For God's Sake, rename TropeName: Trope Name

This one name dates way back from 2007. The trope is awesome, and so is the Self-Demonstrating Article... but the title sucks dirty monkey balls.

• It's ridiculously ambiguous, leading to a number of irrelevant wicks
• It's incredibly hard to find, and unfortunately the the self-demonstrating aspect is NOT helping (I searched for it and only found because someone on Language Log linked to it!)
• The Self-Demonstrating nature means the article utterly fails to draw the difference between itself and Exactly What It Says on the Tin, which covers single instances, leading to more bad wicks
• Even the redirect is way off (they are not necessarily, for starters, Overly Long Gags)

A simple new name that descripe what we want is, I think, Speaking In Tropes (cf. Speaking in tongues)

edited 2nd May '11 6:35:40 AM by Circeus

I don't think it's meant to be a trope, but a parody of the format for trope pages.

But that still means this needs a better name.

It is a trope. You can tell because the page type is set to "trope", it has actual examples, and there's a spin-off page that was created the last time you said you didn't think it was a trope.

Actually, I still can't tell the difference between what the pages are about.

And how is the page in question a trope?

The example need to be trimmed down to exclude the EWISOTT stuff, but http://www.multiplexcomic.com/strip/140 and http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=666 would otherwise have no home. It's a frequent webcomics trope, but the page's problem have prevented its correct growth.

Template Speech? Template Conversation?

If I try going for Added Alliterative Appeal... Dialogue By Description?

I like the current title. Why not just make redirects? That's how we normally make things more searchable.

Just cuz you don't like it doesn't mean it needs to be renamed.

edited 2nd May '11 11:11:07 AM by troacctid

Because the [Trope Name] is one of the worst wrong wick magnet we could possibly have on this wiki?

Oh dear me. So this is a trope? Not some template?

[Trope Name] makes so much sense once you know what the trope is about, but I agree it sacrificed clarity. Can't think of anything else, though.

There are 66 wicks, and I already saw it used correctly multiple times.

Please, prove that this "number of irrelevant wicks" is actually a big number.

Trope Name Drop would work and would be much clearer. The page needs work, as well, I had seen it before and assumed it was a jokey page template, not a trope itself. Self-demonstrating is fine when it doesn't obscure the definition, but nowhere does this page actually give a definition.

Complete wick check.

Correct

• Angband Tales From The Pit: A straight example, linking to the source.
• Its Garry Shandlings Show: X Just X, but the entry on the main trope page checks out.
• Title Of Show
• A Trailer For Every Academy Award Winning Movie Ever: X Just X, but I watched it and it was a sublime example.
• Blah, Blah, Blah: Listed correctly as a related trope.
• FanFic.Brave New World: Correctly potholed to an example, although I'm not sure if it's a quote from the work or a Wiki joke.
• Bruno The Bandit: Another very straight example, also linking to the source.
• Cracked: Leftover example from A Trailer For Every Academy Award Winning Movie Ever before it got its own page.
• Self-Demonstrating Song: Correctly listed as a related trope.
• Daniel Amos: "This is the Title". It checks out, I think.
• Drunken Montage: A neon sign that reads "Neon sign".
• Exactly What It Says on the Tin: Potholed in an example (an album called "Title of the Album")
• Characters.GRIT: What is this I don't even
• Heavy Meta: Referring to Da Vincis Notebook's "Title of the Song", which is a shining example indeed.
• Incredibly Long Note: "Title of the Song" again.
• Jon Lajoie: X Just X, but the entry on the trope page checks out.
• Kirby Vs The Squeaks: This
• Misattributed Song: I thought this was misuse for Exactly What It Says on the Tin at first, but I looked up the lyrics and it turns out it's an example, so this one's good.
• Multiplex: This
• Stickman And Cube: Referring to this
• Theme Song Assonance: Seems okay to me.
• The Onion: Got a link to the example. Pretty good one.
• This Is The Title Of This Story: With a good quote.
• Quotes.Title Drop: Two correct usages.
• LampshadeHanging.Webcomics
• If On A Winters Night A Traveler

Incorrect

• Don't Fear the Reaper: I think it's a typo for Trope Namer.
• A Riddle Wrapped In A Mystery Wrapped In An Enigma: Meant to say Trope Namer again.
• Die, Chair, Die!: Refers to the trope name.
• Four Legs Good, Two Legs Better: Meant Trope Namer.
• God Of War: Meant trope name.
• Imaginary Friend: A drink named "Blue Drink" doesn't fit the spirit of the trope; should be Exactly What It Says on the Tin.
• Saw "Star Wars" Twenty-Seven Times: Meant Trope Namer.
• The Libby: Meant Trope Namer.
• The Walls Are Closing In: Meant Trope Namer.
• Where da White Women At?: Meant Trope Namer.

Not Sure

• Acceptable Professional Targets: Refers to this comic. Does that count? I don't actually know.
• Awesome Series: The quoted line is "Cryptic metaphor". It sounds like it's good, but I'm not sure.
• Script Swap: The context: No, "here is my grocery list! "Amazing thing, amazing thing, amazing thing, amazing thing."" Is that an example?
• Stickin Around: Pretty much the same as the Dinosaur Comics one.
• Celebrity Endorsement: The context is "I heartily endorse this event or product!" which doesn't quite fit, I think. "Hearty endorsement of this event or product!" would be this trope for sure. But I'm not 100% on this.

That's all the relevant wicks. There's some minor misuse mistaking it for Trope Namer, but it's in the single digits. Usage is overwhelmingly correct and not nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

Some of the ambiguous ones look like they may be skirting around a trope I don't think we have, which is the Hello, [Insert Name Here] one. That could be a case of Trope Decay due to Square Peg Round Troping a nonexistant trope into the closest available trope. We could better solve that by clarifying the definition here and YKTTWing the new trope rather than a full rename.

Edit: Tweaked the description to give a clearer definition of the trope.

edited 2nd May '11 1:41:20 PM by troacctid

25 correct, 10 clearly wrong, and 6 uncertain is not "overwhelmingly correct". It's over a third either wrong or unclear.

And whatever you did, at no place on the page does it clearly define the trope. It still reads like a page template. Where does it say anything like "This trope is when someone uses namedrops a trope, pop-culture reference, or other meme in conversation, in the assumption that everyone listening will know what they mean"?

edited 2nd May '11 1:32:26 PM by Madrugada

I really like Trope Name Drop, though.

Also, Self Demonstrating Articles are fun and all, but I thought at some point you have to pause? I mean, like Thread Mode. It demonstrates what Thread Mode is, but it has normal paragraphs telling us in the normal way.

edited 2nd May '11 1:36:29 PM by Catalogue

Here's an idea: [Trope Name] should be a redlink (to prevent stuff like "the [Trope Name] comes from" that shouldn't really be potholed at all), while the trope that's currently there should be called "Article Title."

Wait, what does Trope Name Drop have to do with the trope?

Edit: Checked and If On A Winters Night A Traveler is correct after all.

edited 2nd May '11 1:43:50 PM by troacctid

What the hell is the trope? Someone define the damn thing. From looking at the examples, I can't tell quite what it is. The definition section is a page template.

edited 2nd May '11 1:43:49 PM by Madrugada

A comment explaining to Madrugada what the trope is.

edited 2nd May '11 1:45:09 PM by Catalogue

So, pardon the double post, but, isn't that the trope?

Something like Bash Org's top entry?

It's where stuff is written in this format:

This is the first sentence of this paragraph. This is the second sentence. This is the last sentence in which I do the self-description thing the trope is about.

Like that.

Insert Trope Name Here?

Would it help to have a page image and quote that are examples?

It's like this:

edited 2nd May '11 1:50:39 PM by troacctid

Attempt at further explanation of the trope and clarifying the definition.

Or, basically, I know how to write this trope. I don't know how to explain the trope.

We just need to, after maybe 3-4 paragraphs, drop the gimmick and just tell the audience what the trope is. A la Thread Mode.