To-do list:
- Move examples of East Asian fox spirits from Kitsune to Asian Fox Spirit, and move examples of fox spirits from other cultures to Fantastic Foxes. Remove any examples that don't fit either.
- Possibly move parts of the old description to Analysis.Asian Fox Spirit.
Original post
I would like to draft a proposal to rename Kitsune to Nine-Tailed Fox (which it is presently a redirect for), Asian Fox Spirit, or something similar if neither of those proposals work.Japan isn't the only country to have myths, legends, and stories featuring multi-tailed fox-spirits, nor is it the country in which multi-tailed fox-spirits originated. And while Japan may have been — and still be — the most-prominent source of Western-imported media featuring fox-spirits over the course of the 20th and 21st centuries, more and more Korean and especially Chinese and Chinese-themed works featuring multi-tailed fox-spirits have been coming out over the last few decades — i.e. Painted Skin, Jiang Ziya, White Snake (2019).
Wick Check
- AFK Arena — Solise, The Floral Wonder — "* Kitsune: She's based on one, being a Fox Folk with nine tails and supernatural abilities even for her own people." — UNCLEAR EXAMPLE
- A New Hope (Danganronpa) — Hora Island — SINKHOLE
- Arknights Nations — Suzuran — "Suzuran and her father are both nine-tailed Vulpos, which obviously point to them being based on the Kitsune." — INSPIRED BY HULI JING note
- Beware of Chicken — Nezan — "* Kitsune: Nezan is one of the Chinese variation, known as a Huli Jing. See Fantastic Foxes for more detail." — EXAMPLE, HULI JING; ZERO CONTEXT
- Buster Keel! — Dakki — "* Kitsune: She's a seven-tailed monster fox whose name and action are based on the infamous huli jing from Fengshen Yanyi." / "* Unusual Eyebrows: Her eyebrows have a peculiar shape, reminding the stylized, spiral-like tuffs of fur drawn on Kitsune in some depictions." — EXAMPLE, HULI JING
- Chinese Mythology — Daji — "* Foul Fox: She is sometimes identified with a malicious fox spirit, and... look at the other tropes attributed to her." — EXAMPLE, HULI JING
- Fushigi Yuugi — Chichiri — "* Kitsune: Chichiri isn't a literal kitsune, but numerous characters remark that his Cool Mask makes him look like one. His celestial powers, mostly based around illusion and shapeshifting, and his trickster-ish personality also line up with kitsune mythology." — MISUSE
- Fuzzy Logic — Musume Uchiha — * Kitsune: The kitsune, in fact. — ZERO CONTEXT EXAMPLEnote
- God Eater Aragami — Kyuubi — * Kitsune: As its name indicates, the Kyuubi takes the appearance of one, except with three tails instead of nine. — EXAMPLE, BUT LITTLE CONTEXT
- Gugure! Kokkuri-san — Kokkuri — Zero Context Example; just a link to Kitsune
- Honkai Impact 3rd – Honkai Beasts and Herrschers — Hellmaru — * Multiple-Tailed Beast: In keeping with its kitsune image, it has 4 tails. — INSPIRED BY; UNCLEAR EXAMPLE
- Honkai Impact 3rd – Other NPCs and Historical Characters Higokumaru''' — "* Kitsune: The in-game description of her mentions that she claims to be a human, but notes the 4 tails and the fox ears, and the fact that she likes inari-age (seasoned tofu skin). The description concludes that "she must be a fox". As ch. 12 and a supplementary comic shows, she didn't always look like this; it's implied that after the power of the 12th Herrscher is turned into the sword Jizo Mitama, her leftover body and original consciousness (i.e Rin) merged with that of the fox beast (which likely was a normal fox), causing her to gain fox features." — EXAMPLE, KITSUNE
- Juushinki Pandora — "* Eldritch Abomination: It is an ancient force whose power spurred the process of evolution, making it the source of the B.R.A.I., and is hypothesized by Lon to also be the source of humanity's myths about gods and monsters such as the Monkey King and nine-tailed fox as well. In the penultimate episode, it assembles a makeshift body from the amalgamated corpses of Dark Drive-equipped B.R.A.I., and in the final episode attempts to turn Neo Xianglong itself and all the M.O.E.V. into B.R.A.I." — SINKHOLE; EXAMPLE, HULI JINGnote
- Journey To The West - Demons — Nine Tailed Old Vixen/Juweihuli — "* Kitsune: She is a nine-tailed fox, but she's not particularly powerful or pretty, being an old crone in possession of a magic rope." EXAMPLE, HULI JING
- Journey To The West - Demons — The Spirits of Biqiu Kingdom — "* Kitsune: The White-Faced Vixen is, as the name suggested, a white-faced Hulijing." — EXAMPLE, HULI JING; LACKING CONTEXT
- Characters/Kanokon — Chizuru Minamoto — EXAMPLE, SINKHOLEnote
- Korean Mythology — "Gumiho: Name literally meaning 'nine-tailed fox', they are the Korean version of the Kitsune." — EXAMPLE, KUMIHO
- League Of Legends A — Ahri — "* Kitsune: Although referred to in development as a Gumiho, the Korean equivalent. Hence her vampiric nature. She becomes an actual Kitsune, to the point of being able to shape shift into one, in her Spirit Blossom skin, as the skin-line instead takes inspiration from Japanese folklore for the Ionian Spirit Blossom festival." — INSPIRED BY KUMIHO
- Monster Hunter Fourth Generation Monsters — Mizutsune (Tamamitsune) — "* Kitsune: Its vulpine appearance, its 4GU Gunner headgear describes as smelling of fried tofu, its weapons in Wings of Ruin referencing a man married to a Mizutsune turned into a woman. The list goes on." — NON-EXAMPLE, INSPIRED BY KITSUNE
- Monster Hunter Frontier Monsters — Dyuragaua / Mi Ru — "* Kitsune: They are based on the kitsune of Japanese folklore. Mi Ru takes this further with its ability to change forms." — NON-EXAMPLE, INSPIRED BY KITSUNE
- Naruto - Tailed Beasts — Kurama — "Kitsune: Kurama is a kaiju-sized nine-tailed supernatural fox." — EXAMPLE, KITSUNE
- Nura: Rise of the Yokai Clan - Other Yokai Groups — Hagoromo-Gitsune — "* Kitsune: She's a kitsune who survives by possessing the bodies of women. She can manifest fox tails, with the number of tails being equivalent to the number of times she has reincarnated." — EXAMPLE, KITSUNE
- Pathfinder Fey — Gumiho — "* Kitsune: Based on the creature of the same name from Korean folklore, gumihos are legendary nine-tailed foxes who, when disguised in humanoid form, use charm and guile to lure prey deep into the forest before revealing their true form, tearing out their victim's throat and feasting on their liver." — EXAMPLE, KUMIHO
- Persona 5: The Phantom Thieves of Hearts — In general — "* Animal Motifs: Akechi, Ann, and Yusuke have bird, cat, and fox Persona masks; Ann and Yusuke's respective Metaverse outfits even have tails attached to them that match their respective animals. This leads to Ann, Yusuke and Akechi have the heist code names Panther, Fox, and Crow, respectively. This also dips into Japanese Mythical Motifs for Akechi and Yusuke, as Akechi's mask is based on a Tengu, a crow based Yōkai known for having red faces and ridiculously long noses, while Yusuke's is a traditional Kitsune style mask." — SINKHOLE
- Raishon — Reika Tsukimori — "%%* Kitsune - Also the assistant of one. " — ZERO CONTEXT EXAMPLE
- Sengoku Youko — Several examples — ZERO CONTEXT EXAMPLE
- Summon Night — Hasaha — "%%* Kitsune" — ZERO CONTEXT EXAMPLE
- That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime — Tempest Citizens — Kumara — "* Kitsune: All the hallmarks of it, with ancient and modern depictions mixed into both her pre and post evolutions." — ZERO CONTEXT EXAMPLE; INSPIRED BY NINE-TAILED FOXES
- Teen Wolf Antagonists — The Nogitsune — "* Kitsune: A particularly evil one." — EXAMPLE, BUT ZERO CONTEXT
- The Game of the Gods — Kitsune — "* Kitsune: Not an example. Her name is kitsune "fox" but she is not a fox." — MISUSE
- The Gamers Alliance Five — 'Inari Okami — "* Kitsune: She's one of the mythic shapeshifting foxes." — EXAMPLE, KITSUNE; LACKING CONTEXT
- The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet — Yayoi — No example given, just a link to the page in her bio saying she's similar to one. — NON-EXAMPLE
- The Vampire Diaries Book Characters — Shinichi — "* Kitsune: This is Shinichi's species, alongside his twin sister, Misao. Their origin is from Japan. Kitsune are described as intelligent beings and as possessing magical abilites that increase with their age and wisdom, every 100 years they get a tail, becoming more powerful, and when they reach nine tails (Kyuubi no Kitsune), they become demi-gods, reaching the omniscience, and almost the omnipotency. Foremost among these is the ability to assume a human form. While some folktales speak of kitsune employing this ability to trick others as foxes in folklore often do other stories portray them as faithful guardians, friends, lovers and wives. The folklore says they are afraid of dogs, running away every time they see one." — EXAMPLE, KITSUNE
- Touhou Kaeidzuka ~ Phantasmagoria of Flower View — Aya Shameimaru — "* Everybody Hates Mathematics: She shows in Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red that, while Ran Yakumo may enjoy doing math in her spare time, not everyone in Gensokyo shares her enthusiasm for the subject." — SINKHOLE
- Touken Ranbu — Konnosuke — "* Kitsune " — ZERO CONTEXT EXAMPLE
- Uma Musume — Inari One — "* Kitsune: Her name and motif are both based on the mythical Fox Youkai. (Makes sense, given the "Inari" present right there in her name)" — INSPIRED BY KITSUNE
- Warriors Orochi — Tamamo — "* Kitsune: As in the legend, Tamamo is a fox spirit. Her real form, Kyūbi, is the famed nine-tailed fox." — EXAMPLE, KITSUNE
- Warriors Orochi — Da Ji — "* Red Right Hand: Her feet are actually paws, fitting the legend that a kitsune cannot completely conceal her foxy nature." — ZERO CONTEXT; EXAMPLE, HULI JING note
- We Are Our Avatars — Mara Bjornsen — "* Kitsune: Has nine tails (normally physiologically hidden), power over flame, and can shapeshift into a fox. " — UNCLEAR EXAMPLE
- Werewolf: The Apocalypse — Kitsune — "Werefoxes native to east Asia, with powerful magic skills and close ties to Luna. They are the youngest of the Changing Breeds, coming into existence following the War of Rage." — UNCLEAR EXAMPLE
- ×××HOLiC — Kudagitsune / Mugetsu — "* Kitsune: Its true form." — EXAMPLE, KITSUNE; ZERO CONTEXT
- Beasts of Burden — "* Kitsune: A kitsune is one of the creatures encountered in Occupied Territory." — EXAMPLE, KITSUNE; LACKS CONTEXT
- The Sandman — K — "* Kitsune: The Dream Hunters is a fairly traditional kitsune romance, with Morpheus and other Sandman characters making cameos." — UNCLEAR EXAMPLE, LACKING CONTEXT
- Onmyōji — "Mythology Gag: Seimei often looks faintly vulpine; this is a reference to his mythological background where his mother was a kitsune. Specifically referenced by Hiromasa in-universe; upon first being introduced to each other, Seimei playfully teases Hiromasa about the myth." — EXAMPLE, KITSUNE
- Bungo Stray Dogs — "Dazai is frequently likened to a fox, and certain merchandise features him as a Kitsune. Not only are these creatures known for being cunning...but they also can be thwarted by the presence of dogs!" — SINKHOLE
- Anime & Manga — "* Kamisama Kiss has Tomoe, a male Little Bit Beastly Kitsune, posing as Nanami, a female human Ordinary High-School Student, a total of three times so far. The first when she was sick, he covered for her at school. The second time when she was attending the conference, he also covered for her at school. The third, well..." — EXAMPLE, KITSUNE
- Bluebeard — "* "The White Road" by Neil Gaiman is a version of the "Mr. Fox" variant, with a twist - Mr. Fox may be innocent, having been framed by a kitsune. (That said, it's very ambiguous if you read the story closely.)" — UNCLEAR EXAMPLE
- Mail Fox Tales — "* Kitsune : Eva, as well as the servants and some of the Inari she meets." — EXAMPLE, KITSUNE; ZERO CONTEXT
- Tale of the Nine Tailed — "* Kitsune: The show revolves around the Korean variation, the gumiho." — EXAMPLE, KUMIHO; LACKS CONTEXT
- Elona — "Kitsune: The fox brother, one of his evolution paths allows him to become a nine-tailed fox brother." — UNCLEAR EXAMPLE
- Tally:
- Huli Jing: 8
- Kumiho: 3
- Kitsune: 11
- Unclear: 7 — overlap with other categories note
- Zero Context: 11 — overlap with other categories note
- Sinkhole: 6 — overlap with other categories note
- Misuse: 3 note
- Inspired By: 6 note
~Macron Notes: Added in the OP's wick check from here
Edited by GastonRabbit on May 17th 2022 at 11:35:18 AM
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
In one video from Overly Sarcastic Productions, Red mentions an Inuit fox shapeshifter.
Here's the video (when Red begins mentioning the story of the Inuit fox shapeshifter):
https://youtu.be/PS62iRXBeJc?t=239
Therefore, shapeshifting fox folk tales aren't exclusive to Asia.
Edited by Nen_desharu on Apr 21st 2022 at 11:45:18 AM
Kirby is awesome.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
- I'd like to believe that, but there's no citation for that myth in the video's description, the following source doesn't go back far / deep enough for my taste, and I can't find any academic source to make me believe that it is a real myth?
https://inuit.uqam.ca/en/documents/fox-wife
It was recorded in Stith Thompson's book "Tales of the North American Indians" in 1929.
Here's a link to the section that contains the tale.
ETA: Dug a little more, found a source in the 11th edition of the report by the Bureau of American Ethnology (1889) website Archive Link
Edited by Hello83433 on Apr 21st 2022 at 2:54:15 PM
CSP Cleanup Thread | All that I ask for ... is diamonds and dance floors
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I'm leaning toward Our Fox Spirits Are Different since continents other than Asia have been brought up.
Alternatively, we could go with just Fox Spirit or Fox Spirits.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
I like that. It's clear and concise. Should we hold a crowner?
Hmm... I suppose that my question is this: How similar are non-East-Asian fox spirits to East-Asian ones?
If they're fairly similar, then indeed, a title that doesn't specify East Asia is likely better. If they're not all that similar, then I'd be more inclined to leave them under Fantastic Foxes and keep this trope specific to East Asia.
Or another question: Is the Inuit fox-spirit an outlier, or are there other such tales from other non-East-Asian cultures? If it's an outlier then it might simply be mentioned as such while keeping the overall page focussed on East Asia; if there are others, then indeed it might be better to broaden the page beyond East Asia.
My Games & Writing
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I forgot this thread was made on the 19th, and since it's the 22nd now, we're at the three day mark, so let's start by seeing whether we're renaming at all. Feel free to suggest more names while the crowner is running, in case renaming ends up having enough consensus.
There are others out there, maybe not as well-known as their Asian counterparts, but they exist.
While I was researching The Fox Wife, I came across another story from a Noth American native people that told of the life of a fox woman (I'll have to see if I can find it again).
There are the fylgja of Scandinavia. While they're not always depicted as foxes, a few tales focus (Howard the Halt being one) on fox-fylgja. The mythology on them seems to ascribe to fylgja being both tricksters and guiding companions, depending on who they appear to (men tend to get tricksters, women and witches in particular get companions).
CSP Cleanup Thread | All that I ask for ... is diamonds and dance floors
Ah, I was perhaps unclear (or otherwise I'm misreading you): I'm aware that there are Fantastic Foxes outside of East Asia—but, as that trope-link indicates, we have a page for the broader concept.
I'm asking, rather, whether there are fox spirits specifically of the sort found in East Asia in other parts of the world, with the exception of those mentioned as being found amongst the Inuit.
There are, I think, clear similarities between the various East Asian foxes: multiple tails, shapeshifting, etc. etc.
The question, then, is that of whether other fox spirits likewise bear such similarity.
Looking at fylgja specifically, it seems to me based on an admittedly-quick-and-perfunctory look at the Wikipedia page that they're somewhat akin to tutelary spirits, which doesn't seem to me to match with the East Asian foxes. The latter, by contrast, tend (to my knowledge at least) to be independent beings, or occasionally possessing entities.
My Games & Writing
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
The proposal for Our Fox Spirits Are Different (more accurately Our Foxes Are Different since the tropes in this naming convention are all fictional/magical) is glossing over the fact that we have Fantastic Foxes which already encompass all supernatural foxes.
As Ars points out, the "multiple tails indicating power level and possession/shapeshifting" mark these creatures with a similarity in powers and narrative role that distinguish them from other cultures with fox legends. I don't see a problem with expanding Kitsune to the comparable legends of similar cultures, but I do object to merging into Fantastic Foxes. If I were to recommend expanding the concept any further, it would be to other Asian spirits who have transformation abilities and tails, such as the Tanuki.
I'm not actually proposing that we expand the trope in this way, just pointing out that Tanuki have more in common with Kitsune than American/European mystical foxes do.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
About that... I think Fantastic Foxes should be split into multiple subtropes because as it is, its definition is all over the place. Sometimes it's about mythical foxes, other times it's about Animal Stereotypes.
The animal stereotypes is Cunning Like a Fox, and that is the basis for the various wise/trickster/shapeshifting/etc. supernatural fox or foxlike creatures. Fantastic Foxes is about the latter.
Without a deeper look into the usage, the most I would do for it is a description rewrite.
Edited by Synchronicity on Apr 22nd 2022 at 10:20:59 AM
the Retromancer
What should we settle on first, the scope or the name?
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
I would argue that the name relies on the scope, so I'm inclined towards starting with the latter.
Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on Apr 22nd 2022 at 6:41:17 PM
My Games & Writing
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Re: Merging with Fantastic Foxes:
I admit that I didn't think to add merging with Fantastic Foxes as an option because it was past 3 AM when I made the crowner and was probably zoned out and was focused more on adding the rename option, since it was the most popular one.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they)
Don't let either of them hear you say that.
(That does suggest that maybe this trope should focus on henge-equivalents rather than fox spirits specifically, but I don't know if there's an accepted term for "Shapeshifting Trickster which is an East Asian animal spirit".)
Edited by Noaqiyeum on Apr 22nd 2022 at 9:36:12 AM
The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable
Fantastic Foxes' description talks about both.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Anyone up for a quick Fantastic Foxes wick check? Because that might be helpful here.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Due to what crazysamaritan said about the differences between Asian fox spirits (Kitsune's current definition) and other continents' fox spirits, I'm leaning toward Our Fox Spirits Are Different and Our Foxes Are Different not being the best name choices here, and I think something like Nine-Tailed Fox, Asian Fox Spirit, or East Asian Fox Spirit would be better.
In fact, whenever the name selection crowner is made, I'll probably leave the Our Monsters Are Different permutations off and just add the other three I mentioned in this post.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 23rd 2022 at 2:26:25 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I'll start a Fantastic Foxes wick check, but what categories would we need?
Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 23rd 2022 at 8:08:54 AM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
I'll say to avoid Nine-tailed fox specifically because one commonality that Japanese, Korean and Chinese variants frequently share is that the fox gains tails with age and power. So we'd have to broaden the trope enough to suffer from and suffer from a non-indicative name or have issues where we have examples being excluded when they clearly fit because they don't have enough tails due to being too young.
Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they)
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Fair enough; I'll leave that off the name crowner and just leave it as a redirect.
We can't use that name. Our Monsters Are Different snowclones may not change any words other than "Monsters".
Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 23rd 2022 at 7:51:15 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Crown Description:
Consensus was to rename Kitsune because it covers Asian fox spirits other than the Japanese kitsune. What should its new name be?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
- Ah, yeah, I'm being overly terse and lumping East Asia together. I'm saying that Asian Fox Spirit makes sense as a title if East Asia is the only place with fox spirits.
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