During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm wondering if Davian needs a better writeup.
As for Leotardo, unless it's incorrect, his character page has Even Evil Has Standards and Even Evil Has Loved Ones. CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Aprile sounds like a cut to me.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
for Buisson. Cut Aprile.
The RoboCop 2 entry also looks like it could use a fix. Isn't the snitch whose stomach he cuts open the same one mentioned at the end?
- RoboCop 2: Cain, the Nuke cult leader, blows up a drug treatment center just because they try to cure people of their addiction to Nuke, cuts open the stomach of one of his minions after RoboCop has forced him to reveal the location of one of the labs making Nuke, and is willing to use children as soldiers in his gang. He later kills all the members of his own gang. When he finds in his limo an illegal immigrant worker from the drug lab, pleading not to be turned over the police, he coldly shoots her and pulls her out. When he discovers that a corrupt and Nuke-addicted cop gave information to RoboCop, he has him eviscerated whilst still alive, scaring even his two accomplices, Hob and Angie.
Cain: *with a psycho look on his face* Doesn't he look scared?
@ ACW: Actually, I just realized that the Hatred shot (or a good crop) could work as the page image for Video Games barring other options.
@ futuremoviewriter: If you're considering bringing up any new villains from the latest Mission: Impossible movie, please wait the required 2-3 weeks on that.
edited 3rd Aug '15 9:59:00 AM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
After doing a bit of a research, Cain's accomplice it seems was indeed the one who was eviscerated. BTW, were all 4 Robocop monsters (Boddicker, Dick Jones, Cain, and McDaggett) approved by the thread?
I'll cut Aprile tomorrow morning if nobody gives a good reason he should stay.
edited 3rd Aug '15 10:38:47 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
So I've been watching Mr. Robot and I think Vera might qualify. I'll wait until his character dies (which I'm hoping he does, provided he doesn't have a Karma Houdini) before I do a writeup, but after the last episode, I'm pretty damn sure he's well on his way to being a CM.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
If you saw my earlier post, Post 42655, I very much said the same thing. I learned my lesson after the debacle with the Indominus, believe me. You didn't need to reiterate it.
In the second post, I was commenting on the villains from the first to fourth movies, which are fair game.
edited 3rd Aug '15 11:50:47 AM by futuremoviewriter
We discussed the Robocop examples here:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=669
Do you want to reevaluate them or something?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Just wanted to make sure. Plus, McDaggett could maybe(?) use a little more detail, question mark?
I never watched the third movie (its pretty bad) so I can't help you with that. However one of Cain's major crimes is not mentioned in the write up, in the beginning of the film a news report mentioned that Cain's followers blew up a drug treatment center (they show a burning building) and then Cain gives a video statement that is shown on the same report. Is that on screen enough to count? Because if so, I think its worth mentioning.
Since the murderer from La Belle has gotten 3 "yes" votes (Lightysnake, Overlord, and ACW) and no "no" votes, here is a write up:
- La Belle: The murderer (Sergio) kills off the smashers one by one in sadistic and creative ways, with no mercy given to any of the children. His murders include burning Donkey Kong alive and sealing MewTwo underground in a coffin He frames Ganondorf for the killings and tricks the smashers into executing him, just so he can trick them into killing an innocent person. He broadcasts Samus Aran's death so he can taunt the smashers. It is later revealed that he planned on sacrificing the smashers souls to [[Satan the Devil]].
RIP Toriyama
to the La Belle and Irene murderers
RIP Toriyama
So, the latest arc in Avengers Assemble has just concluded and I do believe I may have found a keeper. SPOILERS!!
Who is he?
Nighthawk is an Arc Villain of the show's second season, a Batman Expy who is a member of The Squadron Supreme.
What has he done?
Sometime before the series, he formed a group of superpowered individuals, The Squadron Supreme, and conquered their home planet. When said planet refused their rule, Nighthawk forced an innocent man to absorb the power of an Artifact of Doom, become a member of the Squad, and destroy the entire planet. This is all seen through flashbacks.
In the present, Nighthawk sneaks into S.H.I.E.L.D. and steals The Falcon's "contingency plans" for The Avengers if they ever turned evil. He uses these plans to try to destroy them all.
He then tries to use Hyperion's, his Dragon's, citadel-like starship to destroy Manhattan, and announces he will continue to destroy cities until the Earth surrenders to him.
He later re-forms The Squadron and attempts to use an Infinity Stone to alter reality and turn The Avengers' evil and make himself and his team look like heroes to the public.
He orchestrates other forms of attacks on The Avengers, mostly to obtin information about/ from their files.
After seemingly destroying the Avengers, the Squadron split up and take control of various parts of the Earth, and while most of them use their control for trivial things (lounging around being fed grapes; romping around and stealing things), Nighthawk becomes a dictator, believing the world is at it's best when under his control.
Finally, after being defeated by The Avengers, Nighthawk orders Hyperion and Nuke, a living atomic reactor, to combine their powers and destroy the planet's core, at which point he attempts to flee the planet and leave his squadmates to die.
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities?
No excuse, and as for redeeming features, he claims he is a Well-Intentioned Extremist and wants to be treated as a hero, but he comes across as more of a Totalitarian Utilitarian (instilling curfews, forcing everyone, from adults to children, to attend work and school on time under threat, etc.), Knight Templar, and Attention Whore. And if he really had well intentions, he wouldn't friggin' blow up the planets he was trying to "protect" when they went against him.
Also, just in case it wasn't clear about his "care" for his teammates...
Iron Man: "Ya' know, if you destroy the planet you'll be destroying your own teammates."
Nighthawk: "My teammates are nothing more than tools. And if a tool is no longer useful, get rid of it!"
Heinousness?
Is a Knight of Cerebus who commits (arguably) the most heinoius act in the entire show (destroying his home planet on screen.) Also, the only villains to even attempt to destroy the world were:
Red Skull: Himself a Complete Monster
Thanos: The attempt is his only major crime
Ultron: Could easily qualify at this point, but is set to be the Big Bad of Season 3.
Hyperion: A huge Jerkass, but most of his more heinous actions were orders from Nighthawk.
Plus, all of the above villains had the help of Infinity Stones or outside power sources in their attempts, while he simply has his brains and teammates in his attempt.
Final Verdict?
Knight of Cerebus? Totalitarian Utilitarian? Smaller scale Omnicidal Maniac when not given what he wants? I'm leaning ]]
edited 3rd Aug '15 10:38:30 PM by Ravok
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
For the love of chocolate milk, please spoiler tag that! If it's something like a movie or a TV show we generally have a two week wait rule. From what you've said, this just concluded. In which case you probably shouldn't be talking about it right now, or if you do spoiler tag the hell out of it.
I'm so damn depressed right now. I think I might go watch some Futurama, particularly the episode Jurassic Bark.
And most entries should have at least 5 keep votes before a writeup. I think Shiz has enough, so I think I might start his writeup soon.
Also, I think we should take MLP off the never again list. It's unlikely to have a CM sure, but it could happen. Look at the first show for example. This incarnation isn't that much more saccharine.
Also will there ever be/was there ever a Complete Monster in Kirby or Care Bears?
edited 3rd Aug '15 10:00:18 PM by Klavice
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
A total has-been.
So long as the show's called Friendship Is Magic and doesn't have a villain who goes beyond Tirek in terms of the heinous standard, then no, that show can't have a legit CM.
I think the Nightmare from the Kirby anime qualified. But Care Bears? No freaking way. The franchise's worst villain was an evil spirit inside a spellbook, and that villain's motivations and plans were way too vague to be considered truly heinous.
RIP Toriyama
Ok, fixed. I apologize if I've spoiled anything for anyone. I was using a mobile at the time and wasn't thinking. Though none of what I said was really a huge spoiler of any kind, I realize I should have been more thorough. I honestly didn't think alot of people here even watched, let alone cared about, the show.
Seriously, sorry.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.That wasn't what depressed me, but ok. Glad you spoiler tagged it. You never know with this wiki. Someone here could be a dedicated fan in Australia for example and didn't get to see it right away. And before you say they could stream it off Hulu or Netflix, not everyone has that kind of money to afford monthly subscriptions and obviously Hulu won't work for anyone outside the US. Not even Canadians.
Also, I heard comics!Chrysalis (kidnaps children and tries to kill them), Tirek, and Sombra (we actually see the slavery and dystopian world the Crystal Empire is) were worse than their show counterparts so you never know.
Also wasn't Marx considered for this trope? Why was he rejected? Heel–Face Turn like Magolor?
edited 3rd Aug '15 11:38:13 PM by Klavice
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
to the Avengers example. Sounds like he does enoug where both him and Skull count.
Remind me again, what's the Avengers Assemble Red Skull like?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
- Complete Monster: Red Skull is once again presented as a heartless monster. After his initial defeat, the Red Skull attacks the Avengers at their mansion. When that attack fails, Red Skull attempts to blow up the reactor at the Avengers Mansion, so that the Avengers will die and be blamed for an explosion that would kill countless civilians. Later Red Skull forms a team of super villains known as the Cabal, to counter the Avengers and assist in his plans for conquest. While fighting with the Avengers to obtain the Tesseract, the Red Skull launches two missiles at two different American cities, forcing the Avengers to choose which city they would want to save and allowing the Skull to escape with the Tesseract. After obtaining the Tesseract, Red Skull decides he doesn't need his allies anymore and attempts to murder them. Red Skull then uses the power of the Tesseract to launch attacks on several cities around the world at once and plans to burn down the old world, so a new one can take its place.
Nighthawk
@ANewMan: So you're saying that the show can never have a CM until it has one? There's no rule in place that prevents the show from having a CM, unlike the shows with a bunch of Negative Continuity on the Never Again list. If the purpose of it being there is to keep past villains from being brought up, it should just say something like: "As it is a light-hearted kid's show, none of the villains so far have passed the baseline heinous standard." This is what I've always said. The way it's worded now makes it sound like we'll never even consider the possibility, which is wrong.
edited 4th Aug '15 5:19:03 AM by Camberf
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Agreed. Hell, if freaking Rainbow Brite can have a CM, MLP probably could.
Well, I do have a possible CM from a kids' show..live action, admittedly, though I'm not sure how kiddy it is
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Well, don't tease us 
. Even if no effortpost now, can you at least tell us who it is?
Let me quickly run through the other Mission: Impossible villains first:
Phelps: Became disillusioned with the agency and sought a profit for the duty he put in, so no.
Krieger: More trigger happy than evil.
Ambrose: Just wanted money, but didn't really do enough to qualify. Plus, he was shown to care about Nyah so that there should be enough to make him a firm no.
Davian: He counts, goes without saying.
Musgrave: Tried to service a righteous ideology in an extreme manner. He definitely doesn't count.
Hendricks: No to him. Believed what he was doing would somehow save the world. Plus, we learn very little about him personally.
edited 3rd Aug '15 7:24:32 AM by futuremoviewriter