Discussion YMMV / YuGiOhArcV

It makes sense from several standpoints. a) It's been clarified by Aster, who brings it up again, that the dimensional integration will restore the people that were sealed into cards. b) His card is the most likely to be the closest, given that Sylvio hung onto it. c) He has experience with this kind of thing, given his duel with Yuya.

The fact that it's justified to some extent doesn't mean that people didn't react to this poorly. Or maybe I need to frequent some other threads to find if there is people who don't mind it.

EDIT: I just looked and it's not just 4Chan. Reddit is also split over this.

Pojo has a passive, but not positive reaction to it too.

Neoarkcraddle doesn't like it either but tries to take it in stride. The keyword being tries.

True. I could go on a tirade about how misplaced peoples' hate and feelings for Crow are and they'd still accuse him of this (and as you said, even if it's justified it's still an example).

True. I could go on a tirade about how misplaced peoples' hate and feelings for Crow are and they'd still accuse him of this (and as you said, even if it's justified it's still an example).

The Neoarkcradle link also shows that the fans believing that there is a 5Ds favoritism and some disliking it is also a thing.

Considering they go out of their way for Declan to call him out on how stupid the entire plan is and condemn him for his actions, I'd say there's some intention. Though looking back, I may have jumped the gun a little.

So, do I erase that? Should it be tweaked?

Hmmm...I think it needs more input from other people. Unless he's a straight-up Hate Sink (which doesn't seem likely given the points you've mentioned), then it should probably stay. I'll comment it out for now though while it gets sorted.

He seems Unintentionally Unsympathetic to me.

The problem with that entry is that it doesn't talk about Arc Fatigue. That is when the arc drags on for too long without anything happening. The thing is that this arc was short and there was a good amount of stuff happening. The way the entry is written makes it just picking out an arc that the writer didn't like and saying its problems.

Given that the trope in itself is a YMMV the perception of what good things happened in that arc is subjective. And if the argument of "lots of good stuff happened" which again its completely subjective depending on who you ask, is going to be a valid argument, then what about the other entries under the trope? For example I could say that despite its flaws, the Synchro Arc feature lots of good things happening and in the same way make its entry for Arc Fatigue invalid based on said opinion.

And in case the actual length of the arc measured in episodes of the arc is an issue, then why is there an entry about the Qualifying mini-arc? Because some people thought it qualified (pun not intended) for the trope right? Despite objectively being only 6 episodes ( 9 if we count the in-between episodes) people who added that entry thought it was too long, or why is there one for the plot involving Dennis being a traitor? When at best it could be called a character arc? Especially when the portion of the fanbase not liking Dennis and his character have been small? Again because isn't that what YMMV tropes like these are for?

Either way back on topic, the Xyz arc featured about 13 episodes (11 if we took out the ones focused on the Fusion dimension) and I could say that based the opinion of one part of the fandom - which comes with the definition of a YMMV trope - we couldn't wait to see the arc ending, and the entry details the reasons why we thought the writing in it was not the greatest, which I wrote based in the same vein the bullet of both the Synchro and the Qualifying arcs are written as well.

I really don't understand why there was a need to bring this to the discussion, but that's my argument.

The thing about those entries.

The Qualifying Mini Arc probably shouldn't count because it's just a case of people not liking the duels rather than the arc itself dragging.

The Syncro Arc counts because first the spend 13 episodes doing nothing but run around with few things happening, then there is a 30 episode tournament arc with not much happening, then finally the climactic revolution comes. The arc is considered by the fandom to be too long with not much happening.

The arc with Dennis, while not much of an arc, is still an arc nonetheless. And I haven't heard very much of it. However, I can't really find any opinions about it, so I can't say much about it. But not liking him and thinking his arc drags are different things.

But the thing with the Xyz entry is that it contradicts other opinions that it was rushed which are even on this very page. I've looked best I can for such opinions and I can't really find them. All opinions I see on the Xyz arc is that it is done too soon. And the entry doesn't talk about if it actually drags.

YMMV is supposed represent either the fanbase as a whole or at least a significant portion. If the page itself contradicts your entry, then it's saying something about the way the fandom feels.

The thing is that you seem to be thinking that Arc Fatigue is when you don't like an arc. It's not. It's when an arc drags for far too long. The way you are using it is Square Peg Round Trope.

Ok addressing it by points as you did:

I have no strong feelings for the Qualifying mini-arc - don't hate it but I don't love it either - I was just pointing out that by your definition of the Arc Fatigue of "dragging for too long" the entry may not go therewhen it was just 6 episodes.

Arc Fatigue it's an Audience Reaction trope making it a subjetive trope by its mere defintion, and I'm here telling you that there is a portion of the fandom that don't think that nothing happened during 13 episodes of the arc, that is your and other people opinion, which of course you're in your total right to have, does the people thinking the Synchro Arc was too long outnumber the ones who don't? Definitely, but when it comes to subjetive tropes like the ones from Audience Reactions the number of people holding x or y opinion is irrelevant the moment someone voices it and/or starts disscusing it among the fandom.

The fact that even though you admit to not seen yet any opinions regarding Dennis arc but still admit that the entry may have validity because some people - not the majority of it - has that opinion, kinda reflects what I'm trying to point out here.

Here here, here, here and here are some negative opinions about different things that happened in the Xyz arc, it really wasn't that hard to find them, if you need more, tell me and I'll find them for you *shrugs*, I could probably rewrite the entry, or add something like "Some people felt the arc dragged for the following reasons..." and the entry would fit IMO.

I'm sorry but have you ever been to the YMMV main page? The laconic page practicaly says: A way to say "I disagree with it". Don't say it or "I disagree with it" in articles. and that's without pointing out the coroner quote of the article:

Some like to stay at the YMMV

While others find it a bad place to be

Did that joke make you laugh?

Did the fanservice appeal?

It depends on just how you feel...

I'm not going to explain the article to you, but basically the main page details that different Audience Reactions do fit into the YMMV pages.

That doesn't permit you to add any opinion whatsoever.

And the articles are not abou how the ar slogged. They were just negative reactions. That is not Arc Fatigue.

I'm pretty sure that as long as you don't break the site's guidelines, insult someone directly or do plain trolling, the whole point of having YMMV pages is to have different opinions, regardless of how many people hold it or disagree with it.

Being the Audience Reaction trope that it is, the feeling of an arc dragging and not adding anything to the plot is not inmediate it starts to build slowly through piling up these negative reactions to what happens in said arc which ultimately leave you wishing that the arc ended already.

Again I can rewrite the entry, but ultimately the reasons mentioned in the initial entry would stay anyway, because they are the source of that eventual reaction.

I did state that the links where for negative reactions an one of them actually says: Ultimately, I've never seen a point into going to Xyz cuz it's dead and destroyed... and anotther one says: xyz arc shoulda never been a thing since it didn’t add anything... and this chat post too, if that doesn't give the Arc Fatigue vibe then I don't know what does.

The problem with that is the way you see YMMV. You can't just place any opinion in there. That is not the way it works. There has to be a significant backing. And the link above shows that the poster knows/believes where that significant backing is.

Plus this is in defiance with a rule: all pages, no matter what, must have a consistent POV. Even if it's YMMV.

I already asked to the moderator (Septimus Heap in case you want to ask yourself) and they outright told me that YMMV pages collect opinions, that they don't have to be internally consistent, and that one should avoid to erase opinions.

So really I think that as long as I rewrite the entry to fit the Arc Fatigue trope, I'm allowed to put it.

The Xyz Arc is thought of being too short by the fanbase, AKA the opposite of Arc Fatigue. Unless a trope is made about arcs that go for too short (Unless that is They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot), it isn't this trope.

I think we already established that this trope being an Audience Reaction tropes means it's subjective, and even thought it shouldn't have been necessary I already showed proof of people who felt the arc dragged for too long, and again that considering some of the examples in that trope, the actual lenght of the arc is hardly a factor when some people in an audience think that said arc (or mini-arc) should be over already.

If we're are going to be policing adding examples of YMMV tropes on basis of literal definition of the trope's title then all the examples not including an actual arc should be erased too, because by definition a "Story Arc" is an over-achieving story-line, not a plot point, or a reveal.

I think he already earned it before.

No, I believe that it still applies. Even at its poorest, the show is likely still seen as better than ZEXAL overall.

Actually, I have seen people saying that ZEXAL is starting to look better than ARC-V now.

Oh, and I forgot: Apparently people think that the Big Bad and The Dragon are very underused.

Hmm. I haven't. That's very true. Leo is a terrible antagonist, and Yuri is underused. That being said, it's a big series and the reaction still applies given the start.

What they say is that ZEXAL goes from bad to good, while Arc-V started good but failed to deliver.

One opinion that I have seen a lot is that the best episode is episode 34. That's... Too early in the show.

Maybe it's an extreme example of They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot and They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character.

I hold the opinion that ZEXAL got better and stayed that way overall, but fluctuated in how good stuff was, but now we're REALLY getting into YMMV. Just because the best episode was early in the show doesn't mean that the rest is inferior. As for those tropes, there's already enough about them on the page already.

Hold off on this I think, since a) it could still happen and b) it's been stated in canon that storming Duel Academy is suicide.

Alright.

I was a little disappointed that they whisked away Yugo before Yuzu and friends go to do anything and focused on Yuya ending the conflict in Xyz so Yuzu did mostly nothing within that time frame until Yuya caught up but it can't be helped. I'll wait a while first though.

I'd say so. Maybe keep it for Yu-Gi-Oh! characters though, since many of the similarities are likely intentional.

That's a question for this thread.

For clean-up, do you want to make more pages? Or simply rewrite things to shorten them and get rid of things that aren't as relevant anymore. Things like Base Breaker could probably be worked over to be shortened since they have a lot of old opinions. Epileptic Trees is almost more of an extension of the more popular WMG entries.

And I will admit to adding useless crap too.

I think Crowning Music Of Awesome can have its own page though?

Edit: apparently there is a collective Yu Gi Oh franchise Awesome Music page. I'm in the process of copying things over to it.

Yanked a few out of The Scrappy since they're Hate Sink characters. Is putting Memetic Badass and the like on the Memes page acceptable? And should we move the Narm/Narm Charm entries over to the general Yu-Gi-Oh! one if there is one?

Sanokal

Went ahead and moved the Narm entries to the Collective Yu Gi Oh Narm page.

The page is a mess in general, folderization would make cleaning it up easier.

Alright. I'll folderize it. How many?

The 3 you made are good.

No, that needs its own page(s).

Oops, that's not what I meant. I mean can we use materials from the abridged series as an example here?

Same answer - it does not belong here.

Then I'll remove that entry under the Launcher of A Thousand Ships. I'll also start making the abridged page right now.

For old time's sake, with until Jack, aka one of the poster boys for this trope, shows up. After that, definitely for Ho Yay. Maybe wait for Memetic Mutation?

Well, evidently someone disagrees with you (and uses Expy too loosely).

The problem is that I think he might be a Base Breaker even without taking into account the Lua thing, but I don't know how I should re-write the entry. I need advice from someone more versed in this area.

But I'm definitely taking that Expy entry on the characters page down.

Well, The Scrappy is a trope about unpopular characters not about "characters that suck" so your argument doesn't quite work.

Well, if I'm right, I'm figuring he'll be getting pretty unpopular soon. And I didn't mean that the Scrappy means characters that suck. Don't take everything so literally.

You did say "Fat-toshi sucks" so I do take it as given. Same for "He's so ***ing annoying" which means the same thing.

I guess I just have trouble saying what I mean.

Sorry, wrong place, please, delete this reply later