Random Questions Thread

It doesn't have to beautiful, just representative.

My latest Trope page: Shapeshifting Failure

I stand by my choice. I don’t think that an audio file would be very useful, but a video documentary on human music might work.

"I AM ALPHARIUS!"

realtalk, asking us to come up with a motto for an organization we know very little about (other than the fact that they're apparently nazis and into the occult- an assumption i think is appropriate to make because of who your organization is based off of!) isn't going to get you anywhere.

give us some extra details about the organization and what you want to do with them and we might be able to help more. as it stands, just naming it after the marsh the mythical hydra lived in doesn't, personally, give me much to work from.

(though, considering that lerna is a place, a change in the motto from something obvious like "HAIL HYDRA" to a reference as to how they operate [e.g "from the shadows" or something referencing their hidden nature] might help. a reflection of the change in name from a thing [the hydra] to a place [its home] should be something to consider)

[forum cryptid: it/it's]

It's essentially same as HYDRA, occultist nazis. I named them "Lerna" because i wanted to indirectly refer to the monster snake which HYDRA was named after. In-universe explanation is that the group is the creature's "cave", as in the boss hides behind them and remains unseen, like the immortal head of a hydra hides among the other heads. The major difference is that they're swedish neo-nazis and (most of them) weren't actually around during nazi germany and they have a little less power. Their leader is the boss because he is already 120 years old, immortal, and can shapeshift into a hydra and has all the myth monster's abilities.

~ * Bleh * ~ (Looking for a russian-speaker to consult about names and words for a thing)

Does anyone have any ideas for how undead creatures might produce more of themselves, outside human victims? For how they might actually breed among each other?

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."

What does being "undead" mean in your universe? How does it work?

Probably just the good ole missionary.

I'm afraid to write, but I like to imagine.

"Undead creatures" is a very broad category. In fact, your question is so vague that we can only give vague answers, or else include so many cases that the answers are not very helpful. That said, I'll take a shot based on some assumptions.

Before we start, I should point out that if you're writing a story, you get to do the worldbuilding and make up whatever rules you like. If you're asking for advice here, I assume that you care about realism, or at least verisimilitude, and I will take that approach when answering.

By "undead", I assume you mean zombies, or whatever your work calls them: physical, meat-and-bones creatures that at least superficially resemble their state in life and have most of their original parts, including their genitals and relevant organs. If you are talking about non-corporeal undead like ghosts and wraiths, then we're off in complete fantasy and there's no point in speculating further.

By "produce more of themselves", I assume you mean some form of biological reproduction. If you mean something else, then you can make up whatever you like. The World of Warcraft Forsaken (free-willed undead) create more of themselves by having supernatural beings (Val'kyr) reanimate humanoid corpses.

Generally speaking, zombies fall into two broad categories: dead creatures that have been animated by magic or technology, and living creatures that have had their brains and other vital functions altered by magic or technology.

Animated corpses

Something that is dead and rotting but animated by some force — be it magic, demons, spirits, viruses, cybernetics, or whatever — has no vital functions and thus no biology. It may simulate sexual acts depending on the whims of whatever is controlling it, but it cannot produce or gestate offspring.

Undead males would not produce sperm, and any sperm they had in their gonads when they died would have decayed into uselessness. Undead females could not ovulate or implant an embryo even if they could somehow be fertilized.

As I pointed out above, you can of course make up any rules you want here, but without some form of artificial, external assistance, there would seem to be no way around this problem.

Living, altered creatures

For whatever reason, most zombies portrayed in fiction these days are biologically alive but altered by something, be it magic, disease, or technology. Everyone wants their zombies to be different, so hey-o. Anyway, whether such creatures could reproduce would depend entirely on the biology of their existence. Let's pick at one specific example to show what I mean.

The Resident Evil series — at least the games I played — postulate that a mutagenic virus creates zombies by rewriting a creature's genetic code, like an extreme version of the gene therapy techniques employed today. The virus destroys most higher brain functions, leaving only aggression, hunger, and movement capabilities. In most subjects, it causes necrotizing rot in the outer layers of flesh. It can "revitalize" dead creatures in some unspecified manner.

It is very unlikely that such zombies could or would reproduce:

• They have no sex drive, so would not copulate unless somehow trained or forced to do so.
• The systemic decay of their outer tissues post-infection would mean their genitals would probably stop functioning in any usable manner.
• It seems improbable that a female would survive long enough post-infection to gestate a child.
• The genetic mutations caused by the virus, if passed to the offspring, would almost certainly kill it. If not passed down, the hormonal environment of the mother's body would be so drastically altered as to make gestation impossible.

There are other examples of zombies that don't involve the traditional decay, such as "voodoo zombies" or "drug zombies", where chemical or magical alterations are made to a creature's mind without affecting other parts of their body. Such creatures could probably still reproduce, since their biology remains unchanged, but whether they retain any sex drive or maternal behavior is a separate question.

You could confine a pregnant female and force her to give birth if you wanted, but the offspring would be normal examples of their species (absent any side-effects from whatever is controlling them).

Summary

The answer to your question, therefore, is almost certainly no, unless you go out of your way to design a scenario in which it is possible.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 27th 2019 at 9:26:51 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Bear in mind that "animated corpse" is not limited to cases where the undead's body remains as "biologically dead" as it was before renanimation. I've seen more than a few cases of undead whose originally dead bodies essentially regain several if not all of their past biological functions, with the primary distinguishing trait between undead and the truly living being that the former are animated by some "unnatural" life-force (i.e. "unlife-force") that is responsible for any other traits that distinguish undead from the living (e.g. being ageless). Such cases would basically be no different from a normal living being in terms of reproduction unless specifically stated otherwise (like, perhaps their unlife-force makes it really hard for them to produce viable gametes and/or successfully fertilize, either with anyone or only with the living due to life-force/unlife-force incompatibility).

Edited by MarqFJA on Feb 27th 2019 at 5:29:23 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Yeah, I forgot about the whole "sparkly vampires" thing that's come into popularity recently, when you have supernatural beings with enhanced lifespans and physical capabilities, but who still seem to be biologically alive and fully capable of reproduction.

There are questions of genetic compatibility, such as whether the alterations that give them their abilities make their genomes incompatible with normal humans — they would literally be a different species at that point.

Obviously, I'm thinking about Twilight (much though I would prefer not to), in which a human female becomes pregnant with a vampire's baby. I don't think the series ever discusses whether vampires can reproduce among each other, or at least I don't care enough about it to find out.

You also have the Blade series (and its source comics) in which a vampire biting a pregnant woman causes her unborn child to adopt certain vampiric traits through genetic modification.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 27th 2019 at 9:38:04 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

And then there's World of Darkness, where a vampire's "natural" state is that of a walking, talking corpse, but can expend some of their precious blood-energy to temporarily restore the "blush of life" to their body, allowing them to pass for a living human that breathes, has a pulse, and can even keep down food within their non-functional stomach (they normally vomit it up very quickly). IIRC that's also the only way for them to engage in sexual intercourse... though Vampiric Draining is so vastly more pleasurable that sex is rather stale and bland in comparison.

Edited by MarqFJA on Feb 27th 2019 at 7:27:49 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Can a vampire doing that impregnate a living woman? If so, what is the result? (I haven't followed World of Darkness for years.) I'd assume that a female vampire could not become pregnant in such a manner, unless they could somehow sustain the blush of life for nine months straight.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 27th 2019 at 11:45:25 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

IIRC, no. All of vampires' bodily fluids are replaced with vitae, which is magically-enhanced blood they've consumed. And blush of life is what it says - just a trick to appear alive, it doesn't actually restore the organs' functions.

Though there could exist, theoretically, some Koldunic ritual to allow vampiric pregnancy to happen, but that's a completely different matter.

Edited by Millership on Feb 27th 2019 at 11:51:50 PM

Spiral out, keep going.

In Vampire: The Masquerade, yes, though only for the 14th and 15th generations of vampires (colloquially nicknamed "thin-bloods"), and I assume it also requires the vampire to have assumed the "blush of life".

In Vampire: The Requiem, the answer is normally "no", but that can be worked around using specific rituals of dark magic... with the "benefit" that such rituals also circumvent the whole issue of sex (i.e. females can impregnate females, and males can be impregnated by either sex).

You appear to be working on incomplete/outdated information.

Edited by MarqFJA on Feb 27th 2019 at 8:51:24 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Thus inspiring legions of teenage girls to furiously write vampire shipping fics? (sigh) At least the WoD writers know their audience.

Anyway, I think we've adequately answered the question: a story can find justifications for undead reproduction if it wants to.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 27th 2019 at 12:55:18 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

To be fair, VTR's Dhampir are actually bad for vampires (and not in the Final Death sense; they're actually Fate Worse than Death incarnate for the vampires), and IIRC they're strictly NPCs.

But yes, you are right in that we've reached satisfactory conclusion on the subject.

Edited by MarqFJA on Feb 27th 2019 at 8:55:08 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Yeah... The thin-bloods rulebook is the one our VTM group hadn't the need to touch.

Edited by Millership on Feb 27th 2019 at 11:56:18 PM

Spiral out, keep going.

I'm asking, basically, if corporeal undead beyond zombies could reproduce among each other. Any biologists in here? Any idea for how such a thing might work between two creatures that used to be alive and still have a body?

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."

Short answer: it can't without phlebotinum.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

It also kind of violates the narrative purpose of the undead.

If you mean the kind of undead that remain biologically dead for almost all intents and purposes that don't pertain to them being a threat to the living (i.e. somehow they're able to move their muscles, perceive their surroundings and have the bare minimum of mental activity to respond to sensory stimuli in an animal-like manner), then the answer is as the others have stated: You need magic-like Applied Phlebotinum for it to be possible. Like, the unlife-force that animates them makes it so that a male undead's seminal fluid can coalesce in a female undead's womb and turn into an undead mass that grows into an undead baby in defiance of all the laws of biology.

Now, if your undead are more like Resident Evil's zombies, who are technically alive but have an extensive case of necrosis across so much of the body that they legitimately pass for walking corpses, then maybe it's possible if enough of the reproductive organs is spared.

Edited by MarqFJA on Feb 28th 2019 at 3:38:48 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

And if the female's biology isn't too altered to successfully gestate a child, never mind whether she would even live that long.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

I suppose some sort of brain fungus that makes people behave zombie-like could also go into heat occassionally...

I'd think it should be impossible for any kind of zombie, even a drug-zombie for even think about having sex, getting pregnant, and giving birth to a 'living' baby. If the undeadness is caused by drug or sickness, the baby would propably be born malformed and die, at least of not being taken care of, be it born living or 'dead'.

~ * Bleh * ~ (Looking for a russian-speaker to consult about names and words for a thing)

You probably should use quote blocks rather than all those arrows...

[[quoteblock]]

Author: Quote

[[/quoteblock]]

Edited by MCE on Mar 1st 2019 at 4:59:59 AM

My latest Trope page: Shapeshifting Failure