The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)

Well, the anime definitely sounds like it's porn. The YMMV page even says they took out plot details to add more sex scenes.

The VN looks like it might actually a decent sized plot, but the page we have mostly about the anime, soooo...

Redirect the Anime page to the Visual Novel (create it if it doesn't already exist) one?

Assuming we want to keep the VN of course.

That action depends on whether or not the visual novel is itself porn.

@ Lu: No, I agree the anime is porn, that's why I'm asking about the VN. We don't have a page for the latter, so we need more context on that.

Well, thing is, even we could have a page on the VN, we don't much info about it on our page about the anime, not enough to make the page.

So we'd need someone who's played the game to come in, say if they think it's completely porn or not, and make a page for it. And I don't think there's any English version, official or unofficial, so that's unlikely.

edited 5th Jun '12 1:00:12 PM by KuroBaraHime

I know nothing about the visual novel. I've never heard anyone on the VN subforum talk about it either. I don't know if we have anyone to go to in order to get some details about this one.

If Arha cant find an English version then its like it dose not exist.

@4391 Wait, really, someone flagged Gunsmith Cats? There is one character whose backstory involves having been forced to take drugs so that she could be forced into being a prostitute that appeals to those of questionable taste. But it's always shown as bad, and while it has been a while since I read it, they don't show anything that would get anyone off. No porn or pro-pedo material in there.

I think we can all agree that Gunsmith Cats is Gun Porn, not real porn, and it hasn't been flagged, so there really isn't a need to discuss it further.

Getting the focus back on stuff that's actually been flagged:

• FanFic.Calvin At Camp: Not really sure why this has been flagged, as there's little to nothing on the page that suggests porn or pedo-pandering.
• Webcomic.Tally Road: This one's an erotic furry comic, and while it appears to be Porn with Plot, it is definitely NSFW, and from the sound of things, explicit as hell.

edited 5th Jun '12 2:10:22 PM by TwoGunAngel

Like with Kamisama Dolls, Natsuiro Kiseki seems to be suffering from a lack of available information.

Preliminary Report:

• Manga and anime both currently unlicensed
• No content ratings available
• Wikipedia lists demographic as seinen Disclaimer
  English Wikipedia's veracity with regard to demographics has been disputed
  Other Manga in Same Magazine
  Mononoke, Bamboo Blade, Saki

Despite lack of content ratings, the trailer (at bottom) looks relatively innocuous.

Also note that the anime is not yet completed.

Beginning with episode 1.

Update the first: Halfway through ep. 1. Nothing to report, aside from minor artistic QC issues, not that P5 cares.

Update the second: One incidental bra shot, not overly long or nothing, but still a gratuitous bra shot of a 13-14 year old.

Thanks for being on top of things, Kuro.

edited 5th Jun '12 3:30:02 PM by tdgoodrich1

Natsuiro Kiseki manga runs in Young Gangan, which definitely a Seinen magazine.

Re: Natsuiro Kiseki

Halfway through ep. 5. Clean, but again, artistic QC issues. (Why yes, they do really bug me.)

Update the first: Still clean apart from some teasing between the for girls.

Time for a dinner break, will return shortly.

Update the second: Back. Taking look at ep. 9 now. In case anyone was wondering, stouts don't go that well with asian cuisine. Looks like a beach and hot spring episode. My favorite.

Update the third: Heavy censor steam in the hot spring, and for no apparent reason, the dumb one of the four was going in her bikini top. Also some rather obvious Male Gaze and Gainaxing from a girl explicitly the same age as the four. Not that it's obvious.

Update the fourth: Well, that sure happened. Not expecting to see use of Invisible Streaker. For god-knows-what reason, the blonde turned invisible. When she was visible to the viewer (but not in-universe) she was shown neck-up most of the time, but when not, Barbie Doll Anatomy was used. Probably just a bad episode, but still problematic. And don't get me started on the QC issues.

Verdict: Keep, but clean

Pro:

• Definitely not porn
• First two episodes were fairly clean

Con:

• Despite that, there was definitely fanservice of the 13-14 y.o. protagonists
• Also rather obvious fanservice of an equivalently-aged girl with the "excuse" of Older Than They Look
• Seinen demographic

Since 2/3 eps. viewed were almost entirely clean, I don't think this counts as pedo-pandering but the problematic material in the remaining ep. makes it hard to say that no action is needed.

edited 5th Jun '12 5:29:09 PM by tdgoodrich1

Since I was the one who brought it up in the first place, I'm going to state (again) that I personally don't think Gunsmith Cats counts as paedobait (EDIT: taking the work into consideration as a whole), and I reached this opinion in spite of the elements that may potentially fall afoul of the guidelines, which is why I wanted to raise this for pre-emptive discussion in order to get some (hopefully) less-biased opinions.

It has not been flagged yet, so try not to panic.

edited 6th Jun '12 5:26:58 AM by Pyrite

Is that sort of preemptive action really a good idea anyway?

Trust me, I never have any good ideas. Having said that, I didn't want to clutter the worklist.

edited 5th Jun '12 9:58:34 PM by Pyrite

Well, this isn't really the first example of it I've seen so far. I'm just wondering in general. `.`

While there are two works I have in mind that I think are perfectly okay, but might get flagged by some over-zealous person, but at the moment, I'm inclined to let everyone focus on whittling down the rather large list of things that have had their cut's appealed or have already been flagged.

Honestly, some of these posts look like they are going out of their way to find a reason to cut something based on incidental and trivial things rather than looking at a work as a whole in relationship in other works in the genre. We aren’t trying to cut every single thing that shows a kid in his/her underwear or taking a bath once in awhile! It isn’t like we are looking to label Norman Rockwell a pervert for the occasional skinny dipping painting.

I know I shouldn't be taking this personally, but my nerves are a little shot at the moment (long story). Anyway, I think the reason why some of us are raising these as issues is that unlike the decision-making process for "porn", which is usually based on ratio and intensity of explicit content, the overall approach to "paedobait" has been much stricter - I think it's been described as "zero-tolerance" in the past, and we're (unduly?) worried that this extends to "zero-tolerance against problematic elements within a work" rather than "zero-tolerance against problematic works", as we're not entirely sure where the two overlap.

I see your point. And yeah, there are a few works I'm tempted to bring up just to get them out of the way instead of having a lingering doubt in the back of my mind about how they might be judged. At the moment I'm inclined to just not tie up this thread with them.

Although maybe we need to split up some of these threads.

Perhaps have this thread be for general questions about policies. A second thread could be for feedback on works that are being reviewed but that may not necitate there own dedicated thread. A third thread could be for "Does this need to be flagged?" type questions.

edited 6th Jun '12 6:46:30 AM by Catbert

Tally Road: Gets explicit ~ February 22nd 2009, after a year of story telling. Just in case someone wanted to flick through and said it wasn't because they didn't go far enough. Was getting risqué earlier in 2009/ late 2008.

How I misread February 2009 as August 2010 is anyone's guess.

edited 6th Jun '12 8:53:16 AM by TheOneWhoTropes

Did I miss something? I noticed all the Rape Tropes are well, gone.

They are being renamed.

No, there's a big "do not want" banner on all of them. Even stuff like Mind Rape or something.

That's... I don't even know what to say. o_o