What are your personal "red flags" before reading any fanfic?

I'll try not to retread here, or at least be more specific:

• "Team 7 bashing" in the summary
• "Anything" bashing anywhere
• "Please read my story and review."
• "Don't like, don't read"
• Flames will be [insert haughty comment]
• God Naruto/Powerful Naruto

The first is from Naruto fan fiction. Team 7 is a group of main characters that most of the fanbase hates. Nobody has to like the same character, but don't exaggerate their personality traits to make your favorite characters look better. Write them competently, or find a way to remove them from the fic.

I detest bashing in general. I won't defend it as "character development", I don't think "bashing" should even be referenced in the summary. You are either developing the character, or you're turning them into a cosmic chew toy.

I'd feel really bad if I clicked on the story and didn't say anything. I'd rather just avoid it, unless I'm going to say something worthwhile. I know what it's like to write something and have multiple hits and few reviews. Makes you feel like people just read the first sentence and leave (and the reviews may not shed any light on why). Not always the case, but still.

The fourth is, to me, very disrespectful. People are taking time to read and criticize your story. I understand if you don't like reviews that say "go die in a fire," but throwing up the "don't like, don't read" banner gives the initial implication that you flat-out don't want to hear anything bad about your story. If I disagree with the plot, characterizations, or setting, and feel the need to point it out - well, then why am I reading the story at all? Because I want to know how the story ends/I want to see if it gets any better. Don't tell me to get out right off the bat.

To add to that, that's like holding up a sign in front of a movie theater that says, "Don't like, don't pay". Hmm, well, I don't really know if I LIKE the movie until I've gone to the theater and seen it, right? And I had to pay to get in, so maybe I'll sit through the movie rather than just leave the theater the very moment I start to get bored with it.

Which ties into an author telling me "flames will be crucified", which is usually followed by the author pointing and mocking any criticism he/she receives and pasting them into their next chapter. Just a hint of an arrogant mentality.

And now for Number Six. Fan fiction is a way for fans to express themselves, yes, but to me, the character of Naruto is an underdog, so when you make him "God/Sasuke-expy Naruto who is a ninja assassin at 6 years of age and ninja commander by 11", you're missing the point of his character. What's the point in a story where the main character is confirmed to be "Strongest By Default?"

edited 6th Aug '13 5:34:22 PM by FOFD

You know you can probably tell a lot about a person by how they write. Like this guy who bashed all of Naruto's male authority figures (including Iruka for apparently being the reason Naruto is not a "bad ass"), when confronted about it he admits to having a strained relationship with his father.

It can be suggested people who say "Don't like, Don't Read" and re-post reviews in the chapters to mock them are over sensitive egomaniacs who can't stand being insulted or care about others opinions unless they're compliments.

God Mode Sue/Harem Fics are Wish Fulfillment of the Powerful Dominating Male Fantasy: A powerful fighter, a guy who doesn't take crap from anybody, and gets any woman he wants.

In other words they want to be Conan the Barbarian

Since they can't be Conan in real life they do it through writing. Namely through characters they relate too (like Naruto or Harry) if not them then through OC's.

...I've been taking psychology classes okay?

edited 6th Aug '13 6:16:34 PM by WorldTurtle

Now if all those Godlike Naruto fanfics had the line "WHAT IS BEST IN LIFE?" "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women." delivered in an obvious Ahnold accent, we'd know what's coming easily.

What would it say if the badass male power fantasy character is quickly shown to be utterly out of his league against threats more powerful than the Mooks?

@PPPSSC, You'd hate my stories then, they tend to end up around 500 - 1,000 pages.

Another thing I found that I dislike, is when someone is making an "Ask X", or a humour fic, they'll put "SO FUNNY!!!" in the summary. Now is it proven to be widely thought to be funny? Or are you just saying that so I will read your story expecting to laugh.

I don't know they're a Fake Ultimate Hero then?

Now would seeing that in a summary be a turn off for some or for those who know the reference eagerly (or at least curiously) go in to read "Naruto the Barbarian"?

edited 6th Aug '13 10:32:37 PM by WorldTurtle

I hate the "don't like it, don't read it" line. It's so immature.

The thing with OC's is that they are rarely needed. But there are some really good ones out there. It just depends why an OC is there. The American exchange student or the lost daughter of Sirius Black is NEVER a good idea, because just steal the spot-light from the character I like to read about. But I've read some really good stories with OC. I remember one, which was about the guy who got bitten by a werewolf and sharing Arthur's hospital room. According to the author he was actually the writer of the "Martin Miggs the Mad Muggle" comics, and got attacked because those comics were actually very critical of the government. It's hard to describe, but the whole story is now in my head-canon. Another one where I was very weary at the start was a story by celebony which started out with Harry meeting some nice neighbours with a daughter in his age. The thing is, those characters actually had a purpose, and didn't take over the whole story. And I myself wrote a story with an OC in a fairly important role, too, but that was because I needed a character, who is a wizard but neither affiliated with the Order nor with the Death Eaters.

There are exceptions to every rule (even that one), but generally, one doesn't want to read fan fiction starring an OC or Possession Sue.

When it comes to OC's I want them to be unique in both personality (with flaws) and skill set (that has weaknesses) with the idea being they offer something new to the table, a role that none of the other canon characters provide.

When it comes to OC's, I try and avoid all the obvious Mary Sue stuff I can think of. For example, in one of my earliest fics for Touhou, I tried to avoid having the enemies be so overwhelmingly powerful by... having them all lose easily to the canon characters.

And then the sequel to that story had a villain so broken that there was literally no point in trying to fight him. >.>

So... yeah. I think I've gotten better about it. Been a while since I used my OC's, though.

Let's see...

• Spellin' and grammar errors (Typos I'm a little bit more forgivin')
• Obvious Mary Sue OC's (I've always wanted to write a series of fanfics where I kill them off)
• Summaries that suck (Ex: "Lol I suck at summaries XD lololooolo")
• Inappropriate Content for the sake of Inappropriate Content (every fic doesn not need Rape!)
• Song and Poetry Fics in general (I loathe these)
• People shippin' Canon Characters with Non-Canon ones (with a few exceptions here and there. Emphasis on few)
• Lemons with a minimal amount of description and an 'unsexy' atmosphere
• And Raisins (shivers)

edited 7th Aug '13 4:53:50 AM by Philosopherstones

"If I don't get at least X reviews I WON'T UPDATE!"

Okay, not I really feel kind of ashamed of my current rather OC centric fic. I'm really trying hard to make him a good non-Sue character, but I realize from reading this thread that a lot potential readers are going to avoid it just on that principle.

I'm wondering if I should resurrect the "How to create an believable Original Character?" thread in Writer's Block or some similar "Is this a Mary Sue?" thread, or if it would be okay to create a "Good OCs in Fanfics" thread.

I honestly thing that the question if a character is a Mary Sue or not has nothing to do with his character traits (take Harry Potter for example, he is rich, has a tragic past, an unusual eye-colour, a special mark, is a great quidditch player, in short, he has most traits which are normally connected to a Mary-Sue, but he isn't a Gary Stu at all), and a lot with the way the story is written. When the plot bows to the character, than you have a Mary Sue, no matter what character traits you gave the character. If you are not unafraid to allow your character to loose, to make mistakes and to suffer the consequences, than you are on the right way.

Well, I tend to read Warrior Cats fanfics. Based on the way the world of that series is set up, most Warriors fanfics, my own included, will star OCs and/or be composed almost entirely of OCs. So my red flags will be slightly different than the ones you guys have.

• I Suck at Summaries, of course.
• Original Clans, when it's not adequately explained why there are original Clans and the author doesn't go out of their way to make these Clans unique in any way.
• Fics that are named "Main character's X". Especially if the title or description reveals that the main character will become leader.
• The mind-numbingly stupid yet incredibly prominent cliche of the main character's father taking one look at them after they're born and immediately declaring that they hate them forever.
• Reincarnation fics. (Where a canon character gets reincarnated in the future as a character with the same prefix they have.) What the hell is the point if you're literally turning a canon character into an OC?
• Fics where a human becomes a warrior cat.
• Fics that still feature the canon characters but star OCs. These OCs always tend to be shitty.
• Fics that take place after The Last Hope and involve the canon characters getting a new prophecy. They always end up as a repeat of the story that already happened.
• "Founding of a new Clan" fics, which always rip off Prin Pardus, but never do it as well as she did. (And while I ultimately enjoyed Shattered, which is what they rip off, it still had a lot of terrible ideas.)
• Fics that have powers when the description reveals that it will feature powers.
• Fics where the author accepts OCs, because that shows that they haven't planned out the story and that they also are desperately scrounging for reviews.
• Fics that bash the canon in the description. ("The Last Hope sucked! Here's my version.") Sure, they can end up being good, but the author is usually someone I would never want to support.

I also hate it when an author writes, "give me your ideas for OCs!" I mean, seriously, you should already have a basic outline for your story and the characters and turn of events, not begging for ideas from readers.

I hate it when characters are described through a bio, as if it were some RP character entry. To a lesser extent, devoting a paragraph describing their appearance, instead of... say, adding details in a much more natural flow than "he had dark long hair with blue denim jeans with ripped knees and a blue shirt with six black leather belts wrapped around his middle and green eyes".

I specifically hate (or at least greatly annoyed) by that in those Pokemon World/National Tournament Stories. Seriously you have hundreds of Character of The Days, Rivals from the previous Leagues, Gym Leaders, Elite Four, Frontier Brains, etc to choose from to bring back why do you need OC's?

What are my red flags? For the sake of not sounding redundant, I'll have to get back to you on that.

@ Outlaw: Don't be. With an OC, there are, admittedly, a lot of things that could go wrong (hence why Mary Sue is common lingo nowadays), but there's nothing inherently wrong with the concept of an original character and anything suggesting otherwise is honestly a blanket statement. (OC/canon shipping is less debatable, but someone out there has probably made it work in a completely believable fashion.) Sure, a fan of the series would likely be more interested in reading about the characters that they're already familiar with and would like to see more development for, but you'd think that good writing would be able to circumvent things.

And sometimes, especially if you're trying to ensure an Original Flavor feel, it's nearly impossible to avoid having OCs, particularly if canon leaves plenty of open spots (doubly so if the work does already operate under that principle and has released media that rolls with those very ideas). I'll provide two example in notes, so as to not clutter the entire page with a wall of text.

^{Example 1: The King of Fighters}  Say you're writing a fic based on KOF, a series that has rotating protagonist duties and introduces a few new characters per game in addition to the ones ported over from SNK's pre-existing IPs. Unless you were to take an already-established character and bump them up to "main character" status (as I'm doing in my planned fic, seeing as there's been loose ends since 1999), the "hero" of the next arc is going to be someone entirely new that the responsibility of wrapping up the saga falls upon. SNK themselves did not avoid the pratfall, as their recent protagonist, Ash Crimson, was able to get away with several controversial actions and was generally a God-Mode Sue able to upstage everyone. It got to the point that the only real way the character had any sort of redemption was by making it so that he never existed in the first place, and that still didn't do much to negate the Sue label in the eyes of some.

^{Example 2: BlazBlue}  One of the (numerous) fics I'm working on is set in the world of BlazBlue, prior to the end of Calamity Trigger. The series is rife with Black-and-Gray Morality; the main villains are detestable, but some of the heroes aren't any better (such as the main character, normally depicted as a Good Is Not Nice Jerk with a Heart of Gold, indiscriminately murdering scores of men and women who were only doing their jobs during one of his raids set before the games begin, all in the name of vengeance towards one man who is pulling the strings and, years ago, brainwashed his needy little brother, cut off his arm, and abducted his sickly kid sister). The NOL (the world order that has managed to maintain stability after a war nearly decimated the planet) is seen as The Empire (both in-universe and out), although most of its members don't even know that they're being controlled by the Big Bad Duumvirate. The main character of my fic is a low-ranking officer (a former member of the Relief Corps) who fits this bill: he's good-natured, kind, and friendly, works to support his single mother, and, knowing of the populace's mistrust of the NOL, tries to address those issues by helping out as many as he can, but is indecisive and a bit naive, while his pacifism clashes with his line of work, especially since his Empathic Weapon (which happens to be a discarded pet project of one Yuki Terumi [the same guy responsible for Ragna's personal vendetta]) has a habit of taking him over (the more powerful weapons in the verse tend to have their own negative effects on a character's body, emotions, sanity, etc.). No more than two chapters in does it turn out that most of his actions and assignments are furthering the efforts of Terumi and Relius, he watches his fellow soldiers and friends drop left and right like flies in a suicide mission that gives the main villains the coordinates of a character that Relius captures near the end of Continuum Shift (i.e. Arakune), and by the time he's on to Terumi's deception and goes off to personally confront him, he's already Doomed by Canon, as Terumi sucks out the souls of nearly the entire NOL branch at the end of CT so that he can smelt the ultimate weapon of destruction about a week later at the end of CS. Not even a Hope Spot in their final battle can save this guy, and the character more or less exists to deconstruct the usual spotlight stealing you'd expect from an OC.

The underlying trick is make your OCs believable and not let them overtake the story. swanpride pretty much hit the nail on the head, so I don't have much more to add to his thoughts.

As long as your character doesn't end up as this, you're good.

edited 7th Aug '13 6:46:44 PM by X2X

Okay, I certainly don't think my OC has those kinds of issues. However, my OC is a major character in the fic, but mainly because the fic only really features him and one other canon character, but even then, I'm trying to write this OC as someone who revolves around the canon character. He doesn't really drive the plot forward, but he is along for the ride. I'm trying not to dump in too much of the OC's backstory all at once or make him uber badass. I did make him a master swordsman, but within the context of the setting that's not really a huge accomplishment. He's very fast and precise, but he doesn't have much brute strength, and any powers he has beyond that basically come from magic effects given to him by others.

I am afraid that the fic does kind of look like an OC/Canon fic, but I want to keep the relationship platonic as long as possible, and the big reason for that is specifically because I know how many readers dislike OC/Canon. I would only go there if I thought the readers liked my OC and the interaction with the canon character well enough to accept that sort of thing. The goal of my fic is not and should not be to hook my character up with the canon character, but to explore the canon character's personality and hang ups in a way that I'm not sure I could do via interactions with another canon character, and along the way develop my OC.

I realize that I'm going to have to create more OCs for this fic since, for the most part, I'm avoiding using any other canon characters. It's a Slayers fic, so it does kind of necessitate creating one off characters for each adventure.

But I feel like I've derailed the topic too much. I guess something I should ask is how far should an author go to avoid giving their fic these red flags? Sometimes you just want to write something you know some people aren't going to like, like crack pairings and crossovers.

Basically all of my stories are about OCs, being Elsewhere Fic.

Red flags... poor grammar and spelling in the summary, long author's notes, works explicitly about sex (they might very well be good, but I'm not interested in it).

Any instance of an OC having a major role in the story.

Oh, come on, does everyone here hate OCs that are primary characters?

Apparently. I guess none of you guys ever came from a story tradition that covers a lot of ground like most game fiction...

I can only assume the hate comes from the amount of OC's that are done badly.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with a main character OC in principle. They just have to not be a bad character.

Edit: Well, premise and setting, too.

edited 8th Aug '13 7:48:25 AM by TropayXion