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  • How old was Sue originally supposed to be? In FF V1 #81, Crystal says "I'm no younger than Sue herself was - when your team was first formed!" and in issue #82, Reed calls Crystal a minor. Does that mean Sue was jailbait when Reed first dated her?
    • She was 17 when they met, and they didn't start dating until she was in college. Johnny's her younger brother, and he's at least 16 when the series starts.
      • Sue and Reed first met years before the team was formed, but at the time of the team's formation she was 17, yes.
  • Yeah... Why has nobody revoked Dr. Doom's diplomatic immunity? Or made an attempt to invade Latveria and remove him from power? I know there's the excuse, Depending on the Writer, that Doom is a great leader and takes care of his own people, but the man is constantly attempting to kill certain private American citizens and openly conspires to conquer the world. There's no arguing it- the man makes long, hammy speeches about these things. The UN isn't the least bit bothered about granting this man diplomatic immunity even after he's used it to commit crimes while avoiding arrest on foreign soil multiple times? SHIELD never sits down and decides to invade Latveria to arrest Doom? Reed Richards can't just go to both groups and ask them to just do this as a favor for all those times he and his family fought off Galactus?
    • Not at the same scale, but... war criminal, drug trafficker, twice dictator Desi Bouterse was elected president of Surinam. The Netherlands, which previously convicted him of these crimes in absentia, is obligated to give him a visa if he goes to an international organization for a state matter.
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    • The same reason other nations with nuclear weapons aren't invaded: deterrence. Only in Doom's case, the potential threat level includes things next to which the contemporary nuclear arsenal of the United States looks like popguns. Reed Richards & SHIELD both ran simulations/projections once of the maximum amount of firepower Doom could unleash if he stopped fighting like a supervillain and instead devoted his resources to an actual full-on war: it began with light-speed anti-matter city-killers fired from orbit and only got worse from there. It's entirely comprehensible why the US government takes no official objection to Doom's ongoing vendetta vs. the Fantastic Four; that is, quite literally, one of the least dangerous things Doom could be doing with his time.
    • The above post sums it up quite nicely, but there are additional reasons as well: many countries in the world are highly reliant on Latveria economically and technologically. It's like the USSR, only functional.
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    • This troper assumed that Doom was awarded and keep his diplomatic immunity because he's either blackmailing or brainwashing the people in other countries responsible; something he's known to do. For all we know, he's already killed and replaced some of them with life-like robots, and they keep renewing his immunity.
    • When Doom was recently sent to Hell the FF swooped in to take over the country. IIRC, it didn't end well for them.
      • The problem, though, was less that Doom was missing and more that the FF botched the situation horribly. They didn't consider that Doom's neighbors would try to annex Latveria and seize Doom's arsenal. They didn't consider the geopolitical ramifications of a bunch of Americans randomly declaring they owned a country. And they didn't foresee Reed hatching probably the dumbest plan in FF history to make sure Doom stayed gone, a plan where step one was acting like an enormous asshole to his family and the Latverian people alike.
      • Actually they did consider that the neighbors would try to annex Latveria. That was about half the reason Reed wanted to take it over, the other half being Doom himself
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    • The FF did aid the Latverian resistance once, and they overthrew Doom (I think that was FF #200.) Unfortunately, his replacement was a nutcase and the FF eventually let Doom take over again during John Byrne's run on the series. The message was rather clear: Latveria is better off under Doom. Byrne's interpretation seemed to be "Doom is megalomaniacal supervillain to the outside world, but he really does love Latveria.
    • There's also the legal standpoint: Diplomatic Immunity is not handed out by the United Nations, but rather recognized by individual states. The only one who could revoke Doom's diplomatic immunity is Doom himself (as the ruler of the country of Latveria), which is not only unlikely but a legal tautology. (Individuals may not waive their own immunity, you see — a fact that helps keep a lot of diplomats out of prison.)
    • Easy: Status Quo Is God

  • Crime fighting. Sure, if Terrax is smashing buildings, the Fantastic Four would step in and stop things. But how many crimes could Johnny Storm stop just by flying high and keeping his eyes open? Sue needs to tell him to get off his ass and start melting mugger's knives.
    • Who says he hasn't?
    • It should be noted in fairness that, in the Comics!Verse, at least, New York City isn't exactly lacking in super-powered do-gooders in costumes fighting crimes.
    • Also, stopping crimes isn't actually Johnny's job — or, while we're on the subject, the job of the many other super-powered do-gooders going around in costumes fighting crime either. It's the job of the police department. Johnny's abilities may lend themselves to crime-fighting, but there's nothing that says that Johnny has to go around fighting crime if that's not something he particularly wants to do. Perhaps not very socially constructive of him, but there you are.

  • The page image over on Took a Level in Badass ...Great, yea, we know Sue Storm isn't useless and is indeed the most dangerous member of the FF. But when did that happen? I don't recall the last time she fought Magneto, and the only time I know of her fighting Red Hulk was as part of a team that still nearly got squashed. Her taking Loki is laughable at best(same goes for anyone else in the FF), and I don't remember hearing about that, either. Can't recognize anyone else in the pile up at first glance. Was that just a promotional image, fan art, or did that actually happen?
  • Has the Fantastic four ever met the Punisher?
    • Sue and Johnny met him during Civil War, though I don't know if this was their first meeting (Johnny seems well aware of the Punisher's reputation).
  • Does Dr. Doom have the technology around to repair his face, or does he just choose not to? I mean he's done plenty of others stuff that make it seem like he could do that easily.
    • IIRC, there's a few handwaves doing the rounds. A general one is that it's part of his whole insane "I hate Reed Richards SO VERY MUCH" complex; the scars act as a constant reminder of what Reed 'did' to him, and he keeps them around to fuel his hatred and thus inspire his vendetta. Presumably according to this explanation, once he finally bests Reed once and for all, he'll cure them; insane, perhaps, but then this is a guy who's built a career as a supervillain dictator out of what pretty much amounts to little more than spite — he's a fucking insane guy. Alternatively, some later explanations suggest that Doom's scars are magical or supernatural in nature and that these various techniques won't work to cure them, in a sort of 'science can't fix what magic has wrought' kind of thing.
      • For the record, his blaming Reed is less out-of-the-blue than most people think. The night before he tried the device, Doom found Reed with his notes, saying he had some suggestions. Doom thinks Reed tampered with them. True, his beliefs were incredibly paranoid and not exactly justified, but he still had a reson to think Reed sabotaged him. (Albeit not a very good one.)
    • Going by one explanation of their origin, the scars were seared into his face by the fires of Hell when Doom tried to technologically breach the afterlife. That's probably not fixable with plastic surgery.
    • Back in the day, Dr. Donald Blake was more than just Thor's mortal identity. He was one of the premiere medical minds and top surgeons of the M.U. Doom recruited Blake for a face-fixing consultation. Upon seeing Doom's face, Blake recoiled in horror and stated unequivocally, "There is nothing medical science can do! Nothing!!"
  • If Dr. Doom still has his time machine laying around, why doesn't he just use to kill Reed Richards before he got his powers?
    • He probably sees that as too 'lowly' for someone like himself. Odds are he wants to kill him in a grand fight, or execute him in Latveria.
    • Because attempting things like that has worked so well so far. Besides, even if he succeeded, doesn't he know that would be pointless? I'm sure Dr. Doom knows that Death Is Cheap for major heroes, so why even bother when he knows Richards has returned from death in the past.
      • Even better - the "Many Worlds" time travel hypothesis is absolute fact for time travel in the MU. So if Doom goes into the past and just shoots a 17 year old Reed Richards, all he has done is create an alternate reality where Reed Richards died young, and returning to the present would still see Mr Fantastic in charge of the FF. In fact, it's possible that Doom did just that a few dozen times after inventing said time machine.
      • Additionally, Doom once invented a time machine that would avoid the "Many Worlds" problem. Reed countered by building a 'a time-traveller is trying to kill me in the past' alarm device.
      • Okay, this is getting re-goddamn-diculous.
      • When Doom got the power of the Beyonder, he pretended to reform and said if he could, he would go back in time and undo every evil deed he ever performed, but to do so would unrevel large parts of the timestream. Even current evil Doom would know that eliminating Reed Richards in the past would alter his own past, effectively eliminating himself as well.
    • Possibly because Doom needs Reed around more than he likes to admit. Sure, he could go back and kill Reed as a lowly college student and get him out of his life once and for all. And Then What?? Killing Reed in the past won't change Doom's life for the better, because all the problems in Doom's life that he blames Reed for were, when all is said and done, Doom's own fault; if nothing changes, all he's left with is proof that Reed was faultless and Doom's got no one to blame but himself. And on top of that, he's lost his foil, the focal point for all that rage and hatred and jealousy that drove him on to greater and more terrible things in order to win and prove himself. Doom might hate Reed, but Doom arguably needs Reed, much more than Reed needs Doom around. (And that fact probably makes him even more resentful.)
    • In “Dr. Doom and the Masters of Evil,” Doom himself claimed that he sees Richards as necessary, as Doom believes he can’t be a “great hero” without a “great villain” like Richards to push Doom to his limits.
  • Why does Dr. Doom have a bunch of robots that look exactly like him and do things that even he, Depending on the Writer, would consider immoral, or act like except for getting beaten or killed? They really don't seem to have any purpose beyond an Author's Saving Throw, and even then, if Doom's robots are acting in a way that the writer says he wouldn't, doesn't that mean would act that way himself his robots aren't known for acting without his orders.
    • In-story reason: AI Is A Crap Shoot, even for geniuses like Doom. (Reed and Tony don't exactly have unblemished records with AI research either.) Out-of-story reason: The entire point of Doombots is to allow unpopular actions of Doom to be retconned away.
      • Also, if you have as many people trying to pulverize you as Doom does, its a good day when the body double gets blown up instead of you.
  • If Doom wanted to kill Richards so badly, then how come back right after his accident he didn't just go get a gun and shoot him? Surely Doom is smart enough to clear a simple murder. Or is it not so much that he wants to kill Richards as he wants to assert his superiority over him?
    • Exactly. He wants to prove he's smarter than Reed.
    • Plus, well, this is a guy who, on being scarred in an unfortunate college accident, responded by donning a literal suit of armour and a hooded cape, taking over a country, moving into a castle, developing oodles of hyper-advanced superweapons of mass destruction and setting himself up as an emperor-dictator-warlord, all for the sole purpose of avenging himself on the person he held responsible. Victor Von Doom is not interested in the simple, sensible, practical solution. Victor Von Doom shits on the simple, sensible, practical solution.
    • Plus, it's entirely possible-if-not-likely that Doom, deep down, needs Reed around more than he lets on. He hates Reed with a passion, but his hatred for Reed is partly what keeps him going, is what's inspired him to the powerful, terrible heights that he's achieved for himself. Subconsciously, he doesn't do any of the simpler things because he feels that if Reed's gone, he might just stagnate.
  • So, the writers say stuff about Doom being 2nd to Reed in science, but is he really? Doom seems to be more physics breaking machines than Reed does.
    • He was also the only one besides Nick Fury who didn't need someone to scream "hey, we're being invaded by Skrulls" in his face, while Reed was actually sleeping with one.
    • To be fair, Doom does combine science and sorcery sometimes, which may justify it.
    • At one point they might have been equals, and in some ways they still are. Where they differ in their specialties: Doom can build time machines and clunky death machines, while Reed opens portals to other dimensions and sophisticated super-computers. What Doom doesn't have is Reed's one advantage, that being the fact that his brain is just as flexible as the rest of his body, and thus allowing it adapt when he's thinking on a problem. What Reed doesn't have is Doom's ruthlessness and background in the mystic arts.
    • If we're being brutally honest, Doom already teeters precariously on the edge of being a total Villain Sue at the best of time. Making him inferior to Reed is just a way of the writers giving him some flaws to prevent him from falling all the way in and being Literally The Best At Everything Ever Oh My God Wow You Guys, Except Also Evil. He can't be number one at absolutely everything, otherwise he's just utterly boring.
  • In the 90's cartoon, Galactus (devourer of worlds) has trouble defeating Ego (the living planet). Anyone else see the flaw in the logic here?
    • Most planets don't put up a fight.
    • Ego is powerful to fight him in the comics, he can fight him in the adaption.
    • Just because you eat a lot of beef doesn't mean you can beat up a cow (or a bull) who's intent on not being eaten.
      • Yeah, but Galactus doesn't have to kill, cook, season, and serve a planet to eat it.
      • Actually he does have to kill a planet before eating it sometimes. The metaphor still counts as Galactus is encountering a planet that doesn't want to be eaten, and can has the capability to do something about it.
  • Where do the ideas of Reed being a Villain with Good Publicity that only hasn't tried taking over the world because Doom keeps diverting his attention come from? If Reed were really that, wouldn't he kill Doom the first chance he gets so he's out of the way?
    • You're asking how a theory on this site makes sense? How many WMG pages can you find that don't suspect someone of being a Time Lord?
    • In several cases at least, it seems to be a straightforward Draco in Leather Pants/Ron the Death Eater scenario, with all the logical holes that implies; people think Doom is awesome and should be the hero, and they don't like Reed and think he should be the villain. Ergo, the most simplistic way of reconciling the fact that Reed is actually the good guy and Doom is the bad guy is that Reed is actually the bad guy, but it's only because Doom is around that no one realises it. This also has the advantage of still (kinda) making Doom the good guy because he's actually being all heroic and selfless (or something) in giving Reed a target to focus on so he's not destroying the world. It's tenuous and requires large heapings of denial and ignoring facts to suit a preferred interpretation, but then, that's kind of what these tropes are all about to begin with.
  • Does Dr. Doom still carry a torch for Sue? Why not have her cloned? It may be beneath him, but a clone can be 100% loyal if you educate it long enough. It wouldn't defy him. Hell, he can create a daughter or son in a lab if he wanted to.
    • It's about pride. Doom doesn't just want someone who looks like Sue. He wants to win Sue herself over.
    • Doom doesn't have feelings for Sue. In fact, he hates her just as much as Johnny and Ben (he obviously hates Reed more than all three of them combined). If he ever did pursue her romantically, it was just to spite Reed.
  • I'm not bashing Dr. Doom, but do Doombots make him look lazy and cowardly at times? Don't get me wrong, Doom is one of my favorite villains, but writers rely on the bots too much. I can understand using decoys and fakes for dangerous missions, but using them in regular fights? It also seems a little arrogant for a writer to do that. Like, he doesn't want his favorite villain to lose. They can't make Doom fight his own battles?
    • All the good master villains use minions; Doom just makes his own.
    • I always assumed that the real reason Doom used Doombots was because he was always busy with something he thought more important at the time (like, for example, plotting to steal an Infinity Gem while a Doombot was trying to blow up Avengers Mansion)
    • Maybe, but is this really a problem? Doom has to have some character flaws and weaknesses otherwise he just becomes a boring Villain Sue who's the perfect guy who's best at everything ever, except also evil. Maybe Doom should be a little bit cowardly and lazy, as it contrasts nicely with his preening and self-glorifying vision of himself.
  • All the problem in FF 16-17. Doom finally gets an Infinity Gauntlet, makes a whole universe perfectly balanced with magic/science inhabited by beings he created that embodies both. And then almost instantly loses the Gauntlet to said beings because "they were made in the image of Doom". Somehow Valeria knows about Doom's plight and that causes the Fantastic Four to rescue Doom, and who when rescued says "I was God, and I found it beneath me."
    • One, how could he have allowed the gems to be taken from them, with the mind gem he would have known their thoughts of rebellion immediately and could have paralyzed their minds or subdued, with the time gem he could have frozen them in time and then reverse it before they could act, with the reality gem he could have deleted them or changed them, with the power gem he could have overpower them, and with the soul gems he could have sensed their intentions and changed their true natures into submissive slaves without rebellious thought.
    • Two, how did Valeria know about Doom's plight, and why did the Fantastic Four bother saving their greatest adversary.
    • Three, Doom thinks being God and the ruler of an universe beneath him, but somehow being the ruler of a tiny country, and a tiny planet to be perfectly fitting?
      • Since when has Doom been satisfied with just ruling Latveria? It's his base of operation, from which he launches his campaigns to become the supreme ruler of everything. Plus, while the way he rules it and regards its people is Depending on the Writer, it's clear he has some kind of personal attachment to it. There, he feels at home. Ruling the whole universe probably just reminded him of all the other universes he wasn't ruling. You could also read it as him bullshitting himself. "Well, I didn't really want to be a god anyway."
    • Fourth, Valeria saying "Here I can build." I believed it when Doom said it only an issue or two ago. Hearing it from her just makes it look like she's stealing Doom's lines.
  • In the first arc of Millar's FF run, Reed runs into an old college flame of his who reveals that she's part of a conspiracy to build an alternate Earth and then move all the rich people to it, because 'our thinktank of the most brilliant minds in the world has calculated that the Earth will undergo irreversible ecological collapse in ten years'. Where do we begin with all the wrongness here...
    • One: in every single alternate future shown in Marvel Comics up to that time, this hasn't actually happened.
      • The answer to this one is in the word 'alternate'. They're possible futures, not absolutely guaranteed to happen futures. Presumably they split off and formed their own timeline before the events that led to the "irreversible ecological collapse" alternate future.
    • Two: any group of people that claims to be "the most brilliant minds on Earth" in Earth-616 when their group does not contain Reed Richards, Victor von Doom, or Tony Stark (one of whom had visibly just met these people and two more who were never mentioned anywhere in this arc), is lying out their ass. I have no idea how Reed even kept a straight face when he heard that one.
    • Three: even assuming that their claim of 'the Apocalypse is nigh! Ecological devastation will have us all dead within a decade!' was somehow true, between Cosmic Cubes, the Silver Surfer, and half a dozen other plot devices Reed's made friends with, fought, or stashed in his closet over the decades of published comics, Reed could figure out a way to turn 'devastated and depleted planetary biosphere' into 'perfectly OK now!' in, what, a day? A day and a half?
      • The omake potential is irresistible:
      Victor von Doom: Is this one of those stupid things where Doom has to work with you in the name of self interest? Will it take longer than one afternoon?
    • Four: Building your own artificial planet Earth (which is what the antagonists were doing) would require construction materials massing literally as much as the entire planet Earth. If she's got a budget like that already, what the hell does she need rich people as customers for? Furthermore, if she's somehow got so much construction capacity and raw material she can make a planet from scratch, why the hell can't she just fix an already existing planet with it? Sci-Fi Writers Have No Sense of Scale, big time.
  • There is a panel where Sue and Black Panther are nude in a lake, but there is no "hanky panky". This raises so many questions. How did they get in that situation? What married woman would be comfortable being naked in a lake in front of another man?
    • T'Challa is from a fictional culture and so can have any cultural rules the author wants to give him, such as not having a strong nudity taboo. It is odd for Susan, though, as she's an upper-middle-class American and has always been presented as being largely conventional.
      • Susan can turn any part of herself invisible at will, she's only ever as exposed as she's comfortable being.

  • Is Doctor Doom ever actually shown eating or drinking anything? I know that his suit is supposed to take care of his vitals for him, so he might not need to do those things, but the image used on his tropes page shows him holding a glass of what is presumably alcohol, and every time I see it I think, ”How is he supposed to drink that with the mask on?” Is there any explanation?
    • Yes. There have been many scenes of Doom drinking from a goblet, and one of the last panels in X-Men vs Fantastic Four has Doom about to eat caviar spread on toast. In that panel, it appears that the metal grille protecting his mouth automatically slides up so he may eat. While his armor has an emergency nutrient supply for when Doom is stranded in space, Doom dosen't wear it 24/7. He's shown taking baths and relaxing in robes or casual clothing occasionally. We can assume that he eats and drinks on a regular basis.

  • I'm perplexed by how Ben Grimm was shown to not understand Pig Latin in the 1994 cartoon in the three-parter that introduced Dr. Doom. Sure, Ben's not exactly a rocket scientist, but there's no way he could be that dim.
    • The writers needed someone to ask what Pig Latin is so that it could be explained it for the benefit of any audience members who might need it explained to them, and Ben happened to draw the short straw on that one.


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