Spider-Man General Discussion

Well they're both teenage Spider-themed superheroes that are dealing with guilt complexes over the death of Peter Parker. They're both people from different universes that are dealing with being separated from their old universes (Gwen voluntarily so).

Rather I'd ask, "Why DON'T they work?"

I should note I am very much a Miles/Gwen shipper.

I've always felt called out by people who hate this couple but I've never liked Lois and Superman either.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 3rd 2021 at 1:09:56 AM

Yeah, I think Bombshell is the best Miles love interest, even if they haven't done anything with her in a while.

Before he got interrupted by Knull, Ahmed was setting up Miles with Starling, which could be interesting.

Exactly, about as shallow as Superman and Wonder Woman being paired up because they have similar color schemes, powers, and reputation as the strongest male and female heroes on the planet.

Plus fact of the matter is the risk of Gwen becoming nothing more than a supporting character to Miles. She’s already stuck on Earth and abandoned her own setting, at this point the worst thing that can happen is being nothing more than someone’s romantic interest.

Gwen should stand on her own like Peter can and this means having her own supporting cast which includes a love interest only for her.

Edited by slimcoder on Mar 3rd 2021 at 1:20:14 AM

The one true romantic partner for Supes is clearly his mermaid girlfriend

In general, most big name superhero relationships tend to just turn one into a secondary character for the other. Like, remember Storm and Black Panther?

Eh, unless it's a limited series, there's always going to be more than one love interest. Static's entire existence had the dichotomy of his Secret-Keeper being a girl he crushed on but wasn't into him that way, but he dated others along the way. It's the nature of the beast.

More brilliance from Reggie Hudlin.

Edited by Beatman1 on Mar 3rd 2021 at 4:36:27 AM

I mean, I'm pretty sure Lana (Bombshell) has feelings for Miles but a) they're not reciprocated and b) he isn't aware of them to begin with.

I’d say it depends

On whether it’s a solo or an ensemble

Sue Mrs Mr Fantastic has had ups and downs in that regard. Wasp mostly downs until she was put on the Avengers by Gyrich and Hank told to go cool his heels. With Luke and Jessica it depends on whose book it is

Gwen's story arc in her setting ended. I mean ENDED.

There's nothing for her to do there as she's an outed superhero, served time, and retired.

I think she's fine in 616.

So please tell me what makes them unsuitable?

Super/Wondy shipper here.

Both being good awesome people is, by itself, pretty good as a basis for a relationship.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Mar 4th 2021 at 11:53:14 AM

I’d think she’d want to stop the Storms who do murders and blackmailed her into leaving her home?

I assume its a chemistry issue and that people might just like that ship for the Power Couple aspect (or All Amazons Want Hercules)

Plus simple laziness really. Ever notice that in every AU story Supes always gets with Wondy after Lois dies? Superman and Wonder Woman are never really allowed to date anyone else, just each other with just feels lazy.

Uh yeah I’m pretty sure Gwen should prolly do something about the evil dictators that currently her blackmailed her into exile and are taking over he world.

Saying she has absolutely nothing to do there is kinda nonsense. Plus if we go with that reasoning then Daredevil has absolutely no reason to stay on 616 after also being outed, retired, and is currently doing time so he should abandon his friends and family to head to another universe.

Edited by slimcoder on Mar 4th 2021 at 12:34:25 PM

Diana doesn't love Clark, she admits as such in Rucka's run during Rebirth. She only viewed her attraction to Superman as "easy" compared to her more complicated feelings for Steve. She later tells Lois her feelings for Clark aren't true any longer and that was the end of that.

To me, I always saw that as Diana 'growing up' and respecting Lois, she sort of tried doing the same thing in pre-flashpoint but it felt insincere every time it was brought up because she'd go right back to pining for Clark and being inappropriately flirty with him in their various interactions.

Now they're pretty much just acquaintances, nowhere near as close as they used to be, and that's a good thing.

They were an item in the recent animated movies, but that also came to an amicable end because Diana realised Clark simply didn't love her as much as he did Lois.

You can be the nicest people in the world, but it's never a good look when you're constantly crushing on a man who is taken already. Diana wasn't even consistent with her crush as the dipsticks at DC even tried pairing her with Bruce to create more synergy with their relationship in the animated series.

Tom King even briefly revisited Diana's attraction to Bruce in his Batman run, and it came only a month or two after Bruce got engaged to Selina. Worse still, Diana was already dating Steve again. It made everyone look bad and reminded both 'Clois' and 'Superwonder' fans of the pre-flashpoint days which depicted her as a potential homewrecker.

Diana has her own book, with her own supporting cast and worldly problems, there's more interesting developments to be had with them than her sharing Superman's issues. The New 52 didn't suddenly get better because she was his girlfriend, and that version of Superman was thoroughly unlikeable.

Edited by Zarius on Mar 4th 2021 at 12:29:32 PM

The main issue with Diana is well...her love interest is Steve Trevor, a character that Alan Moore and Grant Morrison agreed was the lamest of the Golden Age love interests (and those two agreeing is a sight to behold). Moore was going to make his pastiche in his Glory proposal a complete loser, and Morrison, well, Earth One Wondy isn't exactly known for having the best optics with the stuff they did.

As for Superman and Wonder Woman, other than the Project A-Ko joke, it feels very simple. Strong man and strong woman. I think a lot of stories have tackled the base attraction and revulsion (Astro City had The Samaritan date Winged Victory for a night, and it didn't go great, although they form a relationship later on apparently).

Edited by Beatman1 on Mar 4th 2021 at 3:30:14 PM

Yeah, Gwen's story isn't close to being over. Heck, her current storyline isn't over, she still has Johnny and Sue to worry about, her book just got cancelled.

My thought about super wonder is that it’s never about her

She gets wrapped up in Clark’s stories and often starts not to feel like herself

And the relationship tends to be associated with bad stories and elseworlds

That doesn’t mean that the relationship can’t work if good writing were applied to it but everything I’ve seen has not sold me on it

And maybe Steve Trevor isn’t a thrilling love interest. Although I wonder if there’s some disdain there because he’s the guy that needs to be rescued. Like how normal civilian love interests for superheroines tend to be disliked and superheroines instead get paired up with other heroes. As far as I can tell Steve Trevor is fine. Not exceptional but fine. How many male love interests are there from the golden age anyway?

But on that note, the one volume of Rebirth Wonder Woman I’ve read has sold me on Wonder Woman and Cheetah

Edited by Bocaj on Mar 4th 2021 at 3:35:54 PM

Preview of Amazing Spider-Man#61

Has Spidey won any fights recently? It kinda reminds me of the stretch of issues from about #190-#200 where he lost almost every fight in the leadup.

Oh goodie, they fixed the costume. The flashlight eyes bothered the heck out of me. Having them as solid lenses works so much better.

Wait, did they ever announce what the new job was supposed to be? Or have I missed it?

I love how every single person at the table says they hate boomerang.

Hell, even their kids tend to take more after Superman than after Diana.

DC's Boomerang and Marvel's Boomerang are alike in having numerous people hate their guts.

Edited by windleopard on Mar 4th 2021 at 8:41:39 AM

Speaking of Gwen why is she becoming Batgirl?

Heroes Reborn is going to alter the world so that the Squadron Supreme are the only heroes.

For some heroes this means their origins never happened. Peter Parker is Hyperion’s Pal instead of Spider-Man. Some other heroes stick around but have their stories changed to align with the Squadron Supreme.

Spider-Gwen being a sidekick to Nighthawk, the Not Batman. Ms Marvel being inspired by Power Princess, Sam Nova by Doctor Spectrum, Miles becoming the new Falcon after the Green Goblin killed Sam Wilson

That’s what she gets for being stranded in the 616, I guess

Barbara Gwendon

...I'll see myself out.