Redefine and Rename (alt titles crowner 4/9): Amazon Chaser

What's wrong with settling that in the YKTTW?

edited 22nd Feb '12 2:10:57 PM by captainpat

Yes, and make the "currently named Hot Amazon" trope into a subtrope of one or both of them.

This.

edited 22nd Feb '12 3:07:36 PM by MarqFJA

Oh nothing. I just wanted to make sure everyone thought it was a good idea before I started them.

You got Staff Chick wrong on your list. There's a reason we're renaming it something along the lines of Healer Chick or White Mage Girl.

I guess the reason why I separate #2 and #3 on my list is because I associate "attractive" with looks and the reaction they produce. If that doesn't help draw a distinction between the two, you can think of it as the distinction between "sleeping with them" and "having a relationship with them".

Edit: See also this YKTTW, which is basically my #4.

edited 22nd Feb '12 10:41:48 PM by MorganWick

The only two ways I see to fix the misusage of this trope is to do a wick cleanup and rename the trope or redefine it to fit the misuse (I'd rather not do this).

Yes, start All Women Are Delicate and Delicate Is Beautiful (or Fragile, I don't really care).

@Morgan: I've read your introductory post, and I see you've also linked to my YKTTW, Single Guy Seeks Tough Girl.

I admit, I didn't know about Hot Amazon until someone commented on my YKTTW, and when I read the trope, I agree with you. It defines the trope in terms of the man's reaction, but the title makes it very unclear. The current description for that trope could actually go onto my YKTTW.

We had a repair shop crowner that voted to clear all examples on the Action Girl page and make it an index. Someone set up a sandbox and I tried to get the pages cut but was rejected for some reason.

But back on topic, Treblain's point has been brought up before, female who can win a fight has No Plot Relevance without further details. Minoans had female bull fighters, Sumeria had female war gods and city guards, the vikings had a god dedicated to women who fell in battle, Deborah led the Hewbrew armies when other judges weren't feeling up to it. it's not new or revolutionary. It is rarer in reality than in fiction because good mothers were hard to come by but as far as fiction goes you might as of say chairs are for sitting. Renaming "Hot Amazon" "Hot Action Girl" won't do anyone any favors.

I don't believe anyone suggested renaming Hot Amazon to Hot Action Girl. I personally only suggested that the "Action Girl is hot because she's hot" trope should be left for Fetish Fuel Wiki's Hot Action Girl trope, since it bascially runs on Fetish Fuel.

Several of the early posts in this thread suggest using Action Girl as part of the title.

That was because there's apparently considerable confusion of Hot Amazon and/or No Guy Wants an Amazon with Amazonian Beauty and/or Statuesque Stunner because the word "amazon" is technically defined in dictionaries as either or both of the latter two rather than "Action Girl who is attractive".

Relevant to this: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13302668780A00560100&page=1#1

Unless there's a trope there about an "an Action Girl I find attractive" I don't think any of those trope proposals are going to help (not saying they shouldn't be created though). We should concentrate on what we can do with Hot Amazon and save the trope proposals for the YKTTW.

"An Action Girl I find attractive" sounds like too subjective and Fetish Fuel-dependant of a Subjective Trope to be feasible.

edited 27th Feb '12 9:05:15 AM by MarqFJA

That's not even a Subjective Trope, it's an Audience Reaction. It doesn't sound like one we particularly need, either. It would be condoning all sorts of creepy gushing.

So another trope isn't going to help the misuse?

Creating Buxom Is Better to stem misuse of Boobs Of Steel and Most Common Superpower transferred roughly half the misuse to that trope, and we have misuse of those two. Besides being a bad idea in general, creating a "hot action girl" reaction wouldn't eliminate the misuse here, given past experience.

edited 28th Feb '12 11:37:17 AM by ccoa

^Although the equivalent to Buxom Is Better in this instance would be "Fighting prowess in general is considered hot", which (on my list in post 35) is closest to #2 and, oddly enough, the existing laconic. Curiously enough, the reason it seems like #1 would be the one that would fill the same purpose is that it isn't as universal a fetish as some others.

At 81% misuse, we have to do something.

I think the choices that have had support so far are:

• Keep the description the same (character is found hot in-universe because she can kick ass), rename to something less prone to misuse.
• Change the description to be about characters who like girls who kick ass to make it the true opposite of No Guy Wants an Amazon, rename to something that fits this description

Were there any others before I make the crowner?

OP already shows the problem:

@ #1> "A series centered around the premise of Hot Amazon" and ends with "Contrast No Guy Wants An Amazon."

So we already have a supposedly character trope, and it gets described as a series premise right from the start. It's all messed up. But the trope needs a definition before it gets the right description.

> Remember, this is NOT about attractive Action Girls. This is about Action Girls who are considered attractive in-universe because they are Action Girls.

Attractiveness stated to be dependent on or otherwise linked to (because if not, it's yet another X Meets Y tumor) action-ness seems to be the general idea here. But that's told clearly only by one last line in the big mess.

@ #58 Waxing Name> I see you've also linked to my YKTTW, Single Guy Seeks Tough Girl.

Related, though way too specific to affect the current problem in any way.

@ #59 Cider> it's not new or revolutionary.

Well, yeah, education is high. ;] Nor imitators pretending not to notice the real thing are anything new. Business as usual.

edited 6th Mar '12 2:26:19 AM by TBeholder

^That's the description of Action Girlfriend. My point was that the description for Hot Amazon is trying to be that trope.

Action Girlfriend seems to have plenty of problems of its own, since it seems to flip-flop between being a character and a genre.

As for Hot Amazon, it probably shouldn't be a character either. Bob is attracted to Alice because of how she kicks ass. Is the trope Alice or is the trope the attraction?

Guys Want Amazons, on the pattern of No Guy Wants an Amazon?

Or does that imply Amazonian Beauty?

edited 27th Mar '12 7:01:52 AM by TropeEater

How 'bout an opinion from a guy who's been gone a while?

I'd go with Guys Do Want Action Girls. The Do is to add emphasis to replace the usual No. If you wanted to go further, you could even call it Guys Do Too Want Action Girls.

Yes, I used Action Girls. I'm sorry, but using Amazon when we mean Action Girl is likely what is causing the problem here. We just can't keep that word. Yes, it breaks symmetry with No Guy Wants an Amazon, but it's better to break symmetry than to have 81% misuse. If we absolutely need symmetry, we can look into renaming No Guy Wants an Amazon to No Guy Wants An Action Girl. (If this isn't already redirect, it should be.)

And to address the threadstarter directly: We can only redefine a trope to fit its usage if the way it is used is actually a trope. "Action Girl or muscular girl that I find attractive" is not a trope. We can't redefine Hot Amazon to be something that is not a trope.

The name Hot Amazon is misused so much that it has to go.

EDIT: And that picture has to go, too. We can't use someone who is famous for being an Amazonian Beauty as long as people are misusing this trope.

edited 27th Mar '12 9:25:51 AM by BigT