frequently misused on the wicks: Buxom Is Better

I'm fine as long as it isn't

a) "Alice has big breasts" or b) "Alice has big breasts and Bob likes the fact"

as both are People Sit On Chairs.

(Note to self: Never stay more than a week away from TV Tropes.)

By your logic, Pettanko should also go, because it's just "Her flat chest is a major character trait. And how is "b" People Sit On Chairs?

On another note, in a short discussion with another troper several months ago on Buxom Is Better's discussion page, I have come to the conclusion that we seem to be shoehorning multiple tropes into one. Here's my take on it - and please, do read the descriptions completely and carefully before you make any opinion or judgment.

• Busty Is Better (aka Buxom Is Better proper): The belief that 1) a true woman has to be big-breasted, and 2) the bigger the breasts, the more feminine/womanly and/or sexually attractive you are; can take the form of a busty girl ridiculing a lesser-endowed peer's lack of "assets", or guys favoring a shallow woman for her bustiness while ignoring the kind-hearted Shrinking Violet with an average-sized chest.
  • This covers cases were the character's bustiness is (either explicitly or implicitly) due to her designer/creator preferring either big-breasted women or just drawing them.
  • Unfortunately Truth in Television in Western society and those that are heavily influenced by it.

• Busty Babe (formerly Buxom Babe): A big-breasted female character whose bustiness is one of the main sources, if not the main source, of fanservice and/or Fetish Fuel from her. The Opposite Trope to Pettanko.
  • The likes of Mai Shiranui, Ivy, Morrigan and Felicia would fall under this; one can't really deny that their character designers aren't purposefully emphasizing their bustiness.

• World Of Busty (formerly World of Buxom): Where every single known/shown female/hermaphrodite character - excluding the occasional Token Loli or Pettanko - is unquestionably big-breasted, even the (usually) nameless extras, to a degree that is dissonant with reality.
  • Godannar is a glaring example; most of the non-pilot cast are clearly Japanese citizens, and yet not one of the girls go below "large" on the Sliding Scale of Anime/Manga Breast Size. Busty Japanese women are a rarity, last time I checked.
  • Similarly guilty are Angel Blade and Divergence Eve.

Of course, there is a reason behind the last two tropes...

• Big Breasts Sell (formerly Buxom Sells): Owing in part to Sex Sells, the majority of character artists/designers/writers either believe that making a female/hermaphrodite character noticeably big-breasted and/or deliberating designing the character and/or her wardrobe to draw Male Gaze to her big breasts would result in increased popularity, and thereby increased profitability, or they don't believe so, but still recognize that it's a relatively prevalent belief and are trying to cash in on it by designing their female/hermaphrodite characters accordingly.

I would appreciate any suggestions to improve the above proposed division.

EDIT: It has been determined that "buxom" is not suitable for the purposes of a specifically "big breasts" trope scheme. Replacing it with more accurate terms.

edited 13th Apr '11 12:11:56 PM by MarqFJA

No. By my logic Pettanko is People Sit On Chairs only if the only requisite is "flat-chested". This is not an issue with Pettanko because the body type gets almost without fail combined with certain other traits such as A-Cup Angst.

On other news, I do agree with your views.

edited 9th Mar '11 10:42:40 AM by peccantis

It's good that we agree on something. I'd also like to point out that at no point (well, to my knowledge, as I regularly check up on any changes to the trope page) had Buxom Is Better been merely "Alice has big breasts".

And for the record, Pettanko isn't just "Alice is flat-chested" - it's rather "Alice is flat-chested, and it's an important character trait". "Important character trait" can simply be "she's board-flat, and is the only one like that in the recurring cast, as the next smallest character is pretty much of 'average' size and significantly bigger than her". She can have A-Cup Angst, Petite Pride, or neither (i.e. ambivalent about size issues).

edited 9th Mar '11 10:15:06 AM by MarqFJA

True, but this discussion exists because people are linking anything with large breasts to Buxom Is Better. If I was the Empress of TV Tropes, I'd keep Buxom Is Better restricted to examples where Word of God or in-universe proof exists to support the betterness of buxom characters (as listed 1 and 2 in the above post). Audience Reaction wouldn't be enough.

Don't get me wrong, I never claimed Pettanko is solely about being flat chested, I just pointed out if it was it would be People Sit On Chairs.

I wandered off before I could properly read your suggestions for division/splits/redefining but now that I've read them, I'd like to repeat, I do like them, and second them.

Buxom Sells: reason why film posters see actresses more endowed than they appear in the film itself.

Random notes to self: A-Cup Angst is directly caused by Buxom Is Better but is not the same thing because it describes the reaction of a character who feels bad about not being able to be a true woman, attractive, etc. because of her flatness.

edited 9th Mar '11 10:51:22 AM by peccantis

In other words, A-Cup Angst and Buxom Is Better are flip sides of the same coin, describe the same basic concept from two different perspectives.

And it may be worthwile to mention that some, if not most, of the misuse may actually be confusing the Buxom Babe definition above with Buxom Is Better proper. What do you think?

The Buxom Babe vs Buxom Is Better sounds plausible and goes together with my own experience.

Ah, I don't agree with "Buxom Babe vs. Buxom Is Better". They're not opposites in the slightest; they often come hand in hand with each other, even.

What, wait. Don't overanalyse. I meant "Buxom Babe vs. Buxom Is Better" as in "what differences they have", not as in "they're opposites".

edited 9th Mar '11 1:57:37 PM by peccantis

Oh, okay. Maybe you should elaborate a little, though. The way that I understand it, you're essentially saying that the two tropes are Sister Tropes, which isn't what I had envisioned... or maybe I am misunderstanding my own words?

I'm not saying that they're sister tropes either. I guess you're confusing my "goes together with my own experience". I meant that as [explanation] sounds like what I've experienced concerning theses tropes myself". For future reference, I'm not a native speaker. My earlier writing experience is mainly from creative writing and Wikipedia, neither of which is too close in language and structures to the YKTTW and TRS discussions.

edited 10th Mar '11 12:46:38 AM by peccantis

Could the fact that the whole article seems to use 'buxom' as a synonym for 'busty' be part of the confusion?

I actually disapproved of using "buxom" in the trope title back during the YKTTW stage, but practically no one listened to me.

Okay, but for future reference, "versus/vs." usually implies opposites.

EDIT: Forgot to add "for".

edited 10th Mar '11 11:53:46 AM by MarqFJA

—-

edited 10th Mar '11 11:38:58 AM by peccantis

I like that layout for the tropes. There was talk about Converting Most Common Superpower for world of buxom in the other thread.

Or Drawn Busty instead of Buxom Babe for the drawn examples if they are given an outfit that flat-out calls attention to it (which I like better because it's always 100% intended to be that way live action ones it might not have been intended.)

edited 15th Mar '11 11:56:09 AM by Raso

I actually had intended World of Buxom to be a Super-Trope to Most Common Superpower.

And I somewhat agree with the general idea of your proposal. But what about non-visual based examples like literature? Or non-drawn visual-based, like CGI? Drawn Busty might be too restricted name-wise, in light of the aforementioned; how about Depicted As Busty?

Besides, I think some - if not many - film/TV series have roles that require the actress to be busty (if not an outright Hourglass Hottie), though I can't think of any off the top of my head.

edited 15th Mar '11 12:31:45 PM by MarqFJA

CGI is still drawn and animated in a computer. Casting someone who fits would require Word of God approval ect very tough to prove while drawn works it's always very much intended and can lead to Big Bra to Fill.

Very good point on books though.

edited 15th Mar '11 12:35:34 PM by Raso

I doubt casting an actress who has a noticeably busty figure (especially if she's well-known for that) in a Ms. Fanservice role would be accidental.

edited 15th Mar '11 1:02:11 PM by MarqFJA

Bump. And for the record, I still stand by my previous post.

I don't think a turning this into a super trope is needed. This trope is already listed under Bigger is Better, and the index for this sort of stuff.

As for the matter of defining it. If we talk about large large breasts on their own then we have gag boobs. If the breasts are bouncing we have Gainaxing. And so on.

A-Cup angst looks to be a related trope as it operates on the in-universe character trait that Bigger breasts = More attractive.

But this looks like a trait of society. Is it serious issue or an off-handed remark. But then we get into the intentions of the writer. I see a similar thing happening with baby's got back. Is it pointed out in-universe or are we to assume that this means anyone with a nice set of breasts.

I think these are some of our main problems here.

edited 4th Apr '11 9:09:58 PM by pokedude10

This is actually wrong, Gag Boobs is about exaggerated large breasts for various purposes.

I never heard of any rule against a Super-Trope being also a Sub-Trope.

This, with the addition that Gag Boobs don't have to be unusually large; Played for Laughs is the primary factor. To quote the article:

edited 5th Apr '11 3:26:34 AM by MarqFJA

That's true as well, we can split a supertrope as a subtrope. For instance Anti-Hero is a supertrope to the various kinds, but is also a subtrope of The Hero.

Right. I forget to add an exaggerated in there.

I still can't see what turning this into a super trope would solve. This already links to other breast tropes such as gag boobs (Blatant exaggeration)and most common superpower (The trend between gaining super powers and getting large breasts).

edited 11th Apr '11 8:30:37 PM by pokedude10

It already is a Super-Trope, though. The problem with it now is one of precise definition, which I address in a post near the top of this page.