Writing a proper Girls Night Out Episode... and friendship

I was browsing around here in Writer's Block and came across this thread. found it to be a rather strange topic... then i realized i myself have the same problem with girls. Y'see, I have a 7 member ensemble consisting of 4 ladies, a little girl, and two guys. and i'd rather not describe them here again as i've already described them at length on that thread. their archetypes are important. key tropes are Headbutting Heroes and Teeth-Clenched Teamwork.

yes, i realize that trope refers simply to an episode with no guys around. though i'd like to try to write a literal one (for Deconstructive Parody or just plain parody purposes).

anyway, my plan for the episode is for it to be a team building session, because as stated on the thread, they don't exactly get along, since there can't possibly be any decent chemistry between an Alpha Bitch, Shana Clone (sans love interest), The Lad-ette, Aloof Dark-Haired Girl, and The Ingenue. even without invoking the trope, there's still Extraverted Nerd (incompatible w/ AB & ADHG) and The Sociopath (incmp. w/ AB & TI) to take into account.

so anyway, on to the questions: ^{ANY QUESTIONS, SNAKE? QUESTIONS?} * What do girls usually do when they hang out(or team build/get to know each other, etc)?

• shopping is a given, but what makes it fun? though i'm a guy i can relate on taking time to choose something.(quality and cheapness are my primary categories on choices.) what i do not understand is how girls always seem to manage to gather an armful of bought items.
  • also, i guess they'd rather pillage than shop and would prefer weapons and accessories over clothes (this is practicalt, and simply subverts the usual "dresses, shoes, and diamonds" Schtick if you consider Death of the Author.
• spa/hot springs is another obvious one. but can't be used for team building as it seems to be a bonding activity for relaxation. not helping an incoherent group to learn to like each other.
• salon cannot be used for the group, these girls all keep secrets that will get revealed on make overs.
• some relatively minor activity (self-make overs, baking, etc). cannot be used on the group as one is Sheltered Aristocrat, and the rest each Hates Small Talk and would rather mind their own business or have awkward moments if they even try this.

• Do girls really love gossip? what makes it appealing if so?
  • addendum, what do they normally talk about outside of this and the stereotypical "beauty tips" and "current entertainment", and what happened in their day? what about non-mundane stuff (excluding politics and current events)?
• would girls allow breach of their personal space (skinship, etc) on "new friends"?
• how would a "girl talk" on one topic differ on a "guy talk" on the same topic other than how they talk about it?
• are girls really that fond of skinship, or does it only apply to those who've been friends for a long time?

edited 10th Aug '13 11:32:23 AM by ShanghaiSlave

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?

okay, I can't really say much in terms of your questions, as I am too, a guy. however I did just finish an episode of my own basically the same premise, and the one thing I would really stress is to not go into it thinking of them as girls, think of them more as people. and as people, one of the things you should ask is, from their perspective, how much they'd buy into gender roles pushed on them in regards to your self. for example The Lad-ette would likely be entirely disinterested in them, or actively despise them. its important to not thing of the gender of the characters more than the characters would. and, considering your girl group has at least 5 very different archetypes, so they'd likely all have very different views on the matter.

that said, you should also think about what all these characters would do together. what shared interests or event would get them all together. now again, they all seem liked they'd be very different people, so their likely be vocal disinterest from someone on a very specific event. as such, something broader with many little things inside it might work better for this. like a trip to a theme park (which is what I did) or maybe all them hanging out at a mall. think, what would get all these girls together, and how would that help them bond? it doesn't necessary have to be girly thing, anything could work for this situation.

edited 10th Aug '13 10:53:45 PM by Jetyl

I'm afraid I can't explain myself, sir. Because I am not myself, you see?

I think the main advice from the Male Friendship thread also applies here: Go by the personality of each character. Don't think of them as women, think of them as people, and think of how each of them would feel about the others, what they'd talk about, that sort of thing.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.

As the above posts have said, treat any character of any sex, race, religion etc as a person first and foremost.

You have distinct ideas for their personalities in mind so go with that.

Personally, I never think in terms of tropes for the characters' personalities - for the situation and events, yes - here I avoid Rule of Cool, there I invoke Rule of Funny etc - but I don't apply tropes to what the characters think/feel, just come up with a collection of traits that I think suit the character or would make a great dynamic with other characters.

Which is not to say that tropes can't be applied to those characters, I just don't use them as the starting point. You have and that obviously works for you, and either way, we now have a bunch of characters.

Then the characters are introduced to the situation and maybe each other and they respond in the way that their personalities/traits/tropes dictate.

And then it doesn't matter if they're men or women or hermaphodite aliens, they're people. The readers go "yeah, I can totally see that person saying that to that other person" and you have winnage.

@2 — good point on perspective. i guess i forgot about that part.
also, they don't really have any shared interest, given they each have a single unifying concept (a sin) that don't really converge. also, while all 'cept the ladette and the shana clone are feminine, i they all don't really think like actual girls from how i wrote them. their line of thought are pretty unisex.

@3 — so really ignore their sex when writing them huh? i'll keep that in mind.
also. the fact that I gave them distinct personalities and varying age makes it easy for me to think of dialogue and interactions between them. but i wouldn't really call any of their interactions friendly. though i guess that's a given seeing as i won't be using The Power of Friendship anywhere in the story. I opted for The Power of Hate... on both the good guys and bad.


@4 — your using of traits for dynamics is also what i'm doing (sort of) i think. except i use ones that are dictated mostly by tropes and create conflict rather than creating good dynamics.
though i gotta say your breakdown is pretty helpful. thanks.


anway, on what activity would they probably do. given their conflicting personalities and the story being set in a highly anachronistic Standard Fantasy Setting (which includes the east so there's some Wuxia stuff) with several subversions and trope playing^note 


like elves & dwarves being one race and no conflict between them, The Fair Folk filling in the smug role as well as their usual role, Black Magic is blended with White Magic, almost perfect gender equality, no orcs, goblins, gnomes, and other western obligatory creatures, etc


with no malls (only markets and trade centers) but with modern conveniences like TV's and LED billboards and tablets. i'm guessing the only logical and non Willing Suspension of Disbelief breaking method would be exploiting their Doom Magnetness err, Walking Disaster Areaness (apparently, that trope covers alien invasions) and invoke Fire-Forged Friends.

edited 12th Aug '13 8:26:07 AM by ShanghaiSlave

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?

What would each of them prefer to be doing to pass time if they weren't in the group? That's probably the best place to start. (I tend to get my characters to play card games together if I can't think of anything else.)

Women tend to express affection for each other physically more often than men do, in general, but individually, whether each one feels comfortable with it still depends on how close the friendship feels. :/ A girl who is more outgoing will probably be ready to start hugs earlier than someone more reserved, just as you'd probably expect.

Not sure what you mean by "skinship", but it sounds like something I'd expect from closer friends.

The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable

As with everyone, there's a lot of variance. My first wife was not at all a "physical contact" kind of person, much less so than I or any of my family - if you'd met her parents you'd understand as they made Daleks seem huggable and "touchy-feely". Their idea of shaking hands was that it's best done from opposite sides of the Royal Albert Hall.

Consequently, when my first wife met my sisters - both very huggy/demonstrative people - and they gave her a hug, she stood frozen rigid and distinctly uncomfortable while they hugged her - reminded me of a rabbit paralysed with fear in the light of approaching headlamps. It was totally alien to her and a major invasion of her personal space (which, I've calculated, is roughly the size of the average banquet hall).

On the other hand, many other women and men I know are quite OK with people making physical, non-sexual, contact on first meeting.

edited 12th Aug '13 12:37:52 PM by Wolf1066

Yes, exactly so. (I lean toward the no-touchy side, though I've managed to stop impulsively freezing when people catch me off-guard... and family has always been an exception.)

edited 12th Aug '13 8:33:37 PM by Noaqiyeum

The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable

I have never met any woman who has decided to touch me on first meeting beyond a handshake unless I was supposed to already "know" them, as in an aunt or cousin or somesuch.

@6 — Skinship Grope, sans the grope part. basically, any breach of personal space like, talking too close to the face, hugs, "cheek-to-cheek kisses" (i have no idea how it's translated in english, but it's simply called "Beso-beso" from where i came from. and it apparently is the spanish word for kiss.), etc.
as for what they do to pass time, well, they really don't do anything in common. but card games is a good start. doubly so because the "main character" is The Gambler.

@7 - hmm, you gave me a idea of their P Ss. everyone but the Extraverted Nerd and Aloof Dark-Haired Girl has a PS of 2 meters, though only the Alpha Bitch actually Hates Being Touched.


@9 — well, that's obvious. however, given the fact that there's already seven of them, suffice to say they've known each other for a bit. maybe call them "acquaintances/new allies" at this point.
also, their first meeting (all of them except The Ingenue) involves either a punch in the face or a blade to the neck.

edited 13th Aug '13 3:52:31 AM by ShanghaiSlave

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?

My suggestion: Since they are all so different, they should make a deal that each girl gets to choose one activity, and the rest have to go along with it. They get to step into one anothers shoes, bond with those who end up mutually liking or disliking the activity.

Possible things to do: (many generalizations follow, keep your character's personalities in mind. Each will react differently to each situation.) ( As they are generalizations, please don't reply with something like "Not all girls are like that!" I know that.)

Dress shopping: something that the lad-ette will probably loathe(although it would be interesting if she found out she loved it), but the ingenue will probably squee over. They don't necessarily have to buy anything, and it's probably best that they don't. In my experience, dresses are flippin expensive, and it's much more fun to try them on to see how good you look in them. It's a confidence booster, and some of the girls can bond over it, especially if one of them has never thought of themselves as traditionally "pretty" and another points it out and compliments them. On that note, girls are typically more comfortable giving each other compliments.

Door bell ditching— depending on their respective ages, this could be a fun, mundane thing for them to do, considering that it sounds like they don't have very mundane lives and might want one.

Sleepover: action movies can be just as likely a choice as rom coms, and games such as never have i ever might be played, as well as things found on this http://thepajamacompany.com/blog/sleepover-fun/ website. One favorite game from my younger years was playing hide n go seek with sleeping bags on (aka with our heads in the bottom, walking around)—very dangerous, btw— or other games involving sleeping bags. Telling scary stories and eating a plethora of sugar is a must. Thing to avoid: while pillow fights can happen, it would be freaking weird to do so in their underwear. I don't care what hollywood says, that doesn't really happen (in my experience, anyway.) Especially if one of them is a kid. It'd be weird. And many girls are very uncomfortable with their bodies, so it's the last thing they'd want to do. Inevitably, some will want to go to bed earlier than others, while others may just fall asleep. The last ones awake usually prank the sleepers. I had friends put dots on our faces with markers. These pranks can lead to anger and/or tears in the morning.

As for friendship, it's good to keep in mind that friends usually have something in common, and that it is usually a similar sense of humor. Or a favorite tv show, etc. They need to have something that gets them talking enough that they find that they like each other. As an example: I discovered that two of my (female) characters were friends when one of them makes a comment that could resemble one of her teammates. Realizing what she said, she is about to apologize when the other girl turns it into a joke, essentially saying "don't worry about it, i know what you meant". The former girl hadn't liked any of her teammates previously, so when this happens, she finds someone she has something in common with. Which, i can say from personal experience, is something to latch onto when you have a limited pool to choose friends from.

I hope that helps, and really, keep in mind that a lot of this will vary depending on the character(s). I personally like the idea of someone becoming the cool big sis to the younger girl and treats her as part of the group.

You might already have your answer by now, but since it's back on top...

I myself have an ensemble of 6-7 people, but mine ups the ante in that they're all girls. However, the character types you chose for yours does sound a little tougher to pull off than most... If it helps, my ensemble are an Ojou, Pirate Girl, Knight in Sour Armor, Sympathetic Criminal, Nature Hero and our main character.

I think my girl interactions are one of my better writing abilities, which is not that much but still. I usually take influences from how anime girls act around each other, which is fine enough since this story is manga-based, and luckily in anime there's plenty of girls to go around.

I watch a lot of shows with all-female casts like RWBY and, yeah, K-ON. Not the most authentic example, but I know enough to fill in the gaps where there's more moe than realistic female interaction.

Usually, if you want to have a situation where all of them have to be together, your best bet is to have the most outgoing/friendly character catalyse it, and forces them all somehow to stay, either by circumstance or threats of physical violence. Or pouting. I dunno. I'm male.

Also, assuming there's action and adventure in your story, simply having your characters pass the time during a long night around the fire by starting conversation can be pretty effective. You may find that you might just learn just as much as your characters are about each other. One character you might not expect may offer to make supper for one or even all of them if they're present. One may tell ghost stories, which is prime opportunity to see who's the scaredy-cat and who's not. One may be writing a journal by the light, which provokes curiosity from the others (got this from The Meek webcomic). One may be shown to be a morning person, and is the only one having trouble staying awake. Another may just reminisce to themselves alone, which may cause another character to approach them.

Basically, just create situations and put them in. Preferably nothing too tense, as you don't really learn much about your teammate if you're in the middle of a fire-fight. You learn to trust each other in those situations, but you don't really learn much about the person herself. Try putting them in low-key, more relaxed and laid-back situations, and just see what happens. You may surprise even yourself.

Also remember, some girls have different perception of guys, which you may already know, since you have a Ladette on your team. She wouldn't mind guys, an Ingenue may be too innocent to care, a Shana Clone may be unnecessarily nervous around them, so on and so forth. Because of this some may open up more towards their female teammates, if only because they prefer it to talking to the boys. Some girls may not want to break the ice, while some are more willing to do so simply because "breaking the ice" was never really a concept they know. Some even want to talk to those really standoffish ones because for some reason they want to trust that they won't just shoot them down.

Basically, they're people. There are general differences between them and guys (otherwise this wouldn't have been a topic in the first place, and the world would be a lot more boring, if less confusing), but ultimately they have hopes and dreams and personalities and likes/dislikes and fears and all that stuff. Some psychological and character tropes are more common to them than guys (and in the case of stuff like A-Cup Angst, unique to them), but they have them nonetheless. Treat them as such and I don't think you can go wrong.

Working on a manga. With pictures! All feedback welcome!