Regarding the Trivia namespace (crowner switched 20th Jan 2020)

So why is Expy a trope again?

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Because sometimes we do know authorial intent.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

my point was more that "a character being a reference to another" is a factoid and hardly has impact with the story, which means it is trivia.

Picture it like this:

• Expy: Word of God confirms that Soandso is based off Randomguy from show X.

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I think Expy should stay in the regular tropes. Because they're an Expy rather than an entirely original creation.

When an author picks a character to file the serial numbers off and tweak slightly, they are selecting a character with an established temperament, documented reactions, a developed belief system, a way of viewing their world, and other mental and emotional factors that are them. Changing these past a certain point makes the character no longer an expy character, but a character in their own right.

Any writer can tell you that in any well-written story, the characters often drive the plot, and an otherwise good piece can be wrecked if a character doesn't act or react the way they've been established to without a hell of a reason.

Say a writer realizes they need a 'leader' character, and decides to just adapt an existing one. After some deliberation, they have four candidates left, let's say, 1980s Prince Adam/He-Man, 1980s Lion-O, Ken Washio from Science Ninja Team Gatchaman, and Ben Tennyson from Ben 10: Alien Force.

Now, I've picked these because I'm familiar with all of them. All are leaders in some way in their series: Lion-O is a king, He-Man a prince who will be a king and a current team leader to the titular 'Masters', Ken heads a tiny elite sort-of military unit, and who Ben leads depends on the episode, from just Kevin and Gwen to heading up the Plumbers' Kids as they kick Highbreed tail. But they are all highly different personalities, with different backgrounds, training, outlooks, and ways they were called to their lives and jobs. Ken has a soldier mindset, and is capable of killing enemies; the rest, not so much. Lion-O got the crown dropped on him at a young age, but had advisers to help him until he mentally grew up and into his full position; the others aren't quite in his position, at least yet. And so on.

The character chosen for the Expy is chosen to fit with the story and, conversely, will also influence the story.

edited 4th Dec '14 11:46:56 PM by Candi

Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett

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Yes, it is. It's just so far down that you can't see it without clicking the "To include items with lower scores, click [here]" button. It's the second lowest item on the crowner.

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You are correct; thank you for teaching me something new.

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Also on that crowner was a 7:11 against Dawson Casting becoming a trivia-trope, and that's changed, so opinions do change after time.

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And I think I'm going to change my opinion on Expy. My reasoning:

• Expy must be deliberate (merely being similar does not count).
• Shout-Out must be deliberate (simply resembling something from another work is not sufficient).

Shout-Out is a Super-Trope to Expy, and considered to be a storytelling-trope, not a trivia-trope.

edited 5th Dec '14 5:42:21 PM by crazysamaritan

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

what if they don't influence the story at all, though? More often than not, that's the case...

And how can we measure "deliberate copying" beyond Word of God?

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Same question applies for Shout-Out: how can we determine if it is deliberate?

But it is a central part of the definition: "A deliberate reference to second work."

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Limey Goes to Hollywood, Spoiled by the Merchandise, and Written-In Infirmity... all three of these have clear consensus to be made trivia, yet they remain in limbo because they only have 9 votes.

Will someone vote on them already, so that I can call them?

I know their pain...

The options all disappeared when I tried to vote. WTF?

See the Tech Wishlist thread.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I'm surprised Cancellation isn't already trivia. The page itself is in the Useful Notes index; it looks like it has no place in as a main article trope.

Prolly because it's exampleless.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Calling Limey Goes to Hollywood, Spoiled by the Merchandise, and Written-In Infirmity. Finally!

Now if we could only get Christmas Rushed declared trivia by Christmas. Unfortunately, that won't happen at the rate this crowner is accumulating votes...

edited 14th Dec '14 2:55:38 AM by MyTimingIsOff

The crowner dissapearing whenever someone votes on it isn't helping...

Bumping so that people remember that this thread and crowner exist.

Someone is still adding items to Trivia 4 despite the fact that we changed the crowner over two months ago.

The items in question are Practical Effects, Lip Lock, Executive Meddling, and Stunt Double.

Messaged the troper in question. Meanwhile, could a mod close up Trivia 4 so that it doesn't get more examples/votes?

Locked that crowner.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Calling Christmas Rushed.

It was me, still using Trivia 4. Sorry for the confusion. Locking up obsolete crowners is the way to go. As for my entries:

• Stunt Double: It's a behind the scenes casting decision. No Stunt Double is tagged as trivia already.
• Practical Effects: Also a behind-the-scenes trope. As is Chroma Key.
• Digital Destruction: trivia

Perhaps my idea of Trivia is off but I would regard any technical tool or casting trick that supports the narrative but is not part of the on-screen experience (or so the filmmakers hope) as trivia.

edited 30th Jan '15 3:57:52 PM by eroock

I'm wondering if Harpo Does Something Funny shouldn't be trivia, just like Throw It In!. It's not normally obvious in the work, you need outside info...

Harpo DSF is a section of Improv included in the script. Throw It In! comes from going off-script. Unless Improv is expected to be trivia, I don't see why it would merit Trivia status. I assume the default assumption is that everything is in the script, and Throw It In! is notable for retroactively changing the script. Harpo DSF is by definition part of the act, a short improv scene.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

But how would the audience know said scene is an improv without insider knowledge on the script? I agree it's not the same as Throw It In!, but for the average viewer not aware such-and-such actor is wont to do that, he could still think the scene was scripted. Hence, knowing the trope apply to a given scene is trivia.

That applies to Improv generally, not to Harpo Does Something Funny specifically.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Bringing Self-Imposed Challenge and its subtropes to the table for discussion. They're about how players play a game, not necessarily the game itself. However, some of the tropes do seem to have reasonable examples to them, like 100% Completion and Pacifist Run. Others really do seem to be lists of trivial information, like Minimalist Run and Speedrun.

Rocks fall, everyone miraculously survives.