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A reminder for editors and viewers: Headscratchers pages are for post-viewing discussions. Spoiler tagging here defeats the purpose of the article. You shouldn't be reading the following entries if you are worried about spoilers.


NOTE: Since Cases 4-1 and 4-4 are heavily linked, no separate folder will be provided for 4-1.

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    In General 
  • Why does gunpowder burn (or, in general, the idea of averaging how far someone was shot from) seem to be distinctly absent throughout this game, despite it being present in previous games? In Turnabout Corner Alita shot Meraktis from quite close range while inside the stand, whereas Wocky was standing quite a ways from him, so an examination of the wound should've been enough to show that Wocky didn't do it. With Magnifi's "murder", he turned out to have shot himself in the forehead, with the barrel probably pressed against his forehead. With that instance it can be argued that gunpowder burn or other such proof wouldn't really be proof of anything since Zak or Valant may have just done it executions style anyway, but it's a little odd it isn't brought up, as it would've made for some pretty good "confirmation evidence" (aka when it's revealed it's suicide, the fact he was shot execution style is brought up as making much more sense now). And for that matter, in Magnifi's crime scene photo, his gunshot wound is completely clean of gunpowder burn, which makes no sense in itself.
  • How was Phoenix allowed to adopt Trucy? He had just lost his job (no income), and was proven to be an Amoral Attorney (bad role model).
    • Trucy was actively positive to have him as her father. That enthusiasm from her probably helped. Plus Phoenix does have experience with looking after a child after their birth parents went away (Pearl, whom he took care of alongside Maya after her mother got arrested), which would've swayed the assessment at least somewhat in his favor. That along with the fact that he didn't have no income. Even before he actually legally went and adopted Trucy, he had already begun to set up the Wright Talent Agency, and begun to push to make an income as a pianist, to provide her a livelihood. Which would've looked pretty good in his assessment, showing a determination to actually support Trucy even after having just lost his job he loved so much. This is on top of the fact that Phoenix has powerful friends in the legal world, who could've helped sway things in his direction as well.
  • Where did Phoenix get the idea to become a piano player, especially if he can't play a lick? Yes, there is a piano in the office (covered in magic supplies), but why would he choose to try and advertise himself as one? Did Trucy persuade him? Was he just that desperate? (This also raises another question... Was Mia also a piano player, or was it simply left in the office?)
    • His piano playing job is just a cover, he is a professional poker player that attracts clients and gambles to the Borscht Bowl Club.
    • He can play a little, so I guess he once took lessons (maybe as a kid) and wasn't that good at it but he thought that would be a good idea for his gambling side job.
  • How could Phoenix be playing piano for 7 years and still be terrible? Surely he must've picked up some techniques along the way or something.
    • Phoenix being a pianist was a front for his poker playing. It's implied numerous times that he would play horribly partly on purpose (or at least that he didn't bother trying to get good), since it would turn interest away from his piano playing, and make his poker career more lucrative as a result.
  • How could Apollo not know Kristoph had a brother? It was stated in 4-4 that Apollo watched Phoenix's last trial at least several time and he definitely took note of Klavier.
    • Didn't he watch it between the two trial days of 4-4? It's implied Apollo didn't know all the details of Phoenix's disbarment up until then, so I doubt he saw the tape earlier. Also, Kristoph probably isn't too forthcoming about his past / family / etc.
  • Considering the fact that Ema Skye's hobbyist forensics are constantly turning up evidence that the actual forensics team completely missed, how did she fail to become a crime scene tech? Hell, you'd think they'd let her in just because she gets better toys from magazines than they get as professionals. "You can be a CSI, but you have to buy your own luminol."
    • Probably as a joke, or...her methods might be considered to be unconventional to the police force.
      • It's explained that she was about to become a crime scene tech, but she failed the examination.
    • Knowing her For Science! attitude towards investigations, it's possible Ema failed the test on procedural grounds. There's no doubt Ema's got talent, but she's gets so eager to play with a new toy that she blows off orders and common sense until she comes down.
    • I thought it had to do with the way she tries to improve on the original procedures or invent her own, which she does in her introductory case. People giving tests generally expect you to do what's in the book, not your own thing. It probably made her come off as careless, even if her ways were more efficient.
    • If I recall, the game actually implies on several occasions (pretty strongly) that, while Ema's undoubtedly good at forensics, and has the mental know-how, she's pretty bad when it comes to practical forensics. Or the very least when it comes to putting practical forensics to new use. When they use the footprint analysis kit, she reads the instructions while going through process, and specifically passes the buck to Apollo. Been a while since I've played the game, but I think I recall the game emphathizing how Ema seemed to make Apollo do it, and didn't seem to want to do it yourself. So it's implied she has quite a bit of trouble actually learning new techniques. Plus, simply being knowledgeable and decently adapted to forensics isn't exactly going to make sure you get in. Honestly, let's be frank here: Ema's main trait when it comes to forensics is her enthusiasm and love for the entire thing. Yes, she's knowledgeable and good at it too, but the main reason she's seen as a forensics centered character is because of how much she loves it, not because of how good she is at it.
    • Word of God has stated that, in one of the cases, the formal investigation was disrupted due to corruption, leading to the inability of an "offiical" forensics team to examine blood evidence in that case. Ema being able to find vital evidence in that particular case was due to the perpetrator thinking that a standard detective wouldn't be doing their own luminol tests.
  • What are Snackoos? Are they savory, are they sweet, are they crunchy, are they chocolate? WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY?!
    • They are fried dough covered in chocolate, that somehow make good projectiles.
    • Technically, they're karintou: sweet crunchy quasi-cylindrical snacks with a strong visual/auditory resemblance to thumb-sized pumpernickel pretzel sticks, though without any white crystals of salt/sugar embedded in the surface. Karintou normally get their caramelized color and taste from dark brown sugar, but apparently there are some versions made with chocolate.
    • I took Snackoos to be different from karintou (you know, like how onigiri sometimes become hamburgers when anime is dubbed over), and thought they were like Twix, but without the caramel and the biscuit bit was chocolate. Even though they more look like small pieces of those jerky sausage things.
  • In a conversation with Ema in 4-2, she mentions that the reason she came back to America to take the exam to become a forensic scientist was that "Mr. Wright and his people" helped her years ago. It makes me wonder who is Ema talking about when she says "his people"? By the time the player gets to 1-5, Maya is already back in Kurain and there doesn't seem to be anyone else working in the Wright & Co Law Offices. So who is she talking about? Gumshoe?
    • Well, given how chummy Phoenix is with Gumshoe and Edgeworth, maybe she meant them? Other than that, I don't have much of an idea either, though.
  • Ema said she returned to Japanifornia because she wanted to repay her debt to Phoenix. It's been nine years. You'd think Lana would have already paid for that. If not, then how does she expect to pay that plus interest? For that matter, how much does everyone owe Phoenix?
    • I don't think she meant "debt" in the monetary sense. Ema feels like she owes him for "saving" Lana. While Lana probably did already pay off any lawyer fees long ago, Ema probably just means she wants to just help Phoenix in some way.
  • Um... So when Apollo "perceives" a witness's tell, why does he inform the witness what their tell is? If he wasn't so stupid as to tip the witness off as to what he's doing, he'd be able to use the same tell over and over again in order to pinpoint he crucial parts of the person's testimonies, while the witness would have no idea how Apollo can see through them. But instead, he just outright tells the witness what their "nervous tick" is, allowing them to hide that particular habit, and forcing Apollo to go through the effort of searching for a new one.
    • He has to tell them something. He's trying to get them nervous and keep them talking. Saying "I think you're lying," would just result in them responding with, "No, I'm not." By describing the tell, he gets them on their defense, hinting that he knows something that they don't want the court to know, which makes them start talking in an effort to answer his offense. He doesn't have evidence, he doesn't have a contradiction, he has to give them SOMETHING for his "You're lying" claim to have any weight at all.
    • The ticks are a subconscious thing, so presumably the witnesses would require a lot of concentration to notice they were doing it and stop. Recall how Lamiroir had her throat-clenching tick pointed out, yet did it again when hiding that Machi knew English.
  • Why do you think Apollo never noticed his ability to catch people lying? He's had that bracelet all his life and surely every now and then he'd feel it randomly tighten around his wrist when talking with someone. After awhile you'd probably start to wonder why and maybe read into the situation a little deeper.
    • It likely either happened rarely enough that Apollo didn't put much thought into it, or he simply had no real reason to put it to use until the start of the game. That, and even if he did notice, going from "Hey, my bracelet randomly tightens sometimes" to "I have magical lie-detecting abilities" would be kind of a leap if he didn't have Phoenix there to point it out to him.

    Where Is Everybody? 
  • In Ace Attorney 4, where did everyone go? Not only is Phoenix left with only Ema — a side character who appeared only once, and that was in the "postscript" game — as support, none of the "old guard" appear in the flashback case... which takes place only two months after the final case of Ace Attorney 3. Would Edgeworth, Maya, Pearl and Gumshoe really just stand back as Nick's life went "boom"? Or was the need to clear the decks for a new cast — and have Phoenix radically altered in terms of personality— just so strong it defied all laws of common sense?
    • The need to clear the decks was really that strong.
    • It should be noted that it's never stated or even implied that Phoenix completely lost contact with them, but they have lives too, Maya has to be watching over Kurain now. Also, Phoenix went through a lot those 7 years, it must have been trying to completely lose your life's work and lose faith in the justice system all at once, and end up working as a poker player in a dive of a restaraunt.
      • In JFA, Maya is revealed to have willingly cut herself off from the outside world for the sake of training. Now that she's the new Master of Kurain, she'd almost be forced to take charge and do so again. She has more willpower than her bubbly personality gives her credit for; it's doubtful that she'd even have heard about it, despite living two hours out of town. However, she's the only one I can think of an excuse for...
      • At one point you can examine a stack of tapes belonging to Phoenix, and the dialogue states that these are "Steel Samurai", "Pink Princess", etc, and that Phoenix is being told to not only watch them but write reports on them. If that isn't Maya staying in contact with Phoenix, I don't know what is.
      • I thought of it as Edgeworth staying in contact with Phoenix. After all, how is an up-and-comming Chief Prosecutor supposed to find time to watch the latest Samurai saga? Conversely, Master of Kurian though she is, how is Maya able to afford that sort of collection?
      • Also during the bits in the past we see, what would his friends be doing? I see no evidence to support the fact he's not hanging out with them in between those scenes, but we don't see that, we see his quest for justice which is more a personal thing and I can understand why he wouldn't bring anyone along for them except maybe Maya who as stated above is busy. Same as in the present, Phoenix is rarely in the office and we never see him when he's not on his "secret mission."
      • This Troper always believed (though a bit romantically) that Phoenix Wright figured something was way off, and so passed along a messege to everyone that they were not to interfere... Or something along those lines.
      • Just because we don't see them doesn't mean they aren't around - the game is from Apollo's perspective and Phoenix isn't exactly forthcoming about his past. Considering the nature of Phoenix's secret mission, I'm sure that Edgeworth was involved behind the scenes. (He was probably a mentor to Klavier too.)
      • Forget his past; Phoenix isn't exactly forthcoming about his present. He pops in for five minutes per case and then takes off again. For all we know, he could be heading out to poker night with Edgeworth, Franzy, Gumshoe, Maya, etc. Apollo doesn't know any of these people and Phoenix doesn't have any reason to go, "Hey, Apollo, did I ever tell you about how my friends and I used to have a joke about the way Larry Butz smells?" Keep in mind: he did manage to get a trial run of a new court system off the ground. That's quite an accomplishment for a disgraced ex-lawyer, but much more feasible for a disgraced ex-lawyer who is well-connected within the prosecutors' office and the police station.
      • It's basically confirmed that Phoenix stayed in contact with Edgeworth, at least, for the whole seven years and occasionally visited him in Europe as of Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney – Dual Destinies. That same game also suggests that Maya keeps in regular contact too, as she sends him a letter in the final case.
      • And Gumshoe was there in trial, ya know.
  • Related to the 'Where did Everybody go' entry above, how come after the flashback case, not ONE person came to Phoenix's aid after he presented false evidence? Especially since Miles Edgeworth had the same thing happen to him just a few years ago? Gumshoe and Edgeworth should have been more than ready to help him clear his name, but he was left out in the cold. Even if they couldn't, you'd think they'd offer him help elsewhere, such as a new job behind the scenes. At the very least, you'd expect Maya would offer a spare bedroom in the Fey Manor... not that that would help much, considering distance and lack of job opportunities out there.
    • Considering it was Kristoph Gavin behind it all, coming up with actual evidence to say that Phoenix wasn't guilty of forging evidence would have been pretty damn hard, even if Edgeworth was on the case, because Kristoph covered his tracks. Then again, he stuffed up later along the line, but that took Phoenix 7 years.
    • Actually, Phoenix states that after he presented the false evidence, the only person who would stand by him as the Bar Association decided his fate was Kristoph Gavin himself. (Talk about keeping your friends close and your enemies closer. Maybe he was trying to throw suspicion off of himself?) Phoenix says that the reason he hung out with Gavin at all is because he trusted him...until the whole "you knew Shadi Smith was bald so you're the murderer!" thing came up.
      • Maybe this is just me, but I read it more as Gavin was the only one on the Bar Association committee who stood up for Phoenix. His friends could certainly have remained loyal while, at the same time, being completely unable to do anything to help him clear his name.
    • To be more precise, the MASON system implies that Phoenix figured Gavin was responsible during his talk with Vera. Problem is, Kristoph couldn't be convicted of forging evidence, because there was no evidence that he commissioned the forged evidence, as the last case of Apollo Justice proved. Well, no conclusive evidence, anyway. He was pretty much guilty in the eyes of the court in that case. He was lucky he was already convicted of a similar crime, because Phoenix changed the entire legal system just to get back at him. Still, kinda proves that nobody from the original cast could have helped Phoenix, not that they needed to, he was able to support himself with the help of Trucy, and got back at Kristoph on his own thanks to his new role as the Chessmaster (with a little help from Apollo, of course).
      • It's also heavily implied that once Phoenix actually lost his badge, he apparently gave up immediately trying to get it back (probably because no one would believe him). Since he wasn't terribly concerned with getting his lawyer credentials back, why would anyone else be? As far as getting him a job, he did get assigned a "secret mission" to overhaul the legal system. Considering he's not even a lawyer, that's a hefty burden; someone is most likely pulling strings behind the scenes.
      • Edgeworth must still have a prominent position - something tells me that he's the one pulling those strings. Compare it to when he 'hires' Franziska and the Judge's brother in order to extend the trial in 3-5 to one more day so that Phoenix has time to recover, investigate the case further and rescue Maya.
      • As was told in Dual Destinies, sometime after Investigations 2, Miles became the Chief Prosecutor. So, he could've helped Phoenix when he possibly learnt of the MASON system.
    • I figured that Phoenix maintained contact with everyone but less than usual lest he accidentally leak information about his secret mission from Edgeworth. Phoenix is the only person Edgeworth could trust to keep quiet and do what needed to be done without too many questions, as well as utilise his connections in England (Layton), to track down Athena Cykes to fix the legal system. They needed to clear Phoenix's name and find Athena to start the overhaul of the legal system. Phoenix was also able to move about freely compared to everyone else Edgeworth knows and have a ready excuse, which is really no more than an excuse since what disbarred lawyer needs to study other legal systems? It was probably complicated to maintain contact with Maya and Pearls due to their training, and unwise to contact Larry except when he was home. He may have maintained contact with Franziska, too, just because she would be an excellent connection to have, being part of Interpol as well as having her own connections in Europe.
      • The only issue here is that it's fairly unclear whether PLxAA is considered canon in the AA timeline, since there are lots of things that seem to contradict the AA timeline, so he may not canonically know Layton at all, and also, Athena is stated as having been studying in Europe. Not specifically England, just a vague 'Europe', so Layton may not have had any idea that someone like Athena even existed. It seems more likely that Edgeworth found Athena while he was studying Europe's legal systems, since it was stated in Dual Destinies that it was something he did.

    Turnabout Corner 
  • Wesley Stickler first testifies that he entered the park from the south and thus, when he shouted at Wocky and Meraktis, the doctor turned his head and was shot in the right temple. Then he says he saw the "NOODLE" sign on the stand and Apollo figures out Stickler was standing on the north side of the park. But after that, Stickler turns everything on its head again when he admits he'd been hiding from Trucy after the panty snatching, and went to enter the park from the south, using the opportunity to grab Plum's bloomers on the way. So which way did he enter the park after all, and on which side of the noodle stand was he standing? Did he just pass between Wocky and Meraktis before he noticed something was going on, prompting him to turn around and shout at them, which only then caused Meraktis to turn his head? Sounds like a rubbish explanation.
  • This has bugged me every since the game first came out. How did that bullet get in the safe? We're never told that. If we go by the 'villains never lie when cornered' logic, then she was threatening him to open the safe with the gun, which, obviously, means the safe was closed when he attacked her. With a little logic you could conceivably create a scenario for which it's possible. Either she went in and immediately fired a warning shot, and the safe just so happened to be open at that time, or he was in his safe at the time and she tried to take him out right then while his back was turned, and it just so happened to miss when he moved. But you'd think if he had just been shot at he'd have more important things on his mind than shutting the safe. And you'd think if that was the case her wording would be something like 'open that safe back up' rather than just 'open the safe.' So how did the bullet get in there? Who knows?
    • It's ever explicitly made clear, but I think it was supposed to be inferred that Meraktis began doing what he was ordered to by Alita, but then he began to figure that she was just using him. When he went to attack her, she probably fired at him, but missed.
  • OK, in the second case of Apollo Justice, Apollo says to Trucy that because of a case of Phoenix's that he read, ("Rise From the Ashes",) he always checks the exhaust pipes of cars, to see if there's anything in there. However, if he knows the case so well, why, when he meets Ema Skye, does he not recognize the name? Even if he doesn't remember that she was a witness, he should at least remember that the defendant for that case was Lana Skye, and make the connection!
    • Maybe he only read the things pertaining to the investigation itself, as a sort of 'How To Find Clues' guide, and didn't pay much attention to the actual people involved. Or he just has a bad memory. Or both.
    • Alternatively, maybe it's just a coincidence that there's a case in a previous game that matches this description, and he's actually referring to something else.
    • Or Ema's name was withheld from the public because she was a minor.
    • Or Ema's name is ultimately irrelevant to the case and thus didn't leave much of an imprint in Apollo's mind. He read the case. He never said he memorized every detail of it.
  • In case 2, one of the big twists is that the murderer shot from inside the noodle stand. Yet wouldn't this have left a bullet hole in the front side of the noodle stand?. They spend so much time debating where the murderer must've stood to kill the doctor, yet (when factoring in the entry wound) it should've been clear before the trial even began!
    • The killer probably slid the gun through the curtain at the front of the stand, then fired. Wocky wouldn't have seen that, the doctor's head would have been in the way.
  • In Turnabout Corner, why doesn't Dr. Pal Meraktis bother verifying if Alita Tiala is really dead? He's a doctor, and I assume he would be able to tell the difference between a corpse and an unconscious person.
    • It was mentioned during the trial that he was so panicked that he didn't bother to actually check her pulse.
    • Also, he has a sign in front of his clinic that says "Three shots for the price of one!". Doesn't sound like a guy who really went through medical school.
      • Presumably he is at least fairly competent, seeing as how his mob clients hadn't shot him yet. Though one wonders why he didn't just tell them the problem and try and point them in the direction of someone who might be able to help him. The Kitakis didn't seem stupid enough to expect one doctor to be able to do everything. Well, maybe Wocky, but not his parents.
      • Directing them to another doctor would run the risk of that doctor becoming the doctor who saved Wocky's life when Dr. Meraktis could not, resulting in immense feelings of gratitude towards the new doctor. There's a decent enough chance that the new doctor would become the new family doctor, undoing all the work that Dr. Meraktis has put into obtaining his mob clientele. It's not a certainty, but it's enough of a possibility that Dr. Meraktis wasn't willing to take that chance. Instead, by letting Wocky die, Dr. Meraktis would have been able to obtain the family's gratitude for saving Wocky's life, while also having enough time to invent a new reason for why Wocky died, such as heart failure or a terminal illness.
  • Why did Alita hire Apollo? Yes, we know her stated reason: she wanted Wocky to be found guilty and thought Apollo was incompetent. But consider these facts: 1) Either due to misunderstanding or desired G-cred, Wocky was already admitting to the crime. 2) According to the first game, most defense attorneys don't take clients that they believe are guilty. 3) Also according to the first game, such a client would be given to a state-appointed attorney, which is practically equivalent to an automatic guilty verdict. Basically, she could have sat around and done nothing and he would have been found guilty anyway, and she would have saved money in the process. Or did she think the Kitakis would have otherwise hired a corrupt attorney to rig the trial in his favor?
    • Exactly, if she hadn't acted then the Kitakis themselves would have gone and got a competent attorney for their son, she couldn't just do nothing.
    • Also, the only reason that a state-appointed attorney was considered an automatic guilty verdict in the first game was because Redd White would have made sure Phoenix got the worst attorney possible. Perhaps Alita thought Apollo would be less competent than a public defender.
  • In Case 4-2, it is established that the reason the Kitakis are going clean is because they need money for Wocky's operation. However, they didn't even KNOW that Wocky still had the bullet inside him until the check-up a couple of days before the trial! How is it possible, therefore, for their business to do a complete u-turn (and gradually) to pay for an operation when they have only known about it for a couple of days, particularly since the motive of [Alita Tiala's marriage is to get her hands on the wealth the Kitakis are aquiring after going clean, and that happened 6 months ago?
    • Odds are that they knew, but couldn't hide this knowledge from Wocky when the results of the checkup (most likely done to see if anything else was wrong) came out.
      • It may be hard to find a surgeon who can handle a case like that (and take time to come up with enough clean money to pay for it), but you'd think that they would have gotten the operation much earlier if they had known. On the other hand, while this may contradict some in-game dialogue, it's possible that they went clean because of the injury itself ("the gangster life did this to you") and the need for clean money just reinforced that decision.
      • While the Kitakis did not know that the bullet was still in Wocky's heart, they DID know that he'd been shot and almost died because of gangstering. They probably considered that reminder that Wocky could be murdered any day now without warning to be a reason to change lifestyles.
    • Kitakis already have access to a lot of money. But it's dirty money. They won't suddenly get more wealth by going clean and in fact something quite contrary is implied, the reason is that the huge surgery price is to be paid to a non-mafia aligned doctor/clinic, and if Kitakis can't document legal sources of cash for that, they're going to be instantly busted by taxmen unless they also run money laundering operations. On the other hand, chances are they can use the dirty money right now and count on tax year ending after their bakery taking off, or something. As for Alita, she craves a nice life, so dirty money being dirty is not an issue.
      • No, the in-game dialogue clearly indicates that the reason they want to use clean money is because it's tainted with the "gangster life style" which is what caused Wocky to get shot in the first place. This doesn't seem to have anything to do with it. The most likely, and even canon for that matter, explanation is simply, as stated above, that the situation caused them to want to want to change their ways. We're not just talking about their son getting shot here. He had that bullet still inside him that could cause him to drop dead any any second, due to malpractice from a doctor with ties to crime-syndicate, who only committed malpractice because of his fear over their ties to the criminal world. It's really not a stretch at all that something like that would be enough of a punch to make them want to change their lifestyle.
  • This may be a bit picky, but something bugged me when we met Eldoon. The guy says that he used to serve Phoenix and his assistant 'back in his lawyer days,' but then later, during the investigation, he reveals that he's only been doing the noodle stand thing for, what, a year? Unless he's using the MASON System to time-travel like a salt-broth-wielding Time Lord, I think not.
    • I thought he said Phoenix frequented his father's shop.
  • How exactly was Alita Tiala's gold-digging scheme supposed to work? Suppose she marries Wocky and he dies shortly thereafter. Okay, so... she gets nothing substantial, because the family's wealth belongs to his parents. Maybe he has a bank account that his allowance goes into or some kind of trust fund, but shouldn't most of what the family owns (that they have a legal title to at all) belong to the parents? Unless she was planning on killing Winfred and Plum after the wedding - or thought that they would adopt her as their daughter and heir after Wocky died - this doesn't seem like it would work. Was she planning on just walking off with stuff after he died, knowing that they'd be afraid to take her to court over it since they'd have to explain to a judge where everything came from if they did?
    • Well, if everything had gone to plan, she would have married him and would have become a Kitaki. Most likely, when he died, she would still be a Kitaki. Remember, if the plan had gone well, the Kitakis would have thought that she was just an innocent girl who loved a doomed man, I doubt they'd kick her out. All that would have remained would be to wait for her "parents" to die of old age, and she'd have all the money
    • She was banking hard on the power of sympathy. Mob boss's son gets married to a beautiful young girl, only to tragically die very shortly after the ceremony? All of their grief and regret would translate into sympathy towards their son's widow, who would be set for life.
  • Why did Alita Tiala confess to breaking and entering into the clinic during the investigation in court? Apollo says, "confessing to the small crime to avoid the big one, eh," but there's no reason that confessing to that helped. I can see why the culprit had a hard time avoiding confessing to being a bitch fiancee since that had already been proven, but confessing to the breaking and entering didn't appear to be necessary and didn't help explain anything suspicious that had been brought up yet. My only guess is that the culprit expected that Apollo would figure out who was responsible for breaking and entering and figured it was better to beat him to it.
    • I kind of figured that she admitted to breaking and entering just to back herself up if Apollo had come up with a weaker argument. She could have used something like "I just tried to steal the medical charts for Wocky's sake," as I think she mentioned something like being concerned about Wocky even after everyone realized she was a bitch fiancee. Or she probably thought that Apollo would just back down if she admitted to the breaking and entering.
  • In Case 2, why did Dr. Meraktis put the gun in the back of the noodle stand with Alita's body? There would be no reason to put it in the back. If he wanted to dump it in the river, then why wouldn't he carry it on his person?
    • Owning a gun is illegal in Japan for most people (thus the Ace Attorney universe also), and it's pretty bad news to be found carrying one around. Given he was already doing something as highly suspicious as dragging around a noodle stand at night, if he was stopped by the police and they found his gun on him, at best he'd be in deep trouble for that, and at worst it'd make them suspicious enough to check the stand itself.

    Turnabout Serenade 
  • In case 4-3, the stage tower is said at first to be 30 feet, then 20, and finally 15. Why the inconsistency?
    • Because the tower could move up and down, presumably.
  • In Apollo Justice case 3 (Turnabout Seranade) the characters regularly reaffirm that the murder weapon, a 45mm revolver, is so powerful that it would dislocate the shoulder of an adult of average build. How is it then, that someone as small as Machi is the prime suspect, when it should be pretty obvious that if he had fired the gun, the recoil would have done a lot more damage to damage to him?
    • Everyone reaffirms just as often, if not more so, that an experienced shooter can easily go away unscathed. Thus, the Judge assumed that Machi was experienced, as he was the only one who could have conceivably committed the crime. What baffles me is that I'm the only one to notice this.
      • I noticed that as well, but I can't convince myself that experience would be worth anything whatsoever when the attacker has the body of a child. Even the real killer gets injured by using the weapon, and he's a fully trained and experienced member of the police.
    • Additionally, Prosecutor Gavin notes that the authorities want a suspect to be found and prosecuted quickly, due to the high-profile nature of the incident. He's aware that there are logical flaws in the case, but he isn't being given the time to investigate properly.
    • Ahm, what about the fact that to even get the gun in the first place, tiny Machi would have to wrestle it away from a highly trained Interpol agent that easily dwarfs him?
    • Also, Machi would have to bring the dead body of this Interpol agent on the stage, all by himself, in maybe 15 minutes. This Interpol agent was probably three time his size. How did they explain that?
      • Like someone said, the case is so high profile that the D.A.s are putting pressure on the cops and prosecutor's office to find and prosecute a suspect as soon as possible. The case has numerous logical flaws, as Gavin knows, but his bosses are rushing things too much to allow a full investigation. Since Machi is too scared to tell his side, the best Gavin can do is try to push Apollo to find the truth in the trial itself. Such politically-motivated railroading isn't without precedent in real life.
      • You'd think they'd try harder though. What looks worse - taking longer to find a suspect, or going ahead with a trial in which an 14 year old boy is being accused of killing a grown man three times his size? That's just asking to get your case thrown out. Politically motivated rail-roading generally involves an upside to the rail-roader.
      • Also, as a bit of fridge logic, think about the actual outcome of the case. "The D.A. pressured the police and prosecutors to find out who killed an Interpol agent, so they quickly placed blame on an fourteen-year-old child who was believed to be legally blind. During the trial, though, a well-foreheaded defense attorney proved that it was in fact a full-grown fully-trained member of the police force who committed the crime and also used the child as an accomplice in committing another crime that broke international accords and was politically motivated as far as the Chief Justice's office, and was the best friend and bandmate of the prosecutor who accused the child." Would you have any faith in your police force after reading that?
    • Word of God says that the case was written based on the assumption that Daryan was the one manipulating the investigation and the police but that ultimately they failed to make this clear in the game.
    • As has already been stated, the thing that everyone seems to misconstrue about this case is the fact that the characters "ignore" the issue with the gun as though Apollo doesn't think to bring it up, and everyone everyone is also conveniently ignoring the problem. That isn't the case. The trial proceedings progress under the assumption that, because Machi is the only possible culprit, he must be experienced with a gun. As has been pointed out, the judge basically says this several times, but people still seem to misconstrue it has "everyone's ignoring the issue", when it's really a case of "everyone's already silently put the issue to rest". Apollo has no proof that Machi isn't experienced with firearms, Machi can't prove it himself, and Klavier can just counter any argument that he's a kid and his shoulder should be damaged with "he's a strange foreign kid we know nothing about he could have plenty of firearms training". Plus by three quarters of the way through the first trial day, it's also been shown that Interpol is involved (and the ID left is, at first, thought to belong to the killer), and at that point, the assumption then becomes that Machi isn't just some "scared foreign kid", but has some sort of big secret, such as that he's an Interpol agent. I don't get why people make such stink about the issue with the gun being "ignored", when the game constantly makes it obvious that they're not just "ignoring" the issue. The issue just keeps becoming more and more of a non-issue with each new revelation that pops up.
  • In case 4-3, Apollo says that Lamirior couldn't have been Daryan's accomplice because the signal for the headset couldn't reach her when she was on top of the tower. But it's already been established that it was Valant on top of the tower, and Lamirior was moving through the vent. Why doesn't anyone mention this?
    • Most likely because there was a very narrow window of time that Lamiroir was actually in the vent. Sure, Daryan may have known she was there (or at least that there was some time that Lamiroir was off stage), but he'd still have to get her at just the right time. It's just much simpler to assume that the accomplice was Machi all along; or it just didn't occur to anyone until later.
    • It was actually the remote switch that Apollo was referring to, not the headset. Lamiroir couldn't have been the accomplice because the remote signal just couldn't reach the guitar's igniter from where she was standing relative to when the igniter activated; while the stage's tower was raised.
  • Why did Daryan confess in 4-3? Apollo's entire strategy was to call on a key witness, Machi Tobaye. If Machi testified in that court that he would smuggle a cocoon away from Borginia, then he could avoid both death penalties in US/Japan as well as Borginia. By itself, it makes sense. But Daryan's entire strategy was to say Lamiroir was lying. What stops him from simply saying Machi is lying as well? It would be easier to accuse Machi of lying than Lamiroir of lying. Any rational person would choose no death penalty over death penalty. Daryan was actually right in saying only decisive evidence could prove Apollo's case.
    • My guess is that they left other evidence behind them. By getting Machi to testify, Apollo could probably have him explain exactly how the cocoon was obtained, how he got in contact with Daryan, and point the police to any other people who were involved in the smuggling, plus any sort of paper trail that Daryan left behind. This cumulative evidence could then be used to get a conviction.
    • But Machi WAS decisive! He was a confirmed cocoon smuggler. In Borginia, cocoon smuggling is punishable by death. That is what the problem was. Machi only smuggled and helped destroy the contraband; he didn't kill anyone, so the only crime he could be charged with was smuggling. However, the penalties for this smuggling differed: "US" was jail time, Borgina was death. Daryan's plan wasn't just to say that Lamiroir was lying, but that Machi wouldn't name him as the murderer and accomplice because of Machi's fear of being executed. What Apollo did was that he convinced Machi to confess and serve his sentence in "the US" rather than stay silent and be extradited for execution. The defendant, in this situation, would confess and name the murderer to not get the death penalty.
    • Adding on to what the troper right above me said: the only piece of evidence that corroborated Machi's testimony was the burnt guitar, which had traces of the cocoon in it. Of the two, Daryan is the only one who could have plausibly put the cocoon in the guitar. Had Machi not testified, the guitar would have been dropped as a moot point in favor of convicting Machi, since Borginia is very serious about smuggling, Daryan would have testified against Machi. Therefore, Machi confessed so the only crime he committed was burning the evidence IN THE UNITED STATES (or Japan, or Japanifornia, whatever), so he would not face criminal charges in Borginia. Really, it came down to who would confess first, and Machi won, because if Daryan testified, he'd be admitting to murder, too.
  • Why is Romein so cryptic about who the witness is? She has a name, there was no need for all that 'siren' business.
    • My best guess is that he was too weak to actually state her name. Now, I've never heard "Lamiroir" pronounced in real life, but it looks like it could take a great bit of effort for a man that got shot with a Hand Cannon and was seconds away from death to actually say. On the other hand, "siren" could be whispered with very little effort.
    • Plus, Lamiroir's name literally is "siren". Romein had supposedly learned English as a second language, so it's possible he reverted back to his native tongue as his brain functions ceased.
    • The really confusing bit about that is that he names Lamiroir, when it would make a lot more sense to name Daryan.
      • He clearly said he didn't know who shot him.
      • Where exactly did he say it? I've just played through the whole game and don't remember such a moment. On the contrary, Daryan would've had no reason to even murder an Interpol agent unless he was discovered, and even the Ace Attorney wiki says that's what happened - Romein found Daryan out and confronted him about the smuggling during Lamiroir's performance, so Daryan had to wrestle the gun from him, shoot him and cover it all up on the spot, including the unfortunate burning of the cocoon.
    • Not to mention, to add to the likelihood of the above explanations being correct, he specifically muttered out, "the witness is siren", not "the witness is THE siren". Plus he clearly struggles to even get the "ren" of "siren" out, so there's no way he would've been able to just say straight out that the witness is Lamiroir.
  • Isn't Lamiroir meant to be a native "English" speaker? If that's the case, why was she unable to find a better term for the ventilation shaft grate than 'some kind of small window?'
    • She woke up in Borginia with no memory of her past and magical knowledge of a language. There are bigger problems conceptually than her not knowing one English term.
    • But I've seen a documentary about a man who suddenly lost all memories of his own identity but could still speak English. That I can believe. What I can't believe is that the bullet would remove memory of one term from her brain but leave the rest intact.
      • Memory loss comes in various forms and it is possible to forget only one thing or person while remembering everything else.
      • The obvious answer would be that that wasn't the only word she forgot, just the only one that came up in conversation.
      • My understanding was that the amnesia from her accident coupled with ending up in Borginia made Borginian her "native tongue," and English her "second" language. A bit farfetched, yes, but this is Ace Attorney we're talking about.
      • She says that she doesn't know how she came to know English, so it is her "first" language.
      • What if Borginian was her first language anyway, and English her second? We don't know anything about her prior to her career with Troupe Gramayre. She could have been a Borginian immigrant anyway, in which case it would make sense that she'd default to Borginian when she wakes up with no memory, surrounded by people speaking Borginian.
      • Revelations in "Turnabout Successor" render that line of inquiry a dead end.
      • Maybe she just didn't know what a ventilation shaft was? It is a pretty common thing, but I wouldn't put it past a native English speaker to be unfamiliar of that particular term.
    • Also consider that she had signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement regarding her "teleportation" trick, and indicating that she had traveled through the ventilation tunnels might have given away too many details about the trick.
      • Uh, it's not just one term she could not remember. She was also unable to name the grate as the place she heard it from, even though it would not have revealed the trick. In fact, it is possible to interpret it as a mild case of dysnomia.
    • I'm a native French speaker, but I spend all my time either on English forums or listening to English shows, and I often fumble with words in my native tongue that I know in English but can't remember in french until someone guesses right based on my description. And before someone asks, yes, I am otherwise entirely natural-sounding, there's just some words that I know I know but can't recall on the spot. I'd say Lamiroir doing the same can be excused considering she learned Borginian and probably wasn't exposed to English frequently.
    • As someone who takes repair requests for public housing, you'd be very surprised how many native English speakers don't know/recall the words for basic building structures, including ventilation shafts and air-vents. Granted, the people I talk to are normally stressed out because the grate is falling or the exhaust fan isn't working, but Lamiroir was probably in a significantly more stressful situation than someone with a moldy bathroom and was revealed to have pre-existing brain damage and memory issues (which I can't conclusively claim for most of the people who call me).
    • There is a zone of the brain that deals with linguistics. A direct trauma there can make you forget entire languages. It could be that the bullet scratched that part enough to make her forget about half of what she knew about English, and being in Borginia she had no easy way to learn it back.
  • So if the Borginian Cocoon Daryan smuggled over was burned, and there's super-strict export laws on them...are we to assume the Chief Justice's son died of incuritis after the case?
    • I guess so, unless the case highlighted the ridiculousness of the Borginian cocoon laws enough for people to get really incensed about it to the point where Borginian law was forced to change, or there was residue left in Gavin's guitar case that retained the healing properties.
    • Alternatively to the above theory, Borginia could have simply sent over some of the already-created remedy. It's been a while since I played, but I'm pretty sure that would work, even if they'd be a bit reluctant to do so.
    • Yes. Not everyone gets to have a happy ending all the time.
    • Or had the Chief Justice's son flown to Borginia for the treatment.
  • It's a casual thing to suggest asking the Borginian government to give a cocoon up to test residue from burning it, but completely impossible for a major politician to ask for one when the news shows he has legitimate need.
    • Who says the Borginians "gave up" a cocoon? They could have burned it while it was in Borginia. Then, they could have either sent the residue (if the residue cannot be used to make the poison) or described it in detail.
  • If the cocoons can't leave Borginia, what exactly stops the victims from going to Borginia for treatment?
    • I think that there's nothing to stop it, but it's because of that there are so few people outside Borginia who know the power of the cocoon. Lamiroir doesn't know why it was banned for smuggling outside of the country when she's supposedly citizen of Borginia; if a citizen doesn't know much, what do you expect of foreigners?
      • So no doctor would know?
      • A doctor would, but John Q. Averageguy wouldn't. Also, even if the doctor mentioned it, Borginia is supposedly somewhere in northern Europe, so perhaps not a lot of people would be able to afford going there. Finally, it's mentioned that the minister's son is the first case of incuritis in America - perhaps it was only diagnosed in a later stage and they can't move the minister's son anymore, therefore requiring someone to get the cocoon to him.
    • In addition to the public being generally clueless about the cocoons, we don't know much about incuritis. Perhaps incuritis afflicts the body so badly that leaving the country has a chance of mortality around the same as the doctors deciding to have a competition of "who can knock off the most body parts with an oxygen tank".
  • Case 4-3. You prove that the pianist is playing with only one hand by using the video. However, Klavier, who would know the sheet music well, says that it would be possible to play the song with only one hand, meaning the part in question does not have to have both hands playing at that part, making it impossible to conclusively say that he pressed the switch at that moment. Klavier realizes that the bass clef portion is missing only after the video is presented as evidence, which is illogical since he should have known that it was missing while listening to the playback unless the part pointed out only has the treble clef portion playing. Since there apparently is only one hand playing during the part in question, there is no proof that the pianist did press the switch.
    • First off, it's the top part (treble clef) that's missing. Second, he very easily could have been paying close attention that time. As for 'knowing the sheet music', from the dialogue it seemed to me that the piano part was supposed to be improvised, and Klavier gave Machi directions to play "in the background" or something; so he didn't know specifically what Machi would play (and remember Lamiroir wrote the music, not Klavier). The basic point, I think, is that the feel of the music, as it were, clearly drops out at the point for no reason, especially put into context of the same spot earlier.
  • Wait a minute. Aside from Klavier, the Gavinners weren't performing during Lamiroir's big number, right? So how did none of themnote  hear the gunshots during her performance? The song was sedate, and their dressing room was next door!
    • It's possible that they were watching the performance instead of hanging out in the dressing room. Hey, it's a once-in-a-lifetime occurence and I'd want to stick around to see it too. Although, if that's the case, why did none of them think Daryan's absence would be odd?
    • Not too sure about this, but who says the Gavinners weren't performing during Lamiroir's big number? Maybe what they meant in the games texts is that they weren't on the spotlight, but if you think about it... During the "Guilty Love" performance shown in the mix machine there are five instruments playing (main guitar (Gavin), second guitar (Daryan), bass, synth, and drums). In Lamiroir's performance there are five instruments as well (Gavin, Lamiroir, Machi, bass and drums). Assuming that bass and drums in Lamiroir's performance are the same people that in Guilty Love (why would you hire random people if it can be perfectly be played by them?) that would leave only Daryan and Synth guy as suspects. But Synth guy didn't show up during any part of the case.
      • I recall Gavin mentioning that his bass player and drummer took part in act 2 in one of his dialogues, so I guess that confirms it.
  • Apollo finds a switch in the piano. It ignites a device under the couch in the dressing room, most likely to trigger a few small explosives. Yet we're meant to believe that Machi left the switch in the piano after using it to ignite the cocoon (and guitar). He pressed it during Lamiroir's song. Yet the explosives went off during the Gavinners' next set. Huh?
    • Machi left it in the piano presumably because he didn't have any other place to leave it in, and could be well carrying it with him, and the explosives that went off during Gavinner's next set were activated by Daryan himself when he heard Ema and Apollo talking just next to the dressing room Letouse was in, to create the alibi.
      • Yes, but that leaves a hole. The switch in the piano activated the device that set off the explosives. This was shown when you practically burned Ema. And where Machi was playing, the switch's range could reach both devices, so it can't be universal without setting them off in the second set. So... maybe the one in the piano was Daryan's? Why would he leave it there?
    • How about this: The explosives weren't set until after Machi had first pressed the switch - Daryan could have waited shortly after telling Machi to push the switch to put the second igniter in place. He would have been able to see the second igniter fire to see that that had happened. As to what happened to the switch, why could Machi have not kept it with him until such a time as the body was moved, which also gives a perfect opportunity to put the switch into the piano?
    • But I thought that pressing the switch blew up the cocoon. That happened during the second set, when Klavier's guitar caught fire. Aside from firecrackers being used as gunshots, what explosives were there in the third set?
    • Personally, I always thought that the real reason Daryan missed his mark was because he speed-pressed the button, NOT because his arm was injured. It would make sense...
      • In which case, he could just drop the switch off in the piano after the performance. He probably picked it up from there too, telling Machi to keep it in the piano; he could even have used the victim's headset to monitor the scene, knowing when to set the firecrackers off
  • In Case 3, why does nobody think it odd that Machi is discovered unresponsive, apparently unconscious, beside a body he'd likely have never been able to move on his own, certainly not in the time he had available? At least, given his scramble to get away from the body when he walks in on Apollo, it's highly unlikely that he'd have just lain there waiting for the hammer to fall, no matter what his co-conspirator said, so Daryan probably needed to subdue him - not difficult, but certainly conspicuous!
    • Well, at the time the body was discovered nobody had known that Daryan was involved, and they were too busy trying to find the body to pay much attention to what Daryan was doing, probably. Though I still have no idea why this didn't occur to anyone later on in the case...
  • Why didn't Daryan ever try to defend himself by saying something along the lines of "you can't prove when the firecrackers went off?" Yeah, we know who has an alibi for which time period and that bangs were heard during both the second and third sets. You'd think Daryan (and maybe Klavier) would have insisted that there wasn't enough proof regarding which noises were fake and which were real.
    • Given how Romein was shot in the shoulder and apparently took quite a while to actually die, you could argue that he had to have shot during the second act, or else he'd have a better chance of living (as he'd be discovered right after being shot and could get medical attention). And if he had to have been shot in the second act in order to die during the third act, then Daryan trying to make something up about the fireworks wouldn't have worked out.
  • This is very minor, but still bugs me a little... Is there any reason that Romein LeTouse's profile in the Court Record is named simply "LeTouse"? The first time you meet him, his profile description even says "First name: Romein", but why is he the only character ever whose profile isn't named after his full name?
    • It's assumed the court-record is written by the lawyers themselves, so it's likely that Apollo just couldn't be bothered to remember his full name and instead put the first name as a note in the profile. Since Apollo seemed to not recall his name when he found the body this is likely. ...Although, granted, it's a weird reason to actually put this as thing in the profile. I guess it's just an example of the developers having a joke with the fact the profiles are written by Apollo.
  • In case 4-3, why didn't Lamiroir ever just say "the window I'm talking about is on the ceiling"? I get that she got mixed up with how you refer to the ventilation shaft, and everyone thought she was referring to the the actual window due to her misunderstanding of the English terms, but surely she would have therefore thought there were two windows at the scene, the actual window and the grate. So she should have at least known that they were getting confused between the two and tried to clarify by saying the window she's talking about it on the ceiling, or something similar. In fact, since everyone seemed to be saying she couldn't have heard the voices through the window, despite the "window" clearly letting sound through it, you'd think she'd have had the common sense to put two and two together and go "I'm referring to the window on the ceiling with slits to let sound through, not the one made of glass that was shut", or something similar. She doesn't clarify which window she was talking about until Apollo asks her. Which in a normal court could be seen as realistic considering the "you don't ask, you won't know" saying does actually apply to realistic cross-examining, but that doesn't apply in the Ace Attorney courtroom.
    • Maybe she just assumed everyone would put two and two together sooner than they did, since it was obvious to her what she meant, or... Lamiroir might have had a hard time keeping up with the trial. Sure, she knows English and she's considerably more fluent than Machi, but the speed at which everyone was going may caused her to miss some things.
    • Actually, it's inferred that Lamiroir had been assuming that everyone was talking about the air vent. The point was that Lamiroir thought Klavier knew how she performed her trick (and that since everyone was just casually agreeing with him, she may have also assumed that everyone else had been informed before the trial or something). She thought he would know she was crawling through the ventilation system even if everyone else didn't. She says that she had been highly confused as to why Klavier kept insisting that she couldn't hear the voice due to the "window" being closed, despite it obviously letting sound through. If you notice whenever Klavier brings this point up to her in the first trial day, she does act pretty confused, but Klavier constantly cuts her off with some comment or another about how she's obviously not a viable witness before she has a chance to say anything about it. Also a little later on, Klavier realizes that Valant didn't tell him how the trick was performed, and gets irate over it, since if he had known, the entire misunderstanding wouldn't have happened. The bottom line is that Lamiroir had been confused as to why everyone was so casually insisting that the air vent wouldn't let sound through if it was closed, but wasn't ever given a chance to ask, or was maybe just too confused to know how to bring the issue up.
      Lamiroir: I admit it's had me confused since yesterday. Yes the "small window" was closed, but why does that mean I could not hear a voice through it? I had feared that our prosecutor might himself need an interpreter.
  • The entire thing in 4-3 about Machi and Lamiroir faking being blind and being sighted? First of all, unless you're Daredevil you simply cannot successfully pretend to be sighted while really being blind. That's not even close to feasible. Not to mention that it makes no sense for Machi to have to pretend to be blind for fickin' marketing reasons.
    • To answer your question of how, it's not that complicated. Lamiroir's staff knew about her condition so they were able to plan her publicity events and her concert rehearsals accordingly. In addition to that, she always had Machi at her side, giving her signals about surrounding. To answer the why, by the time Lamiroir's record label had learned she was blind they had already built up the image of her being a landscape painter. So to avoid bad publicity they made Machi pretend to be blind because it was the most convenient solution. Lamirior herself admitted that she thought the whole thing was silly but she went along with it because it was in her contract.
  • Are the igniters really just so light that Klavier didn't feel it inside his guitar? I feel like he must have noticed the extra weight.
    • When Ema shows the igniter from the dressing room, she says that it's so small her and the police overlooked it until now. Therefore I imagine that it wouldn't have made much of a difference in terms of weight.
  • The Chief Justice obviously knew that Borginian Cocoons had a cure for Incuritis. It's highly illegal to take the cocoons out of Borginia. So why doesn't the Chief Justice just fly his son to Borginia and cure him there? He's the Chief Justice, I'm sure he'd be able to afford it, and get the resources for such a thing.
  • So I'm surprised no one's brought this up yet. Throughout the episode, a big deal is made about the lyrics of Guitar's Serenade matching the events of the crim to the point where it's characters constantly reiterate that there's no way it could be a coincidence. Then you find out the reason the killer did it: to make cement their alibi , by reversing the order of the "bullet" and the "fire" on purpose. But...it turns out that it really WAS just a coincidence. Daryan and Machi's smuggling operation just happened to match the lyrics of the song. Now my problem isn't with the fact that "it really was a coincidence after all" was the ultimate answer to the mystery behind the "song prediction" (although given how much they constantly empathise "it can't be a coincidence" it seems like a tacky "twist" to throw onto it). My problem is that if it was a coincidence how the hell does any of that stuff about reversing the song order make sense, and why is it never explained that Apollo was wrong about that? I guess you can just assume that Apollo was wrong, and people know he's wrong now, and no one bothers bringing it up, but the way it's presented makes it seem like they were trying to imply that Apollo's logic wasn't wrong and Daryan somehow did both. Namely that he carried out the smuggling op unaware that it was mimicking the lyrics, but also purposefully shot Le Touse before commanding Machi to press the switch. How does that make any sense?
  • Related to the above: even before it's made apparent that the "song prediction" was a coincidence, no one stops to consider the fact that there's no proof that Daryan said "press the switch" specifically before he shot Le Touse. To my memory, Lamiroir never specifies that Daryan speaking came after the shooting. I mean sure, they could have easily just asked her, but it's strange that no one takes five seconds out of their time to ask Lamiroir if the gunshots or "press the switch" came first.
  • When we learn that the actual killing went down in act 2 of the concert, why didn't it occur to us that when we entered the Lamiroir's changing room, Le Touse was still alive? If he was alive that long of a time period, why didn't he cry for help when Daryan fled the room?

    Turnabout Trump/Succession 

People vs Enigmar (And subsequent Investigations in the Past)

  • Why was a dying cancer patient even allowed to keep a loaded gun he could use to shot himself in his hospital room? Yes, it's a one of his stage prop, not a "proper gun", but obviously it's fully capable of firing real shots, and it was loaded. Either the hospital staff didn't bother checking the gun out at all or they did but didn't do anything about it. Either way, the hospital should be sued to kingdom come for gross negligence that lead to Magnifi's suicide.
  • Why did Magnifi commit suicide-by-gunshot in the most backwards, illogical way possible? The gun's barrels are rather large, it would be difficult to commit suicide by shooting yourself in the forehead with it, when all he had to do was shot himself in the temple. In fact, doing it that way ended up leading to the misconception that either Zak or Valant shot him, as per his instructions to shot him "square in the forehead". Why in the world would he do that?
    • I personally interpreted Magnifi as a vindictive bastard using his own suicide to get justice for his daughter. I could not figure out from the case whether or not he knew his daughter survived and hid it from the boys, but he either thought one of them killed his daughter or thought one of them almost killed his daughter, and hid the fact of her survival (if he knew) and blackmailed them to extract the 'due consequences' for attempted murder (or murder as he believed) of his daughter- since he couldn't prosecute against them without killing the name of Troupe Gramayre. With his last act, I see him seeking justice for Thalassa- since at the time no one knew who shot him, he decided to commit assisted suicide, find his worthy successor, and set things up to chance such that, similar to the 'chance' of the culprit that took his daughter's life away, 'chance' and worthiness of behavior would decide which of the men would be in prison for attempted murder of Magnifi's person (which could be prosecuted, unlike Thalassa's). I think even if he committed suicide like planned, if one of them had fallen for it and shot him like he set it up, Magnifi would still have his "justice"- and either way both of his disciples would be investigated as they should have been and Magnifi would go out with a literal bang.
  • On another note, I am quite suspicious of Apollo's dad's death. Was it really truly only an accident?
    • Answered in Spirit of Justice: No, but he didn't die on stage, either. Brushel was probably mistaken.
  • I suppose this is more of a general inquiry, but how does Zak manage to escape the courthouse? Yes, Trucy did her trick with Mr. Hat to get the bailiff chasing the wrong person, but is it seriously THAT easy to get away? Once he shook the bailiff he was home free, with not a single other law enforcement officer on the premises? I mean, if it was that easy all along then why even go through with the trial at all? If he didn't want to be declared innocent because it would put Valant at risk of being arrested then why not just run before the trial even began?
    • To be fair, the bailiff, Meekins to be specific, was not prepared for what was going on, and he couldn't have known that Trucy would able to be able to pull off a stunt like that. The better question is how Zak managed to seemingly "vanish" from the courtroom itself in the first place. Especially since Meekins specifically says that he came running out through the doors.
  • This is something that's confused me for quite a while about the flashback case. Zak shoots a gun off in a hospital, and yet he has time to chat with Magnifi for ten minutes without anyone coming to investigate? I wouldn't buy that the guns are silences, both because they're used in a stage show, and it's specifically said something to the effect of, "It appeared Magnifi was sleeping, but even if he wasn't the shot would have woken him up anyway." Which implies that it makes a sound like a real gun when it fires. Is everyone deaf in the hospital?
    • Since it's for a stageshow the gun wouldn't need to be very high caliber, and shooting it point blank into a plushie or a head *would* act as a sort of silencer, so it could theoretically be able to make a noise loud enough to wake up someone only a foot or two a way yet quiet enough that it might not immediately register as a gunshot to someone not expecting it. More importantly though, it's not uncommon for some types of hospitals not to be staffed 24/7 in Japan, and in the original Japanese that's heavily implied to be the case here. If anyone DID hear the gunshot it was someone half a wing away who likely couldn't investigate even if they wanted to.
  • Why didn't Zak just show Phoenix the actual diary page in the first place? Think of all the misery that would have prevented.
    • Misplaced loyalty towards his friend, perhaps?
    • He's a massive jerk? He possibly shoots his wife, steals his partner's future, rejects a perfectly competent defense attorney because he can't play poker, abandons his child, promising to come back but never does, and then when he shows up 7 years latter, not to see his child or apologize, but to play poker! That he cheats at! Gah! What a jerk!
      • You are quite adept at taking things out of context and twisting facts. 1. Zak (possibly) shoots his wife on accident and regrets it. 2. He inherited the magic techniques from Magnifi; it's not his fault his partner is basically screwed without them. 3. Zak's "competent defense attorney" is a terrible human being, which he discovered through poker. 4. Zak would have gone to Trucy had he not been killed. 5. He shows up seven years later mainly to ensure Trucy's inheritance of Magnifi's techniques. Poker was secondary. You've got a point about him abandoning Trucy, but that's it.
      • It's not his fault. Understanding his words is a two step process. Step 1: read up on these six comics courtesy of Gigi Digi/hiimdaisy.
    • Agreed that he is a massive jerk. Leaving the major plot related stuff that was mentioned aside, in which there are circumstantial excuses for his behavior, he hires a phony card dealer to bring down the career of the guy who he got disbarred and is raising his daughter when said circumstances made Zak abandon Trucy, and when the phony card dealer messes up, goes to beat her up HITTING HER NECK WITH A BOTTLE OF WINE SO HARD SHE GOES UNCONSCIOUS. His good friend the reporter, he punches every so often (and more often in the beginning of their friendship). Oh, and why does Zak decide to try to wreck the (second) career of the guy he entrusted his daughter to and is taking good care of Trucy (and whom Zak was involved in wrecking Phoenix Wright's first career out of self preservation and bad circumstances)? Because he can't stand losing. That's it. This is the guy who he wrecked the career of and whose current career directly puts food on the table and clothes on the back of Zak's daughter. He's such a sore loser that he does that. Even if you all explain away his behavior otherwise in regards to the case, he's still a massive jerk who assaults and physically takes out his frustrations on the people around him. That said, I agree with the absent mindedness below (also the lack of time to explain afterwards since reappearing would have been dangerous for him.) During would have spoiled the "trick".
SPOILERS WITHIN. Step 2: Consider that due to Memetic Mutation, this interpretation is often considered canon. Or at least hilarious.
  • It's not his fault that he completely ignored context and canon in favor of a memetic, yet wrong, interpretation of events? Right.
  • Well... 1. He hides the fact that his wife is either dead or missing (depending on how much he knew) from the authorities and his daughter, possibly abandoning her in the middle of a foreign country blind and with no memory. 2. That's fair, especially since Magnifi wanted Valant to continue as Zak's assistant. 3. Definitely true. 4. Zak was specifically planning to go back into hiding for good; he essentially gave his will to Phoenix to make sure Trucy got the rights to Magnifi's magic after Zak was permanently declared dead. 5. True. And of course, there's him hiding the real evidence and having his daughter aide him in running away from authorities in order to protect the reputation of someone who was pretty clearly trying to frame him for murder, therefore letting Phoenix's career go down the crapper without even sticking around to explain that Phoenix couldn't possibly have had the time to set up the forgery in the first place since they'd just met the day before and he hadn't given Phoenix access to the diary in the first place, then left his 8 year old in the care of the guy who just lost his job. Not to mention punching his friend when he speaks too much and violently assaulting his partner when his trick fails (through no fault of hers, as it turned out). Zak was kind of a giant douche.
  • Being a jerk is one thing, but having no sense of self-preservation is another.
    • Sometimes, if you want to pull off truly awe-inspiring feats of douchebaggery, you need to put your life on the line. Zak was probably thinking, "Hmmm... yes, showing him this diary page could save my life. But would it help me reach the highest levels of jerkdom?"
    • To answer my own question, it was because if showing that page failed to clear him, then it would be entered into evidence and he would have to make his escape without it, so Trucy would lose all chance of ever inheriting Magnifi's tricks.
    • That doesn't really make sense, though. The contents of the page would be on the record and copied into multiple case files — of a rather high-profile case! — so there would be no doubt that Zak inherited Magnifi's tricks, and thus that Zak's later assignment of the rights to Trucy was valid.
    • I think it is because the page would've been decisive evidence against Zak. Think about it. Zak is on trial for a murder that he didn't commit, and the missing page from the diary that Magnifi had labelled Zak as his heir. It's a perfect motive for murder. There was no way Phoenix Wright could win the case and discover the truth even with the true page. That is why Phoenix decided the Jurist System was needed and made it a seven-year mission.
    • If the prosecution argued that Zak's motive was to kill Magnifi for his inheritance, Phoenix could had easily argued that if that was the case, then he wouldn't have stolen the page that named him as Magnifi's heir, as that would defeat the purpose of killing him in the first place. Not to mention that Magnifi was on his deathbed, so why would Zak commit murder and risk prison when he could just wait a little longer?
    • IIRC, he said he didn't show Phoenix the diary page because he was too focused on planning his escape and it didn't occur to him. So not jerkassery, just absent-mindedness.
  • Zak didn't want to show the page, because it would case automatic suspicion onto Valant, who had tampered with the crime scene trying to frame Zak. It is implied that one of the reasons Zak chose Phoenix over Kristoph (other than the obvious fact that Kristoph was a sociopath) is that Phoenix was good hearted enough to be used as a patsy so he would be able to keep Valant out of jail and have an adoptive father to raise Trucy. Basically, Zak got his cake and got to eat it too, at Phoenix's (and Trucy's) expense, and karma caught up to him in the end.
    • Funny, I thought that Zak was killed by a wine bottle, not taser shock or excessive whipping.
    • A grape juice bottle, you mean. Yes, it's legitimately grape juice, it's a in-joke to do with the series creator's favorite drink, and had nothing to do with censorship of any kind.
  • To be fair, Zak didn't know about the fake diary page. In his mind, he believed that Phoenix would be unable to convict Valant and then he would escape. Phoenix would come out more-or-less fine (at least reputation-wise) and Valant wouldn't be locked up for something that he didn't do. (Or maybe he figured that Phoenix could show that Valant altered the scene but that Magnifi did, in fact, kill himself, getting them both cleared, with the escape as just a backup). On the other hand, he could probably tell that Kristoph would forge evidence to get Zak acquitted and Valant convicted (which, you know, he did).
  • I always thought that the real douchebag was Magnifi. He made his apprentices think that they had killed his daughter. He apparently made the same daughter abandon her child (maybe even her husband if he really isn't dead). He didn't think that making both of his apprentices think that they were getting his will was enough, so he also killed himself just to frame the rejected apprentice of murdering him.
  • I didn't think that Zak was really a bad person, he did make some bad choices, but he wasn't evil. About the matters of his wife and Valant, he was manipulated by Magnifi. And for not choosing Kristoph because of a poker match, it does not really say but a popular headcanon is that he averted him cheating.
  • He didn't want Valant to be suspected. Who would you rather choose, your defense attorney or your partner of years, and best friend? I should think the answer is obvious.
  • Speaking of jerks, what is with everyone in the flashback trial of Zak? Did Phoenix, Klavier, and Gumshoe all take jackass pills that morning? Phoenix is unusually condescending towards Klavier, Klavier is being much more cocky than normal, and Gumshoe is being unprecedentedly arrogant towards Phoenix.
    • Phoenix has every right to be cocky. He just beat Dahlia Hawthorne and Godot, closing the book on one of the biggest unfinished parts of his life in the process and finally surpassed his mentor as well. Plus, Klavier was a complete greenhorn. For the first time, Phoenix wasn't going up against some super-experienced prosecutor (yes, Godot had never prosecuted before, but he was by no means a newbie). Of course Phoenix would be a little cocky. Regarding Klavier, he's a seventeen-year-old rock star who managed to pass the bar. That's three years before Miles Edgeworth, who was famous for being a prosecuting prodigy. If he was acting humble, I'd declare that some pretty gross Character Derailment. As for Gumshoe... okay, I don't really have an explanation. Maybe he got a raise after State v. Iris and it went to his head?
      • Regarding the last one, Investigations takes place between the third game and this one, and it provides plenty of evidence that Gumshoe's salary continued to do nothing but plummet. Of course, that was made after this game. Perhaps the second installment will shed more light on things?
      • Edgeworth does give Gumshoe a raise in Investigations 2, which could be used to retroactively explain Gumshoe's behavior during the trial.
      • While you have a point about Phoenix, you'd think that defeating Manfred, who had a 40-year win streak, solving a 15-year-old murder case, and taking down Gant, all in his first year as a lawyer would have given him a pretty big ego boost when Justice for All rolled around. So... maybe him being arrogant in the 4-4 flashback isn't as out of character as we thought, but still a bit so.
      • His mood after beating Manfred and Gant was probably dampened considerably by the belief his best friend he had dedicated his life to helping just killed himself. His ego boost in the flashback trial isn't just from winning case 3-5, it's from him effectively closing every last plot thread of his life up until that point.
      • Phoenix might have every right to be somewhat cocky, but that doesn't make it in-character. Furthermore, he says multiple times that there's "no substitute for experience," when the entire trilogy is him defeating prosecutors with far more experience than him. He defeated Manfred von Karma, who had 40 years of experience, in his fourth month as a defense attorney, and now he's acting like it's impossible for a new prosecutor, in a system where the prosecution is greatly favored, to defeat an attorney that's been around for just three years and gets by mainly through bluffing and luck. This is just a few months after Phoenix was impersonated, humiliated, and only won because the killer was an idiot that described the murder weapon in detail in front of the entire court. He doesn't even defeat Dahlia himself; that's Mia's trash-talking doing the work.
    • Phoenix has taken on plenty of prodigy prosecutors during his time, namely Edgeworth, Godot, and the von Karmas who are all presumably better than Klavier (and more experienced when Phoenix faced them). He's confident in his skills and I think mentions that Klavier is just the new "prodigy" that the prosecution office is selling. As stated, Klavier is a rock star who just got his first hit and is getting his ego boosted further by the fact that the prosecutor's office is praising him as a prodigy and putting him against Wright, probably the best defense attorney in the "US." Gumshoe didn't seem that cocky to me but rather more playfully edging Wright on. Wright is his rival in the courtroom (although they have worked on the same side many times) and Gumshoe wants to get his win.
      • I agree that Gumshoe wasn't malicious here, though he was perhaps a bit overconfident—but that's hardly unprecedented for him. Gumshoe tends to lean more sympathetically with Wright on cases where he knows the people involved personally (such as Maggey or Maya), but that isn't the case here. Gumshoe didn't have any reason to think this case would have any lasting consequences for anyone he knew—Wright had barely met his client last night—so Gumshoe only saw this as a repercussion-free chance to prove his competence to one of the best attorneys he knew and, if possible, be on the winning side for once. Unfortunately, this happened to be the case where Phoenix lost his badge and Gumshoe was undoubtedly heartbroken once he realized that he had played any part in it, even if we as the player never got to see it on-screen.
    • As for Klavier, I think that the "tip" he got gave him explains his behavior pretty well.
Kristoph: "The attorney who'll be there in my place tomorrow is not to be trusted. Don't even give him the benefit of your respect."
  • That does seem to be the case, especially since Klavier is shown to have become a lawyer for pretty much the same reasons Phoenix and Apollo did - an interest in the truth. Small wonder he'd show zero respect to someone he thought was forging evidence.
  • In flashback case, why didn't Phoenix bring up the fact that he couldn't possibly have had the time to have a forgery made in time for the case, and suggest a search for the real client?
    • Because it would be impossible to prove that. The reason Kristoph was so confident that no-one could work out that he was Shadi's previous lawyer is that attorneys are registered the day before the trial. And Shadi's testimony would be useless, because being the defendant, he had reason to lie.
    • It probably wouldn't have done him any good anyway. Whether he knew the evidence was forged or not, it was an irresponsible act to introduce it as evidence when his full knowledge of its provenance was "A girl in a magician's costume handed it to me in the hallway", one that would cost a real-world lawyer his license for sure.
      • If you'll recall 1-5's evidence handbook for the Ace Attorney world, the evidence couldn't be submitted without proof that it was in some way relevant to the case; where the evidence is obtained is not important. The first rule that the Police Department must approve it is often subverted in the series. (I'm just going to say it: this is Ace Attorney we're talking about.) The fact that Klavier had proof that the evidence was forged was just unlucky for Phoenix.
  • When you present the nail polish to Vera, her lock breaks with her saying "I promised I wouldn't tell". She doesn't, so why does the lock break, showing she's ready to tell her secret when she isn't? Considering her personality, those locks should have been black.
    • Kristoph's black Psyche-locks are mentioned as having a great deal of cold despair about them. Vera hasn't developed anywhere near that level of hopelessness.
    • She promised she wouldn't tell anyone what her good-luck charm was, because doing so would spoil the charm.
    • There are plenty of times in games 2 and 3 of the Phoenix Wright Trilogy when people's psyche-locks break without the person actually revealing everything, or when people with much more to hide than 12 year old Vera did have psyche-locks that aren't black.
    • Dual Destinies explains the black psyche locks: Red locks are a secret the person is hiding intentionally, black locks are ones they've hidden deep inside their hearts and aren't meaning to conceal. Since Vera was consciously hiding info about the nail polish, naturally the locks would be red.
    • Also, Black Psychelocks are stated to cause permanent damage to the person that has them, if unlocked. Vera is hurt because the secret she promised to keep was revealed, but just that. Kristoph, on the other hand, has Black Psychelocks because he's tremendously jealous of Phoenix (and can't admit it), and he goes completely nuts when he realizes he was given his ultimate defeat... and realizes Phoenix is indeed better than him.
  • I know that the real reason was to Hand Wave the Stupidity Is the Only Option moment, but was there really a plausible reason to refuse to accept Magnifi's diary itself? There was a perfectly solid case to be made out of "the next page was ripped out, and said page could very well provide a motive or at least refute the current theory" without ever needing for Phoenix to claim to have it without checking its validity first. It's likely that Klavier said it to bait the trap, but Phoenix couldn't have appealed to the judge to allow it?
    • At this point, the diary was the decisive evidence in Klavier's favor. It would have been useless to just say that "a page has been ripped out," because Klavier could easily counter that by saying there's no way to prove when the page was torn out, or what it was torn out for. The only way Phoenix could swing it back his way was by showing decisive evidence of his own, basically, "what was on that torn diary page."
      • Klavier's argument was basically "this is the last thing he wrote, and the fact that it's the last thing he wrote speaks volumes". When you consider that the most obvious thing to write would be the recipient of the rights, and that at that point in the case, both magicians would have equal motive depending on what happened at that meeting, the fact that the page couldn't be found wouldn't establish either one's guilt.
      • No, if the last page couldn't be found, regardless of whether it was ripped out or not, Zak would be the only suspect, since it couldn't be proven that Magnifi was alive when Valant came over.
      • Even then, with the crime scene being heavily tampered thanks to Valant... wouldn't a request for further investigation be feasible? It's clear there was next to no investigation prior to the trial...
  • How did Vera reproduce the diary page exactly, down to the torn side which Phoenix calls "a perfect match" to the tear in Magnifi's diary? It's pretty hard to rip a straight line down a piece of paper, let alone copy an uneven, random one in a diary you've never seen before.
    • Kristoph presumably showed her either the diary itself or a photograph of it. I think she even says that she was given the diary. She could have used scissors to reproduce the cut's exact shape, or made some kind of outline of it. In any case, it's implied that she's a prodigy.
    • She used the high-tech equipment on the opposite side of her father's studio (microscopes, rulers, etc) to reproduce the evidence, as well as all the other forged artworks.
  • Please tell me I'm not the only one that has thought about this. Phoenix presents forged evidence without being aware of his crime and loses his attorney's badge. Edgeworth presented forged evidence without being aware of his crime in SL-9, three years before the events of Rise from the Ashes, and his crime is overlooked. Okay, this may be due to bias toward prosecutors or something in the Ace Attorney-verse, and Edgeworth did nearly kill himself over his mistake. Still, what am I missing here?
    • Manfred von Karma did the same thing. So yeah, bias towards prosecutors pretty much sums it up.
    • Keep in mind that the two situations weren't quite the same. Lana testified that the forged evidence was secretly used, and it's possible that Gant did the same, after he was arrested. Thus, there was something backing up Edgeworth's word that he was entirely unwitting. In the case of the diary page, there really wasn't much of a way for Phoenix to prove he didn't forge it. The only people able to verify that he was only hired the day before and thus wouldn't have had time to prepare it are Phoenix himself, Zak, and Kristoph. Obviously Phoenix and Zak's words would be discounted, because they'd have reason to lie. Kristoph, as we find out, wouldn't help because he wanted to get Phoenix disbarred. And while Trucy could say about how she was given the diary page, it's probable her word would be dismissed because of her age and because the defendant's her father, giving her also a reason to lie. Keep in mind that Phoenix apparently is able to re-apply to get his badge back after it was proven that he was tricked into using the false evidence.
  • Something that has bugged me the whole inheriting of Magnifi Gramarye's rights to his magic tricks. I get that Maginfi intended to give the rights to Zak after all, which is why he had Zak come in first before Valant. Now the thing that bugs me: if Zak performed the correct action (which is to shoot the clown in the head), what happens if Valant did the same thing Zak does? Does he inherit half of the rights? Or does Maginfi be a jerk and say "Only Zak gets them.."
    • Magnifi was pretty clear that Zak would have first dibs; only if Zak refused would Valant even have a chance.
    • Valant was screwed either way simply due to the fact that Zak came first. Even if he had gotten the chance to do Magnifi's "test", it wouldn't have mattered; Magnifi being a jerk and saying "Only Zak gets them" is basically what happened anyway, if I'm remembering it right. And if Zak had done it "wrong," then Magnifi's dead and it doesn't matter anyway.
    • Valant would have gotten the rights if Zak didn't show up at all, or if he showed up and didn't shoot anything.
  • Uh, why does Phoenix forget what rifling marks are? Zak has to explain to him how they work during the 4-4 flashback. But rifling marks were a completely pivotal part of Case 1-4, which is arguably (besides maybe 2-4 and probably 3-5) the most important case of Phoenix's life. In fact, why do any of the lawyers have to explain to any other lawyers what rifling marks are? That seems like really basic lawyer knowledge, right?
    • Weren't rifling marks referred to as ''ballistic markings" during case 1-4? It's possible Phoenix was a little thrown off by the use of another name to refer to them, either that or he was just asking as a generic question, as in rather then his inquiry meaning "what are rifling marks?" it instead meant something like "The rifling marks? What about them?". Plus I don't think rifling marks are ever explained to a lawyer. In case 1-4, Maya is the one who asks what they are, then in 4-2, Trucy asks what they are and Apollo explains it to her.
    • It's either the alternate term, or it's simply for the sake of the player, since they may not have played a previous Ace Attorney game.
  • Why does nobody ever bother to check the handwriting of the letter requesting the forged diary page? One little check would be all the evidence needed to prove that Kristoph requested the forgery, and then Phoenix wouldn't need to become a jerkish criminal hobo for seven years to get revenge.
    • You mean the letter that's been residing at Drew Studio for 7 years and we only see the handwriting of when Apollo comes investigating Misham's death? There are several problems with that. First: Phoenix never gained access to it during the past. Second: Ema's 'X-Ray Analyser' was needed to see through the the envelope, which I'm fairly sure she says is new . Third: Even if he did somehow manage to see it, how on earth would that prove anything at that point? There's no guarantee he knows what Kristoph's handwriting looks like to begin with, and even if he did, what could he do with that information? Go to the Bar Association committee and submit that the only man who voted against his disbarment was actually the one responsible? Even if Phoenix brings them the actual letter, all Kristoph has to do to deny the accusation is say that when Phoenix forged the diary (which the Bar Association already believe him to have done) he obviously had this forged as a backup plan. Or he could just say nothing at all and let them infer that. Kristoph was never officially registered on the trial, so in the eyes of the committee would have no motive.
      • Except if the police were competent in the slightest (even by Ace Attorney standards), they would arrest Drew Misham and search his studio after he confessed to forgery. I never said Phoenix should have checked the handwriting. And the police wouldn't need to see through the envelope with an X-ray machine if they just... opened it. And since Drew takes his requests by mail, there's no way Phoenix could have planted the letter.
People vs Wright (Turnabout Trump)
  • After recently replaying case 1 I have to say that Phoenix's case for his innocence doesn't point towards Kristoph nor any less toward himself, and the only reason he gets off is because it's Winston prosecuting. As Phoenix himself said to Apollo, don't think there's only one way of interpreting the evidence. Let's assume that Phoenix is guilty:
    • To start off, Phoenix blatantly admits to a crime and this is completely overlooked. Either the trump card is fake, making the evidence a forgery, or it's real, and Phoenix admitted to removing said card from the scene and giving it to his daughter. Real or fake, Phoenix talks about said fifth ace both as if it's a fake (only the REAL killer who took the card from the scene would know it's a fake) and as if it's real (I took the card and gave it to my daughter)
      • He doesn't actually lie once though. He's just making a subtle non-distinction with his wording. He's saying that he's taken the card and given it to his daughter, which is true. He didn't say he took it from the crime scene, and never actually calls it the missing ace. This actually mirrors something that happens in the fourth episode, when Phoenix produces a "forged" version of Kristoph's mail, but Apollo distinctly notes that it was simply Phoenix's replication of the mail. They weren't passing it off as the actual evidence. This is the exact same thing, except that Phoenix never directly makes the distinction, he just lets everyone, including Apollo, fall into the misconception. Depending on how good of a defense you can put up (aka how good your lawyer is), this can legitimately be enough of a defense against Phoenix having, legally, done anything wrong, not just in the wacko world of video game law, but even real life. Obviously there's a very big difference between morality and legality, which is why, morally speaking, Phoenix's actions are cast into doubt, even by Apollo himself. And this is also why Phoenix just up and admits "I forged evidence" after the trial, because morally speaking, that's what it still is. Morality doesn't run on technicalities, but legal ramifications often do (which Klavier, ironically, mentions to Kristoph later in the game).
    • Second, let's look at Kristoph's knowledge that he shouldn't have, each of which could be explained. Phoenix claims that Kristoph couldn't have seen Shadi's bald head because of the moved cupboard, but AFTER the killer was done the cupboard was moved BACK, meaning he could have seen Shadi's bald head until Phoenix came in and placed the hat on Shadi's head. And if Kristoph was watching through the window it would explain why he mixed up what color deck they were using.
      • The assumption is that Phoenix walked into the room immediately after the real killer left. If you think about it'd make sense. Kristoph had the length of a standard generic "I need the cops here" call to the police (remember that Phoenix's call was apparently vague and short enough for people to mistakenly assume he was calling to report the murder, rather the Olga's assault) to do everything at the scene, which is something like a few minutes, tops. I'd be surprised if Phoenix hadn't walked into the room literally the second after the cupboard had been moved back into place. Also, this conflicts with what Kristoph was saying anyway, as he said he saw Phoenix there holding the bottle
      • But there even being a "real killer" is just an assumption in this hypothetical scenario. What Phoenix presents in court is basically just his own words, a theory if you will, but he frames and phrases it in a way that makes the admittedly flimsy evidence he has on hand seem like it's supporting his case 100%.
    • Lastly, let's look at Phoenix's movements. First of all, he has a motive, in that some 'random' guy came in to defame him and ruin his reputation with a planted card. Now maybe at first Phoenix was concerned about Olga and called the cops for her sake, but perhaps then he got murderously angry after that and went through the secret tunnel to attack Shadi, who wouldn't have seen it coming. Again, this ties in with where Kristoph supposedly was. Phoenix leaves the room to call the police, then shortly afterwards someone goes through the tunnel and kills Shadi, then Phoenix comes back down, making it wholly possible for Phoenix to have done the deed. Based on the way you look at it, Phoenix doesn't look any less guilty than Kristoph does and, as said above, it's only because he wasn't dealing with a powerhouse prosecutor like Von Karma or Edgeworth that he got away with such a flimsy case.
      • The entire issue with the bottles being swapped sort of nullifies this though, does it not? Phoenix wouldn't purposefully swap the bottle for one with his own incriminating prints on it, and especially not when he already knows that the card is inside the real weapon (which could be later used as proof that the bottles were swapped). Even if he, for some reason, decided to do that, he would've taken the card out first.
      • Unless, of course, Phoenix is a criminal mastermind who decided to set Kristoph up and so purposefully swapped the bottles to throw everyone off. As it was already stated, there is no hard, decisive evidence proving Kristoph's guilt, and a competent prosecutor should've been able to see that and give our protagonist hell. This results in what feels like could be a final case turning into a tutorial case that's over before you know it and basically hinges on Kristoph losing his temper and admitting guilt.
  • Why was the 5th ace taken? Logically speaking, would it have changed anything about the prosecutions case other than Phoenix's location when he did the deed? In fact it would make him look worse, because he'd have planned on sneak attacking him, which is worse than just doing it on the spur of the moment.
    • I'd say panic. Kristoph was already in a rather compromising situation in case Zak decided to talk about the case that got Phoenix disbarred, so he had to kill him there to stop his reputation from being tarnished. But then he realized some blood dropped on an ace, so he hastily swapped cards, not realising there were two decks with different colors on the back (which is the real problem in this situation), and left.
    • Because it cuts out the hidden passageway from the case and removes the possibility of someone else having done the deed. Kristoph is basically counting on keeping the room isolated to make someone inside that room be the guilty party.
  • One thing I've never understood is why Phoenix took Shadi's locket. I suppose it might have interfered with the whole transfer of rights thing if it was found out who Shadi really was, but apparently just not having a successful trial was enough for it to be fine, so with Shadi already dead he obviously can't be charged with anything.
    • In my head-canon, just because it had a picture of his daughter. Emotional value, nothing more. Plus Shadi had already proved to
  • Whatever happened to the (real) fifth ace that the killer stole from the scene and Phoenix had forged?
    • Given who it was, I assume he'd burn it, or something similar so it would never be found.
  • How was it that no-one recognised Zak Gramarye apart from Phoenix and Kristoph, when he used to be famous?
    • He was wearing a hat? Marilyn Monroe and Christopher Reeve as Clark Kent also prove that if you can completely change your composure, pulling off a disguise with very little in the way of an actual disguise is completely doable.
    • But any composure change would have been nullified by the fact that he was dead when the police arrived.
    • It's been 7 years. He's lost his hair, grown a beard, no doubt has several more wrinkles, and isn't wearing his rather distinctive magician's outfit. That last being a big point, too, I'd say: As Zak Gramarye, he was a 6'+ tall man in a pink silk hat and cape...it's really likely that that nobody would have recognised him out of costume even when he wasn't deliberately presenting himself as a different person, who was 7 years older and balder than when last seen.
    • On a related note, given that Zak was the defendant in an earlier case, the police had to have taken his fingerprints for their records—if they had cross-checked "Shadi Smiths's" fingerprints, they would have been able to identify him instantly.
  • I'm surprised that such a blatant contradiction hasn't come up yet. So, Zak decides to not hire Kristoph. Why? Because he's able to see his "true nature" through poker, or at least during the game. Fair enough, considering all the rest I'm supposed to buy in Apollo Justice, that's pretty dang logical. Yet, when Zak plays Phoenix years later, after Phoenix has been disbarred and shamed because of the sole fact that Zak wouldn't even bother to TELL Phoenix that he had the last page of Magnifi's diary, what does he do? HE CHEATS. So, what was that you were saying about "true nature" Zak, you hypocrite?
    • Yeah, Zak is a jerk, we know it...but to be fair, he didn't actually cheat the game, he put up a situation in which the outcome out the game wasn't that he would win, but to make it look as if Phoenix was the one that had cheated, which would ruin his reputation, and put him out of a job and wouldn't have any money to keep raising his adopted daughter...that was much worse than hypocrisy.
      • The MASON System shows Phoenix and Zak to be fairly good buddies tells me that it's probably a case of Unfortunate Implications that the writers didn't fully think through... But those are still some pretty damn unfortunate implications.
      • The MASON system probably used that appearance of Zak as a vehicle to express Phoenix's theories about things relating to his wife, as well as allowing Phoenix to take the High Road. Phoenix probably got back at Zak by forging his "confession" to Valant.
      • Zak was a magician and trying to pull a trick on Phoenix on general principle. He probably didn't even plan to tell anyone that he beat Phoenix since he was planning to go back into hiding. Violently assaulting his probably-out-of-the-loop "assistant" when the trick failed in this case still means that he's a complete jerk.
    • Think about this for a moment. Obviously, it could never have been Zak's intention to ruin Phoenix's reputation, as that would be worse than hypocrisy, as aforementioned. So, Zak must have played the trick on Phoenix because he knew that Spark was close to finding Drew Misham (he shadowed Spark for seven years, he probably would have dropped hints for Spark to come to this conclusion). I think the card game served as somewhat a microcosm for Phoenix's last trial, for he was in possession of forged evidence he didn't know existed in both situations. It was never Zak's intention to stomp on Phoenix, just to cryptically let him know that they were close to zeroing in on the person who ordered the forgery. Of course, we'll never know what Zak really intended, cause he's dead.
    • It might have been a prank that he would have told no one else about. It might have been a challenge ("Well, Mr. Wright, can you figure out how this happened?") It might have been a rather strange way to tell Phoenix to get up off his sorry butt and get back in the lawyering business. It might have been a way to "punish" Phoenix for using Trucy's Perceive.note  Who knows?
  • In "Turnabout Trump", why doesn't Apollo's bracelet react to Kristoph's Twitchy Eye?
    • Probably because his distress is so obvious at eye-twitching levels that he doesn't need the bracelet to make him aware of it.
      • This isn't the point. The bracelet doesn't magically know when to shut of its functions when Apollo doesn't need it to react. The fact is that it should have reacted even still. And there wouldn't be a reason for Apollo to just ignore it if it happened either since he doesn't yet know what the deal is with his bracelet, so it can't be passed of with "it did react but it was ignored since it wasn't important".
      • Apollo's bracelet couldn't possibly have a blanket reaction to all tension or physiological movements in everyone he interacts with though. If that was true, the thing would be reacting literally all the time, 24/7. The bracelet only reacting to minute subconscious twitches and habits is the only way to explain why Apollo can still live life normally even with a bracelet strapped to his wrist that tightens in response to tension and twitching (just imagine him going to, say, a football match, or some such, the bracelet would turn into a torture device). This doesn't really fit in line with pseudo-science explanation behind how the bracelet works, but then again, the explanation hardly makes sense in the first place. It was basically just a way for them to avoid calling the bracelet magic.
  • Part of the evidence in the first case here was that Phoenix's fingerprints were on the bottle. And they were upside down so he couldn't have just been handling it normally. But my question is, when you're holding the neck of the bottle, how exactly would you be holding it that it looks upside down?
    • The opening video for the case shows exactly how the bottle was held, but I'll explain anyway. Usually when one holds a bottle by the neck, the bottle is right-side up and is held with the index finger closest to the cork (pointing upwards) and the pinky closest to the base (pointing downwards). Phoenix grabbed the neck of a bottle that was below him, so he held it the opposite way: his index finger closest to the base (pointing down) and his pinky was closest to the cork (pointing up), which would create the exact same pattern of fingerprints as if he was holding it upside-down.
  • During 4-1, why didn't Kristoph simply tell everyone that he'd seen "Shadi Smith's" bald head when he'd tipped his hat as they passed by after Gavin had left the club? This would have explained how he knew he was bald, without putting him AT the scene...
    • Because then Phoenix or Apollo would probably demand that Kristoph needs to show that "Shadi Smith" tipped his hat when they passed one another. And Phoenix going "You have no proof" seemed to work well enough in 2-4 when the debate on whether or not Matt knew the suicide not was fake came up.
  • Why didn't Kristoph just reveal that the 5th ace is forged? If he's screwed either way, he might as well take Phoenix and Apollo with him.
    • Kristoph did say Apollo was presenting illegal evidence when the fifth ace showed up. However, and likely because of his pride, he merely mocked Phoenix for doing that instead of accusing Phoenix and Apollo of using forged evidence as the serious offense it is. As a result, no one took Kristoph's words seriously nor realised the fifth ace was a forgery, and the topic is dropped almost immediately.
    • Once he had already been caught, though, why not point it out again? It wouldn't be difficult to reveal that the evidence had been forged, and that way, he could potentially have ruined Apollo's law career. We've seen already that he's not above doing such a thing as he did that exact thing to Phoenix, simply because Phoenix had replaced Kristoph in the Enigmar trial.
      • Given the Kangaroo Court nature of this series, he'd most likely fall into Ignored Expert territory if he did, especially considering he was now a convicted murderer (from which smear campaigns against his accusers wouldn't exactly be unexpected).
      • He wasn't a convicted murderer at the time, though. This is the case that got Kristoph a reservation at the Alcatraz Hilton.
    • Phoenix specifically says to Kristoph that only someone who was at the crime scene at the time in question would be able to prove what he is presenting as fabrication. To say it's fake is also to implicate yourself, so Kristoph had to shut himself up.
    Kristoph: The court can't accept this evidence! It's a fraud!
    Phoenix: A fraud? How can you be so sure?
    Kristoph: Wh-What...?
    Phoenix: I would think the only person who could claim it was a fraud would be the one who took the real card from the crime scene... The real killer!
    • I personally think Kristoph could have stated the ace was a forgery and not incriminate himself had he used a different tone. I don't think it was his claim of the ace being forged what pinned him as the murderer, but how he reacted. Something like merely expressing doubt about such a convenient piece of evidence showing up (Considering how Phoenix lost his badge with a similarly oh-so-convincing piece of evidence) and asking whose fingerprints were on it (Since Kristoph does not wear gloves) may have painted him in a more positive light. But he didn't do that.
  • After "Shadi" gets irate and hits Olga with the bottle, Phoenix goes to call for the police. Then he went back down, and found that Shadi was now dead. AKA, Phoenix actually called the police and reported Olga's assault, not Shadi's murder. Why, then, did no one seem to know that Olga had been assaulted, and why did everyone think that Phoenix called the police to report the murder?
    • The call was probably a generic "someone was attacked, send help" call. Although you're typically held on the phone during a 911 call and made to relay info, people cutting the call off early isn't exactly uncommon. If my memory serves, Phoenix says during a cross-examination that he didn't want to leave the unconscious Olga alone with Shadi for too long (and cell phones don't get reception down there), so his call to the police was probably fairly short and to the point.
  • Why didn't the bailiffs in the lobby do anything when the lawyer began physically attacking his client? And no, the excuse that it was too insignificant a punch isn't gonna work. Phoenix distinctly says that Apollo's punch was a uppercut. And the excuse that they didn't notice can't really work either. Apollo was shouting at him in an argument then yelled in rage before slamming his fist into his chin, how would they not notice what was going on?
    • These are probably the same bailiffs who ignored a defense attorney being struck on the head with a fire extinguisher, and they're also probably related to the security guard who ignored a suspect's confession to instigated suicide and murder by hitman. In other words: they're just part of the background.
  • Unless I'm missing something here, why did Phoenix dispose of the five of hearts card inside the bottle? Everyone brings up how strange that was for him to do, and Phoenix vaguely tells everyone that he had a reason for doing something random like that, but doesn't say what it was. As it turns out, him doing that went on to act as proof that the bottles were swapped. But, um, is Phoenix a psychic now? Because he disposed of the card in the bottle before the final hand of the poker game, which is before there was any indication that a murder was gonna take place at all, let alone that it would've targeted Shadi while he wasn't in the room, and let alone that they'd have used a bottle, and let alone that they'd then swap the bottles around. Phoenix being prone to the Indy Ploy is one thing, but he had no reason at that point even execute an Indy Ploy at all. Unless he seriously foretold that there was a need to do some random action to foul some random murder plot just by finding a playing card in his pocket, and then by pure luck did the very thing that was needed to do just that, which would be beyond astronomical levels and into Andromedan levels of ridiculous.
    • Phoenix was playing a card game when he suddenly noticed a card in his pocket which he had no knowledge of. Then he either a) immediately figured out Shadi's plan and stepped out of his trap, or b)having learned something from seven years ago, he simply didn't want to get caught with anything that might suggest that he had cheated, even if he had no idea of the fact. Either way, he had to immediately dispose of the card, and he chose a way of doing it that 1) didn't attract any attention to himself, 2) didn't interrupt the game and 3) put the card in a place that wouldn't undergo a deep check by Shadi afterwards. It was just a response to Shadi's trap, and had nothing to do with the murder or the bottle swap, neither of which he could have predicted.
  • People always point out (and Phoenix himself brings it up in-game) how Phoenix never told a single lie through the case; he was technically telling specifically phrases truths the entire time to manipulate the flow of the trial. That's all well and good, apart from the fact that Phoenix does lie. He says he never touched the murder weapon, despite his prints being on the bottle. As it turns out this was likely his specific wording relating to the swapping of the bottles, so he never touched "the murder weapon". But, the thing is, that's still not true. Unless I'm mistaken, the murder weapon was the bottle with the playing card inside it. Not only did Phoenix obviously touch it to put the card inside, she specifically says that it was the bottle of juice he had been drinking during that poker game.

People vs Misham (And Investigations in the Present)

  • How was Drew able to continue his forging operation for the next 7 years? I can buy that he might get amnesty for his testimony because it stopped a false conviction, but Phoenix, the judge, and Klavier, all pretty upstanding people, now all know his secret. And yet not one of them decided to keep a closer watch on him?
    • Given that he was disbarred, Phoenix could not be presumed as "upstanding" at the time. Klavier and the Prosecution Office, on the other hand, have no such excuse.
  • Why did the under sketch of the paintings in 4-4 depict the cases that Justice worked on? This particular point, while being very mysterious (i.e. why, and how was Vera (or Drew) able to know the details of the crimes and redraw it), was never explained.
    • It was said that Drew Misham took an interest in Apollo after hearing about his connection to Phoenix.
  • On the risk of being petty, how did the police ever come to the conclusion that Vera poisoned the RIM of the coffee mug? I mean, apart from the whole atroquinine-is-slow-acting contradiction, they (or at least, Ema) only found only a small stain of atroquinine residue on the rim of the mug in question. However, if I'd ever poison the rim of a coffee mug, I'd put the poison all over the rim to ensure that my victim would get the poison inside their body, and not just a small piece and hope that my victim would put their lips exactly over there. You would think at least someone involved with the investigation would have came up with this.
    • Consider case 3-3's coffee mug stain and it's not an unreasonable conclusion. They believe the culprit is Vera, and if the mug has exactly one handle, she would know which side Drew would drink from based on which hand he would use to pick it up, and given that she lives with him, of course she would know this. If she -was- the culprit it wouldn't even matter if he switched it up on her because he still wouldn't discover the poison on the other end of the cup, so she could just try again if it came to it.
      • Makes sense, but even if Drew usually picked the cup up with the same hand, he'd still have to put his mouth on that exact spot. Yes, Vera probably wouldn't have to have (theoretically) put atroquinine on the whole rim, but still a bit more on whichever side she thinks he'd drink out of.
  • In 4-4, Klavier freaks out when he realizes that Vera was the one who forged the evidence in Nick's last case. Okay. Understandable. But given how, in that case, Valant was Klavier's main witness, and a good chunk of what triggered Klavier's freak out was the fact that Vera said the diary page was related to the Grammaryes, shouldn't Klavier have felt uncomfortable working with Valant in 4-3? Now, granted, it's been a little while since I've played 4-4, so I don't remember exactly how the scene went, but... at the very least, why didn't they seem to recognize each other?
    • It wasn't just the connection to the Grammarye case that got him freaked out, it was the mention that she made the diary page. Klavier says that he felt something was off about the whole issue, if you recall. He mercilessly took down Phoenix because he thought Phoenix ordered it made, but then had doubts. He now suddenly has evidence that the situation was not at all what he thought, specifically that the real forager was not Drew Misham, but Vera. Notice that the thing he focuses on is confirming exactly what the evidence she forged was.
  • Vera was a shut in who hadn't left her home in at least 7 years and her only companion was her beloved father. Did Gavin ever establish what her motive to want to kill him was or where she acquired the rare poison he died from?
    • Nope, they never did bother with a motive. As for the poison... well, it's a bit of a stretch, but it's possible they assumed she ordered it from somewhere; Vera could theoretically still get it without leaving the house.
  • In 4-4, which is just as full of this as 3-5, how did Kristoph Gavin know so much about the case? He was in solitary confinement, and even though he does get some news from the outside world, Spark Brushel said (or at least implied) several times that nobody had taken Drew Misham's death to press yet. I know his little brother is the prosecutor, but 1) the recess wasn't long enough for Klavier to be able to brief Kristoph about the case, and 2) based on Klavier's behavior during the first part of the trial and early on in the second, it doesn't seem like he'd be particularly trusting of his dear brother. The fact itself that he knew so much about the case when he testified should have been proof enough to point the finger of justice at him.
    • Well, the game does imply that Kristoph may not be completely normal. I mean, he's been stalking everyone from the time of that case. Even Zak, whom no one could find. Even when he was in jail, everyone felt as though Kristoph had their eyes on him or her.
      • He didn't stalk Zak because he couldn't find him. He was keeping tabs on Brushel, however, and was heavily implied to have found Zak when the magician got in touch with Brushel to notarize the forms he was leaving with Phoenix. Though one wonders why the cops didn't confiscate and read those forms when Phoenix was arrested, revealing Shadi's identity, but that's another problem altogether.
    • "Many things pass by my desk, and I have nothing to do but read". I believe he says this when you visit him in solitary. In other words, he's using his influence to get info on the case the same way he used it to get such a nice prison cell.
  • What exactly is Kristoph trying to accomplish during the last trial day of 4-4? I mean, he had already been convicted of killing "Shadi Smith," thereby receiving life in prison and possibly even the death penalty eventually. What good will ensuring that he is not indicted for another murder going to do? Even if he ensured Vera's guilty verdict and thereby got rid of the last person who could rat him out for his evidence forgery, he's still a convicted murderer locked up for life. What's the point of trying to protect your reputation when your reputation has already been ruined by your cold-blooded killing of another man? Is Kristoph just a troll/griefer who enjoys stomping all over Phoenix's and Apollo's efforts, even when he really has nothing to gain from it?
    • He probably knew that Phoenix had figured out his role in his disbarment. He probably didn't want Phoenix to reveal the circumstances of his disbarment and get his job back. He's a petty monster.
    • It's mentioned earlier in this case that he is still well-respected by his former peers, many of whom have a hard time accepting that he is a convicted murderer. He even sarcastically confesses to being a monster, showing that he doesn't take his incarceration particularly seriously. It's well-established at this point that he cares far more for his reputation than for justice, so being in jail may not bother him so long as he still has the respect of the lawyers of the world. Trying to shut down Phoenix and Apollo's attempts to tie him to another murder makes for a great opportunity to bolster his reputation by making the two who convicted him in the first place look like out-of-touch fools. Plus, having his plot to destroy Phoenix's career exposed really would damage his reputation beyond repair.
    • Plus, in Investigations 2, doesn't Frank Sawhit show up as accomplice, and he gets an extension on his jail time? This would seem to imply that not all of the killers are actually getting the death sentence, so it's possible that Kristoph didn't get the death sentence for killing "Shadi Smith." He probably would get put on death row for Drew's death, or in the very least get a jail time extension, so he was trying to avoid that.
      • It may simply depend on the circumstances and the person. Kristoph managed to avoid getting the death penalty on his reputation as being a highly respected defence attorney, and Frank Sawhit may have avoided the death penalty by claiming that he didn't want to kill her, simply knock her out, getting convicted for man slaughter rather than murder so it may simply depend upon the circumstances of the murder and the person being convicted.
      • In the States, it's the difference between only being able to prove Second-Degree Murder and being able to prove First-Degree Murder.
    • There is a lot about Kristoph that raises all manner of questions. The fourth case seems to imply that there is more to Kristoph that meets the eye, from his conspiracy to have Phoenix disbarred over the imagined sleight against him, to the black Psyche-Locks, the beautifully furnished prison cell, the scar on the back of his hand that deforms into a hideous devil face, the evil, soulless eyes hidden behind his menacing glasses, etc. The game seems to suggest that Kristoph is the most absolutely evil thing ever to enter a courtroom since Dahlia Hawthorne, and leaves a lot of the suspense and mystery surrounding him intact at the end of it. I would actually be very surprised if this is the last we hear of Kristoph.
    • A possible explanation comes from the revelation of what the black Psyche-Locks are. In Duel Destinies, you find out Black Psyche-Locks only appear when a person's lie is so heavily veiled by their psyche that they don't even realize they're lying; in other words, repressed memories or experiences. While it ultimately isn't relevant to the case, it reveals that there's some deep-seeded psychological issues and past experiences that have driven Kristoph to become so bitter and spiteful.
    • It's explicitly stated that he's still managed to salvage his fame and fortune as much as possible, allowing him enough perks and privileges to where he Might as Well Not Be in Prison at All. Additionally, he's most likely not on death row (which several games have established as not being certain for every killer, merely a risk factor for extreme cases), and he obviously doesn't want to push the envelope any more with another murder to his name. Also, he just wants the last laugh on Phoenix and Apollo.
  • In case 4, you are unable to use the letter from Misham to prove Kristoph's connection to the victim, because it's just a copy created by Phoenix. Why was it not possible to obtain the real letter? Kristoph is in solitary confinement for murder. Is it not possible to just ask that his mail be confiscated?
    • By that point, Kristoph should have most likely destroyed the letter already, it'd be futile to try to get the original by then. Also he is in solitary confinement. But by his choice, and lives in luxury. As much as he can anyway.
      • Except that he already has stated that his mail is read before it gets to him. That there isn't a record of mail coming from Drew Misham to his cell is nothing short of gross negligence. Granted, given the conditions he lives in, this probably isn't surprising.
      • His mail is read, not copied. Whatever officer had the duty of reading Kristoph's mail that day probably read the letter, put it back in the envelope, passed it off to Kristoph, and then abruptly stopped caring about it because up until the point where it became required evidence to a murder trial, it was just another piece of mail, and if Kristoph is as well-respected still as the game seems to indicate, he probably gets all manner of correspondance from peers, fans, and well-wishers.
      • But then couldn't the person who read it testify in court? Sure, if he gets that many letters he may have forgotten what that particular yellow-clad letter said, but the idea doesn't seem to cross anybody's mind.
      • That requires the officer remembering the contents of the letter. It wasn't until the final trial day that any kind of connection between that letter and that case was proven. Not knowing the context behind it, the letter from Drew Misham looks like just a random transaction.
      • An even easier solution would be to present the video Phoenix recorded, which includes his atroquinine test performed in the cell. Unfortunately, Phoenix is busy managing the case, and the idea to give Apollo the video doesn't even cross his mind (but faking the letter himself is the bright idea he does go through with, heh). Kristoph says as much, mentioning that Apollo's story is based on a man's "claim to have taken a video".
  • What's the deal with Kristoph's black Psyche-Locks? Are they ever broken? When I played through 4-4 and finished the MASON System part, I realized I never had a chance to break them. Was I supposed to? I mean, these things are new and were never in the Phoenix arc, and yet here they are and are never mentioned again.
    • The whole point of the black Psyche-Locks is that they can't be broken, or at least not by Phoenix. What everyone seems to forget is the question that produced said Psyche-Locks was something to the extent of: "Why did you kill Shadi Smith?" While Phoenix is unable to get the answer out of Kristoph during the investigation, Apollo is able to figure it out during the trial, thanks partially to his Perceive ability. It was meant to further the idea of "passing the torch" in that even with his Magatama, Phoenix could never beat Kristoph on his own. Instead, it required Apollo and his bracelet. Of course, the impact is lessened when you realize Phoenix was The Chessmaster and arguably is the one who caught Kristoph anyway.
      • Any discussion of why the psyche-locks are a different color is going to have to involve some speculation. In any case, the game doesn't even let you enter an unlock sequence and the person in question arguably guards his secrets more tightly than any other character, so the most common interpretation can be supported.
    • The whole Psyche-Lock shtick is really too powerful for its own good- the players have to come up with justifications for its shortcomings and contradictions. I just think that the Magatama isn't powerful enough to see past doublethink or really dark, hidden secrets like Kristoph's. I think that the bracelet is meant to be an improvement on this shaky device, just like the Jurist System. Again, with the whole "passing on the torch" idea, it seems plausible that Phoenix would have wholeheartedly trusted Apollo's abilities over his own methods.
    • Similarly, in Case 3-5, Larry and Iris have five red psyche-locks regarding what he saw at Dusky Bridge and how she really knows Phoenix's name, respectively, which are never broken during gameplay, but during the trial. It's possible that the Magatama only lets Phoenix know whether someone is keeping a secret and how close he is to figuring it out; like in cross-examinations, he has to produce the evidence and make the connections necessary to find the truth.
    • Duel Destinies reveals that black Psyche-Locks hide secrets so dark and personal for the liar that they don't even realize they're lying; in other words, some form of repressed-memory PTSD, like Athena with her mother's murder. So while that answers what the black locks mean, it also leaves more questions as to what exactly is so horrid that Kristoph's own mind is hiding memories from him.
      • So, presumably, if Pheonix had the Magatama during "Turnabout Goodbyes", Edgeworth could've had Black Locks when asked about DL-6? And possibly Ema about SL-9 during "Rise From The Ashes"?
    • Kristoph absolutely can't stand the idea of other people being better defense attorneys than him. He's "the coolest defense attorney in the west", so that means no one can even get close to his level. When Zak ditches him to hire Phoenix instead... no, he doesn't admit that the lawyer who beat "The God of Prosecution" and his two successors is indeed better, he instead tries to get Phoenix disbarred so that no one can best him. That's the nature behind his black psyche-locks: he will never accept the idea of not being the best lawyer. He forged the diary page so that his brother Klavier couldn't best him; he delivered the forged page to Phoenix and warned Klavier about it so that Phoenix couldn't best him, and tried to silence Zak and the Mishams to ensure that would not happen after the disbarment; he gets furious when he realizes Phoenix gave Apollo forged evidence to best him (just like Kristoph did to Phoenix seven years before); then in Case 4-4 he shows up in court so that he can have the last laugh over Apollo, Klavier and most importantly Phoenix. Notice that he rather calmly explains his plan to disbar Phoenix, and only violently bursts into his Villainous Breakdown after he realizes Phoenix bested him for the third time, even with Apollo and Klavier on his side.
  • Why does Kristoph's hair become normal again once he starts laughing at the end of his Super Saiyan breakdown? Is it to show how creepy he is?
    • Maybe it's just because he's a dandy to the end.
  • So why did Misham try to send Kristoph the letter seven years late?
    • He didn't. He wrote to Kristoph asking him to remove her 'magic charm'. He'd already sent the letter (the diary page) seven years ago, just with a different stamp than Kristoph intended.
  • Why, if the penalty meter runs out during the second day of Vera's trial does the judge do his regular 'the defendent will surrender herself to the court's care...' etc speech? Not only is she in intensive care, but the judge completely fails to consult the jury! The writers put in a whole bad ending where Vera dies that's only possible to reach on purpose but apparently didn't do the bare minimum of adding something to clarify this.
    • I guess because there's only three evidence presentations and one Perceive sequence, so they didn't expect many people would see this scene.
  • So Drew Misham's wife ended up leaving him because he was a Starving Artist who couldn't sell a painting... and left Vera in his custody. Does this have to do with Japan's divorce laws favoring the father(or something along those lines), or did Mrs. Misham not care about raising her daughter? Not only is there the case of Morgan's husband getting custody of Dahlia and Iris(despite sending the latter to Hazakura Temple), but it reminds me of a similar situation in Muhyo and Roji, in which Nana's mother left her husband, leaving Nana in the custody of her washed-up photographer father.
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    The MASON and Jurist Systems 
  • So what was Phoenix's original plan for the jurist system? He seemingly overhauled the legal system solely to get Kristoph to pay for his actions or to get himself freed from the forgery accusation that lost him his badge, but it was a mere stroke of luck that one of the Misham's died RIGHT at the time he was about to implement the system. He even says that he changed the original planned case in favor of the Misham case. But no case that didn't involve the Misham's would help him, so what could his original plan have been?
  • When did Phoenix acquire the ability to transport evidence across space and time? In the last case of Apollo Justice,note  Phoenix presents evidence that he can't possibly have at the time he presents it, and draws conclusions based on knowledge he will have in the future. For example, the picture of Trucy's mother that you get from Valant Grammarye Spark Brushel? You use it to break Zak's Psyche lock SIX MONTHS EARILER! I should probably stress that you get the picture after Zak DIES! And then there's the whole thing with Vera. How does "seven years ago" Phoenix have any clue that the bottle on the desk could possibly be Vera's good luck charm? If it was in the present, I would be fine with it, but our Phoenix hasn't seen that bottle before in his life. Also, why does "seven years ago" Phoenix know to suggest Kristoph as Vera's secret client? He has no reason to suspect Kristoph at that time, not until the events seven years later, when he sees that bottle of nail polish in Kristoph's cell? It boggles the mind!
    • In between the third and fourth games Phoenix received a Shout-Out from Haruhi Suzumiya. This Shout-Out must have been of such potency that it allowed a sliver of Haruhi's reality warping power to pass into Phoenix. .....OK, I've got nothing.
    • Phoenix has a few things going for him... one, he's a freaking badass. Two, he's become accustomed to weird crap happening around him. Three, a few of those thingsnote  could have been pieced together with the evidence at hand. In fact, I'd say that the only reason you HAVE to present the future one in that case is so so that you have to talk to Kristoph and see his bitchin' Black Psych-Locks.
    • OK, so how about when you talk to Brushel about Thalassa? When you talk to Brushel after the death of Drew, he tells you about Thalassa's first husband, and Phoenix admits he didn't know about him. Flashback to him breaking Zak's Psyche-lock, six months earlier, and he's talking about Thalassa's first husband as if he'd known it all along!
    • It was probbably supposed to just be a simulation of Phoenix's logic as he investigated these things over several years. He's put these elements together in his mind; what you play isn't really what happened.
      • OK, so how did Phoenix learn what Zak would've said? And what would be the point to him using a "logic simulation", rather then it being a recording from the camera in the PaPa cap?
      • Simple enough: The jury doesn't have points in Spurious Logic.
    • The MASON system is not supposed to be an entirely accurate summation of Phoenix's memory in chronological order. He states at the start that it's to be played like a game, which is what it is - kind of a game allowing the jury to discover what happened instead of just infodumping. It is not chronologically accurate because it's easier to explain Phoenix's logic. The items are not taken back and forth from the future to the past, as this is not actually Phoenix's memory, it's a computer program.
    • Here's my theory. First off, with the nail polish, Phoenix knew Gavin before he talked to Vera, as he presumably saw him with that distinctive type of nail polish. Also, when you present the picture of Thalassa, you only talk about seeing a kid with bracelets who has a similar power to Trucy, which he could have done before talking to Zak. As for how Phoenix knew about Thalassa's first husband... Well, it's possible that Valant told him that. Long story short, any evidence we present that Phoenix shouldn't have he actually got elsewhere.
    • The main problem with this big plot hole is that, from the jury's viewpoint (which was the whole reason that this "intermission" happened), Phoenix created the MASON, which was reproducing testimonies from different times regarding this one case, not unlike a very fancy and expensive videoplayer. Which means that, just like the bias on any other media presented as factual evidence in court, Phoenix could basically fabricate evidence based on his own uncreditable testimony. Wasn't him disbarred for this very reason?!
    • Someone could have channeled Zak's spirit and Phoenix could break psychelocke right there and put it in the MASON system as Zak in the bar because he's too lazy to create a new area.
    • This troper's take on the whole MASON mess is that Phoenix learned most of the relevant information for the case (specifically, the backstories of Troupe Gramarye and Misham family) from Spark Brushel after Kristoph got convicted and couldn't keep watch on either of them, and then used Brushel's (and probably Valant's) testimony to create the Timey-Wimey Ball the Jurists had to solve.
    • I was under the impression that the MASON investigation segment actually involves Apollo and not the Jurists, as it happens before the final trial day. Apollo definitely claims that he watched Phoenix's recording of Kristoph's cell visit and has all the evidence obtained from MASON. I don't think Phoenix would've rigged the Jury that much in his favor, given that a guilty verdict from Lamiroir that ends the trial with a "hung jury" is presented as a possible and realistic outcome (the same way Phoenix can realistically lose in 1-5 or 2-4 - a bad ending for sure, but a probable one). It's still possible to doubt Vera after only seeing the trials, but pretty much impossible after seeing the MASON investigation and learning everything that happened, especially for Lamiroir. Also, it would've been unfair to Apollo and quite awkward to have him conduct the investigation game along with the Jurists.
  • This isn't so much a beef with the games as it is with the above complaint. In Apollo Justice, with the MASON system, people complain that using Kristoph's nail-polish in the 'present' to break Vera's Psychlock in the 'past' doesn't make sense. It appears everyone has forgotten that it's more-or-less a simulation of Phoenix's investigation and a tool to figure out the logic behind the investigation. The nail-polish was most likely seen at Phoenix's disbarment and/or during his 'friendship' with Kristoph. The future, the evidence is collected in the cell to show why it's important, and the one that Phoenix used against Vera was hers. As for the photo and the truth about Apollo, that is more up to debate, but odds are that Phoenix just found a file photo of Thalassa. As for why he was carrying it about? Perhaps he knew of the performance rights after all (no one said that the inner monologues were strictly Phoenix's or his at all).
    • Also, you can examine areas with the MASON system just as you can without it, and the bottle of nail polish is clearly visible on the table in Drew Studio. When you examine it, Drew spazzes and tells you not to touch it because it's Vera's and she will get very angry if you do. It doesn't take too much of a leap of faith to connect the "good luck charm" with the bottle of nail polish, even without knowing that Kristoph uses the same brand. And the problem of using Kristoph's bottle? An identical one is sitting right there on the table. Phoenix could've used Vera's own bottle of nail polish to break her psyche-lock when he did the investigating for real.
  • The MASON system in Apollo Justice. Phoenix uses his magatama to crack people into talking and you lose some of your life energy when you screw up just like in the old days. I know that Phoenix says to think of this as a game, but it just makes no sense to have the Life Meter system in place for this period since lost life doesn't transfer to Apollo once you play as him again plus nothing happens to Phoenix if you lose all your life energy during a psyche-lock.
    • It's for decoration. A callback to Phoenix's days. That's all it probably is.
    • Also, that's just how the Magatama works. Even if the life meter doesn't transfer over to Apollo (and I think it replenished itself before the next trial segment in JFA and T&T anyway), getting things incorrect in the Psychelock sections still costs you. Besides, not getting penalized in these parts would make them too easy.
  • At the end of 4-4, Phoenix simply tells the jurors to vote "Innocent" or "Guilty", not something like "Push the left button for innocent, and the right for guilty." Juror 6's buttons aren't Braille labeled. Juror 6 is then revealed to be Lamiroir, who is blind.
    • Not quite. At the end of 4-3, it is suggested that she may get eye surgery. After this vote, it is implied that she did.
    • Besides, it's not like nobody knew at this point that she was blind. Phoenix could have briefed her on how it worked beforehand.
    • Going back to the implications of the first rebuttal, I believe she says something to the tune of "I read in the handbook that [such and such]", signaling her eyes were working just fine now.
  • Is the point of the Jurist System to raise the standards that are required for conviction, or lower them? Because it seemed like in case 3, the point being made was that Daryan is obviously the killer, but because the legal system is faulty, he can't be convicted except by wearing down Machi's reluctance to testify. However, in the final case, you never see whether or not Kristoph is convicted by a jury, all you do see is that Vera is acquitted by one. The thing is that Ace Attorney's legal system is not flawed because it's too difficult to convict the guilty, it's because it's too easy to convict the innocent. You'd think that the reason why Apollo would've been getting up in arms in case 3 is not that Daryan is too hard to convict, but that Machi is too hard to acquit even though he's such an improbable suspect.
    • Why would Kristoph need to be convicted by a jury when he was already convicted earlier? In any case, I believe the Jurist System was created because it was too easy to get the innocent sent to jail.
    • The two problems - too easy to convict the innocent, too hard to convict the guilty - are inextricably linked. Some cases in the series go as far as saying outright that no matter how conclusively you prove the defendant's innocence, if you don't identify and prove the real culprit, the defendant will be found guilty anyway. Cases where it's said "nobody will find him/her Not Guilty, not now" are a departure from the core logic of the game's setting, and don't seem to be thought through.
      • It still isn't too hard to convict the guilty. Seriously, given what we know about this court system, how often do you suppose a guilty suspect manages to get himself declared not guilty? It's merely too hard to convict guilty people who have framed someone else, due to the difficulty of "turning the case around" from the initial suspect. All of this said, Apollo definitely ranted from the wrong angle at the end of case 3. In fact, his rant was on the Wall Banger page for a while before the section was cleaned up. (Only in Ace Attorney can the idea of a jurist system not only be supported for its ability to find people guilty without decisive evidence, but also be primarily backed for this reason by defense attorneys instead of prosecutors.)
      • The court also has absurdly high standards of evidence required to convict anyone other than the defendant. If you doubt this, check up on 2-1, when the Judge says that if Phoenix can't prove the witness's motive the defendant will be found guilty even though the only piece of evidence the prosecution still has that could implicate her implicates the witness just as much. So basically, as the Judge puts it: "Common citizens have something called common sense" which is otherwise completely absent from the court.
      • That was a problem I had with the system of PW and AP all the time. Think about Case 2-4 and Matt Engarde being tried for murder. Now, hiring an assasin to do the killing does not make you the murderer but an accessory to murder. So, once the assassin was revealed to be the real killer, the defendant should automatically get an acquittal because it was the wrong thing to try him for - he needed to be tried for accessory to murder. Same in 4-4 with Vera and Kristoph. She was the defendant and the trial was about what she had supposedly done, not the witness called in. We can't randomly convict a witness, who isn't even being tried for anything.
      • Unfortunately, it does seem to work that way in this series. Case 3-2 demonstrates this: the defendant isn't found not guilty until after the witness admits his guilt on the stand, and then the trial for the witness's guilt occurs the next day. It almost seems redundant. Also, regarding the subject of changing the charges without ending the case, Phoenix isn't given the option in 2-2 to argue for the possibility of a justified homicide charge against his client until her murder trial has already begun.
      • Actually, in the United States, at least, hiring someone to kill someone else is still first degree murder. You don't get any lighter charges for not doing it yourself.
  • I can get how the MASON system is effectively a compilation/dramatization of Phoenix's investigations in this case.note  And I can see how he could have conversations with the people at their respective locations... What I can't see is how Phoenix's conversation with Spark Brushel at Misham Studios could have been uploaded, let alone edited, given that the only time that that conversation could have taken place was during the Trial period; specifically while Vera was in the hospital.note  The only way that that could be reconciled is if the MASON system was used by the Defense;note  yet it's explicitly used by the Jury! Just... HOW?!?!
    • As a bonus, this is the part of the MASON system sequence that reveals that Thalassa had a second child. Is Phoenix really trying to claim that he only found out about Apollo's parents less than 24 hours before? It kinda goes against everything he had ever said about Apollo's power in the first case. And it becomes even more confused when you realize that the MASON system sequence also claims that Phoenix met Brushel for the first time on the very night Shadi challenged him to the poker game, meaning he had no chance to talk to him about Apollo before his arrest!
    • While the part where Phoenix and Brushel speak in the Misham Studios being depicted in the MASON system has no explanation whatsoever (the Sunshine Colosseum can happen any time between Case 3 and 4), Phoenix could still assume Thalassa had two children. That's because of the bracelets (I doubt Brushel carries the only photo where Thalassa's bracelets are shown; Trucy likely had at least one showing them as well). It's supposed to simulate everything Phoenix found out in 7 years. Unless Phoenix and Brushel met again in-between Cases 1 and 4, and it's only depicted in the Misham Studios... to save on software space, maybe?

    The Twisted Grammarye Family Tree 
  • A certain famous magician mysteriously disappears. Several years later, an equally famous musician with a mysterious past and amnesia appears out of nowhere. How come not one person has ever noticed that these two people look identical?
    • It's been about a decade since Thalassa's accident. She was reported dead, not disappeared. The musician is a recent sensation, and I think this tour is her first time actually being back in this country. She wears a veil and doesn't even speak English in public. All in all, someone of the "Elvis isn't dead" mindset and familiarity with both could probably pick up on the similarities... given time. But not enough time has passed...
    • And this will definitely be happening soon, considering Thalassa shed her veil and the Troupe Gramarye is back in the spotlight.
    • But even if nobody else recognizes her, Valant, of all people, should have. Considering the fact that he likes her and they spent so much time today. Especially since he must know how Lamiroir looks like very well, as he impersonated her for the magic trick. There's no way he didn't recognize her.
      • It's possible that he did recognize her and he just didn't mention it, given how she has amnesia and clearly doesn't remember him anyway. There was one line in the MASON system (in the present-day segment, outside the coliseum) where Valant muses that they never actually saw Thalassa's body after the accident or something like that, so it's pretty likely that he started putting two and two together at least by that point.
      • Besides, for all he knew, he could be the person who had shot her, so the last thing he'd want is for her to suddenly regain her memories and expose him. I think the hint that he drops during the mason system is proof that he did indeed recognise her, but making a big deal out of it wouldn't have benefited anyone!
    • During the MASON segment it's shown that Valant recognized the similarities but dismissed them as Lamiroir being just an Identical Stranger for Thalassa. When Phoenix shows Valant the letter where Zak gives all the rights of his tricks to Trucy, proving he was alive until very recently, Valant tells Phoenix that Thalassa's body was never seen, implying he stopped considering Lamiroir's resemblance to Thalassa as a coincidence.
  • Why was Lamiroir considered an appropriate jurist in the final case? I mean, leaving aside that the defense attorney and his assistant are her children, which wasn't common knowledge, there's still the fact that she has very close ties to one of Apollo's previous cases and was very much sympathetic to him. Did no one besides Phoenix vet the jurists? Anyone else should have picked up on that bias in about three seconds. Even she was questioning whether she was qualified to serve!
    • I'm more concerned that a foreign celebrity in our country for a tour was chosen for the jury. Doesn't seem right to recruit tourists and foreign visitors to serve jury duty.
      • It's shown that Lamiroir is part of Troupe Gramarye, and became Lamiroir in some bizarre circumstances. Since it's never explicitly stated where the Troupe were from originally, she could perfectly well be from whatever country this game is set (Japan, US, etc).
    • Lamiroir herself asks to talk to Phoenix and says something like: "...it says in the Jurist handbook that "no jurists may be connected to the case". Phoenix replies by saying something like: "I've checked all your backgrounds. None of you were involved in the investigation or bring up of the case." This is what the ACTUAL American Jury system states. It doesn't matter if a jurist is connected to one of the lawyers or anything besides being involved in the ACTUAL INVESTIGATION. In other words, the only rule saying that a person can't be a jury member is if they were involved in the case on trial, not the lawyers or anything else.
    • It's possible that Phoenix was able to prove that she was from the country the game is set in without revealing to members of the legal system that she's Apollo's mother.
    • After all, "Thalassa Gramarye" is probably not listed as the birth mother of "Apollo Justice", so simply showing that Lamiroir is US/Japanese/Whatever citizen Thalassa Gramarye would be sufficient. Besides, he's bending the rules to get her to use the MASON system. Hardly the first time that something like this has happened.
  • Where was Apollo when Thalassa is shot? She's his mother, but there is no reference to him during Phoenix's entire half of 4-4.
    • Perhaps Magnifi, his grandfather, took care of him between Thalassa's shooting and his own death? Though this means Apollo would have to have been sent elsewhere (adoptive parents?) after Magnifi fell too ill to take care of him, though.
      • But then shouldn't Apollo know who Thalassa is and that Trucy is :his sister?
      • There is evidence that Apollo recognizes Thalassa on some level. Think back to what he thinks when he meets her during case 3:
      Apollo: (I can't put my finger on why, but I like this Lamiroir.)
      • ...suggesting that there's a faint degree of familiarity, say, if he'd last seen her when he was very young. As for Trucy, well, if the shooting happened when they were both relatively young, then Zak and Magnifi probably didn't let their personal lives mingle very much after that...
    • This troper was confused by the entire idea that Apollo doesn't know who Troupe Gramarye is even though theyare his family, so I looked back in the game. Here is the story: Thalassa, part of the troupe, married another performer. She went off with him for a year and had Apollo. Her husband died, she gave up the baby for adoption, came back to the troupe and pretended nothing happened. She then married Zak and had Trucy before getting shot when Trucy was around four.
      • Five, actually.
      • This troper agrees with this theory, mostly because Zak seemed surprised when you mention that Thalassa had a son.
      • And also, even if Apollo doesn't remember Trucy's name specifically, if he'd been living with the Grammaryes around the time of the accident, you'd think he'd be old enough to remember at least having a sister. But he doesn't.
    • My question is, why did Thalassa give up Apollo? I get why she would give him one of her bracelets (she would be able to identify him if she ever saw him again), but why couldn't she take him with her when she went back to Troupe Gramarye? Was she forbidden to go back unless she gave him up?
      • She may have considered keeping Apollo to be too painful of a reminder of her first marriage or something similar. That, or she thought that having the child she had with a different performer, outside the troupe, would make things too awkward either for Apollo or for everyone else. I don't think it's stated in-game, but either of those explanations are pretty plausible.
    • Thalassa never brought him back after his father died. Spirit of Justice explains why.
  • How did Lamiroir wake up in Borginia after being shot when the group was probably in America/Japan during the rehearsal?
    • Magnifi probably smuggled her out of the country to maintain the illusion that she was dead and so his hold on Zak and Valant. He's the sort of person to know people that could take care of her there.
    • That's an unsolved mystery with no currently known answer, which means that it'll probably be resolved in a sequel. Apollo's backstory isn't done for yet.
    • They're traveling performers. There's no reason to believe they couldn't have been in Borginia, rehearsing for a Borginian performance, when Lamiroir was shot. That seems to be the simplest explanation. The much bigger mystery to me is why Magnifi even saw fit to make Lamiroir disappear in the first place, instead of just getting her medical attention. Unless Magnifi didn't know she survived?
  • Considering Trucy's father is Zak Gramarye, why is she not the slightest bit tan? I don't get how she could possibly be that pale.
    • She takes after her mom?
    • It's also possible that Zak has an acquired tan.
    • Trucy does look a LOT like her mom. Which leads to the odd fact that Apollo looks a lot like her dad.
      • Very odd considering that her dad is not his dad...
      • In Spirit of Justice, wee see that Apollo looks much more like his own dad than Trucy's dad. The very few similarities between Apollo and Zak is merely a coincidence. Strangers with no blood ties can look similar.

    Turnabout Chessmaster?! 
Not an actual case (yet), this is more about Phoenix Wright's actions overall

  • Phoenix's entire moral stance in the game. Yes, I understand he basically gained the attitude that "because he's not a lawyer he doesn't need to stick to the rules", but it's completely hypocritical. Why are we spending most of the game wanting to not believe that Phoenix tried to pass off forged evidence as legit in a murder trial, when we've just seen him do that exact same thing, and admit to it, in the first episode of the game? Why are we clearing the name of someone who is a knowing hypocritical forger, and someone who clearly doesn't think the rules of legal proceedings apply to those outside the lawyer profession, which is complete garbage. Why do they expect us to swallow the fact that Phoenix didn't do anything wrong just because he technically didn't do anything illegal? His daughter was the one who made the card, and he never once claimed it was THE fifth ace are just cheap ways of trying to make his forgery seem like it wasn't morally corrupt when it was by a long shot. For starters, even if he didn't forge it, he ORDERED HIS DAUGHTER TO, which was the same as him being suspected of ordering Misham to forge the diary page. And he knowingly got a strange girl to give Apollo the "fifth ace", so that he would present in the trial thinking it's real. This is EXACTLY the same as what Kristoph did. There's literally no difference, the only difference here is that this didn't result in Apollo getting disbarred. If you think back to Phoenix's final trial, he presents the forged page and never once claims it to be from the diary then either. He shows it and everyone just assumes that's what he was trying to point out. Not only does all this completely destroy Phoenix's personality, but it also makes him no worse then the game's MAIN VILLAIN. Phoenix's plan was literally exactly the same as Kristoph's apart from Kristoph did it for greedy reasons while Phoenix did it for the sake of the truth. But it's made pretty clear in Dual Destinies that even if a lawyer is doing it for legit reasons, it's still an unforgivable act.
    • Because we, the audience know that Phoenix is not the person to go forging evidence for defending a client when he can do the same defending by exposing the truth. The first three games bring up the theme of finding the truth, and forging evidence to protect your client is not how Phoenix rolls. He didn't even like defending Matt in JFA but had to because he had leverage against him. He does it here because he knows Kristoph is the culprit and that becomes more apparent as the case unfolds. It's not so much the Ace that is important but how Kristoph responds to it, which if he weren't the killer he shouldn't be protesting about evidence being faked. Not only that but it's implied that a Bloody Ace did exist, but was taken and burned most likely so this is more of a recreation of the evidence.
    • Phoenix's actions against Kristoph are very similar to what he did to Furio Tigre in 3-3 - Lying to the Perp about a certain piece of evidence so that he would accidentally implicate himself in the murder, only that instead of claiming a piece of evidence is something else, he claims that something is a piece of evidence when it's not (And that if Kristoph pointed it out, he's gone). It was not the first time that happened. There's also the fact that Phoenix was sure Kristoph was the one who ordered the forged diary page - he could very well have also done it out of spite, giving a taste of his own medicine - just as how you pointed out how similar their methods of delivering the evidence were.
    • I'm fairly sure that this entire thing is meant to be intentional. As has been pointed out, the two situations with Kristoph and Phoenix parallel each other exactly. Kristoph is basically meant to be Phoenix's parallel. The difference between him and Phoenix is that Phoenix has a generally good-heart and wishes for justice. When his life was destroyed, he didn't get hateful, and go around murdering people (they even made the point of showing how much he didn't blame Vera & Trucy, the two girls who, for all intent-and-purposes, were the cause of the forged evidence). Kristoph is a greedy, and downright psychotic, self-fulfilling attorney. When his life got destroyed, he broke into psychotic revenge, murdered people, and blamed everyone else. Phoenix also wants wants a fair legal system, and purposefully implemented the Jurist System which incorporated common people into proceedings (whether his actions were out of spite or not, is up for debate). Kristoph was violently angry at the idea of a new legal system involving "common mouth breathers". Yet at the same time, Kristoph was a generally skilled lawyer, who was praised on par with Phoenix. He was basically the "Phoenix Wright" of the seven-years-later. The entire parallel is on purpose. Phoenix is the "good guy", Kristoph is the "bad guy", yet Phoenix's actions overlap with Kristoph's own, and Kristoph's reputation is just as good as Phoenix's. It's an example of grey morality.
      • Kristoph didn't go into a psychotic rage over his life being destroyed. He did it for essentially nothing. As for the Jurist System, if Phoenix really cared about a fair legal system, why does he rig the jury?
      • Kristoph's rage is not due to his life being destroyed, but because Phoenix proved, without a shade of a doubt, that he's better. In his twisted mind, Phoenix was a second-rate lawyer, so he did all he could in order to keep his own image as "the coolest attorney of the west" (the reason behind his Black Psyche-Locks). After getting him convicted once, and manipulating the system to get him convicted of another murder without decisive evidence, Kristoph realized it was him, and not Phoenix, who was the second-rate lawyer. Cue Villainous Breakdown.
  • At the end of Apollo Justice, Phoenix goes back to playing piano / cards. Question: why? It is obvious that he misses life as an attorney, and life as a poker player doesn't seem terribly profitable even with Trucy's magic shows and Apollo's detective work on the side. Sure, there is the whole disbarred thing, but I rather doubt that would still be in effect when Apollo and Klavier proved Kristoph Gavin was behind it.
    • I seem to remember reading an English-speaking player's comment/synopsis when the game first came out in Japan that mentioned Phoenix was going to try and get his badge back. Since this isn't mentioned in any other synopsis afterwards, I assumed whoever noted it must have made a mistake in translating it...but it seems a really strange mistake to make. Perhaps it was wishful thinking, or maybe just the logical assumption that Phoenix would retrieve his lawyer-hood. As to why....well, probably the same reason Phoenix was (arguably) given a completely altered personality in the AJ game — the writers wanted the players to side with Apollo and not get too distracted by what Phoenix was up to.
    • He said he'd go back to playing cards for a while, but when talking about his future he did mention that he'd "maybe take the Bar exam again".
      • His specific wording was "Now that I've got some time on my hands, maybe I'll take [piano] lessons. Or maybe I'll take the Bar Exam...again." And then he laughs at the apparent humor.
      • Phoenix's character has always been one where he wants to be able to protect those closest to him. He became a lawyer for that reason specifically. Right now, he doesn't have to be a lawyer to do that, so he may well not try to get his badge back as long as he can still protect Trucy without it.
      • Phoenix does recover his badge in a year or so (in time for Dual Destinies), but he doesn't have it in the chronologically earliest case. Given all that went into getting the Jurist System through, he might have just felt like taking his time. Also, he implies that it still took a while for all of the paperwork to go through, even with Chief Prosecutor Miles Edgeworth helping it along.
    • In Case 4-1, Phoenix admits to forging a piece of decisive evidence. Does that sound like the work of a reputable attorney to you? On top of that, he himself even admits he doesn't belong behind the defense's desk anymore. But then again, we're talking about a guy who somehow became chair of the Jurist System as well.
      • He likely was saying that because it was his only real option. He couldn't have just said "Well somehow this mysterious piece of evidence landed in my lap and I used it," because nobody would believe him. It would be sort of like "The Boy who Cried Wolf," only it would make him sound whiny instead of a liar when the truth came out.
      • It's been a while since I played through 4-1, but IIRC, the forged evidence wasn't so much "decisive"; it was to trick Kristoph into saying that it was fake, since only the killer would know such a thing. Kind of like 2-2; Franziska enters a photograph that everyone knows is illegal, but its purpose wasn't to use as evidence, it was used to give the judge doubt.
      • In fact, it's very much like 3-3, at the end. Phoenix presented the ear medication as if it were decisive evidence; everyone knew he was bluffing, but Furio Tigre fell into the trap anyway because he didn't realize Phoenix's purpose: to get the real criminal to reveal something he shouldn't have known about.
    • Looks like he did get his badge back, as GS5 previews show that Phoenix is the player character again.
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