the descriptions given. HoYay.She Ra And The Princesses Of Power

EDIT: Aren't Les Yay and Ho Yay the same trope?

Edited by lalalei2001 on Nov 14th 2018 at 4:23:56 AM

The Protomen enhanced my life.

Given that the show is written by Noelle Stevenson, it would absolutely shock me if any of the gay subtext was unintentional. I’d argue that these are all overt enough to be Ship Tease.

Yeah, if it's intentional that's where it should go. Stuff like "The dancing scene in episode 8. That is all." has no description of said scene, and "When Adora defects, she acts as if it was a personal betrayal" doesn't read as shippy without context.

Also the description "For a reboot of an 80's show about magical princesses, there sure is a lot of moments between each characters, especially with the princesses." could use serious work or probably just be cut.

EDIT: Moved the Adventure Time Marceline/PB examples to ShipTease.Adventure Time. Will move other examples from the main page there too.

DOUBLE EDIT: moved!

Edited by lalalei2001 on Nov 14th 2018 at 5:01:50 AM

The Protomen enhanced my life.

I added the old pic on HoYay.Adventure Time to ShipTease.Adventure Time. HoYay.Revolutionary Girl Utena should be cleaned up and/or examples moved to Ship Tease or Homoerotic Subtext, based on the page image:

Edited by rjd1922 on Nov 15th 2018 at 4:12:54 AM

Keet cleanup

There's been disagreement over the definition of Ho Yay going on in the aforementioned Ask the Tropers thread. Specifically, over whether Ho Yay includes a sexual element (given that the trope page describes it as "Homoeroticism, yay!")

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My thoughts on the matter: Whether or not the trope was originally intended to include a sexual element (which I am not even sure about, looking at Wayback Machine — it strikes me more as a conflation of sex and romance, rather than being about sex specifically, like how "sexual orientation" used to be understood), I am not sure it even matters. As Trope Decay says, "Trope Decay can sometimes be the result of the TV Tropes Hive Mind correcting a problem. This is particularly true when the original definition is excessively specific or the trope experiences Missing Supertrope Syndrome." I can't think of any reason we need to have "sexual gay subtext (according to fans) that wasn't intended", rather than "gay subtext (according to fans) that wasn't intended".

Plus, aligning the wiki to the "sexual" definition would be a massive effort. It's not only works with underage characters that would need to have their examples cut, every Ho Yay example would need to be evaluated to see whether it includes a sexual element. That's a lot of work for a problem that I don't see as a problem in the first place.

Also, as rjd1922 points out in the Ask the Tropers thread,

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Keet cleanup

I agree that it would be easier and better to just expand the definition of Ho Yay to include non-sexual romance too since pretty much everyone is using it this way already.

+1 to what the three people before me said.

Edited by shadowblack on Nov 16th 2018 at 11:41:33 AM

Sounds like TRS and/or long term projects may be needed, because the noted options are going to require major clean-up.

Is this in response to my post, or something else?

To the general question raised by ATT, re-initiated here in this thread.

What is classified as underage? Is it 16? 18? 21?

Edited by Wyldchyld on Dec 3rd 2018 at 12:19:53 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.