Needs Intervention: : Bishonen

This is my first Repair Shop submission, please let me know if it's majorly deficient somehow. To get underway, here's a description of the trope in question. Bishōnen is a character type common in anime - it refers to a male character with an androgynous appearance. There are some other semi-required traits too, but precisely what they are is sorta fuzzy. Thus, the trope needs a rewrite. Or a YMMV header. Or maybe a split.

Currently you'll find a lot of questionable use in the examples. Many of the characters (or IRL people) listed represent "hot guy woo-hoo"-type audience reactions...and according to the trope description, that's fine. It says "the term 'bishonen' simply connotes 'a really really attractive male'" right at the top, so the sky's the limit!

This trope COULD be made into something reasonably objective, because Bishōnen has a strict definition that includes an age range. But should that definition take precedence? Apparently, the "hot guy woo-hoo" definition is more common among English speakers. Maybe differing definitions lead to different tropes...?

Doesn't it just mean "pretty boy"?

You know, the Leo D'Caprio's of the world.

While someone like Rhett Butler would not be "bishe" because he's too masculine.

It's sort of like calling a boy beautiful instead of calling him handsome.

EDIT: Looking at the page it doesn't look too bad. Most of the examples seem to be recognizing that it requires that more feminine beauty thing instead of the more masculine handsomeness. I did see a few examples that seemed to be just "hot guy" which is wrong. I just scanned them, so maybe I missed the correct count, but it seemed that perhaps some minor clean up is needed.

The description could use some tightening, but it doesn't seem too bad.

My first impression is that this trope needs some minor repair and maintenance, not any major surgery. I would surely object to placing an age limit. That is included in the trope description to point out that technically "bishe" applies to the older version, but that bishonen and bishe are commonly used interchangeably.

edited 29th Mar '11 11:39:06 PM by Sackett

I always assumed it was more or less a synonym for "pretty boy."

They lost me. Forgot me. Made you from parts of me. If you're the One, my father's son, what am I supposed to be?

It is "Pretty Boy" a Guy that has features that would be considered Pretty, anything manly or normal is not this.

Compare Legolas vs Aragorn and Boromir in Lord Of The Rings

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

It is pretty much just "pretty boy". Specifically a not much 'manly' kind of 'pretty'. As Raso described, Legolas vs Aragorn (if it got a beard it is most likely not a Bishōnen, although there is exceptions).

That being said, I am not sure we need a example list.

PS:I believe "cute boys" also doesn't count, despite they being 'pretty' and 'feminine'. I also believe this is a subtrope of Mr. Fanservice.

edited 30th Mar '11 5:55:05 AM by Heatth

Yeah, a bishonen is a boy or man that is handsome in a feminine way. A man that is handsome in a masculine way is a hunk.

EDIT: Must YKTTW hunk.

edited 30th Mar '11 6:34:45 AM by VampireBuddha

Ukrainian Red Cross

I thought it was a specific type of Pretty Boy that lead toward being physically smaller.

Fight smart, not fair.

Not really, unless 'physically smaller' for you means 'thinner'. Being short is not related at all.

I'd say Bishounen tend to be taller than average, since the focus is on beauty and tallness is usually considered attractive. But short people aren't technically disqualified either, even if I can't think of any.

Yeah, I agree. But even tall Bishōnen tend to be very thin. Which explain some uses of Noodle People.

edited 30th Mar '11 11:12:46 AM by Heatth

Yes, I meant thinner. They tend to not only be thinner, but to be less muscular (hence "smaller") than non bishie characters.

Fight smart, not fair.

Is it any man you think looks girly? Any man who triggers Viewer Gender Confusion?

No. It is men with a girly beauty, but they don't need to be confused with women at all.

Although some people will probably be stubborn about that kind of thing, because clearly anyone with long hair is a girl, no matter what other features they have.

Bump.

Suggestion: Include a clarification about how there are two usages of the term "Bisho(u)nen"...

1. Technical: A specific Japanese-originated character type that is marked by a specific array of physical and personality traits, though not all said traits have to be used.

2. Colloquial: Taking the term too literally, and applying it to anyone the user thinks is a "beautiful/pretty boy/young man". A form of Trope Decay, and not what this trope is about.

edited 11th Apr '11 3:23:15 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

But that is not correct. It basically means "pretty boy", and has similar connotations.

Where are you getting these technical requirements? There aren't any in your link- your link says it mean "pretty boy".

The trope is about "pretty boys".

Even the OP doesn't claim otherwise, the OP complains that "hot guy" examples are added even when they are masculine and not pretty boys.

edited 11th Apr '11 9:04:08 PM by Sackett

See here.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

[Goes over to Bishōnen page]

[Sees a paragraph-long entry about how The Nostalgia Critic is apparently a total bishonen]

...Wut.

Seriously, if I had any sort of authority on this sort of thing I'd just throw out the entire Real Life section here and now — It's a giant Square Peg Round Trope magnet. Fuck, I'd probably prune it down to characters that are confirmed by the material to be aiming for this sort of aesthetic*

Because, really, is it of utmost importance that we include every goddamned character that, if you squint really hard and down two or three tequilas, might be considered androgynously beautiful?

Of course, I'm also nitpicky as all fuck when it comes to this sort of thing, so people probably shouldn't listen to me.

edited 27th Apr '11 1:34:35 PM by Sparkysharps

"If there's a hole, it's a man's job to thrust into it!" — Ryoma Nagare, New Getter Robo

Heh, at least they explained it well. The ones that are just a name are the examples that need to leave.

I cut up one dozen new men and you will die somewhat, again and again.

Wait what?

I think we do need to split off The Hunk out of this but still make it clear that both tropes fit Blue Bishōnen Ghetto.

Using Dynasty Warriors as an example

Bishounen [1]◊[2]◊[3]◊[4]◊ [5]◊[6]◊[7]◊[8]◊[9]◊[10]◊ [11]◊ [12]◊[13]◊[14]◊ [15]◊

---

Gruff The Hunk type.

[16]◊ In game he looks like Jack sparrow.◊ [17]◊[18]◊[19]◊[20]◊

edited 27th Apr '11 6:03:30 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

X Just X is something you can destroy pretty much as you go.

Fight smart, not fair.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong.

@Marq FJA,

You are confusing origin with definition.

The definition is right up there at the top of The Other Wiki page on this.

Bishounen means "pretty boy".

All the stuff about where the word comes from and it's historical development does not suddenly add a bunch of conditions to the definition.

That would be like claiming "horsepower" requires real horses pulling cars.

Edit:Oh, never mind. I misunderstood something.

edited 27th Apr '11 9:48:11 PM by Heatth

If Wikipedia says it, it must be true!

Now I have a niggling feeling this was added after the last time we looked at it, but the equivalent concept is not the same as a direct translation, so if anything were to be treated as definitive it'd be this, if we are to trust it.