During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Really what's your reason towards that logic
Because it could mean they care about them and have a redeeming feature.
So by that standard despite what ranayre had done to the main cast she can't be a complete monster because she has a redeeming quality of caring for her idol Azazel & by definition standards CM Los have absolutely no Redeeming qualities.
edited 25th May '15 10:40:23 PM by G-Editor
Yep. Now, it's possible that that person only did it to manipulate their master and then they might qualify. But the default assumption in these instances is that it's genuine until shown otherwise.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
So As of this moment she can't be a CM due to her genuine care for her idol did I get that correct?
edited 25th May '15 10:45:07 PM by G-Editor
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Thanks for the explanation HT, fascinating. So, technically, Caesar Clown and the others COULD return, but for now are basically Put on a Bus (with the exception of Big Bad Akainu)?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Messenger from another dimension.
@ Pwnisher248 He might seem a little petty but he is still pretty heinous and monstrous. Evil Is Petty is a wrong definition for him. He is too heinous for it. Also, ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
on Noah.
edited 26th May '15 5:02:23 AM by emperors
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
A New Man says the vote tally on Injun Joe is 7 yes and 4 no. I guess that's counting me and assuming Ambar only voted no on the book version? Well, anyway, here is a rough draft write up. Hopefully this will bettain his actions and make t easier or people t decide n him:
- Tom And Huck: Injun Joe, along with Muff Potter, is hired by doctor Robinson to dig up a grave. When the three men find a treasure map in the grave, and Robinson decides to keep it for himself, Joe kills Robinson and frames Potter for the crime. When Tom testifies that Injun Joe is the true killer to save Potter from being hung, Joe throws a knife at him and vows to kill him. Joe later kills his partner for betraying him. After that, Joe tries to kill Tom, Becky, and Huck.
edited 26th May '15 5:15:56 AM by bobg
jjj
Messenger from another dimension.
I will give him tentative ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
just for trying to kill Tom, Huck, and Becky.
to Injun. He's above standard villainy, methinks, but I've seen too much of "villain attempts to kill/harm Kid Hero" too much to really consider it any worse than typical adult-on-adult violence. I won't measure him by the standards of an overused trope alone, but it's far too much just "attempts to kill the heroes with a few other crimes" in his regard.
Messenger from another dimension.
Voting against Injun Joe then. I know I constantly flip, but now I officially vote . Scraggle made a perfect point.
There's degrees of "attempts to kill," though. Chasing them and being menacing a la The Goonies is one thing, actually throwing a knife is another. My vote remains . Besides, he's inarguably past baseline heinousness with multiple adult murders under his belt.
My issue is the adult murders were both criminals who tried to cheat him, and one fellow criminal he framed to save his own ass.
I just finished a replay of Wild ARMs and I think I can improve the CM entry for that game a little.
- Alhazad is a Mad Scientist who had several inhabitants of a town abducted so he could test his parasite that horrifically mutates any living thing into a mindless monster, then sends the mutated citizens back to their town to slaughter everyone except a young, blind girl (who was protected by Zed). He then threatened to let the same parasite, which he calls the "Demon Seed", loose on a village almost entirely inhabited by orphaned children unless the party hands over a MacGuffin. He also manages to infect both a young Wanderer and a puppy with the Demon Seed, forcing the party to kill them both. Finally, it turns out that he's the one who turned Lady Harkan into a Demon. Not because he was ordered to, but because he had a fondness for her. Even the omnicidal Mother was less vile then Alhazad in that at least she did what she did because she believed it was her destined role. Alhazad simply enjoyed experimenting on people as "toys". He even collaborates in resurrecting Mother and is a vocal supporter of her plan to destroy the human race.
Less Word Cruft and more context. What do you think?
Edit: Just did another small tweak and it's done.
edited 26th May '15 7:05:29 AM by BigglesTh9
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
. Just make it "He then threatened to unleash the same parasite, which he calls the "Demon Seed", on a village..."
A total has-been.
There's degrees of "attempts to kill," though. Chasing them and being menacing a la The Goonies is one thing, actually throwing a knife is another.
Not to mention the explicit threat of gutting a kid to death. (That "You've got guts, kid - and soon they'll be all over the floor" line.)
edited 26th May '15 9:02:42 AM by ANewMan
I found the Raynare write-up on page 1137 btw. I'll ask for it to be submitted.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll tweak it this weekend first please, but two questions:
- Was she in fact approved?
- What about Mash and the Count from the same post? So far the only Lupin III CM is Count Almeida.
It doesn't need to be tweaked anymore ACW. The entry has enough potholes to get the point across.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Just make sure you namespace correctly to Light Novel/ (and it should be No-Holds-Barred Beatdown).
And my question about Mash and the Count still stand.
Nevermind, I took care of it and the new Lupin III tree.
edited 26th May '15 11:57:35 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The thing is, Joe tries to kill three kids, and one of them (Becky) did nothing to him. Joe had no real reason to kill her since he was already a fugitive, so her seeing his face and watching him kill Tom would not really be an issue for him since he was already wanted for murder and framing and was going to be hung if the police found him anyway.
jjj
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Okay, I think that probably JUST pushes him into a .
You said yourself though that you didn't know if he'd kill Becky. Why are you claiming otherwise now?
It'd depend why. The answer could be yes.