Characters Pokemon Protagonists And Rivals Discussion

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04:54:34 PM Dec 11th 2016
I've seen this listed on Bulbapedia, but where was it stated Red (and by extension, Blue) is 21? It also listed Wally as 20, but it didn't cite that either.
05:30:10 PM Dec 11th 2016
Supposedly Sun and Moon takes place about a decade after the Hoenn and Kanto games, but there is no specific source for that, just extrapolations based on several sources that no one bothered to cite.
09:43:39 PM Dec 11th 2016
I think that reasoning's that:

  • Anabel mentions that she was found by the International Police 10 years ago, only remembering her name, home region, and that she was guarding the Battle Town.
  • The concept art for Grimsley mentions that he's two years older than he was in BW2, which means SM take place two years after Gen VI since it's concurrent with BW2.
  • If you assume that Anabel was first found roughly around the same time ORAS takes place, and that it shares the same place in the timeline as Emerald in the pre-Gen VI verse, then indeed SM takes place around a decade following the Kanto and Hoenn games. (Coincidentally, that assumption also means there's a roughly three year gap between Gen IV and BW1.)
10:40:38 PM Dec 17th 2016
So, this means that the returning characters have no confirmed age?
08:17:55 PM Jan 5th 2017
09:47:22 AM Dec 11th 2016
Hey, where did the names of Kai and Lana for the Sun and Moon characters come from? I haven't heard of them before, so I'm just curious.
11:48:35 PM Dec 6th 2016
Wouldn't the first main protagonist that's shirtless be fanservice instantly? Considering that Shirtless Scene is a fanservice trope after all.
08:02:30 AM Dec 7th 2016
1. No, shirtlessness in the ocean isn't necessarily fanservice. Think something more along the lines of justified Walking Swimsuit Scene.

2. The character in question is explicitly around eleven. No way would the developers explicitly sexualize (which is what fanservice is) a kid especially not to an all-ages game franchise like Pokemon.
08:41:48 PM Nov 20th 2016
Considering that Gladion turned out to be the true rival in Sun and Moon, should he or at least a link be added to the page?
11:05:22 AM Nov 18th 2016
For the protagonists of Sun and Moon, should we dub them Elio and Selene as a temporary placeholder?
12:18:39 PM Nov 18th 2016
Works for me.
08:57:03 PM Oct 27th 2016
...Wait, was it ever stated that Red is 17 in Black and White? I thought it took place a vague amount of years after gen II and IV?
06:51:34 PM Oct 23rd 2016
edited by acrobox
  • Mighty Whitey: A foreigner is welcomed into an exotic culture, learns their ways, and becomes their strongest champion by completing the Rite of the Island Challenge. Slightly subverted in that their default light-skinned appearance isn't white but rather Asian, specifically Kantonese / Japanese as a real world equivalent.

Was deleted with this reason.

Reason: "Character moves into new region and becomes champion" is a staple trope of the series and doesn't stop being a thing just because the home region happens to be brown this time, especially when the mother is looks Alolan herself and there's no determined skintone for the protagonist.

I agree that "Character moves into new region and becomes champion" is a staple trope (for instance you start the Hoenn games literally in a a moving van, and I believe the protagonist is from Johto)

The emphasis here is on the exotic culture. In a move from Johto to Hoenn you still have gyms, you still speak the same language, you still have the same regional variants of the pokemon, etc. And moving from Johto to Hoenn, you're still in Japan.

In a move from Kanto to Alola people act differently, dress differently, greet each other differently (Alola!) base their culture around different traditions and gods and legendaries (island guardians). Regional pokemon have different Alola forms. There are no gyms but instead trial captains and kahunas. Even Oricorio has a form that 'reminds the player of home.'

That in addition to the trailers with Shohei and Hoku as standins for Sun and Hau are all about acculturating the Japanese kid to Hawaii.

The games and marketing have gone out of their way to emphasize how different and exotic Alola is compared to other regions, specifically Kanto. And the fact that the character is a non-native (unlike Unova which was far away and different, but the main character was a native) further emphasizes the Mighty Whitey trope.

The trope isnt just about being new and becoming the best. Its about being new to a world that is exotic and tribal etc and despite being a cultural foreigner you become the best.

It's not just about Alola being brown. Its about culture.

But if you want to look at it as being about being brown you have to acknowledge there is a certain intent of the default variant of customizable characters, they're the "canon" choice that shows up in marketing, spinoffs and other official materials. And the default appearance isn't even the first choice on the menu, it's the second.

Adding it back in.
07:46:57 AM Oct 25th 2016
Compelling argument.
11:19:20 AM Jun 1st 2016
edited by acrobox
Can we put the rivals go under the same generation banner as the protags. That way you have

Kanto- Red; Leaf; Blue

Kalos - Calem; Serena; Shauna; Tierno; Trevor

Instead of having the protags divided by generation and then just a long list of rivals
08:12:17 PM Jan 5th 2017
Late, but I agree with this.
07:34:53 PM Feb 18th 2015
Why is Blue listed here and not Cheren? They're both rivals in their debut games and gym leaders in the sequels, so either both belong here, or both belong on the gym leaders page.
09:09:07 AM Jun 15th 2014
edited by
Signature Move has been misused on these pages. I've replaced them with Weapon of Choice since that is the idea behind the original entries.
05:38:17 PM Apr 21st 2014
The comments on how the protagonists are treated in the anime seem unnecessary. Could they please be cut?
11:30:17 AM Dec 23rd 2013
edited by
  • Expy: In addition to being the inspiration behind the designs of Ash and Richie, both Gold and Hilbert also took cues from Red's design.
    • Red himself saw a redesign in Pokemon Yellow to make him look more like Ash Ketchum.

I am sure that in this case Fountain of Expies is the appropriate trope. Beyond this, i am not sure if he is closer to an Expy than the local versions of Brock or Misty(Satoshi is one of the standard names and "Red" only was canonized in the sequel.) And, finally, this page mentions that Word of God said that Hilbert was actually inspired in Hilda... can someone confirm this, please?
03:25:48 AM Dec 6th 2013
There's too much mention of Pokémon Origins in Red's and Blue's parts. Origins is as game canon as Pokémon Special or the Pokémon anime.
10:23:03 AM Dec 23rd 2013
Should we remove the voice actors from Pokémon Origins or not? It's not like the B 2 W 2 anime game trailer since Origins actually has a story and made certain liberties with the Gen I plot.
11:04:17 AM Nov 18th 2016
edited by Kytseo
For the protagonists of Sun and Moon, should we dub them Elio and Selene as a temporary placeholder?

EDIT: Ignore this, adding this to the thread was a mistake
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