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WMG / Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney

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When Apollo met Klavier but before they spoke to each other, Klavier was lying about something.
Hence the intense stare. Klavier accidentally triggers Apollo's perception abilities, but since he didn't know about them quite yet, it just manifested as an intense stare at more or less nothing.

The "kid" who sent all of the Steel Samurai stuff to Phoenix was Edgeworth.
No evidence, really, other than the fact that he was a Steel Samurai fan. And this would be really adorable.
  • Also, I can't really imagine happy-go-lucky Maya insisting that he write reports on them. Our dear Edgey on the other hand.... needless to say, this pleases my inner yaoi fangirl.
    • OBJECTION! Edgeworth would probably sooner burn his cravat before he'd admit to being a total fanboy of a children's show! However, if Edgeworth did give up his pride and confess this obvious fact about himself to Phoenix... The reports really sound like something he would do. All formal and Serious Business.
      • HOLD IT! Sure, Edgeworth would never admit to that... and Phoenix would never let him live it down. Ergo, he'd only refer to Edgeworth as a "kid" if Edgeworth was pretending to be Maya the entire time.
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    • Hold it! Miles could simply be giving Phoenix the task of writing essays with the excuse that he wants to keep Phoenix's mind sharp. Phoenix just goes with it out of amusement and boredom. Alternately, Phoenix wasn't telling the whole truth, and the essays were actually a cover (or code) for the status reports he was doing on a secret mission Edgeworth sent him on. This idea is based on an idea from below, but maybe Edgey and Feenie were long working on plans to fix the Dark Age of the Law by getting Phoenix back behind the defence bench and getting Athena around.
      • TAKE THAT! Please take a look at Edgeworth's introductory scene in Dual Destinies. If you, for whatever reason, are unable to do so, I will point out one little detail: Edgeworth has a Steel Samurai figurine fully visible in his office! Therefore, the above troper's theory that Edgeworth never would admit to doing that may very well be invalid, as Edgeworth might have become a bit more open about it during the events of Apollo Justice!
      • OBJECTION! ::slams desk:: That evidence, your honor, holds no water, as the figurine was present on Edgeworth's office much before the events of Dual Destinies. In fact, it has been there practically from the very beginning, as seen in the 5th case of the first game and in Edgeworth's office in Investigations. The only noticeable difference is that in Dual Destinies, due to Edgeworth moving to another office, (understandable, since he's now the Chief Prosecutor), the figurine has changed of location and is now is not by the window anymore. However, none of this ever made Edgeworth any less secretive about his love for the show. ::Taps papers:: Take for instance, the first case of Investigations, where, if you inspect the figurine, Gumshoe will ask if he's a fan and he will deny it angrily. In short, the fact that the figurine is visible means nothing, and in the end, the possibility that Edgeworth might be more or less open to admitting he's a fan is also trivial to the question at hand: Who sent the videos to Phoenix? While there are many possibilities, I believe it was either Maya or Pearly as issued by Maya. Why? Well, Phoenix claimed that a "kid" sent him those tapes. Quite frankly, do you think Phoenix would refer to Edgeworth as "a kid", even if he was trying to cover his identity? Also, we know for a fact that Maya takes the Steel Samurai very very seriously, so I wouldn't put it past her to ask Phoenix to make reports about it if only to keep him entertained or as an excuse so he would watch the show and to get full summaries from him. Or, as stated before, the "reports" part could be just a cover-up for something else altogether.
      • OBJECTION! I admit that the motive that Edgeworth would have to request the reports, minus the Spy Speak, would also apply to Maya. After all, if one is training to be the Master of Khurian, one doesn't have the time for an Archive Binge. Moreover, such a trainee would also be barred from watching television, and so cannot see the episodes first hand. *slams desk* That being said, there's one very important thing that Council has failed to reveal: *points* How Maya could afford to purchase those tapes, let alone send them to Phoenix. The same circumstances that would bar Maya from watching the Samurai franchise directly *desk slam* would also bar her from having (that) much in the way of spending money! And unless Phoenix charged a hefty sum from those who wanted to play Poker, and to my recollection, he did not take money for playing lest he be found out by authorities, *points* he would have no way to afford those tapes himself, not with also having to rear Trucy! *shrugs* As an up-and-coming Prosecutor, Edgeworth's wealth can be inferred; *desk slam* not so with Maya or Phoenix. If you claim that either of them did have such means, *points* then I insist on seeing the evidence!
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    • ORDER! ORDER! Let's compromise: Edgeworth did send Phoenix the Steel Samurai stuff, but he sent it because he wanted Phoenix to give it to Maya as a gift when the two met again; his opinion of the show had nothing to do with the gift.
      • OBJECTION! So does that mean the Judge thinks that Mystic Maya... *smiles* is Prosecutor Edgeworth's "Special Someone?"

Phoenix Wright caused the murder of Drew Misham to happen.
He was ridiculously prepared for a chance event he found out about the day before a trial. He knew he couldn't achieve his goals unless one of them died, and (without going into spoilers) had decent motive. And he was desperate. Put two and two together, and what do you get?
  • But... Kristoph poisoned the stamp meant for Vera... And he could've used another case for the Jurist System...
    • He was going to, initially. The beginning of Turnabout Succession says the case that was originally assigned as a test of the new system got changed at the last minute, presumably because Phoenix caught on about Drew Misham's death and quickly deduced what had happened, allowing him to file the motion to change the trial the Jurist System was going to be used on at the eleventh hour.

Trucy was the one who forged the bloody card, not Phoenix.
Phoenix claimed he was the one who forged the card in order to protect Trucy. He couldn't have given it to Trucy after the murder, because he was arrested before they could meet. He couldn't have prepared it beforehand, because even he couldn't predict Zak was going to be killed that day, let alone the circumstances of his death. Trucy was also the one who gave Apollo that card in the first place. That means the only way Trucy could have given Apollo that card was if she was the one who made it.

Trucy already knows she's related to Apollo.
The fact Phoenix trusts her to know what Apollo is sensing when he attempts to Perceive and explain it to him suggests she already knows there is something tying them together, even if she might not be entirely clear on what that is. She is already able to use some measure of the Perceive ability (since it keeps Phoenix from losing at cards) and the fact that this lawyer whom she only met once before she's asked to supervise his ability can do the same thing means either Phoenix already informed her that she and Apollo are related or she has since worked it out herself and is simply holding onto the info as her own little secret.

Apollo doesn't trust anyone he works with, clients included.
I mean, I wouldn't if I were him. His first four clients, one of which is his boss, are all guilty of some crime- Phoenix forged evidence for the trial, Wocky is a gangbanger, Machi a smuggler, and Vera a professional forger. Phoenix also uses Apollo throughout Apollo's home game, manipulating him to help clear his name. Apollo's very first boss turned out to be a murderer, and the first two people to hire him either manipulated him to get the truth, or hired him because they thought he'd fail for sure. Trucy is the one who gave him the forged evidence and she fakes being attacked by a man with a knife and kept things from him regarding her father. Athena was hand-picked and hired by Phoenix, and was at the scene of the crime with Apollo's best friend was murdered (something that happened only a few months after they'd met). Further, Apollo was educated on law during the Dark Age of the Law. Nobody has ever given him a reason to really trust them. Further, Apollo seems to dislike teamwork- he doesn't like having help, which is part of why he can't stand Klavier (because he genuinely cannot stand him- there's a lot of thinly-veiled dislike between their forced politeness later in Dual Destinies). It has nothing to do with Klavier being the attorney on when Phoenix lost his badge, it's because Klavier belittles him and helps him out when Apollo prefers to do things for himself, and probably a total lack of trust because he's both unprofessional and a prosecutor.
  • I agree with this theory for the most part. However, despite her being "hand-picked", I have to disagree with the points regarding Athena. First up, the murder in question happened eight months after she and Apollo met. Secondly, Apollo seemed quite comfortable in his role as co-council in 5-3, 6 months after they met and 2 months prior to said incident. Third, his suspecting her of said murder actually hurt him emotionally. I won't expound since that's a game that takes place after, but suffice it to say that such a hurt would not exist if he had no trust to be betrayed.

Olga is a prostitute.
When asked what her job is, she replies that it is to provide "services" (but not saying which). She then says "If a customers requests it, I serve EVERYTHING".To make things worse, she throws some lines that can be like "I might accidentally drop some cold food on the costumer's LAP" and that the "food in her restaurant is as warm as the waitresses".Also, her own ROOM is in the restaurant! (called "the hideout")Having in mind that the whole place itself is kind of not legal (hosting illegal poker matches), and she seems to be quite a fragile girl, there is no doubt about this.

Olga Orly is not Russian - she's Ukrainian.
Olga does say she isn't Russian, but it would be strange for a non-Slavic person to have a first name like that. However, if we look at her last name, we can see that a Ukrainian surname of that kind exists, although it is supposed to be pronounced as "or-lie", rather than "Oh, really?". Although there is a surname "Orlik", which would have similar pronounciation ("oh-really-ik").

Apollo was born in 1946 and grew up in the 1950s. He was cryogenically frozen and woke up around 2018.
He often uses terminology such as "hairdo", and "supper", which is pretty outdated by our standards, let alone in 2026. His age when he met Clay is ambiguous, only that it was in middle school, and if he woke up in 2018, he'd be 14, which is 8th-9th grade. Being frozen damaged his memories, so he thinks he is just an orphan born in 2004. As for the Thalassa issue- he is not actually her son, but her uncle or cousin- hence why he still has the Gramarye's ability to perceive. His bracelet actually comes from a different relative, either Magnifi's sibling or his aunt. Thalassa's baby was never seen from again, and Phoenix assumed Apollo was her child because of his genetics and the fact that the age he was when he was unfrozen was really close to the age Thalassa's son would be.As for why he was frozen, it remains unknown- it could have been an accident, or possibly some scientists heard of the Gramaryes' skill, kidnapped and froze him for a time period where they'd have more proper means to study him, and then something went wrong and he escaped.We don't see it in the game, but there are points in time where Apollo will see Klavier and think, "Aw nuts, I really can't stand that Gavin fella's attitude! But gee whiz, he sure is good lookin..."
  • Apollo doesn't give a damn about Klavier, they can't stand each other, why would he care what he looks like? Also, I always assumed it had to do with both growing up in an orphanage and Apollo's desperate attempts to be taken seriously. He's trying to seem older than he really is. Apollo is very, very vain, and unfortunately, he has a boyish face that probably makes him insecure and think nobody will take him seriously. So he compensates by talking like he's older than he really is. Apollo wants to be respected and taken seriously.

Apollo is a graduate of Wammy's House
.He's an orphan (well, not really), is incredibly perceptive like the other Wammy's graduates (albeit in a different way), his name is clearly a fake, and he became a lawyer at 22, younger than Phoenix and Mia, without having to be raised by a Von Karma and/or in Germany, like all the other prodigy lawyers. He was clearly being raised to be the world's greatest detective, but for whatever reason found the courts more interesting, decided to become a lawyer instead, and was disowned by the house. Following on from this, Godot is L (they both love caffeine and have similar hairstyles), Matt Engarde is Mello (both have blonde hair in similar styles, and (spoilers for both Death Note and Justice For All) both are involved in kidnapping, Mello's friend is called Matt, both have large scarring on one side of the face (different sides, admittedly), and both are borderline sociopaths). Gumshoe is Matsuda (they're both policemen who mean well but who aren't the sharpest tools in the shed). And Mikami is...I don't know, but it has to be someone. He is a prosecutor, after all.

Lamiroir's blindness and amnesia were not due to physical damage.
Lamiroir is blind and amnesiac after an accident, but doesn't appear to have any scaring around her head, which lead me to wonder what was going on. Remember how she doesn't want to remember who she is? In certain cases of psychological trauma, people can blank out their memories - and sometimes, they can also force themselves to lose their vision. Lamiroir, when she first appears, isn't just worried about getting her vision and memory back, she's actively stopping her own body from remembering.

During case 4-3, sometime after she is attacked Lamiroir gets to thinking about it. During court, just before she translates for Machi, that's when she decides that she wants to remember. At that point, everything floods back to her... just in time for her to see her son and daughter working together.

But that goes against the game, correct? At the end of 4-3, Phoenix remarks that a doctor examined her and found her blindness was due to an accident? ...But at this point, he knows she's Thalassa Gramarye and is actually playing along with her lies. After all, she's just been in the hospital, so it makes sense that a doctor would see her then. Plus, we all know Phoenix is a bit of a sneaker barsteward at this point.

  • Given that in Case 4-4, there's a rather non sequitur bit of dialogue between the conclusion of the MASON system and the start of the last day of trial, the timeline proposed by this WMG seems to be disproven. To quote: Something inside me... rising... surfacing... Something important... lost long ago... it's close now... so close. Although it's never directly explained, it's quite obvious that's supposed to be Lamiroir on the verge of regaining her memories.

Daryan Crescend
is a member of the smuggling ring from InvestigationsIt's been a while since I played Apollo Justice so please bear with me, but I don't think we ever got to know his motive for smuggling the cocoon out of Borginia other than that "he was a greedy Jerkass" (I'd like to think that Machi's motive for helping him was because of Lamiroir, though). This would explain a lot, especially since the ending for AAI implies that the ring is still alive, except with a new leader.
  • OBJECTION! ::slams desk:: We know full well that his reason for the smuggling was ::close-up, speed lines:: to obtain a cure for the Chief Justice's son!
    • HOLD IT! Who says it can't be both reasons? He needed the cocoon for the Chief Justice's son, but who's to say that he didn't work with the Syndicate to complete his goal?
      • HOLD IT! Where's your evidence that... ::points:: ...anyone other than Crescend and Machi was involved in the smuggling? ::slams desk:: Your only basis for this claim was the apparent lack of motive... ::close-up, speed lines:: ...which has already been proven false!
  • OBJECTION! ::desk slam:: Being a member of the smuggling ring requires that the smuggling ring still exists at the time! However, according to the testimony of one Miles Edgeworth during the closing sequence, with the help of information from Quercus Alba as uncovered in court... ::pointing:: large-scale operations were begun to clean up the ring! Further, he refers to... ::desk slam, close-up, speed lines:: the demise of [the] smuggling ring! That is indisputable testimony that the smuggling ring no longer exists!
    • The ring itself may have been demolished, but it's possible that some of the members slipped through the cracks. Perhaps Daryan was a member of the smuggling ring when he was younger and was planted as a police detective to be The Mole. When the smuggling ring's leader was arrested in Investigations, he lost his ties to the ring and ended up Becoming the Mask and actually living as the Police Detective everybody believed him to be. During Case 4-3, some members of the smuggling ring who escaped contacted him and blackmailed him into smuggling the cocoon by threatening to spill the beans about his past. After all, being a rock star, one would imagine money isn't his motivation for smuggling the cocoon.

The missing characters from the Phoenix arc are the jurors in the last case of Apollo Justice
Phoenix had been planning to set up the jury system for a long time and had to keep his friends uninvolved, since he wanted them to be the jury for the first trial using this system. It's also for this reason that Phoenix refrained from introducing or mentioning them to Apollo. If he just lost one wrong word to them, they'd automatically disqualified for being too involved in the case. Ema, however, still disqualified in the end, because she donated the camera to him, so he replaced her with Thalassa. The other five jurists are Edgeworth, Maya, Pearl, Maggey and Iris. (Not Gumshoe, since he was involved in the trial which started the whole mess).
  • Pearl is too young to be a jurist. You're not legally an adult in Japan until 20 and Pearl would be only 16 at the time of Turnabout Succession. Replace her with Larry Butz.
  • Only lays can be jurors, which means that it couldn't have been Edgeworth. Perhaps Lotta?
  • I was thinking the six jurors were these recurring minor characters: Larry Butz, Adrian Andrews, Will Powers, and Maggey Byrd, along with two people we meet in Apollo Justice, Guy Eldoon and of course, Lamiroir. All of them have pretty mild tempers (except Larry) and good, strong senses of justice (Larry's idiocy aside, he does try to do what's right). I think, to make sure the story in the paper was told and done just so, he got Lotta to do it by giving her additional insider info about the workings in exchange for her help not just getting info in kind about the case, but that the paper would be quickly done (Brushel being a witness would have less time to write it up than Lotta). A deal like that would make Lotta much easier to work with, since she only benefits from it (and I think she'd be compassionate to Phoenix's plight, as she's shown to be sympathetic to people when things are rough). I don't think the higher ups reviewing what he's doing would let Maya in since it's well known that she's a close friend of Phoenix's (Larry is less known as Phoenix's friend and actually more associated with Edgeworth, I think, thanks to both 1-4 and 3-5, not to mention what goes on in Investigations). Her voting would be seen as rather biased. Plus, I think she'd be busy with being, you know, the Master of the Kurain Technique. Phoenix could trust them to vote how he needed them to without problem (as to why there was a split jury, I'd say in the Bad Ending, Lamiroir, Guy, and Adrian were the three that voted "Guilty"). So that's why I think it would be those six.
    • I think that in the "bad" ending, a situation similar to 12 Angry Men occurs on a smaller scale, where Lamiroir's vote causes the 2 other people who voted Guilty to follow suite. But other than that, no objections here.

Kristoph wasn't the one who killed Zak Gramarye
It was the phantom from Dual Destinies. Through all game Kristoph was constantly denying that he killed him, moreover after Phoenix directly questioned him about the murder of Zak Gramarye black locks appeared. The same as the ones which appeared in Athena's mind and she was found not guilty in the end. The only decisive evidence against him was blood card which was lost. But that is actually the whole reason why Kristoph may be not a murderer. Any guy could just swap this card. So my point is that Kristoph indeed was in the place of crime. But he wasn't a murderer. He was just a witness.
  • At the end of case 4-1, when Kristoph is being arrested, it's mentioned that he's "confessed to everything," i. e. to having murdered the victim. Furthermore, when Phoenix goes to visit him in prison, Kristoph never denies having done it.
    • Also, the Black Locks actually

Max Galactica is Apollo's father.
  • He was originally Billy Bob Johns, the most pathetic magician ever. He tried to join Troupe Gramarye in order to improve and become the world's greatest magician. He got too cocky and tried an escape act that seriously injured him, ashamed to see his wife and son ever again he honed his magic to become a stage-magician under a new name, but became a Jerkass to hide the grief of his wife's death and losing track of his son.
    • OBJECTION! Mr. Galactica would have been EIGHT when Apollo was born.
      • Okay, we can officially joss this thanks to Spirit of Justice.

Magnifi Gramarye killed Apollo's father.
Seems like the sort of douchey thing he'd do, although I actually doubt this will turn out to be true, because it simply wouldn't be as dramatic as having the killer be still alive for Apollo to nail in the last case of his arc.
  • That's why we have Spirit Mediums, though. Don't forget, the killer has been dead before, too.
  • Jossed. Really jossed. You couldn’t have be any more wrong.

Apollo's father didn't die in a stage accident - he was murdered.
Apollo's father was, like Thalassa, a magician of some sort who died on stage 11 years before Thalassa's accident. This is the story Zak gives us, which we can presume to be true as far as he knows. However, as this is Ace Attorney, it's high possible it'll be discovered he was murdered when new evidence or testimony is unearthed. Now, it would be a 23 year old case, which would violate the Statute of Limitations by a good few years, but if the Statute of Limitations in the Ace Attorney universe doesn't apply until after it's discovered there was a murder, it's possible the case can still be tried in court (after all, there's no old case where it isn't obvious someone was murdered so it's never come up). That possibility the case can be tried proposed, on to the case itself. I at least like to think that Apollo's father was a master escape artist, rather like the great Harry Houdini himself, and tricks like that can be tampered with. None of the Gramaryes look like they're escape artists, so someone like that would make a spectacular guest performer. However, one of his tricks failed on stage in front of an audience and he drowned (we have not yet had a drowning death yet, either, so that would be interesting). It was chalked up as an accident, a malfunction with the equipment, as escape artists constantly put their lives in danger, and the case was forgotten. However, when renovating the theatre where he died, or outright tearing it down, new evidence is uncovered to suggest he really was murdered, and the immediate suspect is his then-assistant (Thalassa would not be assisting him; Apollo was still a baby at the time, so she was likely off stage watching the show with him), who is arrested and by sheer coincidence, Apollo becomes her attorney. The true killer would not be one of the Gramarye men, before anyone who blames Magnifi or Zak or to a lesser degree Valant for everything that went wrong back then guesses that. Athena would no doubt be key in this case, because her Mood Matrix is good at drawing out forgotten memories. This case would be when Apollo and Trucy learn they're related, once Thalassa turns up as a witness; the truth would be drawn out of her on the stand, when she is forced to admit she was with her son off stage, watching the incident.
  • According to Spirit of Justice, you are technically correct, on the basic idea of it being a murder. It’s just, not quite how you described it. For one, the Mood Matrix isn’t used for the trial on Jove’s death, instead we have the Divination Seance. The person arrested for it was Dhurke, Apollo’s adoptive father, who was not the assistant. Jove died from fire instead from drowning, which is the literal opposite of you said. Thalassa doesn’t appear until a cameo in the epilogue. And Apollo and Trucy still do not know they’re related (although the cameo mentioned earlier suggests that they are told after the events of the game). Long story short, this theory is kind of confirmed. Still a pretty interesting case idea, though.

Why Apollo might not be related to Thalassa and Trucy after all.
I understand that this theory might sound a little ridiculous at first but bear with me as I attempt to explain. First, I would like to lay out all the facts about this case starting with the nature of the power itself. In the conversation between Zak and Phoenix in Case 4 of Apollo Justice during the MASON system, it is mentioned by Zak that the only people who inherited the ability are those who are descended from Magnifi Grammarye. While it’s possible to learn how to read others like Zak, the ability does not compete with those who inherited from Magnifi. Zak then goes on to say that Thalassa herself told him that the perceive ability works because she is able to subconsciously sense tension in others when they tell a lie. When she senses tension in others, she too subconsciously tenses up which causes her bracelet (which is temperature sensitive) to feel tighter on her wrist. This lets her know that someone is lying to her. Without the bracelet, she is unable to notice if she is subconsciously sensing another person’s tension. From there, the next part about perceiving is the combination of both eyesight and exceptional focus. He mentions that the eyesight is a lot like kinetic vision, in that it allows a person to see things slower than they really are. He then makes an off-handed mention that Trucy is able to spot obvious tells instinctively, which is why she does not require a bracelet.

Now, at first glance, that seems to settle the matter entirely. After all, Apollo does have the ability to spot tells and his bracelet does react. That means that he has to be related to Thalassa in order to share her power, right? Well…not exactly. Let’s start with the first part about the bracelet reacting in response to a person’s tells. According to Zak, Apollo’s bracelet should react whenever someone tells him a lie even if he is does not know that they are telling him a lie. In theory, Apollo’s bracelet should have tightened whenever someone lied to him. However, the first time Apollo notices that his bracelet feels tight against his wrist is when he is cross-examining Wesley Stickler in Case 2 of Apollo Justice. He expresses both astonishment and confusion on why his bracelet is reacting. Apollo’s confusion is surprising because that implies that this has never happened to him before. This means that either Apollo has never been around a person who has told a lie to cause his bracelet to tighten (unlikely considering that most people lie more than once per day) or that Apollo’s bracelet never tightened because he was unable to previously detect people’s tells. But this contradicts what Zak said about the bracelet reacting to another person’s tension. A Grammarye tenses up when a person tells them a lie. If Apollo does have the blood of Magnifi Grammarye running through his veins, then he should not be surprised by his bracelet tightening around his wrist because it should have presumably happened to him many times in the past.

Now one inconsistency by itself does not make a theory. But what about two? Lets talk about Dual Destinies for a moment. In Dual Destinies, Apollo suspects Athena murdered Clay at the Space Station when his bracelet reacts to her saying that she had never seen the murder weapon before. He then says that every time she said anything about the case, his bracelet would react forcing him to wear an eye patch to prevent him from seeing any of her tells. Apollo’s claim that blocking off the sight of one of his eye’s makes sense…to a point. Several characters have claimed that whenever Apollo is focusing on a person’s tell, his eyes start “bugging out.” So it makes sense that covering one of his eyes should prevent him from focusing with that eye. The problem with this is that Apollo should still be able to see Athena’s tells...with his other eye.What do I mean by this? Well, if the ability is kinetic vision like Zak said, then Apollo shouldn’t need both eyes to see tells, since it is possible to see something moving with full clarity with only one eye. But apparently, covering only one eye prevents him from spotting her tells. As far as we know, Apollo does not have anything wrong with his left eye that limits his vision. So why is he unable to perceive her tells with only one eye concealed? If Zak’s explanation is correct, Apollo should not be able to prevent his power so easily. Furthermore, Apollo opts to blindfold one of his eyes but then doesn’t remove his bracelet. That puzzles me. In theory, his bracelet should still be tightening in response to the tension she has from (unknowingly) concealing the truth about the knife and the case from him. But he continues to wear it, without even a comment on it feeling tight. It’s not like Apollo cannot remove the bracelet. Filch was able to remove it easy in the Monstrous Turnabout and the flashback of Clay and Apollo from when they were younger shows that Apollo does not have it on. So why continue to wear it in Case 4 if it is just going to serve as a reminder of his current suspicion of Athena and cause him more emotional distress? The only reason I can think of is that somehow closing one of his eyes prevents his bracelet from tightening …which, again, does not make sense since it should tighten regardless of whether Apollo can see the person or not since the bracelet tightens when the liar tenses up.

So now we have two problems. The first is that Apollo’s bracelet seemingly never tightened in the past in response to a person lying and the second is that he seemingly has the ability to turn his power off by obstructing part of his vision even though he should no have control over his bracelet reacting. Both of these issues lead me to believe that Apollo’s perceive ability isn’t the same like Thalassa’s and Trucy’s. To put it in another way, Apollo’s ability isn’t natural like theirs. His is self-taught like Zak’s. That would provide a possible explanation for why his power never worked in the past and why he requires full vision. As for the bracelet reacting, well that could be explained by the first time he notices his bracelet reacting. In the cross-examination with Wesley Stickler and Alita Tiala, Apollo mentions that he is trying to use all his senses to see if he can see the tell. It’s only then when his bracelet reacts. Perhaps Apollo has to be able to see the person clearly in order for him to get his bracelet to react.If you still doubt my words, recall what Zak said about Trucy. Trucy is able to see some tells, even though she does not possess a bracelet because spotting tells has become second nature to her. She was able to see the tells of Phoenix’s opponents in poker and clearly noticed Stickler’s habit of fiddling with the page of his book. It is only some of the harder to see tells that she is unable to find (such as Alita Tiala touching her ring). So while Trucy seems to have the perceive ability naturally, Apollo has to meet several conditions in order to him to perceive. This suggests that Trucy’s power is the real thing while Apollo’s is a weaker, self-taught talent that is dependent on both his bracelet and his eyesight.

Why does any of this matter? Well as far as we know, the evidence that said Apollo was Thalassa’s son was his ability to perceive like a Grammarye and his bracelet. We don’t know what his father looked like so we cannot compare the two of them and Thalassa wouldn’t recognize a child she hasn’t seen in 21 years. But if his power is not like the Grammaryes, then that means the only thing connecting him to them is his bracelet. And Apollo himself never said how he came to acquire the bracelet (the one flashback we have of Apollo from when he was younger is the flashback with Clay. If you look at the left hand, which is the hand the bracelet is always on, the bracelet cannot be seen.) We all merely assumed that Apollo has had the bracelet his entire life since his mother was said to be Thalassa. But if his ability does not come from the Grammaryes and he has not had the bracelet his entire life…then that means that Apollo isn’t Thalassa’s son and Trucy's brother after all.

  • Wow, that's a genuinely interesting and very well-backed theory, and one I certainly never considered. I'd like to offer a few (if slightly flimsy) explanations. I actually thought he put the eye patch on before the trial, and covered that eye because it was the side Athena would be standing on during the trial; he was cutting off his peripheral vision to her. I also found it really odd he only covered one eye (though then again, it would make it hard for him to walk around if he couldn't use both eyes), and this explanation made sense to me. He wasn't cutting off his perception abilities entirely, he was limiting them to about half power. He wasn't allowed to use them in court, after all, so cutting off only one side so that he couldn't see Athena out of the corner of his eye makes a bit of sense. I've also found his not noticing his bracelet tightening odd, though there is a moment or two where Apollo could very well be perceiving without it tightening; Klavier says on first meeting him that Apollo's giving him a very intense look, and Olga makes the same remark herself, saying he's scaring her, while she's lying. The only other times Apollo's gaze is noted as intense is when he's perceiving so it stands to reason that Klavier and Olga were both being perceived at the time, but Apollo's bracelet didn't react or he didn't feel it react. I mean the first time he felt it, he was looking for a sense other than hearing and sight to react to a lie, so it's possible he just never realised his bracelet, whenever it would feel tight, was responding to his body tensing whenever someone lied to or around him. Watches and bracelets that sit tight on the arm sometimes pinch a little, so he might have just brushed it off as that. The ability sits in the eyes, not in touch; the bracelet's just an amplifier for the power, seeing as Trucy doesn't need it and Thalassa and Apollo both can get on with just one of them when they're supposed to be a set. Apollo doesn't have to take it off because it's not an essential part of his ability like the Magatama, just like how Athena doesn't need Widget to use her hearing abilities. He can just tune out the bracelet getting tight, since it seems he has to be feeling for it, but his eyes still see the tells whether he likes it or not. The theory is still exceptional, though, and does make a great deal of sense, considering that Apollo's ability is slightly inconsistent (though no more than Athena's; she says she can't tune out people's emotions, but she has to actually listen for them?)

    • This is the person who came up with the theory. I’m glad you liked the idea. It makes the effort to track down the information worth it. A few responses I would like to add to your comment. Something I forgot to mention in my original post about the eye patch is that it is on Apollo’s right eye. If you look at Day 1 of the Cosmic Turnabout (when the words “Court is Now in Session”), Athena is standing to Apollo’s left. Because Dual Destinies switched the position of the assistants (they always used to be to the right of the attorney in previous installments), Athena is still visible from Apollo’s peripheral view out of his left eye. Like you said, the ability exists in the eyes so he should still be seeing her tells because she is standing right next to him, even if his ability is halved. Unfortunately for me, countering your other point about the bracelet reacting and him tuning it out is practically impossible. Because the writing during that trial segment is purposefully vague to avoid letting the player know of Apollo’s suspicion of Athena, I cannot refute anything you said about the possibility that he is tuning out his bracelet. I can only finish (somewhat lamely) by reiterating my point from my original post that Apollo’s bracelet does not seem to be reacting which is curious because it IS from his point of view. All of the times his bracelet reacted from his point of view (in Dual Destines at least), the screen flashed, the colors inverted, and made a tightening noise. When he uses it in Case 3 (Athena’s pov) and Case 5 (Wright’s pov) the screen does not flicker at all. Since Day 1 of the Cosmic Turnabout never has that effect, it seemed (at least to me) that the bracelet was not reacting at all. But again, it does not come close to being conclusive. Still, I’m glad you like the theory. I recently replayed Apollo Justice and Dual Destinies and came up with this theory after noticing some inconsistencies in the perceive ability. It’s been nagging me for a while so I thought I would put it down and see if anyone would entertain the idea. I mean, I know people that seriously consider the "Damon Gant is Apollo’s Father" theory and that was entirely based around the idea that they have similar concept work, sprites, and that Apollo’s father is unknown. Actually, come to think of it…if Apollo wasn’t related to Thalassa, doesn’t that open the door for Gant to possibly be Apollo’s father? It was said that Thalassa’s first husband died in a stage accident, but if that wasn’t actually Apollo’s dad…hmm, food for thought.
    • Ah! That's right, she's on his left now, isn't she...? You have a point about the Gant theory; seeing as Gant is the same age as her father, it's very unlikely that Thalassa married him (me, I think Apollo's dad, supposing Thalassa is his mum, was an escape artist like Houdini; I'm responsible for that WMG). Back to the theory, though; you're quite right- Apollo's bracelet is incredibly inconsistent (so much so that I think it's more like a Magic Feather than anything) on if it reacts or not. I mean technically, it ought to be going off constantly considering how much perjury goes on and how often the prosecutor doesn't tell the whole truth. But I can't discern what kind of lies it picks up on specifically, because it picks up on full lies (the phantom about the gun-lighter), half-truths (the first time it triggers), and just flat-out misremembering (with Lamiroir), and it's not like the lies are always extreme. Meaning it's either like you said, he's not actually a Gramarye, or the bracelet is little more than a Magic Feather and he doesn't need it but relies on it to the point that he actually misses stuff (or rather, doesn't notice his reaction to the lies) unless he feels it tighten. Regarding the eyepatch, though, I got nothin' yet. Well, I mean it's possible his right eye is stronger, as Apollo is right-handed (considering he wears the big clunky bangle on his left arm where it would make it hard to write, but it also seems to be the left-hand bangle so that might mean nothing), or else he wore it on his right eye as a means to keep his attention focused centre and right, rather than letting his gaze wander left; putting in the effort to force himself to look forward and right rather than naturally doing it as he would with his left eye patched up, possibly as a distraction from Athena lying. Doing this might skew his ability to perceive because he can't focus on their Tells she he's too busy focusing ahead of him. Those seem slightly weak as arguments though.
  • All of the points above are really well thought-out and certainly valid in their own ways, but I didn't see anyone else mention this point. Trucy and Thalassa were always aware of their abilities. Sure, it's stated that both their abilities were natural, and Trucy was able to pick out the tells of poker players to help Wright win all those games, but the fact of the matter is both Trucy and Thalassa were aware of the power they possessed, while Apollo was not. Consider the following:
    • The first point that was brought up was "Apollo's bracelet would have reacted to lies sooner than it did." Consider this. The bracelet Apollo wears is supposed to help him notice when people around him are tense, but to what extent? To someone consciously aware of the power (which you'd have to be to go out of your way to find/make bracelets like Apollo's and Thalassa's), it wouldn't matter how subtle the change was because you'd be paying close attention to your wrists. However, if the change was subtle enough, it could be easily overlooked or masked by different sensations. Even with Apollo being aware of his power, he'll often ask people to repeat themselves before he can confirm they're lying to him, which is noticeable even in Dual Destinies when he would've been at least someone accustomed to his powers. It's very possible that Apollo legitimately wouldn't notice his bracelet tightening when growing up, and only realized that it did so in response to other's nervousness after Trucy told him and he was straining himself to pick up on anything that could help him perceive like Trucy mentioned, and from that point on just paid extra attention to it. Hell, the very fact that Filch was able to snag his bracelet away in case 5-2 can be taken as a sign of Apollo's failure to notice something subtle (or not so subtle) as it does to Filch's prowess at, well, filching. It was mentioned that Apollo's bracelet is inconsistent, but it's entirely possible that what's inconsistent is the degree to which Apollo is noticing/paying attention to his bracelet.
    • It was also mentioned that "Apollo's perception, being akin to kinetic vision, shouldn't be disabled by something as innocuous as an eyepatch". Here's the thing, though. How do we know that the kinetic vision is all that was being disabled? It's mentioned that Apollo's power works like this. Apollo (and others with his power) can subconsciously sense when a person is lying to them because they tense up, which then causes Apollo to tense up, so his bracelet feels tighter around his wrist, and tells him exactly when to focus his perception. Going by that assumption, and also assuming that the key to the Gramarye's power is entirely in the eyes, it's entirely possible that it's this subconscious "picking up" of the other person's tension in the first place is what Apollo was trying to block out. Picking up on the subtle signs of someone being tense without focusing too intently on that person probably requires at least some bit of subconscious focus that may very well require two eyes. Actually, the simple fact that Apollo bothered to cover up his eye at all seems to allude to this rather than it interfering with his "kinetic vision", and here's why. Every time Apollo's used his perception ability, it's been a conscious decision that is stated to take incredible concentration to pull off. In fact, the very function of the bracelet is to tell Apollo when to focus on something to perceive lies, because otherwise trying to focus on every part of the conversation would put too much of a strain on him. I highly doubt that, if he didn't want to consciously perceive Athena, he would've somehow accidentally noticed her tell without wanting to. Sure, wearing an eyepatch seems like overdoing it especially when he can just remove his bracelet, but that was part two of his plan. He wanted to simultaneously block out both his sensing lies and his perception. Even if an eyepatch wouldn't do the latter, as stipulated, how would Apollo know that unless he tried? And with his ability to sense when people were lying also blocked by the eyepatch, how would he know when to try? It's also possible that Apollo's perception itself isn't entirely like kinetic vision and needs two eyes to focus fully, and of course the only two people we've actually heard from are Zak Gramarye, a secondary source who heard everything from his wife, and Apollo himself, who somehow knew that, on some level, the eyepatch would block his ability to perceive. It seems quite mundane to say "we might just not know how it works, fully", but on a fundamental level the explanations we get for Apollo's ability are lacking in complexity.

The MASON System is an attempt to recreate the Little Theif of Yatagarasu for legitimate law use.

The last conversation with Shadi in the Mason System was actually Maya or Pearl channeling him.
Right before it is unlocked, it's acknowledged that in reality he died before Phoenix could get any real answers out of him. The audio of their post-mortem conversation was edited into the Borsh Bowl scenario because Phoenix thought that telling the jury all about spirit mediums would distract them more than leaving clearly impossible interactions in the scenarios.
  • I was more of the opinion that it was a summary of Phoenix's investigation into the Gramaryes, with Shadi as a sounding board. I do concede the possibility of Maya channeling him; after all he broke Mia's Psyche-Locks in 1-2, after she died. And reviewing the script of that "Unlocking", I can see that conversation taking place any time between Shadi's death and Drew's, a period of about 5 months.note  I still think that Phoenix declaring the conversation to be the synthesis of his research would have been less distracting still.

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