Tales Series

So, on a whim I fished out my PS 3 from its dust throne and looked into getting some Tales games stuck in its library, and I lucked out by finding some people who sold digital versions (which aren't on the PSN Store anymore) at a pittance. So after a bit of finagling with burner accounts, I'm now in possession of Graces f, Xillia and Xillia 2 for a few bucks. They'll have to wait till I'm done with my current games (try NEO TWEWY, it's great), but I'm really looking forward to these. I've heard and seen great stuff from Graces f's combat, but both Xillias have a more manageable runtime (for Tales titles anyway, sub 40 hours for the main story and sub 60 for a reasonable amount of side content) from what I've looked up, so I'm thinking I'll start with Xillia 1 then go from there.

So Namco "appreciate the enthusiasm showed by fans worldwide to share [their] portfolio", meaning they apparently didn't see that stuff coming. I guess the demands for an Abyss remaster completely sailed over the heads.

Also the upcoming Symphonia remaster is keeping everything from the Chronicles remaster which we already knew (although clearly some people somehow didn't.) Although no symphonia 2. Of course.

Decided to start with Xillia 1 after all. Just a bit in, but I like what I'm seeing so far, the leads aren't groundbreaking but they're serviceable (not a fan of Jude's Stock Light-Novel Hero look and meek personality but I guess there's room to grow, and Millia is less of a generic kuudere than she first seemed) and the combat has potential, I'm intrigued at the possible ways this resource system can evolve. Also, the fact that there's multiple serviceable defensive options built in from the get go is a big plus. Let's see if they can overcome my reservations around the LMBS, it looks like it doesn't have Vesperia's manual cancel but then the free run into LMBS transition is less clunky.

Edited by Ninety on Nov 25th 2022 at 6:07:34 AM

I kinda like Milla's semi-wacky personality myself. I think her X1 outfit compliments that quite well too. Either that or midriffs are my thing really.

Bamco has recently filed a trademark for “Tales of Arise: Beyond the Dawn”.

Could it be a DLC Expansion or even possibly a sequel?

Another Eden is doing another Tales crossover (this time with Arise and Symphonia) to which the probable most interesting point of relevance is the animated trailer by Production I.G featuring a new song written by the same band that did Arise's OP.

Edited by Nouct on Dec 13th 2022 at 3:00:17 AM

Lloyd looks weirdly grown up there.

Wonder what the story will be about this time. Persona 5 second collab was Lighter and Softer than the first one, but it looks like this one will be probably bigger in scope than the previous where it spent most of the characters meetings each other before involving the villains plot.

Lloyd (and Colette, Zelos and Genis by default) could be post Dawn of the New World.

Wasn't Zelos in his 20s in the first game?

I believe he was 22, so he would have been 24 in DOTNW.

So I've been playing a bunch of Xillia, about midway through Act 2 I believe. Some assorted thoughts so far:

• Art direction is good as usual for Tales and the stylization works, but the lack of pre-rendered cutscenes means that a lot of the emotional moments are undercut by the wooden model animations. I felt this was pretty excusable in Symphonia and Vesperia, but here the overall graphical quality is high enough that it falls into a bit of an uncanny valley vibe.
• Voice acting (I play in English) is rather spotty. Not offensively so, but it has a very mid-2000s anime dub feeling to it. Alvin fares the best out of the main cast, Milla is way too wooden (beyond what her stoic character warrants), Jude's VA went very hard on the "wide eyed shonen protag" direction, Leia is similarly mediocre. Rowan and Elize are fine. Teepo is annoying, but that's kind of a given. Oh, and I pegged Yuri Lowenthal the moment I heard the bad guy's sidekick speak, the guy has one hell of a distinctive voice.
• Music is rather good, as is usual for Tales.
• I really appreciate the sidequest tracker. The triggers for starting them are still obscure enough that I feel the need to follow a guide, lest I either miss half the content or have to talk to every NPC in the world each time a story beat happens, but it's a welcome improvement.
• Story reeeeeally drags its feet. I'm still waiting for the usual Tales plot twist, because so far the story has been very straightforward in the main goal (get back to Fenmont and destroy the WMD) with just a bunch of side-story distractions like Elize and Rowan's subplots. The Act 1 break with the failed Fort assault and Milla's injury and the timeskip was a bit of a clumsy addition, too. Doesn't feel like it added much other than a way to add Leia into the party and introduce Jude's parents.
  • Jude's dad is a dick. I'm generally inclined to side with the "careful if stifling parent" character even when they go against the teenage MC, but this guy is an especially condescending, rude and unreasonable example. Hopefully it's intentional, as that one skit with Alvin implies a deeper story.
• Speaking of Alvin. Boy, a world-weary but laid-back womanizer who is often the butt of jokes and not taken that seriously by the rest of the party and keeps his past close to his chest. I wonder how that turned out the last couple times? Granted, they already came out with him being a "traitor" and lampshaded it so much that I think that's that, but he could turn coat more yet. Anyway, like Zelos and unlike Raven, he's rather likeable. I also appreciated the subplot with the former human trafficker doctor, showed a believably darker side to him (if a bit forced due to the "Exodus is the only one that can make my mom's medicine" bit being kinda tossed in there). Overall, the most interesting member of the party.
• I'm willing to give a chance to the different world format (point-to-point map travel as opposed to overworld and dungeons), but the wide-open areas in between towns and dungeons filled with nothing but empty space, basic enemies and scattered loot are pretty boring. The level design is a marked step down from the other Tales I've played, and even the actual dungeons are forgettable.
• I like the Lillium Orb system decently well. It rarely feels like you're lacking for SP and the freedom in order of unlocking skills and artes is welcome. I expect a veteran player would know which route to take to minimize the levels needed to get to the good stuff, but I'm content in finding my own way through it.
• On the other hand, tying skills to this means that, unlike Vesperia's excellent gear system, there's really nothing exciting about getting new gear. Just a bundle of stats and maybe an elemental effect, which is detrimental as often as not. Similarly, no crafting and the shop expansion mechanic instead means that a lot of your loot is just upgrade materials that give you marginal improvements, and to top it off the gald gain is such that you often can't afford to buy the new gear you unlock — or else you unlock so much of it at once that you just go for the strongest one and skip the in between ones. Just feels like change for change's sake.
• As for the meat of the game, the combat:
  • No burying the lede: I like it a lot. Surprisingly so, even. For reasons I'll get into later it doesn't generate much buzz or interest even among the gameplay-focused Tales fandom (the likes who make challenge runs and combo videos) compared to many other entries like Vesperia, Graces f and Xillia 2, and so it surprised me pleasantly.
  • From the Tales I've played so far (including short segments of Berseria and Arise), the movement and defense is the best by far. It integrates the free run LMBS in a way that feels much less clunky and restrictive than in Vesperia (or nonexistent like in Symphonia) without giving up the upsides, such as the fighting game-styled control scheme. It amply fixes one of my biggest problem with the others' combat, being the lack of depth and focus on defensive play so that even for the games with deep combo systems it often felt like you had nothing to do but hold block or run around until it was your turn to attack. Instead, between the well-integrated block, backstep and front dash, additional mechanics like Mirage Step for Y-axis shifting mid-combo, Flash Guard and Snap Pivot, it feels like it scratches the proper action game itch in a way that the others often didn't. The Coliseum and 1v1 bosses are that much more fun because of it.
  • That said, and this is one of the reasons the combo fiends don't care for it, the offense leaves quite a bit to be desired. The AC system for limiting combos is understandable and does a good job in offering an alternative to the clunkier implementations like the previous hard-coded allowed cancels, but the few ways to extend, increase or reset AC means that combos tend to be quite linear — there's a few methods, but by and large your main extension is by using multihit artes that let you reset to neutral AC-wise without dropping the combo (like Binding Sphere or the Splash spells), or else by doing hard knockdown into OTG loops, which feels arbitrary and limiting. Every arte costing one AC, as well as normal attacks, only exacerbates the feeling of offensive stagnancy.
  • This isn't helped by Overlimit, the combo rule-breaking option as it was previously, being tied to the Link Up mechanic, and so automatically disqualifying it from use in solo play. Even outside of that, the fact that it only goes up by using Link Artes is a bit flow-breaking, and it being mandatory when you use a LA at max gauge leaves a bad taste in my mouth — on regular encounters it means you feel forced not to use L As at max gauge or else you just blew an important resource.
  • On the other hand, the rest of the Link system is pretty great. The Link Artes themselves are cool and possibly my favorite implementation of paired artes yet, the bonuses from linking with specific characters are varied and meaningful enough (matching their usefulness to specific enemy types is a bit artificial, but not the end of the world) that it really encourages switching around depending on the encounter and situatiom and not just going for the path of least resistance (yes, I'm talking about Jude x Milla). The link skills are a neat passive buff too, and I love the little middle and end of battle interactions you get from linking (Alvin and Leia's secret handshake is the best).
  • The custom basic arte combos resulting from linking up are a bit disorienting because they seem to trigger whenever, but I don't dislike them. As for solo basic attacks, they're excellent — great variety and okay damage, higher TP restore that makes it feel like a more in-combat than long-term resource (combined with blocking restoring TP), good extra properties like Alvin's back attack gunshots or Jude's up attack grounded pickup, and the heavy attacks are a nice bit of variety, especially once you get Mirage Assault and can use them defensively as well. Just wish they didn't cost as much AC as artes. I hear Graces f does this better. Also, the inputs for jumping vs up-attacks are finnicky as always, so I mostly use launchers for that purpose.
  • As for the characters in combat, the roster is smaller and consequently less diverse than other games, but I don't really mind. Not only does it allow for a good selection of linked artes with the 15 possible character combos, I always felt that a couple of the party members were kinda filler in other games. Six is plenty. The smaller roster results in some role compression, which in turn makes parties feel less static than in other games (DPS MC, healer, offensive caster, misc) due to having multiple options for single-target DPS, healing and whatnot.
  • Jude continues the tradition of having the MC be the most fun and combo-heavy by a fair margin, with a versatile moveset that's excellent at linking together, moving around the battlefield and even a spot of healing (good for OOC heals to alleviate the dedicated healer's TP expenditure). His Snap Pivot is also a great way to teach the player to engage with the backstep mechanic, and is easily the second best character-specific ability (even if it did get me killed once by making me appear behind a faraway monster in the Coliseum and fall to my death)
  • Milla is an interesting implementation of the magic knight role by adding the air combo character job to her skillset and her Spirit Shift, the best character mechanic. Adds a ton of depth and versatility to her moveset, especially considering the slightly different effects of elemental tiers when spirit shifted. As with other air characters she's a bit slow to get going combo-wise, but nowhere near as bad as Judith and her spellcasting is a neat bonus, even if I don't use it much when controlling her.
  • Alvin is a bit of an oddball, being the tankiest member and having slow basic attacks but becoming a lot quicker when you cancel artes into one another and having a surprisingly good ranged DPS role. His charge mechanic is interesting, though I wish Quick Charge came in earlier and also that there were more methods to gain charges than holding down the arte button, in frantic fights it makes it feel like a luxury that you tend to forget and is not always worth the idleness. Could have taken a page out of its inspiration in fighting games and allowed directional hold inputs to stack charges, or maybe a specific arte or skill for it. Another character that takes some getting used to but feels like a powerhouse once you do.
  • Elize continues the proud tradition of Bamco trying to make the designated healer have some actual combat options, bless their hearts. As with the other examples, it doesn't really land. She's almost always relegated to healer NPC duty and her unique ability is almost never used, but at least she's a bit less than mandatory due to 3/5 of the rest of the party having healing artes as well.
  • Rowan is a caster that casts. Like Rita before him, he has a bunch of non-magic artes you'll never use (outside of triggering link artes) and is mostly relegated to NPC as well, although his Conduction mechanic is a fun little minigame to differentiate him from Milla as a caster and give you some incentive to use him. A straightforward character that you don't need but rarely regret having, and his linked skill can be exttemely useful.
  • Leia, as the Jane-come-lately of the team, feels like she lacks a super defined role. Since she's a mix of dedicated healer and melee DPS she can fill in for Elize if you want someone less vulnerable or for her steal skill, but I'd mostly rather my healer spend their time doing that and maybe the odd buff or crowd control. She's also spread thin with some air-focused skills. Overall a decent character but feels more like a luxury option than an integral part of the team.
  • The increased ease of switching characters mid-combat, and even swapping your roster, is very welcome — feels like it was inexplicably restrictive in the other games where here it's totally at-will, and lets you get more mileage out of your party, linked artes and linked passive skills than ever before. Huge fan.

Man, I always ramble like hell on these. Oh well, takeaway is that I'm having a lot of fun but want the plot to get on with it already, which admittedly goes against my scour-every-bit-of-content ethos. I'm not blown away or anything but the experience has been largely positive.

Edited by Ninety on Dec 22nd 2022 at 10:48:53 AM

What's funny is Jude is significantly worse in Japanese. He had a 10 year old boy voice and it's jarring as hell.

I was very torn on Alvin. His VA is good, and that was the only thing that kept me from asking why the party didn't just kill him multiple times over, not to get into spoilers.

Edited by PhiSat on Dec 22nd 2022 at 11:12:04 AM

Alvin can bascly be summed up by the fact that his Mystic Arte is called "Expendable Pride"

Betraying people is basically Alvin's only social skill.

Yeah Alvin's role is rather funny in that he's an extremely obvious potential traitor, he knows it, everyone knows it, they say as much in multiple skits. But he's useful and likeable so they keep him around anyway. Though I guess he's not done going through the revolving door yet.

And I heard some of the JP dialogue and sheesh, no kidding about Jude. Man is a med student working on his thesis and he sounds like his only encounter with puberty has been through textbooks. I've no idea whay his actual age is supposed to be, he's shorter than Milla and is treated like a kid by his dad and seniors, feels like he's not done growing yet, but he's also qualified as a medical professional and can handle himself in life (though that doesn't say much considering he's a JRPG protagonist). 17, maybe?

He's meant to be 15, which is why half the fanbase hate shipping him with Alvin and the other half just ignore his age entirely.

I don't know what Bamco was thinking, because he really could have been 17-19 and him being in university but still being kinda naive would have been 100% reasonable.

There's also a lot of fans who ship Alvin with Leia, which runs into the same age issue.

I sometimes wonder if Alvin was meant to be a parody of the traitor twist with how its handled.

Maybe what they should have done was written all the setup for Alvin to be the traitor, then not have him actually betray anyone.

And have Elise be the traitor instead.

Hey, spoilers here. I'm not that far in, I'm at the wyverns.

Anyway, 15? Nutty. Makes his evident crush on Milla seem even more hopeless, though she's 20-but-not-really-20 given that she appears to have continuity of consciousness from before her incarnation, so... shrug? 15 to 20 is not more hopeless than 15 to 20+eons, so whatever.

Side note, it's hilarious how everyone from Leronde, as soon as they meet Milla, unanimously think "man, Leia's fucked". Childhood friends are cursed.

Long time no see fellas.

This marks the second, the SECOND Christmas I let the Playstation 5 slip under my nose. The thing is never available! I am starting to think it never existed. We dreamed it or whatever. No shop retails it, and preorders are always out of the question. What the heck?

I tried to hold off until I got one to play Tales Of Arise in the snazzy new console, but my old trusty Numbuh 4 will have to make do... I already managed to get the game cheap, 30 something bucks! I dont want to wait anymore. I have Tales anxiety! So I popped the disk on the slot and the old junk updates to 8.3... huh? Maaan, it was like 5.5 before, since I never had it online... okay, its starting!

Man, thats a lot to take in! Expect more reports in the future.

Edited by FlightMaster on Jan 6th 2023 at 5:08:03 PM

Re: TOX

• AC and TP are rather pointless resources, because they recharge too fast and linking with Elize makes TP a non-issue.
• Elize is actually a good contender for the best healer in the series and she does have a lot of options (very few healers have dedicated mobility options like Teepo Copter).
• Leia always get shafted. Get used to it early to avoid disappointment (thanks, game).
• Likewise, bosses will never let you combo anything outside of terror.

Also, not sure which sidekick you mean. Yuri Lowenthal is not a named character in Xillia for sure...unless it's a random background mook.

You can combo Stop Flow against anything in the game, bosses included, but it's more of a two player strat since the AI won't do it properly or take advantage of it.

Edited by PhiSat on Jan 6th 2023 at 9:35:16 AM

I think that Ninety meant they recognized Yuri's voice actor.