The Constructive Criticism Thread

The long wait is by design. As stated in the rules on the (pinned) first post:

It's also good form to give feedback on other people's work. By my count, Jacksonk987 only has one critique so far out of the recommended five. You can add to that number by reading it yourself and giving your own 2¢. (I've found one of the best ways to improve my own writing is by reading others' work and figuring out where it can be improved.)

If you need immediate or time-sensitive feedback, this thread ain't it.

But don't worry— Your turn is up next. Give some feedback and give it a few days.

Edited by AwSamWeston on Jul 27th 2021 at 9:04:56 AM

Award-winning screenwriter. Directed some movies. Trying to earn a Creator page. I do feedback here.

I'll contribute a critique for ~@Tropers/jacksonk987:

I agree with Michael Katsuro's opinions on the prose of the story. It requires improvement to reduce the amount of redundancies and Narrating the Obvious. The story needs to slow down pace since a lot of events take place quickly without opportunity for the reader to process the story. Other than that, it's a serviceable fanfiction based on Pokémon Mystery Dungeon.

And for the Agumon (Digimon) reference, I'd suggest you explain the existence of the Digimon franchise as a popular book series.

Looks like my Shout-Out to This Bites! flew over another head.

Thousand Dreamers, Watashi wa Saikyo, and Believe slap so hard.

Probably not a great idea to use a Shout-Out that references another work.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Like I said, it's one thing to have a Shout-Out, it's another to have one that doesn't make sense in context and won't work unless the reader has read a fanfic that most people haven't even heard of.

Edited by MichaelKatsuro on Jul 31st 2021 at 12:22:30 PM

Is ~De Marquis ready with the critique? You've promised this on Jul 26th 2021 and this thread needs to move on.

I apologize. Real life distracted me. I don't have that much to add to what has already been said. I am not familiar with Pokemon, so I am probably not the best person to offer a critique, except to say that I found it a little hard to follow the story.

In sheer terms of narrative style, the opening is a little abrupt. Generally, it's best to open your story with a vivid description of the setting, followed by one or more characters doing something in the setting, and quickly moving on to what the characters are experiencing as they do whatever in the setting.

Here is your opening:

---

“Why, you naughty little miscreants! Now everyone will think I eat adorable little Toxel for lunch!”

In Leafdew Town, a Farfetch’d was chasing five kids: Axew, Growlithe, Vulpix, Machop and Torchic.

To make a long story short, Axew, who was a clever prankster, had Photoshopped a picture of Farfetch’d about to eat his lunch so that it would look like he was about to eat a Toxel.

---

The problem here is we the readers do not know enough to interpret this opening. Who is talking? Where are they? What does the scene look like? What is a "Farfetch'd"? What kind of kids? We can't visualize this, or relate to the characters, because we aren't given enough information. You should start with a description of Leafdew Town—what it looks like, what kind of creatures (people?) live there, some sights, some other sensory impressions, and then describe what the chase would look like to an observer there: "Around the corner came five young creatures pursued by.." or something along those lines. Describe their facial expressions: who looks frightened, excited, worried, etc., and finally the expression or actions of the creature doing the chasing, followed by his statement. That would make the whole scene much more engaging.

You seem to be using some form of third person omniscient. Let me warn you that this is a very difficult narrative style to write well. If you are a beginning author it is almost always better to use third person limited (where you pick a point of view character, and describe everything from their perspective).

One mistake that often appears with 3rd P.O. is a narrative style that is too casual and "flip", in a misguided attempt to be humorous or clever, this has a tendency to slide into "told not shown" territory. For example:

---

The other kids were Axew’s friends, and Now, back to our story. here they are:

Growlithe was naïve, but also a bit lacking in intelligence.

[etc.]

---

"Here they are" sounds like the narrator is breaking the fourth wall, speaking directly to the readers, which implies that the narrator knows they are narrating a story. This will have the effect of pulling many readers right out of the narrative, because it makes the readers conscious of themselves as reading a story, and most readers don't like that, they want to be immersed in the world, as if they were there.

So instead, the narrator should describe things each character does which illustrates their character trait, as in:

"Growlithe was naïve, the kind of person whom one could tell any sort of story and he would believe it, regardless of how fantastic is was..." or something like that. By describing hypothetical actions you allow the reader to visualize just how naive Growlithe is, rather than just telling us.

"Now, back to our story." Again, this pulls me right out of the narrative. You should never, ever, ever leave the story. Everything is story. If something you write (esp. in a short story) isn't part of the story, take it out. Every word, sentence, scene you write should be intended to contribute directly to the theme you are trying to create with the story.

---

“Axew, why did you think this was a good idea?” Vulpix scolded.

“Sorry, but it was too good of an opportunity to pass up!” Axew defended.

---

Again, the problem here is that I can't visualize this. Are they still running? Are they running down a city street? Are these two characters next to each other? Are they shouting at each other to be heard, or what is happening exactly?

---

"Vulpix ran to catch up with Axew. "Why did you think this was a good idea?” she scolded.

---

You see the difference?

I could go on, but the same basic stylistic advice would apply to every paragraph in this scene. I think you can figure out from here, if you decide to take my advice, how to incorporate it into your story.

You need to integrate better sensory descriptions of your scenes and characters. Stop telling the readers things directly and use description of hypothetical or other actions to illustrate the characters's traits, and focus on the character's emotional reactions to what is said or what is going on.

Edited by DeMarquis on Aug 1st 2021 at 11:38:49 AM

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

It's been a week since the last post. Is it time now to move on to the next work for critique?

I would say so, yes.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

Seems fair to me. Let's move on.

What am I looking at here? Live action or animated?

Edited by DeMarquis on Aug 12th 2021 at 11:49:31 AM

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

It's animated in my view.

Can you provide a logline?

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

Logline: An amnesiac pilot from another world is found by a junk trader and goes on a brief adventure.

Thanks.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

So, to start off with, a few words about script formatting. Your script opens with:

''INT. FLUIDIC SPACE SECTOR 21 – DAY

A wrecked cockpit of a cruiser, with the identifier Prodigious, drifts across a starfield. A large freighter with the identifier Argo appears. The freighter opens the pod bay doors and tows the cockpit into its cargo bay.''

Scripts are intended to help the potential producer, director or animator better understand what visuals would best express the ideas contained in the script. Everything you include should be directed toward that end—with nothing left out which would be important to know, and nothing included that doesn't contribute toward creating a better visual production. "INT. FLUIDIC SPACE SECTOR 21 – DAY" appears to violate this rule in several ways: If this scene takes place in space then it's an exterior shot, not an interior one, "Fluidic Space Sector 21" isn't a visual description—no one, without having read the entire script, could know what this means, so it needs to be reworded to be more obvious, like "A scene in space" or something along those lines. You can drop the "Day", in space day vs. night doesn't apply.

"A wrecked cockpit of a cruiser..." Even this, I think, will be confusing to a director or an animator. First off, describe the scene: "Stars shine against a black background, spaceship wreckage floats in mid screen" or something along those lines would be clearer and more descriptive. You should follow the setting up with a description of the action: "A larger spaceship floats into view, approaches the wreckage, opens it's bay doors..." etc. There are no characters or dialogue in this scene, so you can move on to the next scene.

Next:

''INT. FIRST-PERSON VIEW Orlando opens his blurry eyes against the bright light. He recalls something.''

This doesn't really work as animation directions. Where is this taking place? What does this interior scene look like? Unless this is intended to be a close up that focuses exclusively on Orlando's face, we can see at least part of the room, what's in it? Or are we looking at the light? I can't tell, and that's bad. The only action here is Orlando opening up his eyes. If we are looking at Orlando's face, then you need to describe it, or if we are seeing things from Orlando's POV, are we supposed to see an eye-shaped view gradually opening up, or what? You need a lot more description. Finally, it isn't clear to me how one would animate "He recalls something" visually. In a script you restrict yourself to things the audience will see or hear.

Obviously, your intention is that the next scene is the flashback. Stepping away from scriptwriting and moving on to fiction writing in general, I dont know if these scenes work as a flashback. In general, flashbacks are challenging to write well, and my general advice is to avoid them unless it's absolutely necessary to the plot. Here, I dont think that it is, since it would be far easier if you just started the opening scene with what you are using as a flashback. This would be easier for the audience to track, and would take nothing away from the plot. Notice that in your current opening scene you introduce no characters, provide no information that isn't also provided later, and do not establish anything about your setting that isn't obvious in the following scenes. I would just eliminate your opening scenes, and make the flashback your opening scene.

That would make this your opening scene:

''INT. THE PRODIGIOUS (COCKPIT) – FLASHBACK Orlando is piloting the Prodigious with a steering wheel. Anissa is sitting beside him as a co-pilot. There are sounds of blaster fire and explosions in the background.''

The advice I gave you for your original opening scene also applies here. The setting is now an interior, but you still have to describe it. What does the cockpit of the Prodigious look like? Focus on the overall aesthetic, the Director or Animator will add details as they think fit. Is this spaceship interior gritty and functional (ie, the "Star Wars" look), is it clean and comfortable (Star Trek), bright and retro (Buck Rodgers), or what?

The action must also be described in greater detail. All Orlando is doing is steering the ship, but how does he look while doing it? Tense, calm, excited, surprised or what? Since he ends up loosing his friends in an ambiguous way, I would go for tense and nervous, but it's up to you. Just let the animator know what "look" he should be going for.

Now for Orlando and Anissa the characters. What kind of people are they (later we find out that Orlando is 13, that should be made clear here. The feel of the whole scene changes based on the characters' ages). What are they wearing, what do their voices sound like, what kind of people are they and how does their appearance reflect that. I get the impression that Anissa is the more caring and emotional of the two of them, you can make that clear by giving her an earth-toned uniform, for example.

Of course, this implies that you have a clear idea in your head regarding what these two characters are "really like", that is, what kind of people they would be and how they would act if one met them in real life. If you don't, you might consider filling out one of the many character template sheets available on the internet. I think you will find that this will make it easier to write later scenes.

As for Orlando being 13—is there are reason he (and later, the second major character Tom) are so young? What are children that age doing in control of spaceships? This could work in the context of a story that itself is meant for children (because children of any age identify most with protagonists slightly older than they themselves are), but some sort of explanation should be included somewhere.

Here is your first dialogue:

''ORLANDO

Vivian! Lloyd! Can you hear me?!

ANISSA

Respond! I repeat, respond! Anissa glances at Orlando worryingly.

ANISSA

Are they okay…? I’m scared,

ORLANDO

Their vital signs are stable. They’re still alive.''

As a side note, you might want to consider inserting a quick cut-away just before the dialogue starts, to a scene showing the spaceship flying through space while something shoots at them. That helps establish the setting and the genre, while clarifying for the audience what is going on.

Anyway, the dialogue is ok. Anissa comes across as a little unprofessional given what's going on, but if she's only 13 like Orlando, that works.

I am going to conclude it here, because I do not what to overwhelm you with advice. In general, I would say that dialogue is your strongest story skills so far. If I were you I would concentrate on rewriting each scene exactly as I have outlined the first few: focus on visual description, and include description for both the scene's setting and the characters, then move on to the action.

I do think that there is some dialogue in later scenes where the grammar comes across as stilted, and I also think you could do a better job at giving Orlando and Tom "different voices", that is elements of speaking that better differentiate the kinds of people Tom and Orlando are, which again assumes that you have already worked out exactly what personalities Tom and Orlando have, and how they are different as people.

Ok, that's it for now. So far it's an interesting story and I would read more if there were more available. I wish you luck with it.

Edited by DeMarquis on Aug 13th 2021 at 4:42:46 AM

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

@De Marquis: Thanks for the critique. I'll be holding for further critique input for my script so that I'll try to improve based on your advice and recommendations. I'll see if Michael Katsuro and Aw Sam Weston can respond for a critique.

You're welcome : ) Let me know if you have any questions.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

Right, the first question is that what are the personalities of Orlando and Tom inferred from the actions in the script? I need to find a way to distinguish them by characterization so I can improve on my scriptwriting.

Second, what are scenes that require trimming to reduce its tediousness or repetitiveness? I know the main weakness I identified is that sometimes my writing can become a yawn-inducing slog.

Third, what is your advice for writing action scenes in a script, so that is exciting? As I read through the script, I noticed the writing for the action scenes are not quite exciting as I thought.

And finally, what do you feel about the story? Not in terms of critiquing the style of the script, but rather the feeling of the story, what kind of story it reminds you of?

"Right, the first question is that what are the personalities of Orlando and Tom inferred from the actions in the script? I need to find a way to distinguish them by characterization so I can improve on my scriptwriting."

That's entirely up to you. So far as I could tell, they were basically two clones of the same person—they had nearly identical speech patterns and pretty much reacted the same way to everything. What differences do you want there to be?

"Second, what are scenes that require trimming to reduce its tediousness or repetitiveness?"

Frankly, I didn't see any. I didn't mention it, but the pacing of the narrative was pretty good, considering that this is basically a type of action-adventure yarn. Of course, other people may have a different opinion.

"Third, what is your advice for writing action scenes in a script, so that is exciting?"

Well, that's more complicated than it would be for a straight narrative, because ths is a script. The words on the page by themselves are only supposed to act as guidelines for the Director/Animators, who are the one's ultimately responsible for making the scenes come alive. If you add too much detail, it could be seen as trying to be a stealth Director.

That said, high excitement comes from high stakes, and stakes are demonstrated by losses experienced by the protagonists. Orlando's friends have already disappeared, but it isn't clear that this was caused by the new big bad, the one in Tom's universe. There, confrontation between the protags and the antags come at two points: in the scene with the robo-cop, and the scene with the space ship chase. If you want to up the stakes, then you could always have one of the protags suffer a minor wound (not too graphic if this is aimed at a younger audience). Space chases are rather cliche, but one thing you can do is have the space fighters force the protags to undertake actions they otherwise don't want to take, like crash land on a planet, or flee into a dangerous area (still cliche, but realistically there is only so much you can do with a space chase).

"And finally, what do you feel about the story?"

Like I said, I got a strong "Tom Swift - Boy Inventor" vibe from it, which means that this comes across as a young boys' adventure tale. Nothing wrong with that (God knows Anime is full of that sort of thing) if it is well presented. More than that, it's a "Boy Buddy" story—which means that the emotional dynamics of the narrative are focused on the relationship between the two boys. Throw in some actual adolescent issues, and I think this story could have a lot of potential.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

I think I need to clarify that the reason I haven't commented is that I know nothing about how screenplays should be written. I wish I could help, but my advice would be worse than useless.

It looks like we are out of aspiring writers! Should I add one of my own? I, who have critiqued dozens of people in this thread, but who has never been critiqued? Hmm.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

I'm considering adding my new story's first-chapter draft, but we'll see.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I'm currently working on a parody of L. Ron Hubbard's "Mission Earth" series (aka, "the most socially offensive series of novels ever written." Anyone interested?

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

As a suggestion, you could parody these novels by Crossing the Line Twice to show how offensive they were. Thing is, most people don't know of these novels...