Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the mods to add the trope via this thread
.
This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.
Common problems include:
- Conversation on the Main Page
- Flame Bait
- Squicky content
- Impossible in Real Life
Real Life sections on the wiki are kept as long as they don't become a problem. If you find an article with such problems, report it here. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to clean up and maintain real life sections, not raze them. Cutting should be treated as a last resort, so please only suggest cutting RL sections or a subset thereof you think the examples in question are completely unsalvageable.
If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.
If you think a trope should be No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only, then this thread is the place to discuss it. However, please check Keep Real Life Examples first to see if it has already been brought up in the past. If not, state the reasons and add it to the crowner.
Before adding to the crowner:
- The trope should be proposed in the thread, along with reasons for why a crowner is necessary instead of a cleanup.
- There must be support from others in thread.
- Any objections should be addressed.
- Allow a minimum of 24 hours for discussion.
When adding to the crowner:
- Be sure to add the trope name, a link to where the discussion started, the reasons for crownering, whether the restriction being proposed is NRLEP or LRLEO (and in the latter case, which subject(s) the restriction would be for), and the date added.
- Announce in thread that you are adding the item.
- An ATT advert should be made as well (batch items together if more than one trope goes up in a day).
In order for a crowner to pass:
- Must have been up for a minimum of a week
- There must be a 2:1 ratio
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
- Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP index
- Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page
Sex Tropes, Rape and Sexual Harassment Tropes, and Morality Tropes are banned from having RL sections so tropes under those indexes don't need crowner vote.
Crowner entries that have already been called will have "(CLOSED)" appended to them — and are no longer open for discussion.
After bringing up a trope for discussion, please wait at least a day for feedback before adding it to the crowner.
NRLEP tag:
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
LRLEO tag:
%%The following restrictions apply: [list restriction(s) here]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
Notes:
- This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread.
- Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
- As mentioned here, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
- The [[noreallife]] tag doesn't currently work. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. However, there's been some staff conversation (Feb 2024) about what a new technical solution might look like, so we'd advise against deleting these from pages, at least until we have a decision as to whether it'll be fixed or replaced.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 8th 2024 at 10:49:13 AM
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
How are we using the phrase "narrative trope" in this thread? That's not a rhetorical question.
The child is father to the man —Oedipus
No, the other one.
Tropes that depend on the narrative one way or another, to put it simply.
The Protagonist is a basic one, since who the protagonist is depends on how the story is written. The same event can be depicted from various points of view, all with different protagonists. Without a narrative, you don't have a protagonist. Compare that with, say, The Hero, who would still be The Hero even without a narrative.
Throw-Away Country is a narrative trope in this context because without a narrative, the country doesn't have the same purpose as a Throw-Away Country. It's only meant to show the seriousness of the story. Whole countries can fall. Even if they don't actually matter in the story as a whole. It doesn't exist for any other purpose than to give that lesson. Real countries exist for lots of other reasons. As I said, it's the country (or similar concepts) equivalent of Red Shirt. The point is to bring up danger in the narrative that, "Hey, someone can actually die here!" without actually losing anything of importance.
A country that's expendable to a specific empire or other superpower isn't the same thing, since for them it doesn't matter that the country goes under, which means it lacks the part about being some kind of a warning. And other than that, there's always a rich history to that country that makes it more than just a throw-away piece of scenery.
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In other words, it's literally impossible for this situation to arise outside of a fictional context because it relies on something intrinsic to fiction—the fact that there is a POV, the fact that the story is told with a certain verb tense, the medium through which the story is told, etc.
Basically, it's not that it can't happen in real life because it violates the laws of physics (like magic), or we just don't want to have Real Life examples because they're offensive or inappropriate or flame-baity; it's just that it literally is impossible for it to not only occur (like magic), but to even conceptualize how it could occur in Real Life.
Like, I can imagine Barack Obama becoming An Ice Person and freezing his enemies with his magical powers. I don't believe it'd ever happen, but I can conceptualize it. Now, that trope's only got three (poorly-indented) examples, two of which are complete shoehorned bullshitnote , and that's because the trope almost always manifests as science fiction or fantasy nonsense that couldn't happen in Real Life. But it's not fundamentally, patently impossible to the point where having it happen would require us to reevaluate how the universe actually works. It's not a narrative trope.
What I can't conceptualize is Barack Obama being the Protagonist of Real Life, because Real Life doesn't have a POV to support a concept of the Protagonist (or Antagonist). Or a Real Life First-Person Smartass (because the real world does not have a narrator). Or something in Real Life having a Sequel Series. Those are narrative tropes.
edited 2nd Mar '15 1:54:30 PM by SolipSchism
No, the other one.
Genre Savvy was brought up in its own TRS. Does that need an explanation? Real life does not follow genre conventions or tropes.
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Sorcerer in training
Spell My name with an S: That might be Too Common to Trope, especially in older RL examples before spelling was standardized.
Man, that's a Wall of Text in that description.
Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
I understand it now, thank you.
I don't thing Spell My Name... is necessarily a problem,if restricted to when standardized spelling exists, but I haven't looked at it yet.
The child is father to the man —Oedipus
I am dubious about Genre Savvy. I would like to see a judgment on whether The CSI Effect counts beforehand.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
How can you be Genre Savvy when real life is not a media genre?
At most an example would be Conversational Troping or if you stretch it with The CSI Effect it would be Wrong Genre Savvy.
edited 2nd Mar '15 11:27:52 PM by Memers
The trope requires a character to be aware of how stuff plays out in stories and apply said knowledge to their own story. It does not require the character to be aware that they are in a story, and I see no indication that the trope depends upon a specific genre.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
The Genre Savvy Real Life section is about how people are aware of genre conventions, but the definition is, "A character is aware of genre conventions like the one they are participating in." If the character is aware of romance conventions and is in a horror movie it doesn't apply. Real Life isn't a genre so people can't be aware of conventions like the one they're participating in.
My main issue is whether the specific genre is important, as opposed to the "genre conventions of the situation in question".
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
The character has to apply said knowledge to their specific genre like, "This stuff that's been happening to us reminds me of the horror movies I've been watching." Otherwise it's just pop-culture references.
Sorcerer in training
Genre Savvy would be like that guy in Scream who tells Sidney what to expect because they're experiencing the same things as horror movies show. Try to apply those tropes to a killer in real life, and you'll wind up dead.
Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
No, the other one.
Whether or not Genre Savvy depends on a specific genre or not doesn't mean much unless you can say that story conventions exist in real life in a way that they aren't just plain old normal knowledge. I mean, The CSI Effect isn't any different from people learning the stuff from forensic manuals. Part of shows like that are to show off how things work in the real life. You still learn stuff from a work, and if genre isn't important, there's no difference between them. And then you have something that's just too common to trope real examples of, because everyone who's gone through school would count.
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Actually the CSI Effect is people learning stuff from TV but since it is an hour and makes shortcuts or absolutes because its TV it is wrong when you apply that stuff to real life, the closest applicable thing would be Wrong Genre Savvy if you stretch it to say that Real Life is a different Genre from anything in fiction.
It does not apply to Genre Savvy at all though in any aspect.
edited 3rd Mar '15 7:25:32 AM by Memers
No, the other one.
There are both applicable and misleading facts you can learn there.
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Filthy casual
Look Ma, No Plane!. That's definitely something that can't have Real Life examples.
(Annoyed grunt)
LOL. Yes. Dat shoehorn on the one example. Oh my God. That isn't even tangentially related to the trope. I mean, there's a plane involved. And the worst misappropriation of a stock phrase I think I've ever seen. Burn it. Burn it with fire and acid and radioactive waste and the wrath of a thousand dying suns. But take a picture first. Because that shit is cray.
"In distress", my ass.
Calling:
- Genre Savvy: Added 2nd Mar '15 at 07:11:54 PM, 11:1 (12)
- Holding Back the Phlebotinum: Added 28th Feb '15 at 09:24:47 AM, 13:0
- Joker Immunity: Added 1st Mar '15 at 02:18:05 PM, 13:0
- Lost Forever: Added 2nd Mar '15 at 11:12:12 AM, 11:1 (12)
- Spell My Name With An S: Added 2nd Mar '15 at 09:57:44 AM, 2.75:1 (15)
- Throw-Away Country: Added 2nd Mar '15 at 09:22:38 AM, 13:0
Calling to keep RL examples:
- Blazing Inferno Hellfire Sauce: Added 25th Feb '15 at 09:45:57 PM, 5y/13n
- The Dark Arts: Added 28th Feb '15 at 03:39:10 PM, 5y/10n
- Heroic Neutral: Added 23rd Feb '15 at 10:41:08 AM, 7y/11n
Remaining issues for this crowner, as of this post:
- Amnesia Danger: 9 votes total (7/2), Added 1st Mar '15 at 12:03:29 PM
- Look Ma, No Plane!: 8 votes total (8:0), Added 3rd Mar '15 at 09:08:38 AM
I don't think the RL example on Amnesia Danger is a good one, but I don't see the trope as being patently impossible for Real Life. On the other hand, I find it highly unlikely that such an example would be documented. I'd call for a clean-up (i.e., probably wipe that example), but don't declare it NRLEP.
Calling Amnesia Danger: Added 1st Mar '15 at 12:03:29 PM 7y 3n 2.33 : 1.
An hour after Noh's post? Or were we just waiting for 10 votes?
edited 5th Mar '15 1:23:57 PM by SolipSchism
The sooner an entry meets all 3 requirements, the better it is to call them, generally speaking.
Crown Description:
Vote up to either forbid all real life examples (No Real Life Examples Please) or forbid real life examples for specific subjects (Limited Real Life Examples Only); vote down to Keep Real Life Examples. To add a trope to a No Real Life Examples Please index or the Limited Real Life Examples Only index, its crowner option must meet the following criteria:- Stable 2:1 ratio needed for NRLEP or LRLEO
- Must have been up for a minimum of a week
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple of extra days to see if more votes come in.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
Some shoehorning. Voting for a cleanup rather than NRLEP.
Be careful what you wish for, 'cause you might just get it all...