DEATH BATTLE

Well she does get her ass kicked a lot throughout all the stories.

well, yeah, because she's stuck with a master who is both a horribly inexperienced mage and summoned her incorrectly.

and she still puts up a fight even against everyone in F/SN, including a properly summoned Heracles and incarnated Gil who are both treated as some of the strongest servants in the entire type-moon universe.

Dang with MK having come up again now I'm just kinda hopeful we'll see other weirder nonsense fighting games again. I want them to go more indepth to Guilty Gear's bullshit with the Valentines and how calculating the stuff in it leads to absolute nonsense. But I really doubt that we will unfortunately.

Wait... what brought up Saber vs. Polnareff?

Double-wait. I'd have thought that Polnareff definitely had speed over Saber?

And Saber's Sword of Mass Destruction had a charge time to it?

If nothing else with Silver Chariot being so fast I'd have though Polnareff had a chance - and both characters are Nigh-Invulnerable in one way or another. If Saber can just activate it and take people out with the blast radius - I mean that's a doubel KO?

Polnareff absolutely has the speed advantage. But somehow I doubt Silver Chariot would be able to harm Saber much. This is when she's near her peak, to the point that Shirou firmly believes that she's more than capable of taking on Berserker (aka Heracles) whose blows can crush mountains. The only vulnerable parts would be her head and face, and even then she normally protects this with a layer of mana from her Mana Burst.

As for charge time, the anime is actually incredibly misleading. Excalibur's potency is matched by its incredibly short activation speed, to the point that she was able to get it off even though Rider's chariot broke the sound barrier and was just about to trample her.

Edited by reppuzan on Feb 9th 2020 at 1:21:47 PM

Yeah Saber's taken down speedsters before. Hell, she's taken down just about anything and everything that has had each individual advantage on her. Often with one metaphorical hand tied behind her back.

It says a lot that she's considered one of if not the most powerful swordsman in history in a franchise that contains people like Musashi and Hassan, who are so good at swinging swords they can kill concepts.

Why are we spoiler tagging a hypothetical? Tge next fight is Leonardo vs Red Ranger.

That said, Polnareff doesn't have to out power Saber to win. He has to kill Shirou.

You know, I hope Maple from Bofuri I Dont Want To Get Hurt So Ill Max Out My Defense is in one of these someday. She has a Very Unique Skill Set for a protagonist.

How many fights did Saber actually win? I can't seem to recall her having much of a win streak in Zero, FSN, or UBW.

"Shirou believes she can do it in a throwaway line or statement with no further elaboration?"

or "Shirou knows she can do it and we have solid evidence from the text or anime to back up his assessment?"

Did she actually beat Berserker? Because I recall him being That One Boss in UBW who was defeated by Gilgamesh in the end.

The biggest weakness to Polnareff would be his everything - but then Silver Chariot is effectively invulnerable because STANDOH POWAH, guards Polnareff best at close range, and is definitely fast enough to react to and deflect Saber's attacks.

Plus it can match Star Platinum and even overtake it in close combat.

In terms of the Holy Grail War sure. But, assuming Shirou was included, I didn't know killing Shirou would instantly cut off Saber's powers. I mean... I figured there was like a buffer.

If Saber kills Polnareff than Chariot simply dies with him. If Chariot killed Shirou the same happens, or does Saber just vanish back to Camelot or someting?

Edited by Soble on Feb 9th 2020 at 11:57:58 AM

Saber has to have a supply of management in order to stay manifested. Shirou is terrible at doing this because he's bad at magic and he has a legendary artifact inside him that also needs to be powered. Cut off the supply and she cant stick around.

If we're not talking in the context of the Holy Grail War, she wouldn't be Saber.

The Master who Saber is most compatible with is Rin Tohsaka, with whom she can unleash the full extent of her power. Unfortunately, she doesn't get a chance to show off the full extent of her power before the end of the Unlimited Blade Works route. That said, IIRC it's the stats that she gets from Rin that she has in the other entries like Fate/Extella and Fate/Grand Order.

Kiritsugu Emiya actually gave her greater Endurance and Agility stats, though her Strength wasn't as high as it should be.

She's greatly weakened with Shiro due to him being so mediocre, but the Unlimited Blade Works anime gives her a much better showing against Berserker than she had in the original visual novel.

As for Saber Alter... she's an outlier since she only takes that form after being blackened by Aŋra Mainiiu.

Quantifying a Servant's stats is difficult, since the visual novels, the Fate/Zero light novel, interviews with Nasu and the other Type-Moon personnel, and various databooks establish that even the weakest of Servants is exponentially stronger and faster than the strongest unaugmented human.

Edited by Arawn999 on Feb 10th 2020 at 1:37:00 AM

They sure do say that. In practice, it's hard to believe. Shire "terrible at everything" Emiya had a damned good showing against Archer and Gil, after all.

Mind you Archer threw the fight after a battle of ideologies and Gilgamesh suffers from being a one trick pony.

Death, taxes, this thread talking about Fate

Shirou was uniquely suited to countering Gilgamesh's bread-and-butter moveset, and was siphoning a lot of power from Rin and being healed by Avalon to boot. Against any other Servant, he wouldn't have stood a chance.

And we do occasionally get hints that support that. The brief skirmish between Artoria, Diarmuid, Iskander, Gilgamesh, and Lancelot leaves the warehouse district looking like a warzone. Artoria vaporizes an aspect of Cthulhu, later does the same to Aŋra Mainiiu in Unlimited Blade Works, and Extella and Grand Order reveal that she's not even using Excalibur to its full potential. True Assassin and Cú Chulainn casually outpace cars on a highway. Hercules creates a sonic boom when he charges at Artoria. Saber Alter vaporizes Illya's castle with a few Vortigerns and an Excalibur Morgan.

However, for the most part the Servants have to hold back so as to not alert the outside world to the existence of the Mage community.

Edited by Arawn999 on Feb 10th 2020 at 6:34:38 AM

Servant stats begin at E - which is considered ten times as much as an ordinary man - and only go up. By that estimation a Servant with a Strength B would be forty times as strong as an ordinary man. About the only times when a human - even a peak human Magus - can match a Servant is through surprise (Kuzuki v. Saber, Rin v. Caster), trickery (Kotomine v. True Assassin) or being rigged out beyond compare (Shirou manages so well against Gil exactly because UBW gives him the kind of advantage for - and Gil would still beat him black and blue if he actually took the fight seriously from the start)

The line's gotten blurrier come FGO, but the human side of the conflict still has to have things rigged in their favor (Atlantis Lostbelt spoilers): Wodime's specialization in Magecraft is utterly useless in the Mortal Age, but in the greenhouse Age of Gods that he made in the Lostbelt, Animusphere Magecraft elevates him to a demigod.

Long story short, while I believe Polnareff would be able to keep up speed-wise, Saber needs to clip him once and the fight is over - and she can take hits much better than he can.

And considering the original visual novel describes Berserker moving faster than the human eye can track, the Fate/Zero light novel states that even Artoria's suped-up V-Max is slower than a Servant's top speed, and Hercules casually lobs massive chunks of Illya's castle at Saber Alter and jumps dozens of feet into the air, I'd say the increase provided by each rank up is meant to be exponential rather than linear, since those feats don't make sense for being a mere 40 or 50 times stronger than a normal human.

Silver Chariot is capable of moving fast enough to leave after-images (and even caught up to light-speed opponents), can strike with enough speed to keep up with Star Platinum's punches, is precise enough to skewer multiple coins and fireballs with a single thrust of its sword, and its armour apparently makes it completely invincible at the cost of its speed.

Silver Chariot may surpass Artoria in terms of speed, but Artoria is a skilled enough swordswoman to casually defeat Taiga (an undefeated kendo master) without even taking up a combat stance, and also has what amounts to a Spider-Sense through her high level of Instinct — which lets her detect oncoming attacks (to the point of being able to avoid an unavoidable attack) and sense the best course of action in combat.

Silver Chariot is also vulnerable in that — according to the JJBA wiki — Polnareff can't see through its eyes and vice versa, so anything that can catch him off-guard will catch it off-guard too. It's also exclusively a close-range Stand (barring throwing its sword at its opponent), so if Artoria were to hit it with an Excalibur from outside its range of attack... Polnareff may stand a better chance using Chariot Requiem instead, assuming he can do so.

Edited by Arawn999 on Feb 10th 2020 at 7:36:21 AM

...I'm out. -tosses stack of papers above head-

-Jojo isn't any better but the stats are simpler to examine due to not being a visual novel-

I don't think he can. The arrow isn't something he typically has, and even if it were Requiem isn't something he directly controlled.

Edited by Soble on Feb 10th 2020 at 7:50:53 AM

I wonder if enough numbers exist around to make a case for Touhou’s Youmu

She can apparently move 2-3000 kilometers in a “flash”, which she uses to trim the length of a huge garden all in one go

Her swords were specifically forged to be super effective against spiritual beings, like ghosts. And can cut magic. And confusion.

Most of her outlandish abilities come from being just really good at swords. The other half come from being half ghost

But i don’t know that there’s enough there to build a case. Touhou is not the sort of property that provides a lot of concrete data

I know Touhou’s Flandre is a decently popular request for Beerus, who we know is showing up this season.

Probably because they both have instant death moves

I don’t know that much of a case can be built for Flandre. Even more than other Touhou she has very little concrete on paper

Other Touhou characters get out and do stuff. Flandre sits in a basement and thinks of Agatha Christie references.

Edited by Bocaj on Feb 10th 2020 at 12:32:42 PM

Dinah looks like Lili Reinhart in that thumbnail.

Edited by windleopard on Feb 10th 2020 at 10:30:18 AM

The past couple pages made me think Polnareff vs Saber was actually going to be the next fight,

Cool to see Leonardo in a fight again. He hasn't appeared in a Death Battle since Season 1 IIRC.

Edited by Awesomekid42 on Jun 6th 2020 at 1:18:20 PM

I think he was originally supposed to fight a Power Ranger instead of Zitz, so that’s neat.