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openProblematic troper Music
cryptic-immortal has been editing the Music.Muse page and its subpages recently, and many of their edits... Concern me. For example...
- Here, they added a Drinking Game entry to the YMMV page, even though I'm pretty sure that isn't supposed to be linked there.
- On the WMG page, they seem to be indulging in quite a bit of self-natter, complete with the usual First-Person Writing. They're adding natter to the Headscratchers page, too.
- They also have formatting issues, such as when they attempted to add the aforementioned Drinking Game entry on the main page before moving it to YMMV.
- Finally, they have problems with example context, like here.
I have sent notifers to them.
Edited by ChillyBeanBAMopenMusic.BlackstarAlbum gushing Music
I landed on ★ on a whim and I discovered a bit of gushing on the description and the tropes page, mostly related to how much praise it's gotten over years. I'm betting this is due to David Bowie kicking the bucket shortly after its release.
While I did find the description toned down now due to the post I made on the gushing cleanup thread, there's some tropes on the page that still stick out to me, mainly due to troping him as a person rather than the album.
- Bittersweet Ending: "I Can't Give Everything Away" is this to the album as well as David Bowie's career as a whole. He was eaten away by liver cancer, not knowing what his fate would be while recording ★, and died of the disease shortly after the album's release, but was still able to end things off with one hell of a bang.
- Dying Moment of Awesome: Bowie recorded ★ while battling a terminal case of cancer, which took his life two days after this album's official release.
- Face Death with Dignity: The album is essentially Bowie doing this, taking his impending death from cancer and turning it into a work of art.
Bittersweet Ending is NRLEP, but Dying Moment of Awesome and Face Death with Dignity might need to be looked over in the RL matinence thread for being gushy about people dying.
Edited by PlasmaPoweropenReporting a troper Music
ryanisbetter repeatedly insists on listing Lorde as an example of Two-Hit Wonder, ignoring the fact that Madrugada officially ruled against this.
open Suicide warning kosher? Music
The page for Kurt Cobain has a suicide warning on the top of it. Is this kosher? Doesn't seem like it should be.
openReporting a troper Music
In addition to issues with indentation and (to a lesser degree) grammar, JohnHowarth has made bizarre edits (such as asking why Kidz Bop doesn't cover songs about drugs on a Headscratchers page) that may or may not be vandalism/trolling. I've sent him a message regarding his indentation, but I'm mentioning it here in case we need to take action.
Edited by Spinosegnosaurus77openMudvayne and Numetal Music
For the last five years or so, on and off there has been an ongoing issue with NuMetal being part of the Mudvayne page. It has been removed a couple of times usually by the same troper BornnofSelf ban evading. They have used various handles to do this, and when they have been found out usually tropers simply revert the changes, generally it has been accepted that Mudvayne are Numetal. Established via various sources including
https://www.revolvermag.com/music/11-most-iconic-looks-nu-metal-stars
The general consensus has been that the band is Numetal. ' Once again Numetal has been removed from the band page this time by relatively new troper https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Tropers/dognation83. On both the Mudvayne page and the Numetal page with the reasoning Mudvayne is clearly prog-metal with no links to estabilsh this. I am seeking consensus to revert as this has been an ongoing argument I thought resolved with them being established as Numetal.
Edited by TuvokopenSo Bad It's Horrible Music Albums Music
There seems to be an edit war, um, sauntering on Music: Albums . I say "sauntering" because the removed example was taken down a month after it was last added. The entry in question is for the Genesis album Calling All Stations. Page history here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Horrible.MusicAlbums . Perhaps it's time for a discussion?
openIs this troper with agenda? Music
- Men Are the Expendable Gender: The ending of the video seems to take a great amount of glee showing the giant Pam/Vallery eating the all-male band. With lots of shots of each terrified man begging for his life before showing Pam/Val eat him entirely on screen with no cutting away or Gory Discretion Shot for any of them. And by the end, not only is every single man dead, but the Giant Woman gets off scott free, suffering no repercussions for what she did. It's hard to imagine an all-female band getting eaten one by one would ever end with all of them killed off, or be portrayed in such a cavalier way.
Uhhhh…what? Am I getting agenda vibes here? For describing a silly fetish-y music video involving a giantess.
openGrammar changes Music
Auspicious She-wolf has been making unusual grammar related edits to the One-Hit Wonder page. Things like changing one adjective to another ("fairly" to "incredibly", "major" to "significant", "very hard" to "extremely challenging"), spelling out numbers, or changing dashes in a word (For instance, they change "one-hit wonder" to "one-hit-wonder"; Most instances of the term only use one dash, not two). I don't think any of those changes were especially necessary, least of all without any edit reason for why. I reverted their "one-hit wonder" to "one-hit-wonder" edit a few days ago, and they've just added it back along with these other grammar changes.
No edit reasons were left on either of their edits to this page. Any ideas what to do next? Are changes like this an issue?
EDIT: Looking through their edit history, they have a lot of similar edits.
Edited by thelivingtoadopenReal-life troping problem on K-Pop group pages Music
After getting a little savvy with TV Tropes, one thing I've noticed is how the majority of pages for Korean pop artists violate the Real Life Troping policy. The K-pop scene is a scene where many fans (get the impression of) knowing their favorite singers really well, and the fandom can sometimes be quite similar to ones of fictional properties, so I understand why this happens... but it's not allowed on TV Tropes. (For the record, most K-pop stars don't play any fictional persona; all the "fictionalization" could be chalked up to image management or editing out the bad parts, but most aren't playing characters.)
As an experiment, I thought of a random K-pop group - in this case, U-KISS - and guess what? Almost none of it was about the music, but about the people in the group! (It's also filled with misuse, both in the real life troping and the few examples related to their music, but that's besides the point.) I thought this could be the fault of being a page that probably hadn't been touched since 2012, but I checked the page of NMIXX and it has a whole section on tropes applying to the members.
I was thinking of making a short-term about this, but I heard I should discuss over here instead of unilaterally making a thread at the Short Term Projects forum. I'm sure this could also be a problem with pages for other non-Korean idol singers, since those too market their image and personality over anything else. And when it comes to controversies, which K-pop fans always handle with the utmost tact, it can get real messy. (A while back I deleted a massive wall of text on the SS501 page about the leader Hyunjoong's controversy... that occurred years after SS501 went on "indefinite hiatus.") Anyways, what should we do?
(Sorry if I didn't convey my message well; it's just something that's been bugging me for a while.)
Edited by neruneruparkaopen Can someone fix the Tofie page? Music
The page for electronic musician Tofie is a complete mess. Half the tropes are misused and are seemingly only there for the creator to gush over how attractive they think the artist is, one of them is a ZCE, and the page isn't even indexed. I'd do it myself, but I have no idea where to start.
Edited by PhysicalStaminaopenConflicting edits on Overshadowed By Controversy Music
R. Kelly is without a doubt a qualifier for Overshadowed by Controversy, and he has an entry on the Music subsection for that page. A while ago, I noticed that the entry (which I had added a lot of detail to previously), had become bloated and bordering on No Real Life Examples, Please!. I decided to clean it back in September with a valid reason. Due to the length of both entries, I've decided to split them into folders.
- Even people who aren't fans of R. Kelly know about his brief marriage to Aaliyah (who was fifteen at the time) and his arrest for urinating on an underage girl, and his subsequent acquittal despite the existence of video evidence, which many found to be a disgusting example of Screw the Rules, I Have Money!. While Kelly's career was slowly going down by the late 2010s,note Spotify stopped promoting his music on the grounds of "hate content", while his concerts were being boycotted and radio stations stopped playing his music during the rise of the #MuteRKelly movement the bottom eventually fell out in 2019 following the release of the Lifetime documentary series Surviving R. Kelly, which showed evidence and accusations of him running a sex cult, his attempts to cover up his sexual abuse allegations, the backstory behind the trial, and having sexual affairs with women who tended to be underage. The success of the documentary saw Kelly lose virtually all of his remaining fans, with many of Kelly's collaborators (such as Lady Gaga, Jay-Z, and Céline Dion), and many of those formerly close to him (his ex-wife Drea Lee and Sparkle) backing up the documentary and regretting working with him publicly, a search warrant was issued for his manager in Georgia, and RCA Records dropped him publicly. Ultimately, Kelly ended up being charged with 28 accounts of sexual abuse and has been in jail awaiting trial since July 2019. He also didn’t help things by going on a violent, hyperbolic rant in the middle of being interviewed by Gayle King (and at the same time made King a Memetic Badass for just calmly sitting there and not appearing the slightest bit flustered).
- R. Kelly was once one of the most successful R&B singers of The '90s, being known for songs such as "I Believe I Can Fly", "Ignition", and "Bump N Grind". Over time, however, he became better known for his marriage to Aaliyah (who was fifteen at the time) and his arrest for urinating on an underage girl, and his subsequent acquittal despite the existence of video evidence. Then in 2019, the Lifetime documentary series Surviving R. Kelly was released, which accused Kelly of him running a sex cult and having affairs with several other underaged girls. The documentary's release further damaged his reputation, and he was eventually charged with 28 accounts of sexual abuse.
A day later, miraculous edited the entry to include a section about him being found guilty, which I deliberately avoided doing at the time due to OBC's 6-month waiting period.
Then two days ago, Amuck Cricetine reverted the entry back to before I edited it without a reason.
Rather than risk an edit war, I would like to ask what I should do.
EDIT: This isn't the first time Amuck has been brought up in ATT.
Edited by SkylaNoivernopenImage for Music/MeganTheeStallion Music
Andiman keeps changing the Image for the page without a given reason. Said image he changes it to is too big for the page and it’s a selfie. I tried making a thread but nothing has been done about it.
openThere's a character sheet dedicated to "Eminem Beefs"... Music
Eminem — Beefs is a sub-page to Eminem's character page, and the "characters" it documents are real other artists that Eminem (the artist) got into beefs with and targeted in diss tracks.
Is this page actually allowed? I can kinda understand doing a character page for Eminem's music given he raps as alternate personas (ex. "Slim Shady" is not the same as Marshall Mathers), but this sub-page just seems like it's a really weird way to document real-life drama, in addition to troping real people (granted, usually based on the context of the raps and music, but it still skirts a little too close for comfort).
openA little too much real-life troping on Michael Jackson Music
chizo made some absolutely massive edits to Michael Jackson's main page, and probably edited some of the subpages as well. Most of these are troping the man himself, and also bloated his page description by a crazy amount. Much of the page description can honestly go with the RL tropes, but I wanted to get consensus before firing up the chainsaw.
open Self Report Music
It appears I have let my hatred for sexual predators seep into my edit reasons beyond a point that is considered socially acceptable. Admittedly, I am not handling the notion of a prolific nonce being allowed any freedom whatsoever very well at all.
I just want to explain that I acted rashly due to my anti-predator bias, compounded by the fact that Ian Watkins—a man who considers molesting children "mega lolz"—could go free in seven years.
I am considering going on hiatus so that I can clear my head.
I understand if the mods feel a suspension is necessary. Hopefully, if such is the case, I can appeal a while after the suspension, when I have a clear head.
Edited by SkyCat32openKidz Bop headscratchers page Music
Is there anything remotely salvageable on Headscratchers.Kidz Bop?
Most of it is complaining about how they didn't cover a specific song or whatnot, which is outside the bounds of their actual work.
openDo interviews count as real life examples? Music
I noticed that a lot of TearJerker.Music pages list real-life events (mostly artist deaths) in violation of Tear Jerker's No Real Life Examples, Please! rule. On some pages. On TearJerker.Avenged Sevenfold, I removed an example about The Rev's death, but I noticed a couple of examples about other band members being interviewed afterwards. I think they be removed should since they're troping real life, but I'd still like to confirm.
Edited by Someoneman
Full disclosure: I am a massive Michael Jackson fan who thinks he was innocent of all the charges he was accused of in his life. Now with that out the way...
Omega 3421 has made a few Michael Jackson-related edits of late, many fixing grammatical issues, which is fine, but I noticed a couple of justifying edits from them made yesterday, and a few that stretch back at least to late 2020.
One edit that made me raise an eyebrow was that on the page for Jackson's album HIStory they had links to pro-MJ videos and sites, and had done something similar on the trivia page of the Simpsons episode that featured Jackson, and probably a few other pages. I also saw that they removed references to Jackson's allegations on some of his articles and YMMV pages as well, which I partially reverted.
Again, while I have my own opinions on MJ, Omega's edits still fall under possible ROCEJ violations, so I wanted to get consensus to revert some of them just so I don't trigger an edit war.
Edited by AfroThunder