Character Development Thread--Discussion

Well, it's clear that there has been a lack of interest lately.

We might have to confront the fact that CD Ts may simply be reaching the end of their life cycle, something that happens in many roleplays. Of course, that doesn't always mean the end of the world for that RP. I have myself witnessed an RP that appeared to be dying just to be revived and explode in activity.

This is just some small observations I've had:

• It's the same two threads all the time

Casual, and non-casual. Vanilla or chocolate. Red pill or blue pill. The settings may change but the fundamentals are always the same.

The setting thread idea probably would have worked really well, the only real problem was that there was no fail-safe if Something Horrible Or Otherwise Unspeakable happened to the OP/GM, not to mention that only they could benefit from testing their own setting.

• No newcomers

We don't get a lot of newcomers, and those who do come tend to not stick around.

This problem may stem from the fact that the CD Ts are in an awkward position: We are a writing exercise, but on a roleplay format, which may not appeal to the writers who go here for writing help. We also don't appeal to the roleplaying crowd because of the fact that our operations are located in Writer's Block. We don't appeal to enough people.

• Nothing to do

Drawing from experience in another IRC roleplay, you can only talk and mingle with other characters so much before either you run out of things to say, or you get bored because there isn't anything else to do with other people's characters except talk.

Of course, immersive plots also have problems, notably the power posturing and their nature of being alienating to those who aren't involved. However, I think there can be a way to moderate this.

• People are busy

This is pretty straight-forward and doesn't really have a solution that's achievable besides get more people involved in these threads.

So, with this in mind, what do you guys think? I myself have a few ideas and.solutions, but I want to hear your opinions first.

"Life is eternal; and love is immortal; and death is only a horizon; and a horizon is nothing save the limit of our sight." - R. W. Raymond

I've been thinking about posting something similar. It seems like there's been a real loss of energy for a while, and it's time we all metaphorically sat down and had a conversation about it.

As I've said many times before, my perspective has always been that the CDTs' main purpose is overwhelmingly to serve as a way of getting familiar with writing a character (thus my long lack of posting is a direct result of being completely stalled on my real story). And coming from that perspective, I can see one obvious thing that isn't necessarily a problem but does seem rather odd: there isn't a lot of character turnover. Ideally the end result of using a character in the CDTs would be to get a clear enough grasp on them that they "graduate"; this is more or less what happened with my old character Qrlil.

So while I don't think that the threads as a whole have a limited lifespan, I wonder if part of this apparent feeling of stagnation comes from sending characters in to be developed that don't really need it anymore. Not being able to see into your minds as you write, I have no idea whether this is actually true, but as an observer it feels like a possibility.

I also think this relates a lot to the points you're making, Tehpillowstar: many of them are only really problems if you approach this more as a RP group then as a character-building exercise. For instance, yes, the casual and non-casual threads are more or less reskins of each other, but it's not as if you should be bringing the same thing over and over to them. If using Bob Protagonist in casual threads has come to seem repetitive, then you probably don't need to use him in them anymore.

I also should probably point out that the people who keep trying to prod the threads along, like Ryuhza, clearly don't feel any sense of stagnation, so it's not a universal thing.

edited 4th Apr '14 5:24:19 AM by nrjxll

Shutting the CDTs down completely seems too excessive. Besides, how would that work? Short of telling the mods not to allow people to make them here anymore, it's not like we can stop people like Ryuzha, m8e, Sonzai, Masterofchaos, or Yomegami from carrying on while some of us move on.

And I've wondered if I might move on sometime, since my writing issues lie in long-term plotting and plot has never really been the CDTs' strong suit by their very nature. I've only been using Vince repeatedly because his character type and influence in-story can be easily misused in a variety of ways. However, he too has a story to tell, a story whose plot suffers from the same issue I mentioned.

That being said, that doesn't mean I'm definitely, completely, totally done with this place. I wouldn't mind seeing some ideas.

edited 17th Apr '14 3:37:36 PM by CrystalGlacia

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."

I'm actually considering the same possibility. With a few exceptions I include because their extreme personalities generate interesting situations for others to work with (i.e. Alice and Aseyu), I've taken working on characters I've written little to nothing about (i.e. Koyel and his family).

Uhr... hrmm... I'd like to add to the discussion, but I'm not exactly sure what I can say. I feel like I've been getting a lot out of the CD Ts, even with characters like Joseph who I've brought in for a third time now, despite having a fairly good grip on writing his voice and whatnot. What's more, I get a lot of satisfaction from writing here, since I have difficulty writing purely out of my own volition. Honestly, it's one of my favorite things to do, and a bit of a goldmine for spurring new ideas that flutter out of situations and character responses that I probably wouldn't have considered just working by myself, but that end up resonating well with me.

I have recognized some of the issues that Tehpillowstar brings up, but I don't think that they're inherent problems with the threads as they exist right now. I tried a little harder with Archipelago to generate smaller plots, or at least situations beyond the meet-n-greet-n-small-talk-n-fizzle-out that's been typical of the CD Ts, without delving too far into some epic super plotline. I think I could have done it a little better, or given it a little more forethought, but most of the time I'm just influencing these motions, not rigidly enacting them. I do this partially 'cause I don't really enjoy retreading the same ground, and partially because I think it can provide useful scenarios to explore different angles of a character that aren't examined in a purely casual environment.

That said, I have no clue what to do to attract more newcomers. I don't even quite remember how I found my own way here. Oh, and I do tend to have a lot of free time.

this place needs me here

It's kind of sad that a discussion about why the threads aren't having much activity is having so little activity.

The thing that I'm seeing people dance around here is that the CDTs typically don't indulge in conflict or soap-opera antics.

...those are the only places left to go after a point. At some point, drama has to happen, and people are not very eager to get to writing drama with a few exceptions.

edited 5th Apr '14 7:07:51 PM by Night

Nous restons ici.

But we did have drama in the past, right? Like with City and (to some degree) University? I'm not sure about the other threads since I wasn't there for them, though.

Yes. But note that in the recent past, the casual threads have been the ones to rapidly fizzle.

Nous restons ici.

I think I've mentioned "drama" before, though as I recall, the counter-argument was that things got a bit too RP-like.

If "a bunch of strangers walk into a room and acknowledge each other" isn't working anymore, we should try something different. Like, maybe give them some kind of unifying, overarching objective? That, at least, would be a more compelling reason for conversationally-averse characters to get to know each other. And if it's drama we're after, then we'll need stress.

For example: if everyone in Dig Site had been in one group, then trapped in the temple and pursued by... Whatever... That more-or-less fulfills the requirements. Everyone had to work together to pursue a common goal and they're more prone to dramatic outbursts due to the chase. This is just an oversimplified example, obviously, but I trust you get the idea.

If we're not going to impose power-limits, though, this model falls apart. Some spooky monster might be a threat for mercs and mid-level mages, but if you're obliterating buildings all by yourself, there's not much that phases you...

Not entirely dead.

I'd like to add something to the conversation, but unfortunately I really can't think of anything to say that hasn't already been said.

However, it does make me wonder if I should continue working on the new thread. I admittedly haven't been working on it at all, mostly due to distractions (the latest being Goat Simulator) but partially because there doesn't seem to be a lot of enthusiasm for it. What I'm taking away from this is that a new thread isn't really what we need right now.

Icon by Civvi the Civilian!

Heh, I actually had introduction posts ready and everything! But I see your point.

I am personally fascinated by conversations, interaction, the surprising depth and texture found in the "unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds" everyone has. Which is why I've done so well in the CDTs as it stands now — mere conversations, people sitting around chatting, can provide for me as good a way to explore those worlds as anything else. But I get that's not for everyone, and I'm not going to pretend my way of thinking about writing is better; indeed, leads to a lot of chunks I end up having to cut out as fun for me but dull for those who haven't yet been made to care about my cast. So I can see how some rethinking may be called for.

edited 5th Apr '14 7:55:05 PM by KillerClowns

Don't have much to say beyond that I agree with Blackfire. Though, I am aware of people who would be vehemently opposed to things like that.

Note to self: Pick less edgy username next time.

The problem with this line of thought is that it's essentially tangential to the point of the threads (as I see it). While it's fun watching characters from very different settings bump heads, you can do that in any old RP. If this is primarily a character-building exercise, then not only should it not matter if conflict doesn't arise naturally^note I do think it's possible that people are avoiding conflict when it should be arising, but it really shouldn't even matter if individual threads stall out as long as the CDTs as a whole keep going and maintain active writer involvement.

I have some other problems as well, but I don't really think they matter as much.

Edit:

I think a new thread is actually exactly what we need once we finish hashing this out, as it's a lot easier to get people excited about. But first the underlying issues need to be addressed.

edited 5th Apr '14 8:22:19 PM by nrjxll

Completely unrelated:

Killer Clowns, with Aseyu's foot injury, are we declaring that the islands protection from harm doesn't extend to accidental injury, or is something else up?

this place needs me here

I honestly was just thinking about how silly it was of Aseyu to be walking out in the dark and wild without shoes. (She's from Uel, so she should know better!) It occurred to me that it'd be fitting for her to nick her foot on a rock as a result just so she could take a few moments to consider how little she's thought this plan through. Didn't really consider the island's protections at all.

Not to veer from the main line of discussion at the moment, but how likely is it that Aseyu and Joseph will wind up at the library at some point? I'm seriously itching to get that plot going.

No harm if it's not what you had in mind, though. I brought Selena into the thread primarily so I had someone with a good reason to go out and look for stuff.

Icon by Civvi the Civilian!

Hum... hum hum hum...

I guess that's fine with me if it's fine with everyone else. I was running with the no harm -period- idea before, but small accidents and whatnot don't really change much, and no harm -period- seems like maybe a little much.

Not sure myself. I've mostly been letting KC take the reigns on what they're doing, since it suits Joseph's nature.

this place needs me here

That was actually part of my plan.

That does have a fair point, but (as I see it) there's a missed opportunity from trying the same old method of only a single casual and a single serious thread at once. Maybe there needs to be an RP style CDT, maybe without all the bells and whistles of a typical RP, but the basic idea of a common goal and some impartial individual to keep hell from breaking loose.

That is only an opinion however.

Note to self: Pick less edgy username next time.

That, of course, raises the age-old question of what happens if that GM-like person, whoever it is, becomes unexpectedly busy.

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."

But that shouldn't be as hard to solve as the setting thread though. Someone else could be appointed to do it while the original GM is away. The original GM could PM the new GM about what his ideas were with the thread and the new GM could work the rest out.

If I knew how I know everything I know, I'd only be able to know half as much because my brain would be clogged up with where I know it from

Even more then the setting thread, though, I fail to see what additional benefits it's supposed to bring. It requires certain restrictions on the characters that can be used and alienates some people (well, me, at least) from participating, without doing anything for character-building.

On a side note: I've been wondering a little about whether it might actually benefit the threads to rename them to "Character Building Threads", so as to make it more obvious that they're not about Character Development.

edited 5th Apr '14 10:03:29 PM by nrjxll

I for one have always been bringing in new characters, so that only a couple of my characters have really ever appeared more than once. I have noticed a slowdown for sure, but I don't think that I'm feeling the stagnation personally. The only reason I haven't been participating much is that I've been super busy. I think it's going to lighten up a bit here, though.

I think the most room for improvement in the CDTs would be to encourage more newcomers to join, and to have more structured plots (like those on Archipelago) for those who want to participate in them. (But make sure there's still casual areas for those who don't.)

I wouldn't mind some more conflict and structured RP-like sub-plots, as that meshes relatively well with my writing and characters. There are plenty of my characters who cannot be developed in the CDTs due to a lack of motivation or conflict, as this is such a large part of who they are. Of course, there are some that would never work outside of a Setting thread, but there are still quite a few in the middle that would be amenable to minor or temporary plot/conflict.

To reiterate: the benefit of more RP-like plots/conflict is that certain characters can only be developed well in such situations, and do not work in a generic thread.

That being said, I still think the best way to attract newcomers is a new thread, as everyone likes starting at the beginning, and jumping in the middle can be difficult. (Or at least seem hard, and many want to read all the previous pages even if they don't have to.)

Also, I won't be able to participate frequently in this discussion because I'm still quite busy.

Danger: Intense gravimetric distortions nearby. Please reverse the polarity on your deflectors now.

But "more conflict" does not equal "structured plot with a GM".

Also, now that you mention it, I think a more important issue then just attracting newcomers is making sure they stick around. I've seen several new threads with flash-in-the-pan posters who show up in the beginning and then disappear.

Part of the solution may be helping them get involved in this thread, as the ones who disappear usually don't.

edited 5th Apr '14 10:10:37 PM by nrjxll