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This is a "Wild Mass Guess" entry, where we pull out all the sanity stops on theorizing. The regular entry on this topic is elsewhere. Please see this programme note.
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"Caliborn" is both UU and uu.
The name "Caliborn" is a mix between UU and uu's names, and they merged and became Caliborn just before they entered, thus why "Caliborn" entered. We were never actually told that uu's name is Caliborn, so, yeah.
- Jossed: Merch has shown that uu is in fact named Caliborn.
Lord English is uu in god-tier form.
Ok, let's focus on the basics. We have no clue what uu's title is yet; if it's Lord, than there's that proof. If you guys got anything, add on.
- His aspect is probably Time, considering Calliope's Muse of Space; and we all know what Lord English does to time on a regular basis.
- As stated in A 6 I 3, Caliborn is indeed LE and the Lord of Time. Now, if he's god-tiered or not, it's still somewhat wild speculation.
- If true, the Cairo Overcoat could be the God Tier outfit for a Lord of Time.
LE arriving in the dream bubble is a hint of him being godtier uu.
When he arrives, the land changes to his memories, those of his manor. He lands on a red quest-bed, possibly uu's.
Lord English is a god-tier dreamselfsprite fusion.
Either uu or UU gets self-prototyped, then prototyped again with the dreamself of the other, and then finally goes god-tier. We've already seen the volatile, self-loathing mix of two people being prototyped, or the power of dreamselfsprite fusion!
UU is a Chimera
See, there's this biological phenomenon called chimerism, which is basically the opposite of identical twins? Instead of one fertilized egg producing two identical babies, two or more fertilized eggs produce one individual with a patchwork of different DNA. If one of the contributing zygotes is genetically male and the other is genetically female, chimerism can result in an intersex individual. And in people, one of the most common symptoms of chimerism is actually the person in question having more than one blood type running through their veins.
Maybe the Uu session's ectobiology machine glitched, and instead of producing two offspring grubs from their ancestor/s' paradox slime, it produced a chimera grub with a mixed blood color (black blood? tie-dye christmas blood? Who even the fuck knows) and mixed sex traits. Sburb, realizing it done fucked up, then induced Multiple Personality Disorder in the patchwork trollbaby so that the minimum number of people needed to play Sburb could be achieved.
Time shenanigans via Trollian and sburb-granted time powers will probably need to be liberally used, though, in order to make entering the medium Not Fucking Impossible.
Dreamselves tend to be closer to the individual's personal image of themself (terezi likes being blind and thus her dreamself is blind, while tavros doesn't like being crippled and so his dreamself can walk), so UU and uu's seperate dreamselves could manifest as having the blood color and physical sex that they imagine they would have if they hadn't been merged into a single person at inception. Assuming that the recent Calmasis' Legs panel is more indicative of their blood color than their chat symbols are, UU identifies as a redblood because she is a bluh bluh huge humaboo or some shit.
- Or, given Gamzee already has shown split personality disorder to some extent and many of the other trolls have mental disorders, limebloods are just particularly prone to develop multiple personalities. The whole shenanigans with Chimerism is intriguing but there's no indication that ectobiology machines can even glitch in that way; all shown ones have been pretty reliably fool proof, especially when it comes to making the players and their ancestors. There's more to UU than there seems to be as well, as she told Jake her name would probably best never told, meaning she might outright be someone already existent in the cast (or not a Troll at all) and the brief appearance hints we've seen have all been a deliberate misdirection.
- Besides which, none of this explains why UU said she and uu have different blood colors.
UU is evil
She's nice right? However the trolls acted nasty to the kids but ultimately helped them out. So it's entirely possible UU is a Manipulative Bastard
. Heck, she may even be
- Feferi made almost no attempts to be nasty, actually. And many of the trolls who tried to be, utterly failed.
- Taking this WMG to an extreme: The Caduceus can represent "deception". The symbol itself is of two snakes encircling a winged staff. It's entirely possible that Jane will go into the Medium by eating an apple, making UU the "snake in the garden". Who was Flanderized into The Devil. In short, UU is the Alpha-equivalent to Doc Scratch, and he's getting around his Villains Never Lie by pulling a prank.
- Karkat turned out to be Troll Jesus. If UU does turn out to be the Anti-Karkat, it makes sense she'd be Troll Satan.
- Alternatively, UU may be Betty Crocker. Perish the thought!
- Re: UU being a really girly male/nongendered person: if this happens there'll be a note about Jane wondering why she thought that (cheers sure are weird!) despite calling UU "an alien girl from Uranus" and UU only noting she's not from Jane's solar system/universe.
- If the scratched session makes the kid's guardians the players, then the troll's ancestors should be the contacts. In that case if UU is in fact Ferferi's ancestor, then the kids should be afraid. Be very, very afraid.
- That's Jossed (by Meenah, who's absolutely nothing like either UU or uu), and based on a misunderstanding anyway: the trolls contacted the pre-Scratch kids because they're the ones who created them (and normally shouldn't contact another session at all). Unless there's a mobius double reach around coming, contact between the post-Scratch kids and pre-Scratch trolls shouldn't be possible, and even if it was it should be the kids contacting the trolls.
UU is not to be trusted.
One of the major themes of Homestuck is fighting destiny, predestination, and being forced to do things simply because time says so. UU has been careful to avoid "causal spoilers", but she told Jane what is possibly the biggest one—that Jane's session succeeds.
- UU's symbol is the caduceus, used by Hermes, the Greek god of thieves and liars who also guides souls to the underworld (although the other wiki uses a symbol that looks like the rod of Asclepius (see below), a healer who could talk to animals thanks to some friendly snakes cleaning his
UU will give bad advice.
The trolls were initially dismissed as being unhelpful, but eventually became a useful source of information. UU will reverse this trend: her advice will be followed at first, but will gradually be realised to be useless, either accidentally or because she is attempting to sabotage the session.
- Both UU and uu seem to be giving good advice thus far, albeit uu unintentionally so.
uranianUmbra is one of the Game's developers.
Or at least an Alpha Tester. This would give reason to why they know so much about the game even though they said this would be their first time playing- they're lying by omission. This also could explain why they hope the Alphas play the game- really, who wouldn't want to see their game unfold on their characters?
- She's researched it as a historian. But these things aren't mutually exclusive.
- uu's comments seem to support this, as they are playing Sburb mostly to escape the incoming Reckoning; unless that is a well understood phenomenon by society and Sburb is widespread and they are simply playing the game together
Also, in their first scene, they're playing "Homestuck" as a text-based adventure game,
which could mean that they might not be playing an S-game at all, but communicating to the children through the Text-game.
- Then again, this may be due to Roxy's Void powers meaning this is the best interface for them to use.
UU has some relation to Rose or Dirk
Uracil is a nucleotide base that is contained in RNA rather than Thymine, which is in DNA. This implies that there may be some relation, connection, or instance of being the same individual as one another between Uranian Umbra (UU, 2 Uracil), and either Tentacle Therapist or Timaeus Testified (TT, 2 Thymine).
- uu has a bit of an association with Dirk at least, as he is the only one uu can stand to talk to.
We will, at some point, get a chat between UU and at least one of the Beta kids post-arrival.
Either she'll contact then when she knows they're there, or one of the Beta kids will hear from one of the Alpha kids about her and pester her themselves.
UU has something to do with Lord English
This goes into the much-discussed theory that she may be evil or misguiding. But while Dirk pointing out her British tendencies could merely imply that she is lime-blooded, it could also be an allusion to something to do with Lord English? I'm not sure, I haven't really thought this one out too much yet. I just jumped onto the British/English thing. (And yes, I know that they are not inherently the same thing. But work with me here!)
- Don't forget the snakes! And Echidna (ie, head snake lady) in the Pre-Scratch Troll sessions brought Doc Scratch and English into the Troll Universe, so there's that too.
- UU seemed to change a bit right after the part where Hussie (dressed in clothes resembling what little we've seen of UU) got shot a little bit by LE. And, tying in with the snakes - there's two of them, resembling the duality of LE and DS.
- Cuffs with the symbols of UU and uu on what's probably Calmasis' legs? If Calmasis is an allegorical Lord English or Doc Scratch, this further implies a connection, about which post-Scratch Rose knew.
- Interestingly enough, I didn't think those were Calmasis' legs. They looked too inhuman... too much like the legs of... Lord English.
- Semi-Confirmed. She appears to be the same species as Lord English.
UU is a lying liar who lies
She says she hasn't entered her session yet, but she's typing on an exile terminal???? Also, she goes on and on about refraining from 'spoilers', but also doesn't know anything that actually happens in the session due to Roxy?
- She's typing on an unknown terminal, which draws inspiration from both Trollian and Exile terminals, and regardless, Sburb technology has a habit of leaking out before the session proper begins (Jade's Lunchtop etc). Also her dialogue indicates that she knows the outcome of the session and the events thereof in a historical context, probably said firsthand from one of the surviving players, before becoming part of the mythology of the resurrected Troll civilization.
Lord English is the Doctor
Think about it for a moment:
- He is nigh impossible to kill, using stable timeloops and fixed timeline to stay alive.
- His name is English (and that isn't even his real name).
- He travels through time and space in a box.
- Since it is confirmed (or as confirmed as anything Homestuck related can be) that Caliborn is Lord English, then this theory is supported even further:
- He may be the last of his kind, and if so, it is because he killed the only other surviving member of his race.
- He wears a bow tie and suspenders.
- His aspect is Time, and his class is implied to be called Lord. Thus, his title would be "Lord of Time."
UU and uu are from a universe which has already played Sburb.
The latter's dialog heavily suggests that the word they are from is a "DESOLATE ROCK" with a "HuNDRED BILLION CORPSES FERTILIZING THE SOIL." That's a fair description of a post-Reckoning planet, and UU seems to be using an exile terminal to watch the kids.
- uu might simply have future knowledge of the Reckoning.
- Actually, if UU has lime-colored blood, that would match the color of The Felt's membership along with The First Guardians, right? What if UU/uu simply hail from a universe inside the Green Sun, or destroyed by Lord English's conquest?
- Universes are frogs, many of which orbit the Green Sun. There's no evidence that the Green Sun itself is a universe nor a living thing (that would propagate itself via the SBURB creation cycle).
- Seemingly confirmed! Unless there's some weirder than usual time shenanigans involved in their own session, the presence of an intact, building-covered, post-Reckoning meteor seems like good evidence that they are from a planet that's already played once. The mention of "whoever used to live on this planet" might be related to that (i.e. as the reason they no longer do).
uu's class is...
- Pimp: If uu has a class we've never seen before, and if he's Lord English's younger self, then it would make sense for him to be the Pimp of Time as it matches the character and follows the one-syllable rule.
- Lord: Compare the Prince class, a similarly active class.
- Bow tie and suspenders. He's got a similar taste in clothing as the eleventh Doctor.
- Scribe: It's makes a nice counterpart to Muse.
- Since Muse is supposed to be super-duper-passive, uu's class should be super-duper-active.
- Yeah, Scribe doesn't seem all that active.
- It does if you consider that a Scribe is a writer or author, and Hussie's dead now.
- Waste: He claims to be the master of RedHerrings, which could be foreshadowing that he is, in fact, not Lord English, and we're all wasting our time by thinking about it. It would also make sense that Hussie would have a master class.
- King: Again, compare with Prince. It would also continue the chess motif.
- End: Tying in with the fact that he can only enter a universe upon its destruction - the end of time.
- All of these are jossed except Lord.
uu will become Lord English
Of course his dislike of Dirk's "Juju" points away from this theory.
However, if Calliope becomes Lord English instead (remember, it's not his real name) and takes over uu's powers and title (which might not be even necessary, if they indeed are the same person), it could work out. Somehow
- Adding to this, the name is taken from Jake. Perhaps even as a... trophy.
- Jake was said to be named after LE, so while that would create a stable time loop it doesn't seem all that likely.
- It would be fun though
- At one point uu gets furious at Jake for stealing his look. Stealing his name for his new title would be decent payback.
- uu is god tier LE?
Not only do uuUU share a body, this is normal for their species.
This could even be linked to their inevitable "highly confrontational and violent" courtship.
TT: Minus n is so you don't pair people up with themselves. That wouldn't make sense. uu: AND WHY THE FuCK NOT?? TT: Well, because... TT: I don't know. TT: Maybe you're right. Maybe I was being close-minded about self-pairing. What do I know? uu: JACK SHIT OBVIOuSLY.
- Adding to this, the reason why courtships are so violent is because each paired individual is fighting for control. If the male personality wins, they will mate as a male and vice versa.
- Core of the theory confirmed. The link to cherub courtship is not quite as predicted.
Lord English is uu, and UU shares the same body. Knowing Calliope's name is essential to victory.
Combining several of the above theories, Lord English is a grown up undyingUmbrage. Lord English's time powers come from him being a member of the most powerful active class in SBURB, the [???] of Time, having won and defeated his sister in their session. When the heroes confront Lord English in the future, Roxy will call out Calliope's name and put him to sleep, allowing the heroes to win.
- And Roxy will fuck her name up and it won't work.
- I love you, whoever you are.
- I think Jake will be the one to do so, myself.
- Knowing Calliope's name is worthless because she is well and truly dead.
Lil Cal is, or strongly resembles, UU's juju.
Explaining uu's dislike (fear?) of it.
- Then why does she say that it won't mean anything to Jane unless she has uu's juju as well?
- It might also have something to do with the fact that uu's nickname for Calliope is "Cal".
- Jossed: Caliborn and Calliope's jujus are both lollipops.
uu is Lord English and the name is taken from a stable time loop.
As we know it is not his "real" name. Perhaps, if he really is uu/was uu, it's taken from Jake. Maybe as a trophy for killing him. Maybe for other reasons.
uu is attracted to Dirk.
In the human way. Given his interest in human affection, perhaps his constant badgering of Dirk is his way of hinting at it. When it comes to cherub mating, though, he is purely interested in "the bitches."
- Combining this and the above, uu takes the name Lord English, knowing Dirk's attraction to Jake English. He's hoping to alter himself to better suit Dirk's tastes- or at least get his attention.
A juju is the "soul container" of a cherub.
uuUU share a body, but only one of them can be active at a time. The inactive personality's consciousness enters their respective juju for safe keeping while they slumber. Lil Cal is the juju of a deceased cherub or other character not yet introduced, explaining why uu describes him as apparently dead.
- Alternatively, Lil Cal is Calliope's juju, and the points where uu views him are times where uu is chronologically dormant, meaning Lil Cal is unoccupied by Calliope's spirit.
- Not true by definition, but it appears Caliborn has appropriated Cal as his soul container in a sense.
uu intends to kill Calliope by ascending to God Tier.
comic, uu says he's going to kill Calliope in her sleep, "MAYBE EVEN. MORE THAN ONCE." He's already killed her dream self in her sleep, so if he did it again, it would have to be her real self. However, if Calliope and uu share a body, and one is awake while the other is asleep, killing Calliope in her sleep would mean killing himself
while he's awake. Maybe he hates her so much he's willing to kill himself to kill her too, but if that's the case, why hasn't he done it already? He could be waiting to do it on their Quest Bed. Then his dream self will ascend to God Tier, but since Calliope's dream self is already dead (courtesy of Jack Noir), she'll just stay dead. It's possible uu only agreed to play the game because he realized it was his chance to kill Calliope without dying himself.
- Seemingly jossed, as the death of her dream self was the means of killing her real self.
uu's name is Midnight
It sounds kind of dumb but humans have 4 letter names, trolls have 6 letter names, and Calliope is an 8 letter name. There is a song for Gamzee (whose horns resemble Calliope's trollsona) called MIDNIGHT CALLIOPE, midnight also having 8 letters.
uu's name ends with -masis.
Since Calmasis seems to represent them both, his name could be a mixture between both of theirs.
There is a third personality within Calliope/undyingUmbrage's body.
And it is the proto Lord English. The other two personalities were suppressing it but with the likely destruction/weakening of the Calliope personality it will break out.
- Traditionally, cherubs are said to have four faces.
- And their chat names would be uU and Uu. uu with red blood (Acts 1,2,3,4 Act 5 Act 1, I 1 and 2), Calliope with green blood (Entire act 6), uU with blue (Act 5 Act 1) and Uu with white (Act 7)
uu's right leg is chained with Calliope's symbol.
He will take extreme measures to escape said chain, cutting the leg off in another Saw reference. Who else is missing their right leg? Well... he is already here.
- That is an f'ing brilliant theory, but there's just one catch. Lord English is missing his right leg. Calliope chains up their left leg. This means that it's Calliope that would have to saw the leg off to get out, but then again, forcing the victim to "Saw" off their leg seems more in keeping with the movie.
uuUU share a body.
When uu is conscious, the chain swaps legs through a sprite flip. An excellent callback to the Intermission, where Lord English was first mentioned.
- This is the most awesomest theory ever.
- Remember the page that shows Calmasis' chained legs? Look where each chain is. Yeah.
Oh snap! This rekindles the theory that Lord English is us!
And if uu is LE it could be interpreted as the haters destroying Homestuck.
If Calliope is LE it could be he feeds on universe the same way the fandom "feeds" on the updates.
Lord English will be defeated by killing him in his juvenile form.
Which is to say, Calliope/uu. This might also explain uu threatening to kill Calliope "MORE THAN ONCE".
- But that's impossible; his adult form is, of course, already here.
uu is Lord English, but he has absorbed some aspects of Calliope as well.
Namely, her green skin (assuming uu's skin is red), the Lord English name (from Calliope's British affectations), and generally anything else that has suggested Calliope would become Lord English.
- The green skin has been confirmed. However, LE has been shown using a certain white wand. You know. The one Calliope uses.
- Caliborn has green skin as well.
Calliope is Doc Scratch.
He's and "alternate personality" of Lord English, just as Calliope is (probably) an alternate personality of uu, and Lil Cal was used to create Doc Scratch. How she identified as male, got a cueball as a head, took on the white text and correct punctuation, and got Doc Scratch's personality is unclear.
- Could mean something else, but the white magnum/wand that Calliope uses is very similar to Doc Scratch's gun.
- Jossed; she's in the Furthest Ring.
uu's name is that of a figure from Greek Mythology
he relates to somehow, and his class is whatever that figure was.
was the muse
of epic poetry in Greek mythology - appropriate for someone as obsessed at chronicling the chain of sessions as the Homestuck version was. One would expect uu's name to be derived similarly.
- If we're going with the 'Cal' theme...Callimachus was a Greek poet who famously hated the epic form.
- A bit unrelated- given that it's Roman- but it just hit me that if his title is "Lord" then an emperor's name would fit... and then I realized, Caligula is 8 letters.
- I personally thought it might be Sisyphus. He was a greek king who attempted to cheat death (like the way he cheated in the chess game?). Calmasis would then have a part form uu and a part from UU. Wouldn't know what the 'ma' would stand for though.
- Jossed, all of them. He's called Caliborn, which might be a Shout-Out to Excalibur (aka Caliburn).
- It also recalls Caliban from The Tempest a little - relevant to his "monstrousness" aspect
Lord English killed Andrew Hussie because of his resemblance to Calliope.
This assumes English is uu, and could be another way for him to kill Calliope "MORE THAN ONCE".
uu will become Lord English by prototyping his universe's first guardian and his own (or maybe Calliope's) dreamself, then going god-tier, in a dark mirror of Jade.
There are few power upgrades more potentially potent, and wasn't the Green Sun said to be Lord English's power source as well as that of the First Guardians?
UU, not uu, is Lord English; furthermore, "Lord English" is just a character she plays.
Calliope enjoys cosplaying, it's stated that she considers the characters in the game as actual CHARACTERS and not necessarily real people... she'll end up sawing her leg off, giving her a missing a leg (like Lord English - remember that, as Slick has demonstrated, characters can flip their sprites to get around handicaps); she'll wear red makeup to cover her green swirls; she'll put on a fake gold tooth - something referenced by uu during their chess match. Essentially, she will dress up and then enter the universe in order to be able to interact with the characters she's been obsessing over for so long.
UU and uu are playing Homestuck as a game against each other
The conversation that UU and uu have while playing chess takes on an entirely different meaning if you interpret a lot of what they are saying as applying to the rest of the webcomic.
Lord English's real name is Thanatos.
Calliope, who is clearly linked to him, takes her name from a Greek muse. Thanatos is the Greek personification of death. LE's actions apparently inspired the Alternian concept of a grim reaper. Thanatos also has 8 letters, matching Calliope. Just food for thought.
Jujus are the same person...
...by Cherub standards. A juju is your literal soulmate who you share your life with. They are seen by Cherubs as parts of one person, and it's why pairing someone with themselves is not considered strange by uu (and possibly others of their species.
Act 7 will be set primarily in Calliope's universe, which has white curtains.
Each universe is associated with a color, which is used in the curtains that open/close the acts and the dots on the Homestuck "map". The pre-scratch kids' universe (B1) is red (Acts 1-4 and Act 5 Act 2), the post-scratch Trolls' universe (A2) is blue (Act 5 Act 1), and the post-scratch kids' universe (B2) is green (Act 6). The map represent Act 7 as a white dot, indicating a universe separate from all of the previous ones. Since Calliope's universe is apparently separate from all of the others, it could be the "white" universe.
- This goes well with the theory that Calliope's universe is the one that will eventually be created by the post-scratch kids' session: since it exists thanks to the combined efforts of the red, blue, and green universes, what better color than white?
Two explanations of why God Tier uu would be missing a leg (assuming he is Lord English):
These are based on two above theories: uu cuts off his own leg to escape the unbreakable shackle, and he gets Green Sun powers by prototyping a First Guardian and his dreamself, then ascending to God Tier.
- Terezi's dreamself echoed her blindness because losing her sight allowed her to connect with her Lusus for the first time. Similarly, uu's dreamself will echo his handicap because losing his leg allowed him freedom.
- Sprites don't have legs. When uu fuses with his dreamself to become God Tier, he'll still only have one leg, because he and his (sprite) dreamself only have one leg between them.
- He doesn't merely cut off his leg. He chews it off.
uu switching the King and Queen in the chess game is foreshadowing how Lord English will be defeated.
uu's plan is to prototype his kernelsprite with a First Guardian and his dead dreamself, then ascend to God Tier to get bonus sprite and Green Sun powers, just like Jade. However, the good guys will somehow switch his dreamself with Calliope's, tricking him into prototyping with her body instead. Thus, Lord English will still be part Calliope, and Roxy will awaken her by calling her name.
Doc Scratch is uu's (possibly prototyped) Juju.
Building upon the hints that uu is Lord English and post-Scratch Lil' Cal is UU's Juju. This would explain Doc's connection to Lord English.
- This, of course, could mean that pre-Scracth Lil' Cal (or, less likely, the magic cue ball) is also uu's Juju.
UU/uu's planet is Earth.
The Statues of Liberty were put on the Earth by the last few humans, who had a warped sense of humor.
UU/uu's planet is Mars
Earth will be destroyed by the Sun's expansion to a red supergiant, based on current predictions. Strider sent plenty of things into outer space, and some of it fell back to Earth, so naturally some could have fallen to Mars. The ground is red, the Troll Meteor suggests the planet is the target of some of the meteors of the Reckoning of the Alpha Session, and there has been a semi-forgotten Mars Colony that was set up by Betty Crocker, so Mars already has significance within the story. While this does leave the problem of the Red Miles naturally, Calliope already offered a solution to that, in that different instances of the Human Universe are destroyed at different times. 5 billion more years for one of the most critical universes is probably but a blink to the Genesis Frog.
Jack Noir destroyed the universe in hopes of killing Lord English in the crib.
Going with the theories above, he knows the young Lord English is within it, and everything he's done to this point in the story has been an attempt to destroy him. Unfortunately, it'll take too long to reach his universal instance...
uu is the Lord of Time, hence why he would call himself Lord English.
Or to put it another way, he's a Time Lord
Uu are LE's self-inserts.
There are three people in Hussie's study. Ms Paint is out cold, and Slick wouldn't be interested in writing the story. The only other person left is LE, who clearly is writing the story and ensuring that he would be eventually created. It's kinda his MO
- This is a ridiculously awesome theory. There have been enough meta influences on the plot so far to also make it kinda plausible.
Lord English is a Scratch-flipped uu.
If uu is the Hero of Time, that means there is a Beat Mesa or equivalent on his planet. This opens the possibility for uu to have Scratched their session, or for the duo to be a result of a Scratch. And thus far in the story, the only time an older version of a character has shown up, it was an age up or age down via Scratch. Therefore, Lord English is very likely either what uu became following/prior to a Scratch, or to be uu and UU's ancestor/descendant. *Whew*.
- Which would make a lot of uu's characterization either foreshadowing, or... well, he DID say Red Herrings flowed through his veins, didn't he.
Lord English is the result of uu combining the components of a First Guardian with himself as a model.
Much in the same manner Halley was used as a model for Bec or Lil' Cal was used for Doc Scratch, uu could have been used as a base for Lord English, creating a clone of himself with First Guardian powers... which explains his connection to the Green Sun, and possibly why English has billiard balls for eyes given Scratch's cueball head- there's nothing saying he can see, after all, and Doc Scratch got around just fine without eyes...
Cherub romance is like kismessissitude
Like troll matespritship is similar to human romance, kismessissitude is similar to cherub romance. The other three quadrants Calliope was talking about here
were auspisticm, matespritship and moirallegiance.
Caliborn will be the Pimp of Time
Dave's next echeladder rank is Pimpslayer, Dave wields swords, and Caliborn sounds similar to Excalibur. He refers to all women, atleast the Alpha Females, as "bitches", much like a stereotypical pimp might.
Calliope will become a troll
Jade always dreamed of becoming an anthro creature and read lots of literature on the subject, Kanaya always dreamed of becoming a rainbow drinker and read a lot of literature on the subject. Both are heroes of space, and Jade merged with Bec while Kanaya gained the powers through means not yet explained. Calliope is a space player and wishes she was a troll.
- Confirmed, somewhat. She is now able to make herself appear as her trollsona.
Caliborn isn't the dominant personality of Lord English.
Calliope's personality will return at an inconvenient point in Caliborn's session. Calliope's "death" caused a permanent biological change that made their body run down the male growth pattern, which could easily mask a female inside. Calliope will be driven insane- possibly by seeing Caliborn's carnage, or possibly from being Squick
'd out by the body she's in- and inherit Caliborn's powers and personality.
Caliborn finds things pornographic that most people find pretty tame because of the unusual way that cherubim reproduce.
Calliope will become a troll, sort of.
All 3 Heroes of Space have idolized and read a lot about a thing and wanted to become that thing. (Jade= furry, Kanaya= rainbow drinker, Calliope= troll) Through various shenanigans, Jade now has dog ears and Kanaya is a rainbow drinker, so eventually Calliope will be a troll one way or another.
- Confirmed, somewhat. She is now able to make herself appear as her trollsona.
The Caliborn we see is NOT Lord English proper: rather, he's the vessel for a piece of his soul (most likely an important piece at that).
It's stated that Lord English was forced to split up his soul due to the fight with Cronus. Given what this is all based on, who says one of them can't be alive?
There are a couple ways this could work:
-Lord English is a scratch-flipped Caliborn (as a WMG above explains). LE is simply using his pre/post-scratch counterpart as a vessel for a chunk of his soul.
-Caliborn is NOT in fact LE's real name; it's something MUCH more terrifying, and everyone calls him 'Caliborn' out of either misunderstanding, simplicity, fear, or any combination thereof.
If and when Caliborn goes god tier...
...it will be in a flash ("[S] Caliborn: Rise up."), set to a dark remix of Savior of the Waking World - perhaps an octave lower, in a minor key, sped up, and/or incorporating elements from Eternity's Shylock
In addition to his Cairo Overcoat, Lord English also has a London Overcoat.
And it takes the form of a police box
Calliope's fanfiction makes things happen in the comic.
This is connected to her Muse of Space powers
- Extrapolating from this, her dreamself literally appears in the scenes she describes, but is invisible. This would make her fanfic accurate to the events that occurred.
- Now my Lord of the Rings knowledge isn't great, but wasn't there something about being able to see and be seen by others where that normally would be impossible while wearing the ring? Considering the references we already saw... (Is the ring tavros had maybe a ring of void from the alpha session?)
- Alternatively, given how passive the Muse is supposed to be, she's PREDICTING what happens in the comic, and in all those scenes, her self-insert doesn't effect anything. Calliope sees and knows everything without realizing it.
Following on from the above, LE is not actually Caliborn, but rather Caliborn's self-insert Gary Stu character.
- If Calliope's fanfic is passively making things happen in the story, who's to say Caliborn's idealized, badass, buff as hell pimped-out insert isn't killing the characters in the story for his enjoyment? LE is actually working ACTIVELY inside the story, as opposed to Calliope working PASSIVELY. Just as Callie Opeeee is kind of a mary sue self-insert who is just kind of there, observing, Lord English is a Gary Stu that is there destroying EVERYTHING. one reckons with the 20th of November, 2012 update that he inserts LE using that terminal he finds.
The Caliborn/Lord English thing is a set-up for the biggest red herring mind screw yet
...in this update
, and likely others, are being dictated to him by Lord English. Think about it: Lord English has, in an earlier part of the story, gone behind the Fourth Wall and killed Hussie. This suggests that he's taken over narration as well. Lord English is using this to dictate thoughts to Caliborn and encourage him to turn into an all-destroying monster. An all-destroying monster... like Lord English. In this way, LE's use of his Time powers are ensuring his own creation in as direct (and unsubtle) a way as possible.
Caliborn's thought's are Hussie
As a contrast to the above, Andrew Hussie is somehow contacting Caliborn from the dream bubbles. Think about it, they have hussie's typing quirk (or rather, his lack of one) and seem pretty intelligent!
Cherubim reproduce by kissing
The Cherubim evolved on the world eventually created by the kids
One thing that is always true about time in Homestuck is that everything manages to cause itself. Therefore we can expect that the kids manage to cause Lord English. This also provides an explanation for how Dirk's Bro's Jpegs arrived on Calliope's and Caliborn's planets.
Caliope will reach god tier...
...because someone will have swapped the mattress of her bed in the Prospit tower with her quest bed, just like how Caliborn swapped the chess pieces.
Caliope's juju is the coat that snowman wears.
We know juju have space/time powers, it glows green and is apparently very beautiful. It's also supposed to be a counterpart to Caliborn's juju, so perhaps his coat binds the user to to the universe and her coat binds the universe to the user. (~Ath?)
Lil' Cal is either Calliope's juju or Caliborn's
Caliborn freaked out when he saw the Scratch-duplicated Lil' Cal with Dirk. At the time, since the concept of jujus was introduced right then and there, there was no feasible way to determine whether Caliborn's reaction was unusual or not. Now that we have a (somewhat) better understanding of jujus, it seems strange that he would react so strongly to the appearance of a random juju in the B2 universe. Of the facts we do have about jujus and the ongoing game between Calliope and Caliborn, we know that each of them has a personal juju that the other desperately desires, and they are useless individually. Either Caliborn panicked because Lil' Cal is Calliope's juju, thwarting his efforts for good, or the puppet is his juju, indicating that he is destined to lose his at some point in the future.
Both Jake and Caliborn have something to do with Lord English's origin
It has been pretty much confirmed that Caliborn is a young Lord English. However, it is unlikely to be that simple, given how much Hussie likes to mess with the readers. Also, it would be completely fitting to have something about LE's origin involve a Stable Time Loop
. It could be as simple as him getting the name "English" from Jake, who's last name would be Harley hadn't Grandma!Jade changed it due to LE himself. Many other things could come from this kind of interaction, such as LE's appearance (from Jake's computers), or, even more sinister, Lord English could be some sort of combined being of Jake and Caliborn
Caliborn will save the universe.
mind you. But Hussie, assuming that is who is contacting him via narration, seems pretty set on ensuring the sequence of events that leads to him winning his session despite stating it will lead to "terrible events". There are two possible reasons for this, baring Hussie having an insane revenge plan. The first is that Lord English is required for something. A problem in Paradox Space that can't be resolved without his existence. The other is that it's a trick, and he's grooming Caliborn into a Tyke Bomb
to use against English in the future.
destroys planets and fucks up the lives of a lot of people, and it's been theorised that the game itself is malevolent, particularly with the "alpha timeline" bullshit which locks some groups into unwinnable sessions. Thus, it may be linked to the Big Bad
. It's possible LE created the game to provide a ready source of universes to feed from, then sent it to his kid self in a horrible mobius timeline reacharound.
Observe his traits;
- Unable to function socially, though that's probably more from living alone in a cell all his life.
- Poor hand-eye coordination, going by his attempts to draw.
- Gets angry about look-and-feel changes with computer setups, even when the changes make things easier.
- "I just have an easier time thinking in colours."
- Reacts very strongly to annoying music yet doesn't seem bothered by the extreme physical pain of gnawing his own leg off; it's not unknown for certain stimuli to be unbearable to AS-affected people even while other things that would bother another person are ignored.
- As far as is known, AS is not entirely caused by any physical or genetic thing, though genetics can make one more likely to have it, hence why Calliope doesn't have the same problems.
Caliborn is not Lord English. The dominant Calliope from a doomed timeline is.
A bit farfetched, but we are in Hussie territory
after all. The hints and claims that Caliborn's is Lord English are in fact red-hearings as implied by Caliborn himself. The reason Lord English is trying to destroy alpha!Calliope is not, as she herself believes, become s/he is an older Caliborn, but rather because s/he hopes that removing the alpha!Calliope will allow him/her to take her place and save him/her from his/her doomed status.
Serenity is, and has always been, Calliope
As suggested by her recent communication with Roxy. We don't actually know where Serenity came from (prior to her being found preserved in amber by WV). She has been present throughout Homestuck, in a vast variety of places, *passively* and unobtrusively influencing events in a form that LE was unlikely to notice.
When/if Calliope turns out to be a "Muse English
" of sorts, she will introduce herself to LE with something along the lines of "Dear brother, how did you expect to get rid of me WHEN I'M ALREADY HERE!?
And cue Lord English having the single most epic Oh, Crap
moment in the entire comic once he realizes that he has finally met his match.
- I support this wholeheartedly. I also believe Calliope will get a Cairo Evening Gown. And it will be GLORIOUS.
"Eternity's Shylock" foreshadows LE's eventual end.
He will, like the Shylock of Shakespeare, be brought down by the rules-lawyering of a crossdressing girl. (In this case, some version of Calliope.)
Caliborn/Lord English's 'Unconditional Immortality' is actually Cherub Mating Immortality
Aranea said that Yaldabaoth shouldn't have the power to grant unconditional immortality like that - what if his so-called unconditional immortality was actually just unlocking the invulnerability-to-all-but-Cherub-counterpart normally found in Cherub Mating and managing to use it without scaling up
? This would also explain the purpose of the worldbuilding - its a Chekhov's Gun
to explain how a LE-level Calliope will be able to defeat him despite his invulnerability.
- It follows that his defeat by LE-level Calliope will result in them mating; after he loses, he will then lay the egg that eventually hatches into him and Calliope, thereby fulfilling the paradox-ancestry that is required of a SBURB player.
At some point in the final battle, Calliope will use an underhanded tactic similar to Caliborn's chess trickery.
And it will result in Calliope and Caliborn's trickster gambit maxing out in Calliope's favor. Maybe even with a reaction shot of Lord English's incredibly shocked face.
Caliborn's SBURB Endgame Theory
- After sinking the 8th planet, Earth will come to life as Caliborn's true land.
- Caliborn will probably receive either Snowman's hat or Snowman's heart for sinking the 8th planet, since he obviously doesn't get a leprechaun.
- After defeating Yaldabaoth in his true land, the Black Hole will explode, resulting in the "second 8R8K"
- From inside the black hole, Caliborn's final planet will appear: the Green Moon.
- The Green Moon will be inhabited by leprechauns, and Caliborn will have to conquer it in a way so that he does not alienate the leprechaun teammates he has unlocked (The Felt). To do this, Caliborn will havbe to make use of his wicked cunning and incredible intelligence, the developement of which was cut short due to him predominating early, as well as his learning disability. Therefore, conquering the Green Moon will be nearly impossible, as it will require Caliborn to make use of traits he hasn't developed. Dead Session, everybody!
- The king/leader of the Leprechauns will be Caliborn's final boss. The fight will be nearly impossible to win without the help of the Felt, thereby necessitating Caliborn to keep them on his side while he conquers the planet. The king of the leprechauns will wear the Cairo Overcoat. What better person to wear a garment literally made of the fabric of time than the leader of a species of time-affiliated tricksters?
- Upon defeating the king, Caliborn will not only gain the Cairo Overcoat, but also complete dominance over the leprechaun planet. After all, a dead session is still a fairly regular SBURB session. It's one player and designed to be almost impossible, but that's just it. It's DESIGNED. As in purposefully. So there must be some kind of reward. And what better punishment for the player than downgrading their rule of a universe to rule of a planet?
Caliborn metamorphoses into Lord English by sealing himself inside Doc Scratch until the universe ends.
You know, like a butterfly.
Lord English has a memetic hazard effect.
No, not THAT kind of "memetic"
(well, okay, he does
have that too); he has the OTHER kind
. Basically, while it doesn't work on people outside of the comic (yet
) the idea is that the more someone knows about him, the more likely he is to kill them. This is why he targeted Andrew and why Grandma!Jade decided to learn more about him; she plotted to wait until the time was right and then allow him to come to her once the Condesce came to confront her (in a sort of Batman Gambit Taking You with Me
combo platter). The Condesce decided to nip the whole thing in the bud by killing her, but she left Jake. Jake has extensive knowledge of LE and shortly afterward gets targeted by Caliborn. Coincidence?
Deep down, Caliborn just wants to have friends.
Lord English's Soul Jar
, Lil Cal, despite being a Creepy Doll
, is described by many as a friend. Dirk views him as a parental figure, Hussie can't stay mad at him at one point, even Bec Noir claims that Lil Cal is a true friend. The only one he has ever known. Maybe Caliborn wants to have some friends, and Lil Cal shows this by other people's reactions to him.
Why he's an Omnicidal Maniac
who destroys universes does not currently fit in with this theory.
When/if she returns, she'll do something that triggers a positive change in him somehow. In an extreme case, "English Muse" will arrive and Gamzee will defect to her side, just 'cuz he likes her better.
Caliborn will not become Lord English.
Or rather, this
one won't. We're not seeing the timeline where Caliborn becomes LE and sets all the other events in motion. We're observing a doomed timeline in which events turn out a bit different. And more likely than not, Gamzee's the point of divergence.
- Considering this would imply all the updates since at least a few months ago are doomed timeline shit (and that's a hell of a lot of doomed timeline shit), along with the strangeness of a Lord of Time having doomed timeline issues and the unlikelihood of Gamzee deliberately making a timeline where English would not exist, at best it's more likely that LE is the doomed Caliborn and had unseen reasons for dooming his own timeline.
Calliope was right.
Cherub co-dominance is possible, just obscenely rare and likely impossible with Caliborn/Calliope (even with Calliope arguably trying) or any other pair because they're complete opposites (Space and Time go well together, but the most passive Muse class and the most active Lord class don't) or outside influence messes things up (Jack Noir of the cherub session killing Calliope's dream self, forcing Caliborn into an abnormal dominance to become Lord English later).
- Ideal cherubs, the ones that look like Trickster Mode, ARE shared dominance, or were just able to work together or against each other enough to combine their jujus and use that to enter Trickster Mode.
Calliope's dead self's weird eyes are because the Lord English body is still alive.
While her dreamself is dead and she lost the domination battle (hence why she is in the dreambubble vortex thing in the first place), her original shared body is still alive (although not hers by any stretch of the word), so she can't get the dead eyes effect and dreambubbles are not exactly leaving the normal eyes effect to those who know they're dead, so she gets...different eyes. Callie Ohpeee the trollsona (who is probably closer to the dreamself, which is unambiguously dead, by being an idealized self) has normal eyes since the still-living Caliborn/LE never wore that form/body/whatever and isn't going to cosplay it any time soon. Since cherubs aren't meant to play Sburb by their own admission, this hasn't needed to come up elsewhere because they normally don't live on in dreambubbles when killed.
God-Tier Calliope will be the one who brings everyone who died in [S]: Game Over back to life.
Calliope will be extremely powerful in her God-Tier form, so bringing everyone back from the dead doesn't sound like much of a stretch. Perhaps English Muse's powers are "Creation" to counterbalance Lord English's "Destruction"?
Dad is going to be used as a material in a first guardian at some point.
- Look at the first guardians and how they were created so far: Doc Scratch was made partially from Lil' Cal, an object with significance to Bro and Dave. Bec has Harley's genes, and is thus linked to Jade and her Grandpa. Gcat hasn't had anything confirmed yet, but I would bet money he's got something to do with Jaspers. So, what is there a significant link to in John's life that would be sentient enough to form a first guardian? Dad. Any other links John has to someone or something who is not a player in a session are to non-sentient objects, and Dad is mysterious enough to work.
- All known First Guardians are based on non-sentient subservient things ie puppets an pets. While it isn't entirely clear, there is probably a significant reason behind that that simply hasn't been explained yet.
- Consider what we originally learned about the source of Scratch's omniscience, though. That seems to imply that "intelligent" First Guardians are, at the very least, not exactly unique.
Dad was a victim of Betty Crocker's brainwashing.
We've seen that Betty Crocker uses subliminal messages on Alpha Earth. Clearly she's more powerful there than she was on Beta Earth, but she may have attempted brainwashing there anyway. Nanna and John were unaffected, but Dad (who probably took up baking in Nanna's memory without learning the truth about The Batterwitch) fell right into it, and ended up obsessed with baking.
- At this point, it depends on what Nannasprite meant by "the witch was not human".
In this fashion, they serve as guardians of the timeline that leads to their existence, intervening to preserve the Stable Time Loops
it is based upon—not necessarily out of a sense of duty but rather out of simple self-preservation. They can't come into being if the timeline becomes Doomed.
After the point of their creation, there is nothing enforcing their good behavior, so a First Guardian's ultimate purpose is always tied to their inevitable demise. (Bec ensuring Jade's entry and then being overwritten by Jadesprite, Doc Scratch being an excellent host, etc.)
Lord English is essentially a shameless exploitation of these two conditions: a second entity bearing the First Guardian code metamorphoses from the corpse of the first, satisfying the "must die" requirement at the moment of his creation. Since this takes place at the end of the universe and Lord English is technically the same being as Doc Scratch (except not), he has no Protectorate
assigned to him and may satisfy the "must travel back in time in a Stable Time Loop
" requirement in any arbitrary fashion he pleases. The result: a being with First Guardian-level omnipotence and no timeline to preserve—absolute power with no limitations whatsoever.
(This is also the reason for Lord English's lack of omniscience—he doesn't have a set timeline to preserve. For him, the future is not an unbroken chain of cause and effect, but a blank canvas.)
GCat killed Frigglish/Jaspers to enable his own creation.
- As a First Guardian, he's responsible for encouraging his own creation. Jaspers' death enables him to be sampled for ectobiology.
- This is almost certainly at least indirectly true, as First Guardians seem to take action in order to preserve the Stable Time Loops upon which the timeline is based. Jaspers' death might not be a prequisite to getting his paradox slime, but it's still a requirement of the timeline that leads up to GCat's creation.
- Death has already been shown to not be a prerequisite. In fact, no ectobiological sample has been taken from something dead yet.
- The point was probably more that something needs to happen to force the machines to create paradox slime rather than just appearify the target. In other words, death isn't a prerequisite, but Jaspers' death may be.
Once in the Alpha Session, Alpha Dad and Alpha Rose Lalonde (Mom Lalonde) will fight the Batterwitch
Okay, remember when Jack got the ring and fought Bro in the Beta Universe? Well Her Imperious Condescension seems to be filling Jack's role of breaking the session, so it's likely inevitable that she'll fight one or more of the Guardians at some point. Fighting Dad makes sense since the two are related (via adoption), while Alpha!Rose will presumably still fight with knitting needles - weapons that resemble those used by The Handmaid/The Demoness.
Also it means she'll probably kill them. And Alpha!Dave.
- Jossesd, the Batter Witch already killed Alpha Dave and Rose (at least according to Dirk), plus Alpha Ben Stiller and "Childish Gambino".
- The only ray of light to this theory depends on whether or not Mom Lalonde is used to prototype a sprite. However, with no prototyping towers on Derse and Prospit it remains to be seen whether any prototyping will take place or not.
- And even that ray of light has been Jossed.
All First Guardians serve Lord English
(This is actually a relocated discussion from the Headscratchers page.)
"First Guardians serve English first and foremost, and the planet secondarily. Notice how Doc Scratch's "protection" and Bec or God Cat's really only boils down to keeping the players alive before the session starts and setting up events for the session to begin."
- We can't really make assumptions about the first guardians' relationship with Lord English. While it's entirely possible that Bec and/or GCat are allied to Lord English there is nothing in the text that implicitly or explicitly says that, other than the fact a single one of them is. Just because Doc Scratch is his servant doesn't mean necessarily that all first guardians are.
- There's overwhelming evidence First Guardians are designed to serve Lord English (Green Sun powers between both of them, Guardians encourage Sburb, must die in order to bring English into the universe), and virtually nothing against it. Not even Bec's sacrifice is really an example against it either, as he technically lives on in Jack, PM, and Jade, any of whom could end up manifesting Lord English. It has not been outright stated, but it is intended to be obvious, much like Betty Crocker's identity.
- Each of your 3 points of "overwhelming" evidence are irrelevant. First, the fact that the Green Sun powers all First Guardians stands as a fact on its own. There is no evidence the Green Sun empowers Lord English or is in any way linked to Lord English save that it was yet another prerequisite for Doc Scratch to exist, since he is a First Guardian. Second, FG's encouraging Sburb is not directly relevant to Lord English. It is only flawed sessions that will host Lord English. Doc Scratch says that LE's "calling card" is a glitched session in which the players were spawned in another session, hinting that there are normal sessions that do not allow LE in — yet these sessions must have First Guardians as well since all planets with intelligent life are destined to have one. In fact, it seems that DS himself is specifically a requirement for LE and not just any First Guardian, because he says, "Instances of myself have spawned in countless universes, and my objective is always the same. I have never once failed to complete this objective, and I never will." Third, according to Word Of God DS was still alive up until the point that LE burst out of him; his death was a consequence, not a prerequisite.
- Point by point: 1) Yes it is; check English's birth again, he summons his coat with an image of the Green Sun. 2) Flawed sessions are unable to complete the game; infants not being from that session are just a symptom of that. In fact part of the Pre-Scratch trolls fixing their session was to outright make a deal with Echidna and bring a First Guardian to their planet. As for the "instances of myself" line, it's not beyond logical thought that Doc, and by extension First Guardians, would naturally take different forms for different planets, while their general characteristics (white, god powers, no face, etc) remain the same. Given every session shown thus far has needed a First Guardian, it seems that they're vital to the game, and there's no evidence of sessions being successful without them 3) Essentially this one just argues semantics, the true point being that a First Guardian must die in order for Lord English to manifest.
- The only real evidence we've seen is that Doc Scratch must die in order for Lord English to manifest. Considering we've never seen another instance of Lord English coming into being, nor another instance of a First Guardian dying, there is absolutely no reason to assume that all First Guardians are capable of manifesting Lord English through death. You're basing a correlation on a single instance and generalising the circumstances of the only manifestion of Lord English we've seen. It's true that First Guardians seem necessary for the game, but that has nothing to do with Lord English. Also, if you're arguing that GCat is Lord English' ally, then it would be working alongside Betty Crocker, which does not seem to be the case.
- We've seen three First Guardians. Doc Scratch aside since clearly he works for English, Bec and GCat have helped the nascent sessions get started, and protected the players from death. Look at them as similar to Dave and Aradia's reset functions, to protect the Alpha timeline. The end result of Bec's actions was the destruction of the human universe, which is well in line with English's motives. While GCat is still largely an unknown, it's not contradictory for him to be serving Lord English and yet helping Jane survive the Condesce's murder attempts, which is what you implied. Even Doc helped keep the players alive (mostly), before their entry. And keep in mind too there's no indication there are multiple iterations of Doc Scratch! The one thing that genuinely makes him unique and alive, the genetic code all First Guardians have, is present in GCat and Bec, as well as multiple shared traits like a blank white appearance, etc. They are naturally less intelligent (not being omniscient), but they absolutely have mysterious agendas that still haven't been fully revealed or explained.
- If you look only at the end results, then by that logic every single character has served Lord English's goals so far. You can't ascribe Bec's actions to some sort of obvious motive to serve Lord English just off of that. The most you can say is that they've acted to preserve the alpha timeline. Second, there is explicit indication that there are multiple iteration of Doc Scratch by his own words, linked above. Third, [we're getting off topic from the original discussion this was pulled from].
- Fair enough; but just as a final note as I'm genuinely a little frustrated by your cyclical logic, continuing to argue points I thought I already demonstrated evidence against. Doc's comments never were shown to apply specifically to 1:1 copies of himself, and there's plenty of overlap with Doc and the other First Guardians, far more similarities in fact than differences, and at any rate, trusting the words of Doc at face value is a little too trusting as well, given the Green Sun plot. You're welcome to believe what you like, but this is one of those ideas that to me at least seems to be one of the Untwists that Homestuck occasionally has. Much like the dreambubble afterlife discussion above, there's plenty of evidence for both sides and neither side has concretely been proven to be conclusively correct.
- I've tried my best to offer counter arguments, but you haven't listened. That's why I keep going over them. Your "overwhelming evidence" boils down to a few shaky arguments.
1) They share the same power source and FG genetic code, and this should imply the same motives, ignoring any other contributing factors to their creation (e.g. Lil' Cal) or the behavior of other intelligent characters that draw from the same power source (e.g. Jade).
2) Acting to preserve the Alpha timeline when the Alpha timeline results in Lord English's summoning inherently means that this was your primary goal all along. We should assume there is no other valid reason to wish to protect the kids or preserve the session beyond bringing Lord English eventually into the universe it creates.
3) Doc Scratch is the model we should use for all guardians since he's the only one who explains his motives. Since his death was necessary to summon Lord English, the death of a First Guardian (which he is) is necessary, thus the death of any First Guardian will suffice. Any references to other iterations of himself must necessarily refer to any other First Guardian and not to a subset of First Guardians.
4) But, if something Doc Scratch says might contradict this theory, remember that he is a scoundrel and take his words with a grain of salt, even though he's never outright lied, and there's little reason to do so to the audience. (e.g. Dismiss outright what he said about Lord English's calling card in the A1 session and any implications it has about other sessions.)
- Rebumped chat back for coherency. Point by point.
1) While Cal himself is a "jUjU", there is no indication that English cannot play out a similar role with another FG. Scratch was a puppet used as a weapon, so GCat and Bec might just be animals obeying their masters. Just because the motif exists with Scratch and English doesn't mean that's what must always exist.
2) While this argument is valid for Bec, GCat has no strong emotional connection demonstrated to any of the Kids. Moreover, Bec and GCat aren't sentient, so they can't really have motives! Animals can however obey orders, and even Bec's prototyping of himself to save Jade was in and of itself preserving the Alpha Timeline, meaning these things aren't mutually exclusive.
3) This depends on the assumption that Lord English varies his appearance based on Universes, and there is not simply one Lord English. Given that Andrew referred to English being the Troll's conception of death and an agent of their mythology, this assumption does carry some weight, as Humanity's conception of death is markedly different from the Troll's, and that could presumably extend to others. Look at for instance Anubis, a god of the dead whom a LE with Bec's ears would heavily resemble.
4) I never meant to undergo Confirmation Bias, though you apparently think I did. I merely am cautious at taking Doc's words at face value, especially words mentioned all of once in a sequence that was heavily symbolic (the calling card). Moreover part of our diagreement is about Doc's reference to his "counterparts" which you take to mean "Doc Scratch" and I take to mean "First Guardian". Neither of these are incorrect, and from the evidence in front of us at this time, neither can be proven or disproven.
Closing: My argument boils down to this. We know Doc Scratch is connected with LE, and that in other sessions, First Guardians are created by agents of Derse, which is very loosely allied with Lord English (Feferi's Lusus, Snowman, Destruction etc). First Guardians prepare a planet for Sburb, And Then What?. Once a session has entered, a First Guardian's purpose is complete. We have no idea what happens after that stage, though in Doc's case he became Lord English. It's not that much of a stretch to believe that is the natural fate of any First Guardian, not necessarily that it must be an alternate of Doc Scratch. Moreover, in every case of FG that we have seen thus far, they are based on a tool or an animal, something that naturally can be subservient to a master.
First Guardians gain their powers from Calliope (and possibly owe their allegiance to her).
- All First Guardian powers we've seen so far have been Space-like in nature. Teleportation is their go-to superpower.
- Calliope is the Muse of Space, and her class is the most powerful passive class in the game. A logical ability for her class to have as a Muse (i.e. one who inspires others) would be to empower others with her Aspect.
- The Green Sun is the same color as her blood. Caliborn's entry was accompanied by a symbolic red supergiant that matched his colors, which could very well have been an allusion to her ties to the Green Sun.
- Doc Scratch being subverted to work for Caliborn makes sense if all First Guardian have some allegiance to Calliope since Caliborn is in a very real sense just another aspect of the same person.
In the Alpha universe, Jane's (and likely but not necessarily Jade's) surname is Crocker, but the Batterwitch has her hooks deeper into things over there than she ever did in the Beta universe. It's quite possible that Nanna was originally given her adoptive father's name,and her active rebellion and love of japery may have led her to keep (or, later in life, re-acquire) her late adoptive father's surname.
On a vaguely related note from the vantage point of another universe, Jane Twain would have been a horrible name to have the option of choosing over Jane Crocker
- It would have to be Sassacre, as that seems to genuinely be his name, rather than Sam Clemens.
Let's look back on what we know about the first guardians, shall we?
All of this would imply that first guardians are not
benevolent figures, although they might not necessarily be "evil" per say. It could be that they're more "Always Chaotic Neutral
" rather than "Evil" and Doc Scratch just happens to be the Token Evil Teammate
and a darker shade of grey.
This leaves the question of Bec; Is he the exception
? There are two possible answers:
- 1. Yes, he is. Since he was created with Halley's DNA he was much more mellow than the good doctor, who was created with Lil' Cal. Evidence against this is the fact that it's implied (READ: implied) that GCat was made with Jaspers' DNA and does not (as far as we know) resemble him in personality.
- 2. No, Bec is not an exception. He was evil/malevolent before meeting Grandpa Harley and Jade. Evidence against this is the fact that Bec's personality, from what we've seen, is that of a normal dog. This could be the result of his possible Heel-Face Turn, though.
She currently has Jade under her control, which means GCAT isn't really needed at this point. HIC will probably either make Jade kill him or mind control him into killing himself.
The First Guardians somehow have god tier titles with master classes.
Becquerel is the Lord of Space. Doc Scratch is the Lord of Light. I don't know about G-Cat. Also Lord English is perhaps unknowingly a First Guardian; what separates him from the rest and makes him destined to be a really terrible powerful demon who fucks up everything is that he, unlike the other First Guardians, is created in a universe that is already deceased; while Becquerel is the First Guardian of pre-scratch Earth, and G-Cat the First Guardian of post
-scratch Earth, Lord English, having grown up during the end of times, is the First Guardian of post-apocalypse
Earth, the Earth that lies in a universe that officially does not exist; in other words, Lord English is the First Guardian of nowhere.
I am now positing that paradox space, like the sessions it holds within, may exist in multiple iterations. During the iteration we are witnessing, it so happens that the First Guardian of nowhere is the Lord of Time. Perhaps in other iterations, this First Guardian has been the Lord of something else, and that other thing has consequently been the primary and most important aspect that has largely governed the evolution of that iteration of paradox space and the story it had to tell.
White Queen/Windswept Questant arranged for White King/Writ Keeper to be placed in the pod
This would be the only reason she knew there was a fifth exile.
PM will be killed by Bec Noir
Because dogs hate mailmen. Yeah, that's the best I've got
- She lives to escape to the future wasteland and will apparently not go into the past. Also how could Bec hate mailmen if, living on a remote island, he never saw them. Mail was dropped from a plane if you remember.
- Why would you take this seriously?
- Because I've heard ideas confessed in total seriousness along these lines, and so out of context I couldn't be sure if it was a joke or serious.
- So Bec hates... airplanes? Oh my god Bec Noir is going to kill Nick Cage in Con Air, thus incurring Vriska's wrath and forcing her heroic sacrifice.
- Actually.... Bec Noir apparently loathes PM. When he saw her on a terminal he got incredibly angry. So maybe this joke theory...could be true?
- On the contrary, he has a flush crush on her. If loyalty can save Jade, I'm guessing a crush can save PM.
- Hilariously, this does not happen at all. In fact Bec Noir kills every Exile but PM, and PM could very well be the one to kill Bec Noir.
- At this point it's a bit of a wash if they'll even fight, though PM is in hot pursuit of Jack.
- Although they could end up joining forces to fight Lord English perhaps, after seeing what he did to the Dream Bubble?
PM and Bec Noir's further Chess Motifs
- If Jack was a bishop, it would make sense PM was too (as of Cascade). The previous WMG on teh subject hypothesized that Jack was similar to a Bishop. With the White Sceptre, Jack would be the white-tiled black bishop, and with the regislaying sword, PM would be the black-tiled white bishop. If we were to take this motif a step further we may deduce that PM will not be the one to kill Jack, as said two bishops cannot interact.
- PM didn't originally have the sword though; she received it from Jack. In fact you might say they're both white tiled bishops, as they are very similar in their abilities, but opposites in every other imaginable way.
- Actually PM is a pawn. She went all the way to Derse, came back, and eventually got promoted to Queen.
- Jack too got promoted to Queen (in a fashion) so comparing them is still valid.
WV will use the Black Ring after Jack Noir's demise
- Because all the hints about him using the White Ring were a double Bait and Switch.
WV will end up with the second white ring from the Alpha Session.
Because things are bound to end with a 2v2 showdown: PM and WV versus Jack Noir and the Batterwitch.
- Or Jack Noir and Alpha Jack Noir, if he manages to get his hands on the second black ring.
- Given that the Empress has little need for it, it's entirely possible.
- It doesn't seem like the Alpha kids are prototyping anything though, thanks to G Cat.
- DD has shown it does very little.
WV is either a former player or future player.
After all, only players with dead dreamselves have been able to enter dreambubbles. It's entirely possible that WV and some others enter from within the Medium itself and go on to have another session, and WV's dreamself is merely already dead. Or alternatively, he's an outcast from the session after the Alpha Session, having traversed back along the chain via the same method Jack did.
- That rule only applies to when you access a Dream Bubble via dreaming. WV and the rest of the group entered the Dream Bubble physically.
- Voila! This entire chain of dreams took place in a very abstract dreambubble; probably because as a Carapace with a more childlike intellect, WV doesn't exactly have crisp memories. Besides if that's the case, why haven't Jack or PM appeared in a dreambubble yet, if only to slice up some dead Nepetas and fly back out. Also based on that sequence and the Green Sun and shape of his nightcap, he might tentatively be called an Heir of Light, as his life thusfar has been rather extraordinarily lucky.
- 1) That sequence doesn't indicate anything about WV's nature, as it's a dream Vriska is having, and it's prophetic, ala her Light powers. It might not actually be a Dream Bubble, but an outright Dream. Indeed, it doesn't follow the rules of any other Dream Bubble, ever. 2) Jack and PM MAY have gone into Dream Bubbles; we haven't been following them very closely ever since Cascade. And even if they haven't, so what? You can't kill the already dead, and Jack's kinda distracted by his attempt to Get Some. <3
- When was it ever shown Vriska's dreams are prophetic? In fact her direct alternate, Aranea, is God Tiered and a hero of Light as well, and her dreams are in dreambubbles. One must also wonder how it could be prophetic when said prophecy turned out to be innaccurate; it really seems much more like a nightmarish memory of the past. It actually does follow logic of dreambubbles, merely in a much more abstract manner. Dreambubbles have been shown to shift between settings drastically and don't have hard and fast rules (just look at Jade's first Dreambubble for instance), and again there's no indication Vriska did anything special at all to contact WV. And on the matter of Jack and PM, until it has been seen directly on panel, there's no indication WV isn't actually unique.
- Vriska's dreams are potentially prophetic because she had a dream about things that have yet to occur. The dream is symbolic, uses abstract imagery and meanings, and may or may not have been accurate, but that's standard for Dreaming of Things to Come. Also, what the heck are you talking about? Aranea is DEAD. We have no idea what she might've dreamed about as a God Tier. At all. Dreambubbles do have 'rules' in that they always replicate a memory of the past to the smallest details until the dreamer starts 'lucid dreaming' and can then walk into other people's memories. None of that applies to the vision you're talking about whatsoever. Especially since the dream contains things that have yet to occur for both of them, such as Jack taking the green rocks out of WV's stomach and using the Red Miles.
\\It's not a Dream Bubble. You've lost that point, try something else.
- Your insistence that it isn't a dreambubble is baffling. There's no evidence that Vriska has prophetic dreams because we know what a Thief of Light does, and none of that would have any chance to be prophetic. If anyone, Rose would be a likely candidate, but even she dreams in dreambubbles. At any rate, the only way anyone has been shown to be able to share a dream like Vriska and WV did is via dreambubbles. Dreambubbles can be◊ bizzare◊, so arguing that Vriska and WV's dream isn't a dreambubble because it's bizarre and breaks the rules we've been shown thus far is nonsensical . Also, this event did occur relatively early in dreambubble's introduction, so Hussie might not have established the internal rules yet, much like how Jade's first dreambubble was an actual dream. It certainly does fit some of the rules, like blending of settings and past events together, though again it is much more abstract than other dreambubbles.
- 1) We really don't know how everything works regarding the Classes and Aspects; entire entries of them are entirely left undefined as far as what they can do, but Light IS tied into luck, fortune, and possible futures, while the Dream Bubbles have NEVER had precognitive scenarios, ever, and are always a blending of settings, memories, and events from the past. None of your links really support your case except possible [S] Jade: Wake Up, but that's still not really conclusive because that was the time Jade met the Horrorterrors, which according to Hussie's Formspring, and Feferi's own comments, took place BEFORE the creation of the Dream Bubbles. Jade's first true Dream Bubble was probably the time she met Feferi as a ghost.
- Dave outright sees her in a dreambubble, and Feferi is there. It may be before Feferi's organization of the dreambubble meetings, but that's still a dreambubble; in fact that distinction might be the difference. Feferi's chain of dreambubbles might well be following different rules than ordinary dreambubbles. With that aside, Light has never been tied to possible futures in any context. I have no idea where you are pulling that from, but Light has been shown to be luck/probablity with a smattering of eye powers; Vriska as the Thief of Light is extraordinarily lucky and can distort her personal luck or that of her enemies, while Rose as the Seer of Light is able to be vaguely omniscient by understanding probabilities of certain outcomes. That's not prophetic, though Rose's abilities certainly can resemble prophecy, that is a quirk of any Seer, as Terezi also demonstrates. Moreover the other links show that there can be blending of past settings (Skaia, Prospit falling) which is very present in WV's dream. Again, it is much more abstract and different from those that we have seen, but there is no other context presented in comic where two characters can speak to each other in a dream other than a dreambubble. At any rate, nothing in WV's dream was actually prophetic in any way; it was based on vague fears of him becoming similar to Jack Noir after WQ tasked him to use the ring mixed with his memories of the Battlefield and his roleplaying as the Mayor of Can Town. While you have previously mentioned that there's a vague foreshadowing that WV would get the uranium ripped out of his stomach, nothing in that dream sequence suggests that at all, at least without invoking YMMV on subtle gestures.
- Argument rendered irrelevant via oversight: Roxy's sleepwalk showed WV can dream in dreambubbles conclusively. Rose waking up at the end indicates they did not directly enter a dreambubble (and that is also discussed by Dave and Rose later), but WV's memories of Earth as a wasteland are still present. The rest of the WMG is up in the air, though for a character associated with a firefly following him around, Light does seem to be rather connected.
- We don't actually see WV in the Dream Bubble, though, so we can't conclusively say that the scenery is from WV's memories, specifically. Especially when we consider that Terezi might be able to read minds and/or "see thoughts".
- Terezi hasn't ever shown the ability to read minds though, and her abilities have been shown to be prophecy instead of mind reading. The Dirk fragment really can't be counted, as he himself states his existence is very odd, and it seems to be more tied to his abilities as a hero of heart. Moreover the memories are specifically from WV's experiences, and can't be attributed to PM for example.
- In any case, we have now seen Lord English, and more importantly, Jack Noir and PM enter dreambubbles.
- ...Which has no relevance on the WMG as, as is specifically mentioned, it's about the entering of a dreambubble via dream rather than physically entering one.
Jack Noir wasn't the mutation Karkat created - WV was.
Think about it: Jack Noir didn't actually act all that unusual given his circumstances. He's shown to be pragmatic and stab-happy in every
session and to particularly dislike the Black Queen; he was handed a super-weapon (two, technically) and used it exactly the way one would expect. WV, on the other hand, is unusual for a Carapacian- he organized a rebellion against his own King, which likely is a unique facet of his session. While it ultimately failed, he also ended up as John's Exile (guiding his actions in the early session and ultimately awakening him as an Heir), was the one to free Serenity/Calliope, and is probably the main motivator for PM's rampage. He'll remain enough of a pivotal character in the future that Rose foresaw his arrival in the "path of greatest fortune" and even delayed the Trolls' departure to collect him. Karkat's mutation wasn't "cancerous", it was just overshadowed by Paradox Space screwing the session to ensure the Scratch.
PM and Bec Noir
After the events of Caliborn: Enter, they will strike a temporary alliance (or at least a ceasefire) to fight Lord English instead.
- Well, they DID just witness the destruction of a Dream Bubble by his hand...
Jack and PM will face Lord English
Jack, with his new found feelings for PM, will pull a heroic sacrifice
and save her life.
Midnight Crew and Counterparts
Jack's death will have something to do with a clock.
There is a sentence in the comic that has to do with this while Aradia talks about the genetic code "t1ck t0ck"- the "tyrant less an arm and an eye." Snowman stabbed Jack's eye out and ripped off his arm.
AA: the persisting sounds said to accompany the ultimate demise of the tyrant less an arm and an eye
- This could just as easily be referring to Vriska. Or Marquise Spinneret Mindfang. Or Captain Hook. (Was he missing an eye?) Villainous characters in Homestuck losing an arm and an eye is practically a Running Gag by this point.
- It's definitely a reference to the troll version of Captain Hook; Pupa Pan apparently is more of a myth than a children's story on Alternia, and has something to do with (may be based on?) Marquise Spinneret Mindfang and the Summoner. Hook is a pirate captain, so an eyepatch wouldn't be out of place, and everyone knows the story of his hand and the clock-bearing crocodile that keeps coming back for (ahem) seconds. Given that Call Backs are a freqently used narrative device in Homestuck to the point of being (if Doc Scratch is to be believed) a significant plot point, it could also be a reference to any number of other characters, including but not limited to Jack.
- No, no, no. You're missing something. The two quirks used there aren't Aradia's and Tavros's, but Aradia's and RUFIOH's. I'd guess that the villain was Lord Endlish from that, since both Aradia and Rufioh are in the dream bubbles. Especially since Meenah might be getting her army after all...
Jack's active role in the story is nearing it's end.
At this moment, he's pretty much on his own. The good guys have four God Tiers including one who also has Jack's omnipotence, and a fully prototyped PM, who is more or less his equal in terms of power. It doesn't matter how we look at it, Jack is WAY outclassed.
- A few scenarios seem likely
- A) A big beatdown involving all the heroes or just PM kicking his ass for all that he's done, ala Make Her Pay pr
- B) Jack ends up working for English in some fashion. English is identified as the Lord of the Angels and Jack definitely has an angelic vibe. Jack could also become English's host for his attempt to manifest in the Human Universe.
- C) He will eventually see the threat that Lord English poses and will join the fight against English. Jack will die in the final battle helping to ensure Lord English's destruction.
- Given Jack Noir's own nature however, this one does seem unlikely.
- D) In the middle of the Jack vs. PM showdown, Lord English arrives and curbstomps them both, establishing himself as the new Big Bad. It wouldn't be the first time a showdown was interrupted by the interference of a third party.
- Well it wouldn't be English's establishing moment anymore as of [S] Caliborn: Enter. Still could happen, though know somewhat less likely.
- Though [S] Caliborn: Enter itself effectively served the same purpose, didn't it?
One can look over the Midnight Crew and reasonably presume that they're an Evil Counterpart
to Team Sleuth
, with Space Slick as Problem Sleuth's, Clubs Deuce as Ace Dick's, and Diamonds Droog as Pickle Inspector's. This leaves Hearts Boxcars as the odd man out, and so I submit that he is, in fact, Mobster Kingpin's Evil Counterpart
. Though the play as much as counterparts as the do opposites...
- MK's head is way bigger than his body, while HB's body is way bigger than his head, yet both are undeniably the largest members of their respective groups.
- HB gets ordered around by SS and DD; MK takes orders from nobody, and is Problem Sleuth's main antagonist.
- I thought he was Fiesta Ace Dick's counterpart.
- Looks more like the Hired Muscle to me.
Slick wasn't sent to an alternate timeline, he was just shunted to the past.
The mansion was built around the vault, rather than the vault being built in the mansion. When he opened it, it kicked him back to the earlier days of post-troll society, where he did all his exile things. Meanwhile, past Slick is setting events in motion to create a new civilization on the ruins.
- Doc is alive again, when he is dead during the intermission, so that would make sense. However it's not so much past as alternate timeline. Basically Slick's adventures during the intermission were part of an alternate timeline that got folded into the alpha timeline at the end. Otherwise he'd keep going through the cycle over and over.
- The first theory is seemingly confirmed; we've seen the deaths of Quarters and Matchsticks.
- Seems to be both an alternate timeline and the past.
Cyborg Slick is going to kill Alpha Jack Noir
It just seems appropriate. It'll naturally be framed as an internal conflict playing out externally, or something of that nature.
Post-Scratch Draconian Dignitary will become more powerful than even Bec Noir
DD has taken a much more involved role so far in the B2 universe session than in the B1 session, comparable to Jack's role in the B1 session. It was already teased and then psyched out once; it only seems natural coming from Hussie that he'll do a double psyche-out reach-around and suddenly become magnificently powerful. In order keep up with the mounting number of powerful threats being introduced he'd have to become even more powerful than Bec Noir. The only "evidence" of this is Hussie's writing style and a gut feeling that DD is going to be very important, but doing a double fake out would be very much up Hussie's ally.
- Hussie is already building Lord English as the bigger threat than Bec Noir; there's not much space for DD to fit in.
Diamonds Droog wanted to make Aradia-bot into a Tyke Bomb
If that was
genuine praise that he gave her, take note of when
it actually happens; after she just brutally beat someone to death
he says "Atta girl". It's also explicitly stated that he enjoyed the "Payback Scenarios". Given the type of person Droog is
, it would not surprise me if it turned out that he had some kind of plot for her to be used as some sort of weapon, possibly against the Felt.
In DD: Ascend
and DD: Ascend More Casually
, The Condesce (and Meenah, briefly, but she's essentially the same thing) appears almost every time we hear the lyrics "Bring your wife and trouble it will never trouble you/Make her a member of the Midnight Crew". The keyword here is WIFE. The only exceptions include when Ms. Paint appears (being ship teased with Andrew and Slick) and when Andrew proposes to Vriska. Perhaps DD is caliginous for HIC, mirroring the fact that Jack was caliginous for the Black Queen.
- Bonus points: DD's Porn Stash is called Grey Ladies and his favorite candy is Swedish Fish.
Jack Noir / Bec Noir attacked the trolls' universe in order to avenge Jade.
Up until Jade's 'death' shortly before Cascade, Bec Noir was mostly acting without direction — he was killing people at random because he found it amusing, not with any sort of direction to it. After Jade dies, he places her on her Quest Bed (possibly without fully knowing what that means), then makes an immediate beeline for the teleporter to the Troll's universe, only killing people who get in his way. When he's there, he prevents the Trolls from claiming godhood, then systematically blows up every one of their worlds and murders each of their dream selves with a directed anger very much unlike anything we saw before; then he proceeds to hunt them relentlessly and specifically rather than engaging his previous random murderous hijinx. With his near-omniscience, he would likely know that the Trolls were responsible for making Jade's world terminal, for his creation and empowerment, and therefore ultimately for Jade's death; this would explain why he focuses so monomanically on wrecking up their shit after that point. (At least up until he meets the ascended PM, who occupies his attention after that.)
- Another bit of supporting evidence for this: Aradia describes Jack, when he enters the Troll's session, as "0mnip0tent and enraged". Before he left the kid's session, he seemed vicious and destructive, but not enraged; this implies that he flew into a rage after the events of Cascade. He was also present when Karkat confessed to giving Jade's universe cancer, so it's possible his rage at the trolls was actually a Rage Against the Heavens at them for screwing up Jade's universe (and, by extension, the session he lived in.)
The Felt are going to make a reappearance.
They were not destroyed with the troll's universe because they were already dead, but still existing in a dream bubble.
- Except for maybe Clover, knowing his luck.
- Confirmed. Spades Slick revives them using Die's doll.
The Felt, save for Snowman, Doc Scratch and Lord English are all Frogs.
Consider the following:
- The sole remnant of the Derse Empire (namely, the Midnight Crew) consider them enemies. The fact that they are rival gangs aside, we learn later on that Dersites despise frogs.
- Like frogs, they are all green, lack noses, have broad mouths (save for Clover) and big bulgy eyes similar to the statues of Billious Slick we've seen.
- Seemingly Jossed, sorta; "frog men" is a name Caliborn comes up for them, but only one.
We know that killing Snowman will destroy the universe
, we know that a ~ATH program
will summon Lord English
after the trolls' universe dies, we know that Lord English cannot enter the trolls' universe until Doc Scratch is killed
, we know that destroying the Green Sun isn't the only way to kill Doc Scratch
, and the June 19th update revealed that Doc Scratch wants Jack Noir to kill Snowman
. Furthermore, Doc Scratch and Snowman are the only members of the Felt with green auras
, both of them have teleportation powers and this sequence
implies that Snowman, like Doc Scratch and Terezi, can see into alternate futures.
- On the other hand; Snowman's powers are implied to have come directly from a portion of Doc's own abilities. Thus it would only make since that her much more limited powers would be similar to his. But if killing her would in effect kill Scratch, Doc would've already done so, instead of directing Rose on her mission.
Lord English will play a part in the final battle.
Doc Scratch's entire angle in the story is to summon Lord English and die
, and the other half of the story seems to gear towards the kids dealing with Bec Noir. What's to say that these two elements won't intersect with each other in the climax?
- While it seems certain that English is in someway ultimately a villain that will be fought, it remains to be seen if he's a Giant Space Flea from Nowhere or simply The Bigger Bad. Noir is not anywhere near as powerful as English though. Think of it this way, Noir is perhaps a Physical God, but English is quite literally a god, being the incarnation of destruction of universes.
- Lord English has finally made a physical appearance, so at least there's something to fight now.
Ȩͥ̈́̉̔̃Lord eͮ̌̔nglish is
eͮ̌̔ͪ҉̣̠̰̳Z͉̝̰̣̩̞̭͌̆́̅̓̑̒͜h̸̦̰ͥͧ̾̃͘E̿ ̸̀̓̑ͥ̐E̿ ̸̀̓̑ͥ̐E̿ ̸̀̓̑ͥ̐E̿ ̸̀̓̑Z͉̝̰̣
Lord English is a snake to the univeres' frogs.
That or another frog-eater. This is also why the dark gods oppose the creation of new universes, because they might feed Lord English.
Lord English will be killed with Die's voodoo doll.
It's not a [[Foreshadowing coincidence]] that the first hint of English's supposed immortality was mentioned when Spades Slick grapped that doll
Lord English will be killed by massively fraying spacetime.
Messing with time in ways that cause paradoxes damages his Cairo Overcoat, which is how he travels through time. If the Overcoat is destroyed, he becomes sealed into the end of the universe, and never was able to leave it, defeating him.
The Felt are the remainder of the players that created universe A1.
Pretty self explanatory.
- Doesn't make any sense though.
Lord English was the one who gave The Condesce an offer she couldn't refuse.
So the Condesce fought the Handmaid/Demoness and won. However, since her opponent was of Rust Blood she basically completely disregarded it. Thus, Lord English personally appeared (Or was already there) and gave her the same offer. They fought. The Condesce lost. Severely.
And so Lord English gave her a final offer. Serve underneath him and be granted death at the end of her service,
or deny the offer and suffer a Fate Worse Than Death
. Seeing as she's basically scared shitless
of Lord English by this point, she took the offer willingly.
Lord English is the reader.
Think about it. We're already here. Furthermore, on this page
we are said to have "vision omniscient." Not even Doc Scratch has that. He is even said to have the power of time travel, which we seem to be able to do all the time.
- Unlikely. An interesting idea, but next to impossible to implement without being incredibly confusing.
- I think it is quite possible: when Jade turned off the Fourth Wall the panel went black to us the reader, we can jump back and forth throughout the story like Time Travel, the readers do influence the story a bit setting up means for our summoning, and since we are reading it we are indeed already here.
- Also makes sense in that his name inspires ultimate terror - because it's yours.
- It is rare for a jossed theory to come back, but, since Calliope/uu represents the reader, and the probability of one of them becoming Lord English is pretty high, this theory just did the lifey thing and came back.
The members of the Felt are Cherubs.
They're green, and the last update says that the egg timer and the oven that Eggs and Biscuits use are jujus.
- Seems plausible. This would also explain why they are masculine yet never display any gender characteristics, and we already know that Caliborn has red blood. Biggest problem is that they have pupilless green eyes, unlike the overly creepy of Caliborn/Calliope (also green teeth compared to white teeth). Also not all of them have jujus; Die, Quarters, Eggs, Biscuits, and Crowbar are the only ones to have them. Possibly failed clones of Cherubs? Or perhaps fragments of Caliborn himself. Cherubs probably have some variation though; after all Lord English's eyes are pretty darn weird.
- Lord English has green teeth. The only difference is their eyes.
- Jossed. The game gave them to him.
Lord English will be defeated by causing Calliope to wake up inside their shared body
Tragically, the message will be mixed, and Calliope will be killed by the auxiliary plans (ie, Ghost Army and the weapon Vriska is searching for), or undergo a Heroic Sacrifice
Lord English's body will be hijacked by Calliope
As an alternative to the above, Lord English will become Lord Calliope. In a fit of Laser-Guided Karma
, the dreamself of Caliborn will appear within a dreambubble moments before Lord English destroys it. Calliope goes on to live Happily Ever After
with the rest of the cast.
The Felt were bred through ectobiology
More specifically, they're the combined genes of carapacians (or possibly doc scratch) and cherubs.
Snowman will be revived
She's the only Felt member who isn't brought back by Spades Slick in Act 6 and it's explicitly shown that it's within Slick's power to revive her (all he has to do is pull her pin out of Die's doll). Perhaps during the finale Slick will be forced to restore her like he did them. Not to mention it's possible this would restore the Troll's universe with it since it's existence depends on Snowman being alive...
Squiddles are more than just a "subconscious reimagining" of the horrorterrors.
By which I mean, the horrorterrors, in principle, are just like the squiddles; they really are
adorable, fun-loving little squids. They really are sweet, innocent, precious, and vulnerable creatures. Humans are not inclined to think of them that way because of their terrifying physical incomprehensibility, the harsh tones of their language, their tendency to spread insanity, doom, and babbling incoherence in their wake, their strange opposition to the prospect of new universes being created, and generally the vastness of their innate obscenity in every regard; however, these are things they cannot control, and do not reflect their naturally sweet and bubbly dispositions. They are probably ashamed of their inability to present themselves in a less basally maddening manner, and would probably normally keep their distance from other life forms so as to preserve those life forms' sanity, but they are reaching out without considering the potential consequences because they are scared. And they have reason to be scared: Lord English, or "Skipper Plumbthroat" as they would know him, is out to get them, and they sit stranded and helpless throughout the depths of the Furthest Ring. Maybe this is why they also oppose the creation of new universes: ordinarily they'd be okay with it and even happy for the future inhabitants of the universes, but now that they've seen some serious stuff go down, they realize that more universes means more incarnations of Skipper Plumbthroat, which means more lost friends, more poor little innocent Squiddles shedding their precious non-Euclidean Squiddle blood, more tangle buddy bonds shattered.
Skaia is the embodiment of all life in the universe(s), and the game is a means of preserving itself.
The game is set up to serve this function, win or lose; the only difference is how much the player's native planet is sacrificed. However, breaking
the game has put the existence of life in danger.
- The source of all creation and the ultimate power trying to create new universes and thus life, yes.
- Source of Bilious Slick, or Bilious Slick is the source of Skaia? Given the history of paradoxical generation in this story, the answer is probably "Yes"
FedoraFreak is actually...
- Bear Grylls from Man vs. Wild. Think about it, less than a day after the world has ended and He's already drinking his own urine and who else on Earth is capable of adequately surviving the apocalypse on short notice.
- According to a brief segment with Nanna, he probably even survived the massive green explosion from Jade's meteor.
- Actually it's pretty clear he is in the medium and he could have entered before the meteor.
- Also he has been living off his own piss for a while now simply because he could not find water, it was assumed that he was still on Earth as it was ruined but it actually makes more sense if he was on a dry planet in the medium the whole time.
Various guesses about fedoraFreak's importance in the story.
- He will kill Lord English.
- The only way to deal any damage to him is by glitches in the game, fedora is somehow in the game dispite the fact that he is not a paradox clone. His entire presence is a glitch.
- And, since there is no evidence of anyone else in the same medium as him, it's likely he is in a Dead Session, much like Caliborn.
- The tumor was surrounded by the kids four symbols (even Dave's scratched gear) meaning the symbol that belongs to fedora may in fact be a giant ying yang bomb. A bomb that is also a game glitch.
- fedora's title is the Gentleman of Glitches and he will soon obtain the godhood of glitches.
- fedora's handle on pesterchum is UU.
- Keeps the DNA/RNA sequencing scheme going also it reveals Hussie's ultimate trolling attempt on the fanbase.
- As an act of friendship with the kids he will share a bottle of apple juice with them.
- He is Problem Sleuth.
- Since he likely wears a hat and pretty much all characters that wear hat's in MSPA gennerally keep some foodstuff under their hats one could probably expcect somesort of game breaking candy under the fedora.
- fedora is J's grandfather.
- This one now appears highly unlikely, if not Jossed.
- fedorafreak is the offspring of Mobius Trip and Hadron Kaleido
- fedora is the thirteenth troll.
- fedoraFreak moved Earth outside of the dying Bilious Slick and into the Cherub universe. We know it got there somehow, and it probably takes a God-Tiered Hero of Space to do it. Are there any other God-Tiers unaccounted for?
fedorafreak's color? between the trolls, the kids and their respective sprites hussie has covered all the visible light spectrum so what color will fedorafreak be. Will he remain gray and just match Karkat's color?
- Orange, Pumpkin Orange (fits between Tavros and Sollux)
- simple fedorafreak is Karkat
Fedorafreak is the Sufferer. Who somehow survived and made it to the human universe.
- Since he was already technically a player he was allowed to re-enter the game.
fedorafreak is Dad Egbert from the second kid's session.
- Because we have four kids soon to be ancestors and four ancestors soon to be kids but why would a character just suddenly stop existing from one session to the next.
fedorafreak is the hero of void.
- Equius's attribute prevented any spying attempts on Vriska. Similarly Rose suddenly can not be viewed by anyone around the same time FF starts making posts about how he cannot find water and has resorted to drinking his on urine.
- But that is impossible, FF is already the Gent of Piss.
Lil' Cal is the Most Important Character in Homestuck
As revealed in [S] Cascade
, Lil' Cal was sitting in Gamzee's lap off-camera in the scene where AH told us, "The most important character in Homestuck fondly regards the miracle of a new beginning." Almost everyone assumed this meant Gamzee, though not everyone knew whether he was serious or not, but the Gamzee ruse was a distaction. Lil' Cal was created by Gamzee to haunt Dave's nightmares and, though a series of cross-universe time loops, became Bro's unsettling minion, a friend to Gamzee and Bec Noir, the ectobiological grandfather of Doc Scratch, and possibly an influence on Lord English's form once he manifested (or vice versa). There's good reason to believe that Lil' Cal has always been alive since he moves and laughs on his own on Derse, and Gamzee says that he's been teaching him the "truth" about the "messiahs" that the Subjugglators worship — the one who releases the Vast Honk, Lord English.
Lil' Cal may be far more tied into Lord English than originally believed. Whether created unconsciously as an echo of him by the heir of the Subjugglators or not, he has certainly been instrumental in his arrival. For all we know, he may be
an aspect/herald of him. Possibly even the reason why Doc Scratch is so much more active in the service of Lord English than Bec ever was.
- A few things, one, since through the meteors, dream cal became real cal, if dream cal was sentient, and could move, then yes, real cal can, since they are the same cal...but just because D C Scratch was Lord English's minion, doesn't mean ALL first guardians are...(first guardians actually exist to guard planets with life)...but apparently D C Scratch said he had gone through this many times, which means he might be the ONLY first guardian working for LE...for that matter...
- This theory has only become more viable as time passes in the story. Lil' Cal's importance is stressed by the prior Lord English himself (well, at least in body, I'm not going to get into the Calliope is LE not Caliborn debate). He refers to Lil' Cal as a Juju, which has been established as an object or entity of great importance tied to Cherubs. It is heavily implied that Lil' Cal is somehow one of UU or uu's Juju's, probably though more trans-universe time shenanigan bullshit. One of the things uu stresses in his explanation of Juju's is that juju's cannot be copied in any way, and that only one can exist, all other instances being an illusion. It is the belief of this troper that the illusion in this case is one of temporal hijinks, with all the Lil' Cal's in the story being the same one, simply shunted around time and space much like Lil' Taylor the robot bunny was. Lil Cal also clearly looks very similar to the Cherubs. With all these hints suggesting that Lil' Cal is intensely connected to the plot in some way, it's looking very likely that Lil' Cal was actually who Hussie was referring to as "the most important character in Homsestuck".
Alternatively, the reader is the Most Important Character in Homestuck
This is what Hussie meant by "the most important character in Homestuck fondly regards the miracle of a new beginning." Ties in nicely with the 'Lord English is Us' theories and/or Calliope and Caliborn representing the fanbase.
The Bunny (Liv Tyler, Li'l Seb, whatever you want to call it) is a juju
Like Lil Cal it is able to move through time and between universes; it can be and has been used as a weapon; there is only one version of it despite its multiple appearances; it is apparently at least semi-sentient. Its motivations are mysterious and its origins obscure. If Lil Cal is Calliope's juju (as suggested above) then perhaps the Bunny is Caliborn's?
Calmasis is what Lil Cal sees himself as.
To the outside world, he's just an ordinarily creepy puppet. But inside his mind he's a scheming, very much alive boy/girl who casually grows in importance.
Lil' Cal is a robot, or at least robotic
Considering the robot parts in D Strider's bathroom
, and the fact that one of them resembles the head of a puppet his pre-scratch self had
, this might not be that much of a stretch.
The glasses-based computers (Serious Business Goggles and iShades) and other such computers with no typing input are operated by voice-to-text.
They have to operate them somehow
, and we're definitely not seeing any holo-keyboard popping out like Jade's computers. This is also supported when the crocodile
, "MY GLASSES ARE TALKING TO ME
," which may suggest the process can work both ways.
- Also supporting this is [S] John: Enter village. John's conversation with Vriska, which happens through his Serious Business goggles, is represented the exact same way as the conversations in Alterniabound. Of course, that may be for simplicity of both programming and representation, but still.
The Archagent of Prospit is going to become shockingly important at some point
Presumably Prospit and Derse would both have agents and archagents, right? Balance?
- They don't have archagents. The Queen is more heavily involved on Prospit, while the Queen of Derse is much less involved.
Andrew Hussie has a distinct place in the story
He serves as a Good Counterpart
to Lord English. While English exists beyond time and space, omniscient, etc, and exists to destroy universes and cause death, Andrew Hussie exists as one who describes universes, and fleshes them out into becoming good things. Think of it as the conflict between Derse and Propsit, played out on a massive god-like scale. Presumably, Andrew Hussie has counterparts in other universes, artists who make the universe stronger and more varied. Heck they might even be fan artists and fan fic writers, who explore the universe Hussie established.
- What does Hussie's death at the end of A 6 I 2 mean for this WMG?
- Invocation of Death of the Author of course! More realistically; remember how when Doc Scratch took brief control of the story it somehow managed to get even darker? What would happen if LE took control of the story?
- With the events of Act 6 Intermission 4, it's looking pretty likely that we're going to find out.
- So wait ... since Lord English is in fact Caliborn, and his good counterpart is Calliope ... does that mean Andrew Hussie is Calliope?
The carapacians were the first players of sburb
Their species was then 'enslaved' by the game and used as the prospitians and dersites throughout the sessions.
Hussie is a winner from a previous session
Let's think about this. He already looks noticably different from everyone else, due to his orange skin; this would imply that he's not human. As the author, he can manipulate the world as he wishes, just like a god. Hell, he can even render Doc Scratch
inanimate just by being near him. My theory is that he is from a universe that existed before he Trolls'. He was the only member of his session who managed to survive the game, which would explain why he is the only one like him that has been observed.
- Specifically, he's the Heir of Space, as we have seen.
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