The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)

Looks like I cut some things I shouldn't have. I'll restore them soon.

to wit:

• VisualNovel.Kichiku Megane
• Manga.Ikki Tousen
• Webcomic.HATEFARM
• LightNovel.Ai No Kusabi
• Main.Build Tiger
• Film.Cannibal Holocaust

edited 10th Jun '12 11:56:32 PM by FastEddie

Manga.Ikki Tousen, Webcomic.HATEFARM, and Film.Cannibal Holocaust were voted to keep.

VisualNovel.Kichiku Megane, LightNovel.Ai No Kusabi, and Main.Build Tiger were voted to be cut.

Why was Ai no Kusabi cut? It's a sci-fi novel/anime with plot-related sex between adults.

No reason has been given at all. I can't even find where the discussion took place.

I'm confused about it, really.

There was no discussion about it. You can see on the voting tool here it was cut for porn.

Honestly it looks like standard BL fare to me, like Okane ga Nai which was voted to keep, so I'm not sure why this was voted against.

edited 11th Jun '12 12:44:02 AM by KuroBaraHime

Ah, thanks. Well, guess somebody can appeal for it if need be.

Anyway, back on-topic as well, I evaluated the "sex scenes" of Litchi Hikari Club. Too few to be porn. Nobody was clearly underage, and 14 was possibly the youngest, which is teenager. All that needs to be known is the context to see if it's considered okay. Well, that's just my opinion of it.

If we're going by what it officially is... Pedophilia is 10 and under, Hebophilia is 11-14, and Ebophilia is 16-19. However, I believe it was agreed to be 14 and above is considered "overage" for this. Unless a P5 or a Mod would like to correct me. I do mistakes, after all.

Incorrect. Ephebophilia and hebephilia are fringe terms unaccepted by the mainstream psychiatric communities. They have no entries in major dictionaries, and campaigns to add them to diagnostic systems like the DSM have thus far been unsuccessful. Mostly, they're used by creepy internet nerds to downplay and justify the more problematic aspects of their fetishes.

I was looking at the Wikipedia entry.

Either way, they're not all the same thing. That, and we're cutting things that are porn and pre-puberty anyway. Generally, 15 is not pedophilia unless they look that young and act that young and have actual sexual scenes. Context is quite required before anything is done. It's why every work needs to be looked at and why no "specific age" exists due to its being hard to tell with a simple age.

This is also off-topic. Things being underaged alone is not cutworthy at all. It depends the details. Porn is another story.

edited 11th Jun '12 1:30:21 AM by Hydronix

Regarding Legend Of Queen Opala, I'd like to suggest "second game only," as the second game has a Bleached Underpants version.

Obviously, the first game should be nuked. 5P: Don't bother playing it. You don't need to subsidize the alcohol industry any further.

Not familiar with Queen Opala, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to be like Litchi.

Of course it isn't, it just has explicit, anatomically-impossible, incestuous bestiality.

edited 11th Jun '12 4:35:32 AM by Ramidel

Oh, believe me, you do not want to play that game. The sex scenes are messy as hell. You lose nothing for not watching them.

The second game? Meh. I am waiting for when the author releases part II to play it, but if it keeps the same Excuse Plot as the first one, removing the sex scenes from it will do it no good.

@Sachiko: Well, a game having nothing at all is different from a game having nothing but porn; the former seems to be out of 5P jurisdiction (though still pathetic).

Hey, I have a question that (last I checked) weren't answered in the FAQ (and I'm sorry that I can't be bothered reading the past 5000 posts)

Just wondering if tropes and works themselves are being treated differently to each other; can I expect the less pornographic-exclusive tropes to return, perhaps under a different name?

Just want some general details, thanks for any info!

We don't have a precedent yet if I remember correctly.

No tropes other then naughty tentacles and falls for rapist have been cut and those were googles doing.

edited 11th Jun '12 5:51:14 AM by Shadis

Yes. The rape tropes however are pending until we get feedback from Google.

Excuse me...

But going by the description of Litchi Hikari Club as given upthread I can't understand how it cannot be cut.

I'd argue that it is meant to titillate. It's just not targeted at normal people, or even normal pedophiles. It sounds like it's targeted at really really sick bastards who get off on sexually torturing middle school children.

If you don't cut it, it will serve as a constant pain point with people complaining: "you didn't cut Litchi Hikari Club, so why did you cut X?"

I don't think it has been decided yet.

Also people will get off to anything even if its not meant for that, tdgoodrich 1s review suggests that this is not meant for getting off too.

edited 11th Jun '12 6:39:14 AM by Shadis

Iaculus: Odd, I can't find anything claiming that, only that they're just not commonly used as terms, and there is debate over whether they are mental diseases or not. Are you sure?

Re Manga.Litchi Hikari Club:

I see some confusion about how old the characters are. They're in middle school; the ringleader (Zera) dies on his 14th birthday (so he's 13 during most of the book) and the other characters are his classmates and therefore presumably about the same age. Furuya's art doesn't make them look that young, but that's what their age is supposed to be.

As the person who reported it, I don't actually think it should be cut; I don't believe the sex scenes are supposed to be titillating, they're supposed to show that the characters are depraved little monsters (they're not just teenage torture-killers, they're gay teenage torture killers!).

The thing with the little girl and the pipe: the person who turns out to be the real villain (Jaibo) does that, and he chose something as disturbing as possible in order to drive her brother over the edge so he would attack the ringleader (Zera). If I recall correctly, she doesn't die. The scene shows just enough to let the reader know what's been done to her and it isn't sexualized at all; it's horrible, and it's supposed to be horrible.

The book is over-the-top Grand Guignol horror, it's trying to be as shocking as possible. The violence is super-gory, but there's far worse stuff in American Psycho (Litchi Hikari Club at least stays away from the rape and sexual torture). The characters are kids, yes, but the entire theme of the book is Troubling Un Childlike Behavior and the characters' pathological fear of adulthood.

My local library has it in the Young Adult graphic novel collection.

Sounds to me like it is being played for horror, not pedo-pandering. Just how "on screen" explicit do they get?

Flagged Netorare Genre - this page will at least need a major cleanup, but a major part of the examples seems to be porn (as discussed in Special Efforts), so I would prefer to salvage this by splitting out the relevant adultery trope and cutting the page.

I don't think we can cut 8000 inbounds.

On the other hand, I notice that plenty of entries in the Anime & Manga section are redlinks from 5P.

This could probably use a removal of the index and a "No examples, please" tag.

Re: Litchi Hikari Club:

After having some time to sober up and cool down while I thought things over, I think I can say that this is not what the P5 is looking to cut. The guidelines state explicit sex between teens may be permitted depending on circumstances. Since none of the sex is played as titillating and the manga is more horror than anything else, as much as it pains me to say it, it is probably Wiki-Safe. That said, if P5 does torch it, don't expect me to shed a tear.

Revised verdict: Keep, but monitor, possibly lock.

Rename and redirect would let us keep the inbounds and make a less porny trope. Just saying.