The General US Politics Thread

At this point, they're really going to just have to take those records by force.

What they have to do is to put the Fear of Congress in Trump's cronies. Once people start actually going to jail for defying congressional subpoenas, we'll see a return to 2017 levels of "I ain't breaking the law for you, get real!"

William Barr, Don McGahn, Steve Mnuchin, these people have no reluctance to violate a subpoena because so far as they've seen, there's no consequence for it. Once arrests start being made, others will be less willing to follow after them.

But that's never going to happen if the House keeps sitting there and taking it, making some token noise to reporters about how very cross they are. Opinions are like assholes: they have never once constituted a meaningful legislative action. I don't care what you say, I care what you do.

That goes for Republicans whining about how mad they are at Trump and that goes for House Democrats whining about how very mad they are at Trump's cronies. Shit or get off the pot.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 21st 2019 at 8:50:34 AM

We need action, not hand wringing. Even worse, this is going to make Bernie Sanders look right that "The Establishment can't get anything done!1!" if they refuse to do their jobs and enforce the law just because the reds happen to be in power at the time.

If they ever do make a move, I'll be preparing for several "Have Democrats Acted Too Fast?" headlines from several self-proclaimed left-wing publications.

Hell, for the same reason, I'll even be preparing for the cries of "too little, too late".

Yeah I want Dems to act but I’m also very aware that if they do we could easily see headlines from CNN, the NYT and such going “Democrats escalate clashes with trump by ordering AG arrested”, “Have Democrats gone to far in trying to topple Trump?”, “Capital uneasy as Democrats risk armed conflict in attempt to see Trump’s taxes”, “Does the new Democrat escalation against Trump being us closer to a constitutional crisis?”, ect...

And once that happens, there's little question who the general public will side with.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on May 21st 2019 at 1:22:38 PM

Sure, at first. The headlines will be sensational and bombastic for a couple of weeks. But as soon as the news cycle turns from "What Democrats did" to "What Democrats found", nobody will care anymore.

It's early 2019. We have the better part of a year before the election cycle begins in earnest. By this time next year, nobody will remember who William Barr is or why we ever cared about him. Right now is the time when you do the unpopular shit that will pay back dividends down the road.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 21st 2019 at 11:33:58 AM

So here's yet another "the cruelty is the point" statement, courtesy of Ben Carson when speaking about evicting immigrants from public housing.

Because it's not like immigrants (and these are even lawful immigrants, by the by!) pay taxes at all, amirite?

Edited by ironballs16 on May 21st 2019 at 3:40:16 PM

Honestly, I want more Republicans to just admit that they're purposely fucking over immigrants for its own sake. Because, really, what can hurt them, at this point?

It's not for it's own sake, it's for "our" sake.

For a lot of the county, that is A-OK.

Us > Them

Edited by Eschaton on May 21st 2019 at 1:54:28 AM

At some point, though, you're just doing shit you don't have to because it'll make the other suffer.

Only thing that can hurt them at this point is them trying to do anything remotely good

Trying ain't succeeding.

I will never get over the rabid anti-immigrant sentiments that come from the mouths of people who were all descended from immigrants who arrived Stateside as recently as three generations ago, possibly even sooner. They never seen all those old photographs of 'Irish need not apply' signs? :V

Edited by PresidentStalkeyes on May 21st 2019 at 11:47:35 AM

Those immigrants were white, though, so that doesn't count.

There also seems to be some widespread interpretation that all of those immigrants were all completely willing to give up their own cultures and languages, and start speaking English and be entirely "American" as soon as they got off the boat.

Not based in reality, but that's xenophobia for you.

Also they'd be like "but that was hundreds and hundreds of years ago,so it doesn't count!"

A lot of them use the "settler not immigrant" dog whistle, as if the former didn't depend on substantial government assistance.

I think Stephen Colbert summed it up pretty well on The Daily Show, as seen under the Misery Poker entry (context: he'd described his father's job as a literal turd miner, and his grandfather's job as a goat-ball licker).

Jon: ...How is that a job?
Stephen: You have to understand, Jon, in the old country the most important thing was to keep the goats happy. Now, as it turns out, the easiest way to do that... [makes a helpful illustrative gesture] ...was to work the balls.
Jon: You know, I had never realized that about your family.
Stephen: It's true, Jon. It's all true. [speaking to the camera] That's why I believe in the promise of America — that I, the son of a turd miner, the grandson of a goat-ball licker, could one day leave those worthless hicks behind while still using their story to enhance my own credibility!

Having grown up in a conservative home, I understand the anti-immigrant sentiment. It makes sense from their end, y'see.

The way my family saw it: we're all descended from immigrants, but those immigrants committed a genocide when they got here. They brought guns, plague, and conquest to the native peoples of this land. And now there are new immigrants wanting to come here, and white people are going "Ahh, nice try! I know that trick! Take your barbarian murder hordes somewhere else, our ports don't want any!"

Conservatives see the world through the Us vs. Them mentality. They're big on Social Darwinism, believing in wholly tribal politics. To them, our tribe won this last by outcompeting the Native Americans, and now new tribes are encroaching on our hard-won land to try and do the same to us.

When trying to understand Republican behavior, you always need to remember that they firmly believe everyone is out to screw everyone else, and that the "winner" is whoever screws the other harder.

That figures, though I'm surprised they even acknowledged that they genocided the Native population, instead of saying that they (the Natives) just agreed to give up all their land because they (the Anglos) served some neat turkey once. Or, hell, just flat-out denying they existed in the first place. :V

Edited by PresidentStalkeyes on May 21st 2019 at 1:47:25 PM

They might acknowledged it but not tell you that they do. It's like when anti-semites try to deny the Holocaust happened.

Edited by Draghinazzo on May 21st 2019 at 8:52:28 AM

@Tobias the following video from Innuendo Studios seems related to the points you brought up.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on May 21st 2019 at 6:04:43 AM

So basically, because white people killed all the natives when they immigrated, they think that (non-white) immigrants today will do the same.

In other words, more projection. (Selective projection but still)

That projection is at the root of why some people think that equal rights for women, queer folk, and PoC will lead to oppression towards priveleged groups because that's how some members of these privileged groups would do it. The lack of imagination is astounding.

It's a zero-sum game worldview, basically.