TLP Crash Rescue - Fixing prematurely launched TLPs and pages

Tabletop Game A.I. needs to be unlaunched. It's currently only able to reach 10 wicks, despite the fact that the minimum number on Wick is 12 (it could reach it if the redlinked works and/or Dune Imperium had work pages, but they don't).

Edited by Piterpicher on Apr 25th 2021 at 11:02:11 AM

What relation to Gameplay Automation? It doesn't seem to be wicked from anywhere related...

And it only has 1 index?

How about The Newest Ones in the Book or something?

I don't feel like a link on Gameplay Automation seems appropriate here, given that the trope has no mention of tabletop games (it mentions Mahjong computer games, but that's not it). The oldest example is from 1965, so put it on Older Than Cable TV. And that results in 11, close but not close enough.

If there are The Computer Is a Cheating Bastard in the automation, then it can crosswick at those examples.

Also Scythe's A.I. Roulette could crosswick too.

Nim's Perfect Play A.I....

Any Artificial Stupidity or Brilliance?

Edited by Malady on Apr 25th 2021 at 6:36:28 AM

I linked to it on Perfect Play A.I. for Nim's example, as it seemed like it'd be the most natural to put it there. With that in mind, it managed to reach 12, so I guess it can stay for now.

Edited by Piterpicher on Apr 25th 2021 at 3:41:05 PM

Mole Monster got launched without warning by Rock Raider in a state where it still had ZC Es, punctuation issues, and on-page notes not intended for the finished version of the trope.

Did they come up for stealth launching before or did I misremember that?

Misread the comments in the draft; this wasn’t a stealth launch. The other issues still stand, though.

Rock Raider again? (shrugs)

I wouldn't call it a stealth launch as such, but they essentially came back to the draft after a fairly long period of inactivity, announced they were going to launch, and did that.

Most of the on-page issues have been handled, but it's also true that there's some overlap with Sand Worm that isn't being handled very well. Sand Worm purports to be about giant wormlike or serpentine monsters that move underground, although its Land Shark redirect and general use expand it to anything that burrows very rapidly and attacks things on the surface. Mole Monster wants to be about a kind of video game enemy archetype, specifically, that stays underground and only becomes vulnerable when emerging to attack.

Does that seem like a distinction worth making? There are at least a few examples on Mole Monster I wouldn't put under Sand Worm, but in practice there's considerable overlap. It would have helped to have more examples to help make it clearer what it's about (for example, thinking about it now, something like a Mario Rocky Wrench, a mole creature that hides in a hole and pops out only to throw things at you, would be a case of Mole Monster but not of Sand Worm).

Also, Mole Monster doesn't seem like that good of a name — it suggests monstrous moles or just burrowing creatures more than broadly any enemy hidden underground. Burrowing Mook, Underground Mook, Underground Enemy or the like might be a better fit.

Personally, I'd suggest sending the whole thing back to TLP. Most of the fixes that have been done so far are either minor grammar things that can be reincorporated without too much trouble or were taken from comments that the draft sponsor evidently didn't feel like incorporating.

Thank you for that insightful comment.

Yeah, I could not tell that Mole Monster was about video game enemies at first glance as opposed to...monsters who are moles.

Sand Worm also seems to be more specifically focused on worms (and land sharks), so I think they can be distinct.

Edited by mightymewtron on Apr 25th 2021 at 3:21:44 PM

Well, it's true that Rock Raider just keeps getting brought up here. It's always something. They seem to keep rushing their launches, and this is after we've finally gotten them to read the guidelines. This one wasn't as bad as the other issues, but it's still a noticeably under-prepared launch.

Then again, I can't entirely blame them for this one; the concerns weren't actually discussed on the draft at all before they launched it. The community has to really step it's game up. and I'm including myself in that, because I dropped the ball as well. Honestly, this time I'm not inclined to blame Rock for it.

Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 25th 2021 at 3:27:10 PM

Do certain ground-type Pokémon (such as Diglett) count as mole monsters and some other ground-type Pokémon (such as Onix) count as sandworms?

Edited by Nen_desharu on Apr 25th 2021 at 10:32:20 AM

If I'm reading the description correctly, the important part is burrowing underground to avoid attacks. So any Pokémon that can learn Dig would count.

Also, by that metric, the Golden Sun example is misuse. Setting aside the fact that the link is wrong (Golden Sun: The Lost Age has its own page), King Scorpion burrows in the sand while you're chasing it down, but it stops doing that once the actual fight starts.

In terms of cross-wicking Pokemon pages to Mole Monster, there’s a recurring issue involving shoehorns of the "is an example because of one move" variety. The Pokemon that get Dig through level-up usually have lore about their ability to burrow, which makes for examples with enough context. On the other hand, there are dozens of Mons that learn Dig through Technical Machine only and have no lore about their digging prowess. An easy fix would be specifying what the move does, but this is the sort of thing that gets missed easily on those pages.

For an example, compare "Sandile hides under the sand to avoid enemies and hunt prey, and can use Dig (a two-turned attack) to avoid taking damage during the turn it's underground" to "Charizard/Raikou/Piplup/whatever can learn Dig through TM".

Edited by Vandagyre on Apr 25th 2021 at 8:30:26 AM

I concur with that the key point seems to be avoiding attacks by staying underground and only coming up to attack, and with about limiting Pokémon examples to ones that learn Dig naturally.

Unrelatedly, I'm still a little concerned about the title. I don't think that "Mole Monster" conveys the idea the trope is going for all that well.

(Of course this would all have been a lot easier to deal with back in the draft stage, so let this serve as a lesson to us all to keep a closer eye on the launch pad, I suppose.)

Animated World Hypotheses did have a launch notice, and was launched properly, but it's only got 10 examples on the page, which feels a little undercooked. I guess it's on me for not paying attention during the launch process, though.

Edited by mightymewtron on Apr 28th 2021 at 12:49:04 PM

~Whifalk 345 stealth discarded the Janusz TLP, instead of listening to any suggestions on how to improve the draft.

As I noted in the draft:

So COVID-SR 5 R posted this draft earlier. Some of the examples are confusingly written and others lack context, and even the description is hard for me to parse. However, this troper has had a history of either ignoring concerns or overreacting to them, and I'm at the point now where I don't feel comfortable sharing my opinion on their drafts. Even if it has an undeserved hat.

I'd appreciate it if someone else were to take their own look.

Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 30th 2021 at 5:36:31 AM

The draft looks like it has potential...but I'm still curious if they're a sockpuppet of that bulma person, since Septimus suggested they shared similar geolocation.

Potential, yes, I'm just at the point where even offering light criticism seems to set them off, and I don't want to poke the bear.

Gushing About Guest Stars was rogue-launched by mariofan1000.

Also, Archived Appearance was stealth launched with only 2 net hats. Paging ~chris4449.

Unlaunched.

What about GAGS?