Del Toro's Pacific Rim

That's what I meant by "genuine Jaeger vs. Jaeger," as the whole incident with Scrapper implied that most Jaeger knock-offs were similar Mini Mechas and not the full-scale Kaiju fighting ones.

And yeah, the whole issue with Shao's apathy to Mako's death as a Red Herring falls into a similar problem as the Mandarin from Iron Man 3, in order to sustain the plot point the movie just doesn't gives us a whole lot with the character so that the Red Herring is easier to maintain. But that runs into another problem still, as when Shao remote pilots Scrapper in the climax it doesn't have any real impact because we don't spend that much time with the character.

I do agree about Mako's death, mostly because we also don't spend that much time with her. In fact, she doesn't do anything that isn't expressly plot related. She isn't given a real personality, other than "stern authority figure", she barely even interacts with Jake.

Regarding the Big Bad, I am okay with what happened with Newt because it's clear that it isn't a straight Face–Heel Turn but Brainwashed and Crazy and actually invokes And I Must Scream, making it actually rather tragic.

I believe the prequel novel to Uprising does explain the illegal Jaegers the PPDC had to deal with.

Did they mention how Shao industries managed to produce so many Jaegers when they costs billions of dollars each?

I imagine they were cheaper than normal because they're mass-produced. And the company does have a contract; it's not like they're paying for these things out of their own pocket.

Saw the movie recently.

While the first one has a good place in my heart, still the only movie I've been too that had me literally on the edge of my seat, the sequel was alright. I liked parts of the movie more than the movie overall but still .

Personally I'm on shaky ground as to if there should be another sequel. I can't remember off the top of my head a movie about a proactive invasion that our perspective is supposed to be positive about but Hollywood has talent if they want to risk it.

I find it humorous that the only defense people have of the cadets is compared to last movies pilots they lasted longer so people have the illusion of feeling "attached" to them despite not being any better than Alpha's & Typhoon's pilots.

Though seriously if we get another movie we really need stronger character writing for the rest of the Jaeger pilots. I am really tired of so much blatant fodder pilots & Jaegers, at least Striker Eureka was like a deuteragonist to Gypsy Danger's protagonist & she had an important role in the end so there was two main mechs you could say.

edited 7th Apr '18 3:25:01 PM by slimcoder

I got an impression that anything regarding the trainees was cut out besides the most superficial, and what we were left with was an additional 7 side characters with about as many lines between them. The only one I can even remember was Viktoria, the blonde Russian girl who actually gets into a fight with Amara because everyone else worked hard and trained for years to get this far. It might be a bit of a cliche, but I remember it because it was clear that she was an individual with an opinion.

In the first film, even though the pilots for Cherno Alpha and Crimson Typhoon weren't given much, if any, dialogue, there was certainly something distinctive about them. Even though they didn't get an especially long fight, you saw a lot of personality and creativity in how their Jaeger was designed, how they fight and even just their piloting suits (the Russians cyclops helmet are particularly cool). Del Toro does A LOT with imagery and body language, and doesn't rely on dialogue.

That's been a major topic I've been thinking about lately. Big blockbusters are dialogue-centric, what the characters are saying is more important than anything else. I think we all noticed how homogenized the Jaegers are in Uprising than they were in the first film, and the same thing has translated into how they move and fight. Gipsy Avenger vs. Obsidian Fury is practically a Mirror Match, all four Jaegers in the climax tend to move and fight the same way with only minor differences, it's more about the particular weaponry they are armed with. The same goes for the Kaiju, in the first film Otachi and Leatherback moved and fought in a unique way, their unusual abilities (Prehensile Tail, acid spitting, EMP pinch) were a part of the whole package. The four Kaiju fought in the climax (three plus mega kaiju) were functionally interchangeable in appearance and movement.

Point of contention: Striker Eureka was a 'she' like the rest of the Jaegers, and war machines in most universes.

Well, regarding the similar body types, Crimson Typhoon and Cherno Alpha had some exploitable flaws in their designs the Kaiju took advantage of, while Gipsy Dangerand Striker Eureka managed to hold up pretty well to the end, barring the EMP on the latter. I guess afterwards, humans decided to go with the body type that was the most effective.

This is primarily a discussion of artistic value, especially since we are talking about wildly impractical Humongous Mecha I don't really don't care about any In-Universe justifications. Even still we see glimpses of unique styles, Saber Athena was definitely one of the more agile with precision weapons while Bracer Phoenix was obviously meant to be more sluggish with raw power, but it just got lost in the noise of the fight. That's an indication of a lack of creative effort rather than Worldbuilding.

Ah right.

Yeah that's a similar argument I hear with justifying the Jaeger's faster movements as in the tech got more advanced but right artistically its just boring. Practically is a bad excuse if it just ends up making everything not as unique or creative as it once was.

Sure Striker moved pretty fast in the first one but she still had a majesty & focus to her movements.

Looks like some aspects of the film were not under deKnight's choice?

Rewatched the original film. It's not without its flaws but it is still refreshingly original and creative. One issue is that Charlie Hunnam is definitely struggling with an American accent, but Idris Elba slips up a few times himself. And while Ron Perlman is always a delight, the whole subplot with Hannibal Chau feels divorced from the main story rather than naturalistic Worldbuilding (the PPDC already have a lab filled with Kaiju brain samples, plus when Kaiju approach the city the whole "bartering with Hannibal" is dropped and he later helps Newt no problem).

Still much better than Uprising, though. The overall story of Uprising is solid, but it just refuses to build up the characters or even the Jaegers very much. It lacks the intensity of the first film in how it emphasized every action the Jaegers and Kaiju made. The fights don't really evolve, they start and end in the same place. Compare that to the centerpiece of the first film, which starts in the ocean, Leatherback is killed in the docks, then Otachi and Gipsy Danger duke it out in the city streets before being taken into the sky. The way the fight progresses in that way tells its own story, when an action sequence sticks with one location like that it becomes more about what other cool thing can the characters do.

I will say, though, that Newt being brainwashed by the Precursors makes perfect sense after revisiting the first film. I had forgotten how much of a "kaiju groupie" he was, including arm tattoos, and the whole experience of drifting with a Kaiju brain was already depicted as a mild Go Mad from the Revelation.

He's drifted with a kaiju brain more than once, so you had to expect it was going to be a problem sooner or later.

I wouldn't say Newt being interested in kaijus is relevant to the brainwashing, except maybe indirectly in making him more willing to drift with one. He's not some cultist, he's a fascinated scientist who did his best to aid the organization dedicated to killing the shit out of the subject of his fascination. Him turning evil because he was super into kaiju would be like an epidemologist suddenly unleashing plague because it's just so neat. Which is why I was relieved to see them leaning on the mind control angle instead.

^ I was talking more about thematic consistency ( Newt is a little off to start with, which is why he originally drifted with the Kaiju brain and indicates poor judgement, leading to eventually being brainwashed) rather than intuitive logic ( Newt is a "Kaiju groupie", therefore it makes sense he would betray everyone to them).

It's a plot development I wished they spent more time on, but due to being a blockbuster it had the bare minimum of foreshadowing and hurried along to the monster punching. One of the weaker elements of the film was Newt on the rooftop cheering against the Jaegers and cackling about his Mega Kaiju fallback plan.

So I read the supplementary chapters on the novelization of the movie.

Looks like Shao had Newt checked on to ensure he wouldn't cause any problems for the company. She got as far as noticing a high electricity bill for Newt's apartment room, him buying expensive wine, and mentioning an Alice as his girlfriend, but nothing that seemed suspicious.

Bunch of twitter posts from deKnight explaining stuff from the movie. Looks like executive meddling and budget concerns affected this movie as we thought.

https://twitter.com/stevendeknight/status/991408738849308672

Of deleted scenes: https://twitter.com/stevendeknight/status/991421617992486917

Wanting a bit more runtime: https://twitter.com/stevendeknight/status/992084521787932672

Liwen was originally going to be involved in that trailer scene of Nate shooting at Rippers: https://twitter.com/stevendeknight/status/991443372874215424

On the status of Newt: https://twitter.com/stevendeknight/status/991339241761198080 https://twitter.com/stevendeknight/status/992085074781732869

On the Kaiju Mt. Fuji being an alternate plan cooked up after human intervention: https://twitter.com/stevendeknight/status/992087698104975360

Raleigh, dead or not: https://twitter.com/stevendeknight/status/992132803964813312

Draft with Herc as Marshal: https://twitter.com/stevendeknight/status/992137177038401537

And of course, ship tease: https://twitter.com/stevendeknight/status/992086038108561408

That thing about Mt. Fuji shows without a shadow of a doubt to me that the people working on this movie just didn't care.

The broken logic of the retcon is immediately apparent to anyone even vaguely familiar with the first movie.

And no matter what DeKnight says on twitter, it is explicitly presented in the movie as the Precursor plan all along. Otherwise you wouldn't even bring up the previous attacks.

The stuff about Mako also doesn't inspire much trust. She was always going to be fridged in his plans.

Herc dodged a bullet when he was written out. The Hansen get no respect.

Looking over tumblr, it seems the only thing people care about anymore is Newmann shipping. Barely any talk of Jake or Amara or the cadets. No lore discussions, no coming up with new Jaegers...

The fandom is just as much a shell of it's former self as the movie.

And the balant pandering to the shippers in DeKnight's tweets is evident.

edited 6th May '18 10:31:52 AM by MrSeyker

Seems like people care more for the characters in the first film rather than the sequel.

Gee what a shocker.

The Mako stuff in the thread is...bizarre. Part of it indicates he always planned to fridge Mako, but actually give more weight to her death, but part of it indicates she was supposed to live and be at the forefront of the third movie, but that idea got shoved away for no clear reason? The overall justifications seem to be "didn't have enough time/money", but that doesn't explain such a massive (and incredibly poorly thought-out, seriously, who the hell was it who thought that Mako not dying would go over worse than her getting fridged?!) overhaul of the initial plan.

I'd be excited about the Newmann hints, but considering how thoroughly Uprising threw out all the aesthetics and underlying themes of the first movie (and considering how "maybe a character is gay, but we're not going to address it in the film, just give some winks and nudges to the fans in interviews" happens time and time again), I can't really bring myself to care in a positive way.

By all accounts it seemed like the franchise was lucky to get a second movie, but was heavily overridden by Chinese demands and efforts to be more mainstream, which really harmed the appeal it had in the first place as a original story, director-driven movie. It alienated the current fans in favor of trying to make it generic and appeal to a broader audience.

Which ended up horribly backfiring as Uprising made less than the original.

If they make a third one then its gonna be an even worse bomb if they pull the same shit again.

x3 There was some speculation given the Chinese backing that Mako would be fridged in order to give more screen time to the new Chinese actress or something (one can't help but think the Scrapper scene at the end of the movie could have had Mako piloting it). Probably doesn't help with current Chinese-Japanese relations.