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Here be spoilers for Reconstruction, Recreation, Revelation, Season 9, and Season 10.
Holographic storage is a real (fringe) technology. It is quite immune to EMPs.
I didn't think the idea was to destroy the AIs, it was to shut them down. Besides, the AIs aren't holographic storage. They're artificial intelligences that use holographic projections to communicate.
Maybe emps work differently than EMPs.
Wrongo. Wash clearly says that the AIs are being kept in holographic storage. Their holo-projection doesn't matter. It might destroy all the surrounding circutry needed to access the data, but that can be fixed. Maybe that was Wash's intention?
Probably so; however the plan revolved around not destroying the stored AI but tricking Maine and destroying the ones he had which worked perfectly. There's actually not any indication there are any stored AI at all; most likely it was a white lie Washington used on Church, similar to the Director and Maine..
This is likely an oversight on the part of Rooster Teeth, but could evolve into a plot point. What if the Director decided to use the EMP Wash set off to cover him moving the rest of the AI fragments before the authorities could arrive so he could continue his work in secret? This would also make Wash's plan a little more logical, as his main goal was to get Epsilon to the authorities first and then use the EMP to stop the Meta and cripple the HQ, but not to destroy the rest of the potential evidence.
Suit storage is never said to be holographic. Wash's statement applied to the actual data records. However, even those seem damaged. What is likely is that while the data isn't actually damaged, various components and the interfacing technology is damaged beyond repair. Besides, it's never stated that holographic storage is literally holographic storage: much like many computer terms, it might simply be called that while being something else.
It's been focused on Church for almost the entire series at this point. I think they could do something with the fact that Grif is pretty much unkillable, despite all the effort Sarge has put into it. Let the Reds have a turn!
The Reds do have some importance: Burnie mentioned a long time ago that the number of robot kits the teams received was very important. The Reds received one and the Blues received two. The Blues have two known AI characters, ergo...
He says that, and yet they haven't done a damn thing with the reds for over ten years now...
Why did Washington ask Church to go? He knew that he would be at the epicentee of the EMP. He knew that it would kill Church. Washington intentionally lead Church to die.
Maybe the plan was that he would jump back to his robot body before the EMP went off, but because it fell out of Caboose's jeep, he got caught in the EMP after all.
They were at least a few miles away at the time.
Or maybe Church realized what he was and went along with it. In that moment before the AIs, he probably learned what he truly was. And I suppose that's something he wanted more than anything else.
More than living?
Also, EMPs don't necessarily destroy computers, they shut them down (like when Sarge modified the Warthog to use the EMP for more power—it didn't destroy it every time, it just shut it down for a while). So the idea was probably to shut down the AIs until they could be safely rebooted in isolation somewhere.
Then why does Word of God say the Alpha is gone is my question...
Perhaps they're lying? It's not unheard of for creators to intentionally give out misinformation so that the fans don't actually know what's going on until the creators are ready for the big pay off where we find out what really happened.
Also, what was the exact words of Word of God? I mean, remember back when season five was closing and they said it was the end of Blood Gulch Chronicles to make everybody sad, but then continued the series in another way? There could be a similar loophole.
Ehmps might not, but electromagnetic pulses work by frying every single transistor in the circuitry. That's pretty destroyed.
Church and Tex show an ability that no other AI seems to be able to do; survive long term without a body. Not even Omega can survive without another body to hop into very quickly. Therefore, while other AI would be destroyed by the EMP, the Alpha likely could.
Could what? Please be specific.
Could survive the emp by outrunning it and waiting for people to arrive for him to possess.
Wash clearly wanted to bring an end to the whole ordeal. What exactly the Alpha knew is still unrevealed, and he too could have become Driven to Suicide by regaining his memories. It's clear however that Wash didn't coerce him into going into what the Alpha knew was his death.
Washington said Church always agreed with Delta... but there was only one case where Church agreed with him, the rest involved him openly questioning a fair number of things Delta said (namely Washington's sanity).
Delta was a representation of his logical side, not his intuition. Which means they would only agree in situations where they both had the same amount of knowledge. So as an example, Delta had known Wash longer than Church and as such, was able to make more informed opinions about his sanity, while Church would be relying on pure intuition.
That doesn't change the fact that Church only agreed with him once.
Church may have only agreed with Delta once, but Delta agreed with Church several times, which I always thought was just as important. Don't forget that Delta wasn't around them for very long. He didn't exactly have a lot of time to be agreed with. For the amount of time they were both present they never seemed to disagree.
That's why it bugs me. They agreed once on one thing, and had only a handful of conversations, most of which would not have included any reason to agree or disagree. There was not have had enough interaction for Washington to have made that assessment.
Washington probably just listed a bunch of attributes that Church would have, him always agreeing with Delta was one, since that's his logic. The fact they didn't spend much time together is irrelevant.
There's at least one instance in which Church did not agree with Delta, though indirectly. Washington killed South after Delta suggested it, but Church treated Washington as though he were crazy. That means Church did not agree with Delta's suggestion that Washington kill South. However, what's interesting is that even after that incident, Church still considered Delta to be a trusted source of information (such as asking questions about the Freelancer program while they were getting into position to take down the Meta).
This can be addressed by what someone said a little earlier. Church disagreed because he didn't have the information Delta did. Delta had personally witnessed South backstab people multiple times, and knew that if they brought her along it would just be a matter of time. Church had only just met South and to him it seemed like cold blooded murder.
Not to mention the fact that while it might have been a perfectly logical act that doesn't mean Church would agree with any logic, even his own. There is more to him than logic after all, so he could be objecting for other reasons while still agreeing it's perfectly logical (note that he never really says it wasn't necessary, just that Wash is crazy for doing it without hesitation).
I actually thought a better demonstration of Church being the Alpha would have been that his logical abilities impressed Delta, namely when he predicts that the Meta is running out of power. Given that Church is actually Dr Leonard Church, Director of Project Freelancer its pretty reasonable to assume he's a genius and is therefore the only character capable of keeping up with Delta. On the other hand, agreeing with Delta is just common sense.
Where are Tucker and Donut?
You see a guy in "Light Red" armour in episode twelve while the Director is talking. Their voice actors didn't want to do it I think.
Well, in Reconstruction 17, Grif heard a voice calling into base respond to a double entendre with "Bow Chicka Wow Wow." This MEANS something!
Maybe their schedules couldn't handle it and are limited to cameos.
Donut's voice actor appears in the outtakes on the DVD, as Donut complaining that he didn't get to be in Reconstruction.
He also appears in a deleted scene where he's revealed to be an infiltration agent now. Apparently, he's very good at penetrating rear entrances.
Bow chicka wow wow!
He's also in the audio commentary very briefly.
Check out Red Vs Blue Relocated Part Four.
Why doesn't anyone think that Alpha is Tex? She is also a ghost and Wash said ghosts don't exist so she has to be an AI too. And he said Tex got special treatment and Church really hasn't gotten that. I don't know I just can't really shallow the idea of Church being an AI. Not Tex either as a matter of fact. Didn't they both have bodies?
The fact that Epsilon showed us clips of events that happened to Church after his supposed torture tells me that the A.I are still linked to him somehow, therefore Epsilon has all of Church's memories even past the split. Epsilon shared some of these memories with Washington during their time together, so that's how Wash knows that Church was the Alpha and not Tex. As for the bodies, they will probably explain that in upcoming episodes.
That's presuming that Epsilon doesn't simply have the ability to transfer memories. At any rate, if he's still linked to Church he's probably still linked to Wash too - hence being able to draw on Wash's memories as well.
All AIs are capable of giving off something based on what fragment they were. Omega, being anger, increased aggression. So Epsilon, being memory, could give off memories. The reason why Tex isn't Alpha is because then she would be too close to Command; they wanted the Alpha somewhere else. that's why they dumped him at Sidewinder. it's possible that someone at Sidewinder started getting nosy, so Command had pushed Omega to his breaking point and shipped him to Sidewinder to take out the soldiers there. The reason he didn't kill Church is because he's Alpha. Soon, Church was shipped to Blood Gulch, where no one was smart enough to know. Flowers may have known, but he stalled and died.
There's another explanation in a deleted scene where Wash reveals that Tex was the one who planned and carried out the attempted rescue of Alpha from command. So there's the answer. No-one thinks Tex was Alpha because she was a Freelancer at the same time that Alpha was being stored at command.
And everyone seems to have forgotten a key fact—when Omega was in Tex's head, there was definitely two warring personalities in there. But when Omega jumped into Church, he didn't feel different at all, because he was also an AI (and the one Omega was originally split from).
I reckon that Tex is based on the "someone very dear" that the Director lost.
Now, of course, we know that Church is the Alpha because he was based on a different Leonard Church, and Tex was indeed someone very dear the original Church lost, and actually is not a full AI at all—she's a "side effect" of the creation of Alpha.
Church still has "residual" memories from the original Leonard Church. However, some of these memories would have to be lacking. At least the torture would have to be missing, because that's what Epsilon had. Yet he would also need to have forgotten having been the Director, and having been copied into an AI, and all of his experiences as that AI up until the torture started. So why doesn't he notice these "blank spots"?
It's very likely that he only has memories up to the point of his age minus a couple years or so. Remember that the Director is an old man and most certainly didn't become Director until at least a bit older than Church believed himself to be. What really bothers me about that are the dates. Wouldn't that be a good way to prove he's an A.I.? The dates would have to be out of whack somewhere if he really has anything of the Director's memory.
Hmm... a thought just struck me about that. Sheila said that her on-board clock was messed up during the crash, didn't she? Perhaps all the clocks in Blood Gulch were specifically set backward so that Church wouldn't notice the discrepancy. Other people might have noticed it, but just not brought it up for various reasons - plus, not very many residents of Blood Gulch were exactly smart enough to notice something like that and consider it important.
The Director states he's an old man, so let's just say he's about sixty or so. Church sounds and acts like he's either late twenties or early thirties. He doesn't notice any blank spots because he lacks about thirty years of the Director's memories anyway, due to their (apparent) ages.
Its fairly common knowledge that the human brain will "make up" things to shove into memory gaps and be utterly convinced in its veracity unless showed overwhelming evidence to the contrary. (And sometimes not even then.)
This troper enjoyed the plot twist, but something still bugs her. If Church was really the AI Alpha, then when he was sent to Blood Gulch, was he in a robot body and didn't know it? Or was he in some kind of a clone body?
I've always assumed he was in "Agent Florida."
First one, most likely. The idea of him overwriting the personality of a Freelancer and taking total control of a human body without realizing he's an A.I. is just ridiculous. That fan theory always irritated me.
Then that means he could've just possessed his own corpse at any time he wanted to all throughout Seasons One and Two. Which means Church would've been better off if he had listened to Caboose for once. Interesting...
I always thought that the robot body was critically damaged and while it wouldn't have been as bad as possessing a corpse, he wouldn't be able to do anything. Plus it's not like they had anyone who could fix stuff at that point.
So the birds circling above the body was just a coincidence? :p
First season blip, like 'where did Church and Tex's graves go?'
Sarge sneaked over under cover of darkness and vandalized them?
My theory is that, seeing as Project Freelancer presumably wouldn't want him to know that he was an AI in a robot body, they would have installed some sort of mental block to prevent him from realising the truth about his body. It's fairly unlikely, but they could have provided a very lifelike android body for him - possibly so that he could have earlier slept with Tex's equally lifelike android body, assuming those aren't implanted memories to make him seem more realistically human (they probably are) - or a robot body that can replicate some human bodily functions, e.g. emanate smells to attract the birds, or expand to mimic weight gain - which Tucker and Caboose joke about much later.
I always assumed that the original bodies of Church and Tex were just regular soldiers who got put into the Freelancer program not for their abilities but just to hold the Alpha AI and whatever exactly Tex is. It’s feasible. Whereas the other AIs only alter someone’s personality, Church has displayed the ability to completely overshadow someone, like what he did to Sarge when rescuing Tex. These poor shmucks actually bit the bullet when they died in season one, but the AIs were freed. Possessing the corpses wouldn’t work because they were actually dead.
As Burnie Burns said, if you're into Red vs. Blue for its elaborate and well maintained continuity, you're in for a bit of a surprise.
In Revelation, it's revealed that there are a bunch of copies of Church kept in cold storage. That must have something to do with it.
This question will be answered in the second episode of Season 9.
The UNSC is equipped with the means for a process known as "flash-cloning". It's likely the Director made a younger, brain-dead clone of himself for Alpha to occupy.
In Season 3, (almost) everyone is sent 2,000 (?) years into the future. So how the heck are the Red vs. Blue war and Project Freelancer still going on? Better yet, how did characters like York survive?
Tex and Church wonder the same thing in season 5, and Tex says something along the lines of "There's a lot of people telling us lies." The only people who really confirm that they're that far into the future are Vic (whose job it seems is to lie to the characters) and Gary (who is made of deceit). It's heavily implied that the explosion in season 3 only sent them a few years into the future - long enough for Sheila to fix up the bases and go a little screwy, not long enough for the "war" to end.
Also consider how, when Tex meets up with York, neither he nor Delta find anything strange about her reappearance. If they really had time-jumped 1000+ years, you'd think someone would have said "Holy crap, where have you been for the last 1000 years?"
Wash says that Command was behind everything that has happened to the Blood Gulch teams all along, so the timeskip might have been completely fake.
In Chapter 4 of Recreation, when Donut mentions to the Counsellor that the reason they were at that base where they fought O'Malley was because they were sent to the future, the Counsellor is extremely confused. We then learn that Sarge's conclusion that they were several thousand years into the future was based on very shaky logic.
Said 'logic' was that the place they were in had an intact base and a lot of ice. After the explosion, wrecked base and no ice. Sarge takes this to mean an ice age has ended and they are now in the future. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't heat melt ice? And, y'know, explosions blow buildings up? Sarge is a master of the Bavarian Fire Drill.
According to Freelancer records, that is training scenario 3.
This boggles my mind, but if Church kept failing miserably to Set Right What Once Was Wrong, why didn't he learn from his mistakes and take precautions to avoid them? For instance:
Don't talk to Sheila and Lopez about the Robot Army.
Leave a 'Broken, Do Not Use' sign on the teleporter, rather than fix it yourself.
Three big things: Firstly, he only went through the events at Blood Gulch once. So... he couldn't learn from his mistakes. Secondly, it's implied in season 10 that all of that was, in fact, just a virtual simulation being run by Gamma to torture Church by making him think everything was all his fault. And lastly, rule of funny.
Yeah, but it said 'Many failed attempts later...'. You'd think he'd learn...
Those failed attempts are various different ways that we didn't see. He didn't mess the same things up, he messed up in new and creative ways. And again, likely a simulation designed for him to fail. Kinda has that going against him.
If Church was an AI rather than a ghost, than how was he able to talk to Sarge when he was briefly dead?
Sarge likely wasn't brain dead, and Church was possessing him.
We know AI can enter people's minds, as evidenced by Tex and Church entering Caboose's mind. Sarge was never fully dead, just knocked out, which is why CPR worked on him, so maybe Church was inside his mind like with Caboose. Caboose is a moron, and thusly his mind is scattered. Sarge is heavily devoted to the fight, so perhaps his mental layout just happens to look a lot like Blood Gulch, and has accurate depictions of those around him.
Either that, or, given that each AI seems to have a power, Church's AI power was enabling Sarge to view what was going on around him while passed out.
The powers actually come from equipment. It's just that some equipment requires an AI to use, because there are calculations involved that a human cannot possibly do, especially in the heat of battle.
But what about the Sheila ghost?
Church ascribed her as "dead" too, so he could have filled her in. Either that or she's an AI fragment linked into him.
Only Church reacted to Sheila. She might not have really been there.
Revelation reveals that the grey netherworld was actually just Sarge's mind being placed into Recovery Mode, a state where a soldier's armour is locked down and mind preserved in a virtual construct when they are severely injured. A.I.s can also enter that construct.
When Church was sent to the past, he was still possessing the robot body Sarge built for him. How did he grow a beard?
How was Sarge able to give his team a pep talk while singing the Red team anthem with the Red flag appearing out of nowhere? They're just throwaway gags.
Especially since that beard didn't last more than one scene.
Waaaay back, in Season 2 - have they ever explained how Tucker managed to just get better, despite the fact everyone went after O'Malley because he had been severely injured? Did they bring it up in an audio commentary?
No, they didn't explain it. Presumably they originally had a different plan for what to do with Tucker and then changed their minds at some point (In the Season Three commentary, they do mention that a lot of stuff was cut from the season simply because it was already so long). On screen, the most likely reason is that Tucker wasn't as badly injured as the characters thought. They aren't the smartest people after all.
Maybe Tex knows rudimentary first aid, and the armor took care of the rest.
If Church was just an AI, then how did he have a relationship with Tex? The other memories could be implanted, but Tex is right there to confirm they had a relationship. And it did sound like they had sex, so he would have to take off his armor...wouldn't he?
They could either be remembering the memories of Dr. Church and the girl Tex was based on, or they were given false memories as part of the doctor's experiments.
Well, as we now know... Tex isn't real, either. She's also just an AI. So nothing ever really happened, it's just residual memories. Or possibly implanted memories so that they wouldn't realize they're AI (although Tex may have known beforehand).
Is Washington The Scrappy? Am I the only one who dreads seeing him because I know the funny is going to stop?
Matter of opinion I guess. Personally I see Wash's potential for humour in the concept of him being a more or less "normal" person thrown into the Red vs. Blue world and watching how he reacts to it all. In addition, Reconstruction was going for a slightly more serious tone anyway. Also Burnie Burns said he wanted a new serious character to give Church a break from being the exposition guy.
Hell, the way things are going, he might be Season Eight's Big Bad.
I would be all for that. I like Wash, but I think this was a instance of "break the stoic" more than anything. Wash has been pushed awful far to this point.
Yeah, Reconstruction could well have been the last straw for him. He risks his life over and over to bring the Director to justice and gets arrested for his efforts. Caboose does absolutely nothing and gets a shiny new base. Who wouldn't be pissed?
This troper likes Agent Washington, but the last episode of "Recreation" seriously ticked her off. Damnit, Wash, why'd ya have to go and shoot the Red Team, huh?!
I had this reaction at first, but I think he gets better over time. I got this with Tex too. I suspect it's probably because, seeing that we like our incompetent, lazy grunts from Red and Blue teams, any overly pro-active, tough, serious or macho characters need to be unfunny in order to show the absurdity of the main characters and their situations. As Church puts it in Reconstruction:
Washington: How do you ever get anything done if all you do is argue with each other?
Church: We don't! That's part of our charm. Quit fucking it up!
Though it explains where the yellow-armored Church during the time loop comes from... it just raises more questions! How exactly did Caboose's version of Sister end up being identical to Church's actual personality when he left, especially considering he hadn't had the same personality before? Why did the yellow Church suddenly jump into the time loop? And how exactly is that Church part of the loop at all? He didn't even exist until almost everything is over.
I always thought that Church possessed Caboose in one of his a million attempts at keeping the bomb in his body from going off. He then stuck around and played the part of Sister, Church's twin brother... for some reason. I think that theory was mentioned somewhere in the WMG section. >_>
It's Caboose. Nothing makes sense to him. Nothing makes sense in his mind. It must be one hell of a coincidence.
In Recovery One, South claims she no longer has the ability to use her armor enhancement, the dome energy shield, because the Meta stole it. Yet in Reconstruction, she used it just fine. When did she get it back?
The lies went all the way to Command. At the end of Recovery One, we find out Command predicted Washington would behave the way he did, and the whole thing was a set up. South then betrayed Command once she had Delta. It was a Gambit Pileup, and it's possible the Meta never attacked South (until Reconstruction anyway).
You know something? This is all Simmons' fault. If he hadn't sent Donut to The Store, none of this would've happened.
Ah, but that's the chain of responsibility, isn't it? Is it Simmons' fault for sending Donut, or is it Donut's fault for not asking where the store was in the first place? Or Sarge's fault for leaving Simmons in charge? Or Caboose's fault for mistaking Donut for a General? Or Church's fault for putting Caboose in charge of the flag? Or... y'know what? I'm gonna go lie down...
There's one part that hasn't been considered: the Church that went back in time pointed Donut in the direction of the Blue Base. Who knows, if he hadn't done that, Donut could have just "wandered around the cliffs for a few hours."
I´m nominating Master Chief. If not for him, the Blood Gulch Crew would be in space and fighting some aliens.
In other words; dead.
Let's see... it's the Flood's fault. If they hadn't attacked the Forerunners they would have built all the weapons the Covenant used to almost win the war which led to Project Freelancer being formed to find a way to win which led to them putting the soldiers in the box canyon in the first place.
As fun as it is to think that a small incident caused the entire events of the series, alas, it isn't true. After viewing Revelations, it's clear that Command just used the flag capture as an excuse for initiating one of their Freelancer training scenarios.
So I noticed on Halo Waypoint that they've been airing Red vs Blue episodes in fullscreen now. It looks like Season One has been re-shot using the PC version of Halo. I've also seen a couple of fullscreen clips from later seasons too. How long have these episodes been around for now? I bought the Blood Gulch Chronicles DVD boxset in 2008 and they still had those letterbox episodes. Are the fullscreen version going to be released on DVD anytime soon?
Yes, you can pre-order them on best buy here it comes out June 29, 2010
Here's a few for Revelations: What was the point of bringing Doc in if Donut was dead? And why did they have to have Donut killed anyway? (And don't say no one likes him, I still think his death was incredibly cheap.) Also, did they change Epsilon-Church's voice? I noted that it doesn't sound like Church's voice, and maybe it wouldn't bug me so much if the other characters would just comment on it... I know the new season is just beginning, and they might resolve things in their own way, but having to wait for it is just annoying...
In the matter of Doc being called in, it'll be answered in the next episode. Washington ordered Simmons to get a medic to come look at the Meta, who has been having trouble using his equipment since he lost his AI. Killing off Donut, I don't know, I liked him. Some people have been saying Dan Godwin didn't want to do it anymore, or maybe they wanted someone Killed Off for Real to emphasize this season being Darker and Edgier. Hell, maybe this is all designed to mislead us and they do still plan to bring him back somehow. The aliens brought Captain Flowers back after all. As for Epsilon's voice, it sounds the same to me. It's still Burnie Burns voicing him. They use a different filter because he's inside a monitor instead of a suit of armour.
The sponsor version of Episode 13 has Donut waking up after Church orders orders all of Red Team's suits out of Recovery Mode. Presumably he'll be back when they can do something with the character other than gay jokes.
As for Epsilon-Church's voice being different, he isn't getting the "mic" filter put over Burnie's voice because he isn't in a Spartan body. Instead, they've put a sort of synth over it, to mimic the Monitor's voices.
I just realized something. Why is Church, the Alpha, permanently a dick/angry all the time? His backstory is that he was tortured, so he went insane and cast away his personalities, which formed different individuals on their own. Except, one of those personalities is Omega, the Alpha's anger. If Church's anger was separated from him, why has it become his defining characteristic? He should be a generic everyman if his personality was stripped from him, not a hothead.
In the commentary of Reconstruction, Burnie acknowledged the contradiction and joked that Alpha just had such a filthy temper that even losing Omega didn't make a big difference. His other, more serious explanation is that with Omega gone, Alpha still gets angry, but now without reason. Such as hating the Freelancer program even though he (as far as he knows) has no reason to do so.
There is also a theory floating around that the Alpha is trying to compensate for its missing parts.
Bow Chika Bow Wow.
Because it's a split personality. From what I understand, when someone manifests a Split Personality, where a new personality is created, often representing a specific aspect of the person, they don't lose the ability to feel that way outright. Just because Omega represented Alpha's rage and was separated doesn't mean he loses that emotion completely. He just tried to dissociate himself from a large bulk of his rage in order to "protect" his psyche. Just like when he lost the memories from Epsilon doesn't mean he loses the ability to remember. At least that's the best justification I can think of.
That's what I was thinking. Church still has anger (Omega), logic (Delta), the ability to lie (Gamma), creativity (Sigma), the ability to remember (Epsilon), etc., but they're cut down from his original ones, turning him into a relatively ineffectual, not all that brilliant guy who's a terrible shot. Presumably, with all of his faculties intact, he'd be at least at Freelancer level.
Depends. At full capacity, he's a "Smart AI", essentially making him like Cortana.
Am I the only one who thinks it's kind of unfitting to describe Omega as Alpha's rage? It just doesn't seem like anger was O'Malley's main character trait. Granted, you could argue that most of the time we saw him, he was inside Doc and thus possibly being calmed down a little by Doc's pacifist nature, but considering O'Malley was always going on about being an evil-doer and wanting to take over the universe, wouldn't it be more fitting to say that Omega was Alpha's evil side, or lust for power?
We're talking about the same people who thought they were 2000 years in the future because they ended up in a place without ice and who believe pumas are mythological creatures. Brilliance is not their overriding personality trait; ignoring the obvious in favor of complicated theories is.
It kinda bugs me that the Blues are such a Character Magnetic Team while the Reds are... not. Seriously, the Reds haven't had a permanent new member since Donut. Apart from briefly having Doc as a prisoner and then Sister who was never technically part of the team anyway, it's always been the same guys. Meanwhile the Blues got Caboose, Tex, Doc briefly, Andy, the alien, Doc again, Junior, Sister and Epsilon. I know the plot usually revolves more around the Blues but still...
Lampshaded in Revelations, as Simmons asks "Hey, ever notice how the Blues have a lot more going on than us?"
This is probably because of the team's individual members. Specifically, Church and Tex. When the serious angle comes into play, they're the best characters to center it around, because it fits them.
If Gary is actually a Freelancer AI, how did he exist 1,000 years before Project Freelancer even started?
To trick Church after the plan to use Lopez's weather control device to take over the universe failed, so they could get him to eventually save Tucker so he could give birth to Junior so O'Malley could kidnap him to use him to win the war and gain power. Why did O'Malley create such a crazy Gambit Roulette? Because he's evil and insane enough to think that a Weather Control Device could help him to take over the universe to begin with.
It was all a lie. Gary is the AI of deceit.
Why didn't Washington show up when Tex died?
Firstly, we can't be entirely sure she is dead. Wash himself said he wasn't sure if she was alive or not. Secondly, with all the theories that she's an A.I, it's possible that she doesn't have a recovery beacon on account of the fact that she can't be killed in the conventional way. Finally, it's possible that Wash wasn't on active duty at the time. He had been shot in the back by South, I imagine that he would have needed some time to recover and wasn't available to be sent in until the Meta had already left Valhalla.
While the first part of that might be true, you have to remember that Tex being "killed" took place months before Washington got shot in the back, as Tex was killed at the end of season one and Wash getting shot in the back was somewhere in between the end of season 4 and the beginning of season 6.
Blood Gulch is infamous for its bad radio signals and messed up communication. If Tex did send out an Recovery Beacon when she 'died', it's possible that it was either lost in nowhere (like what almost happened to Omega before he snatched Doc) or interrupted by Vic.
What bugs me is Tex, the only character in Red vs. Blue that I can't stand at all. She is the least funny, compelling, and interesting character in the entire series. She's a stereotypical tough girl character to act as a foil for the goofy incompetence of the rest of the cast, filling a role that, to be frank, never needed to be filled. There's basically nothing original about her, but she keeps coming back even after getting killed in Episode 100.
She has fans and plays a huge role in the story, hence why she keeps coming back.
Your Mileage May Also Vary as to how much focus she gets. After getting blown up at the end of Blood Gulch Chronicles, she didn't have another speaking role until Revelation, 3 years later.
I just watched the newest episode, and while I'm glad that both Church and Tex are back, something still bugs me. Who were the Church and Tex we saw in the trailer for Recreation? I get that this Church we see now is Epsilon in a new body, but... what about the other two? And the other ex, for that matter?
My guess is that the Church and Tex we saw in the trailer are the real ones. This new Tex is some kind of copy I bet. Or maybe she's the end result of some kind of splitting thing, like what happened to Alpha. For example the Tex in the trailer could be the calm, quiet side, while the new one is Tex's aggression. My bet is ultimately Alpha and original Tex are gonna show up and somehow fuse with Epsilon and the new Tex, fully restoring the two characters.
The fact that Tex gave Tucker the same merciless beating she gave the Reds supports the "not real Tex" theory.
Why? Tex beat Tucker up before.
Plus, you know... Tucker did throw that grenade at her. I think... what was that thing? I don't remember it exploding ~_^. Oh, and he called her "Sweet Cheeks".
It was Donut who threw that grenade, not Tucker.
Okay, but now something new is bothering me: Word of God states that the Alpha AI/Church is essentially deceased. The same Church that's been around from the very beginning, the one we all know and love, is gone. Not that I have anything against Epsilon, mind you, but still...
I'm somewhat consoled by the fact that Epsilon seems to have fully assimilated Alpha's memories (from Blood Gulch Chronicles and Reconstruction) and personality. He may acknowledge himself as separate from Alpha, but I feel as though he truly is Church.
Thanks, that that helps me feel a little better...
It doesn't bug me that much, but I kept thinking that Tucker, Grif and Simmons have bribed Tex in the past, so they should be able to again, right?
In Chapter 13, she refers to Tucker as "that guy with the sword" rather than by name, hinting that she doesn't have any memory of him.
Although in later chapters she clearly remembers their past encounters.
"Eh, I barely remember your names most of the time anyway."
Donut dies from one bullet. Washington blows up and survives. Consistency? What's that?
First of all, Wash may still have York's healing unit. Secondly, Simmons once said that the armour they all wear is designed to absorb explosions. Granted, he also said it deflects bullets, but I imagine Wash knows all the weak points of the armour and therefore, where best to aim. Also, being a Freelancer, I wouldn't be surprised if Wash's armour and pistol are both more advanced than the simulation troopers.
The only one who confirms Donut is dead is Doc, and his lack of medical knowledge is a running gag. It's been confirmed that the sponsor ending of Episode 13 is canon and Donut is in fact, alive. He was just in lockdown mode.
I guess it's only a small thing, but I noticed an inconsistency in chapter ten of Revelation. Near the start, Tucker appears holding his battle rifle and his deactivated sword is attached to his hip. Fair enough. But then when he confronts Tex with his sword drawn, his rifle is nowhere to be seen and he now has a pistol on his hip. Shouldn't his rifle be on his back? Why did they change his weapon set?
Maybe Tucker needed to get rid of the extra weight to move around better.
When he used his sword it was a Monty Oum animated sequence, not the normal machinima. Monty might have left it out on purpose to make it easier to animate, or he just goofed and forgot it.
How can an A.I. have an A.I.? Especially in the case of Tex and Omega, but also when Omega went into Church for a brief moment.
One word: nesting. You can have one program inside another (Windows can run Word, for instance). To answer your question in a different way, the A.I.s are based on human minds, so how is it any different than a normal human like Caboose using an A.I.? Also, it turned out Omega was part of Church anyway.
The Freelancers were all about experimenting with AI. When they ended up with the Tex AI as a side effect of creating the Alpha, they probably figured "Hey, why not stick two AI together and see what happens?" Because Tex was the more "complete" AI, instead of just a fragment (technically, yes, she's a part of Alpha's memories, but I don't think she was created when they split up Alpha, I think she manifested before that somehow), she ended up being the one in control.
She was created beforehand. When the Director's (presumably) flash cloned brain was... AI-ified, Tex was spawned alongside the Alpha.
Putting Donut's apparent resurrection in the sponsor only version of chapter 13 bugs me. While I'm thrilled at the idea of Donut not being dead, the fact that it's a scene that not everyone will see raises questions. Does this actually count as official canon? Is it like that extended episode of Reconstruction where Doc made a brief appearance? And considering no mention of it has been made in Chapter 14, it just leaves a whole bunch of unanswered questions.
I haven't actually seen the ending myself, but I heard that it might have been CT and not Donut
I don't know where that theory comes from, it's very clearly Donut as we see him get back on his feet in Vallaha and hear him talk.
It's been confirmed that the scene is canon. Maybe we can expect to see Donut get a Big Damn Heroes moment at the end.
Highly unlikely. Burnie wrote that the scene will not make it on the Dv D, as it is not important to the plot.
So to sum up... Donut's alive but only sponsors will ever know, or Donut's dead and sponsors get a misleading scene to make them think otherwise?
Yep. Its Burdingers Spartan.
The scene basically exists to justify any future instance of bringing him back.
How is "Du-frain" difficult to pronounce? If you saw the name "Dufresne" written down and weren't sure how to say it, that'd be one thing, but just hearing someone say "My name is Dufresne" and claiming that you can't pronounce it? It's two simple syllables, Church. You're not retardedCaboose.
It's Red vs. Blue. Everyone is an idiot, even if they're intelligent enough to recognize it.
Actually I just think Church was being lazy and didn't care about the guys name anyway. It's Doc, nobody likes him.
Related to the above comment about Tex, what makes Tex such a Badass anyways? I know in the latest episode she fights Wash and the Meta at the same time, but up until then she was only fighting the Red and Blue teams, none of whom are known for combat skill, tactical expertise or even basic competence.
She dodged a heat-seeking rocket, lifted a shipping crate over her head, and broke through a 6 inch thick metal wall with her bare hands. If that's not badass, then nothing is.
The sheer coordination necessary to beat them up in such a stylish way is badass. Besides, as incompetant a leader as he is, Sarge is a pretty good fighter, and Tucker has obviously taken several levels in badass.
Being a badass is pretty much a prerequisite for anyone in Project Freelancer, as seen in Season 9.
Forgive me if the answer to this is entirely obvious, because it's been a while since Reconstruction. South uses Delta to power her shield, right? So how was she able to use the shield before using Delta, considering that she doesn't have an AI?
Going by how Grif is able to use powerups without an AI, it seems that even simulation soldier suits can use powerups, AIs only help manage the calculations required to run them. And how could an AI produce energy anyway, wouldn't they just drain more?
Indeed. Some powerups, such as South's shield and Tex's cloak are just "on/off". Others, such as Wyoming's time control, need an AI to run. One wonders why Meta couldn't use the Cloak until getting Tex, though it could have been a mild case of Obfuscating Stupidity on his part until he could get his hands on an AI.
That's because while the cloaking device is relatively simple to run, Meta still had all his other armour enhancements as well, which were draining power from his suit. He needed an A.I to calculate the power requirements. Another possibility is that the cloak is difficult to use, but Tex was capable of using it without Omega because she was an A.I herself.
Why does Gary have the time distortion and manipulation powers both as a monitor and as a tank when every other Freelancer has their established powerup with them instead of their AI?
It's been stated that the A.I are capable of running the armour abilities. It's possible that, when he was a monitor, Wyoming left his time manipulation unit with Gary so he could use it. However when Gary is operating the tank, I'm betting that Wyoming was the one using the armour ability. After all, his helmet was taken by Tex onto the ship, where the Meta retrieved it. If it had still been in the tank, the Meta wouldn't have been able to get to it.
It's also possible that Gamma simply transmitted the calculations and data to Wyoming to facilitate its use.
The above question reminds me of something I'd been thinking about. In Season Five, Caboose suggests transferring Sheila's AI into his armour the way Omega had. Church tells him that it wouldn't work because she's not that kind of A.I. However later, Gamma, the same kind of AI as Omega, is able to take over the tank.
It's possible that Gamma is backwards-compatible. Kind of like how you can play PS1 games on a PS2, but not the other way around. Gamma is sufficiently advanced enough to fit inside the tank and take it over.
Also, they needed a massive cable to transfer Sheila to the ship, because shes hardwired into the Tank. it could just be that they lack the equipment to transfer, or that her functions are too specialized to work in a humanoid form.
The only ones stationed at Valhalla were the Reds and Caboose. How do they explain how Tucker and a guy in Church's armor (I assume they are trying to pass Wash off as Church, but that doesn't change anything) are suddenly there?
I think the command doesn't really seem to pay much attention to the Red and Blue simulations. After all, no-one at command seemed to raise an eyebrow when Simmons deleted the Blues from the database and they sent no reinforcements to Valhalla even when it was five Reds to one Blue.
The fact that the Blues were deleted from the records is probably what allowed the oversight. The data on the Blues was retrieved from the off-site backups by FILSS/Sheila and therefore would have had information on Tucker and Church.
Besides, the ones who showed up to take care of things didn't seem to actually be Freelancers. If the Director really is being tried for breaching protocol, it would make sense that some other branch of the UNSC is in charge of cleaning up after the Freelancers. Therefore, it's unlikely they'd actually know much more than "there's some red guys and some blue guys".
If Project Freelancer got shut down, why are the Freelancer training bases still in operation?
Project Freelancer was only one faction of the UNSC. Once it was shut down, the UNSC seized their training grounds and allowed the Reds and Blues to continue their training.
So where did Wash get the cobalt armour from? I'm guessing he took it from Epsilon's robot body, but how come he still has the yellow trim? Even if he took the shoulder pads from his old suit (which he didn't, as we see his old suit on the ground, still bearing the yellow trim), where'd the yellow stripe on the helmet come from? Did the group just happen to have a can of yellow spray paint with them?
Yes. Sarge is that kind of Crazy-Prepared. Seriously though, Burnie mentioned how this was for the benefit of the audience, to make clear that it really is Washington we are seeing.
Well, they were still near that Freelancer base. Could've still been some supplies (including armor or at least armor parts) lying around in some back room somewhere.
Or they could've just painted the armor, something which the Blue Team did previously with Lopez and Simmons himself did (with the exact same results of "missing a few spots").
Two things about Church:
Does no one care that the real Church, for all intents and purposes, is basically dead? Sure, Caboose's perception of reality has probably blurred the line between Alpha and Epsilon, and Sarge, up until recently, didn't care about the Blues. But shouldn't Tucker at least be sad? This goes for Donut, as well. You can't say that they don't care about each other enough, because Church was sad when Tex "died," and Simmons was visibly distressed when Grif appeared to have died.
This may be more due to the specific relationships in question. Simmons and Grif are Hetero Life Partners and (in the words of Tucker) bicker like an old married couple. Having seen Caboose's mind, it's very possible he doesn't exactly understand that Church!Alpha is dead. Also, I tried counting the number of times Caboose himself killed Church but lost count. Tucker not only wasn't concerned when Church died the first time back in Season 1, but he'd seen Church come back from the dead multiple times previously. Tucker was not surprised as Church being the Alpha, and therefore may have more understanding of the AI portion of Project Freelancer than is stated outright in the show. Church and Tex, however, have a romantic history. Thus no one cares when Church!Alpha dies because they're on the other team, don't understand, or don't care/expect him to come back. Donut was the butt-monkey of the Red Team, and Lopez was a robot and could be repaired, plus he just made back-ups of himself. Also, Sarge becomes very professional once he figures out Simmons's message and therefore was more concerned with the mission than fallen team members (something he doesn't seem to worry much about anyway considering his plan to get Andy the Bomb into O'Malley's compound in Season 3). Grif has already shown that he outright does not believe someone is dead until he sees the body personally after Lopez tells him his sister is dead, so it's not surprising he's not broken up about Donut. Therefore, the only people who would be upset at the death of a teammate is Church with Tex, Simmons with Grif, and Caboose with Sheila.
This is point is hidden because thinking about it kind of cheapened the Revelations Finale, and I don't want to inadvertently cheapen it for someone else. Epsilon Church has actually only known Tex for, at most, a couple of days. He never really forged a brotherly relationship with Caboose. He's never even been to Blood Gulch. All of his emotional scenes in the finale...feel kind of meaningless.
I think when they say that Epsilon has all of Alpha's memories, they really do mean ALL of them, including the Blood Gulch memories. Notice how at the end, Epsilon-Church says that Blood Gulch looks different from how he remembers it, despite Epsilon never having been there, only Alpha-Church. If you're wondering how Epsilon got Alpha-Church's memories, remember that in Reconstruction when Church got close to the Epsilon unit he started getting painful flashes of memory, this may have been the two of them wirelessly interfacing with each other.
I'm not saying that he doesn't have those memories. And I'm not saying that it's not emotional for him. I'm just saying that it feels less emotional for me, the viewer. But that's just my personal opinion.
I always just assumed that Alpha Church made the jump to Epsilon Church just as the EMP went off. The reason it took so long for him to remember who he was was from trying to absorb Epsilon into himself.
Alternatively, the memories are intricately tied into the emotions associated with them. Note that Epsilon-Church refers to Tex as "my girlfriend" he acknowledges that he isn't Alpha, but he seems to believe that he is Church.
Personally, I'm all for the Alpha merged with Epsilon theory myself...
Alpha merging with Epsilon seems to make the most sense to me, since he thought Tucker was Captain Flowers due to his armor color. Caboose arrived at Blood Gulch long after Captain Flowers died, and if anyone ever told Caboose that Tucker's armor was originally his, I doubt Caboose would have remembered it long enough to relay the information to Epsilon
Yeah, I'm going to go with the merging theory. It makes sense in a lot of ways. And the stuff he says at the end (about Epsilon and Alpha) makes it seem that he's not the Alpha, he's not Epsilon, he's just... Church, with some extra memories thrown in.
Further supported by the fact that Church now seems to have all the memories from the other AI, such as all of Delta's logs, as well as the AI that Caboose never met (like Sigma and Theta during his rant against the Director). Church also retained the ability to project without a need for a host, something none of the personality fragments were capable of doing (he still needs it for long distance travelling, but still). It also gives a happy ending by letting Church reform and accomplishing what the Meta was trying to do.
In Revelation Chapter 10, why does Tex keep crushing Grif's nuts over and over again? Wouldn't it be more appropriate for her to be hitting Tucker in the nuts, what with his constant "bow-chicka-wow-wow!" jokes and general chauvinism?
Two theories: either Sarge paid her off to hurt Grif, or she secretly actually likes Tucker, despite him being annoying. Oh, and one more: she doesn't want to risk hurting the sword, which she still wants to get her hands on.
From a writing perspective, everyone else in the fight had something to do, so Grif at least needed a running gag. Tucker has his sword, Caboose is pushing buttons, Sarge is trying to stand up to Tex, Simmons is trying to obey Sarge's plan. None of these would be in-character for Grif, and with everyone else having a purpose to write jokes around, Grif got stuck being the Butt Monkiest.
According to the commentary that was just Monty putting some jokes into the fight scene.
I might end up wording this badly, so bare with me, but Epsilon Church really never seemed to know about Alpha Church. In the finale, he said that originally, everything was based on the Alpha, but in the memory unit, he is the Alpha. Wasn't the Church from Blood Gulch Chronicles the Alpha already?
It could be a dual meaning - in there, he is the Alpha as in, "the most important person," or he's the Alpha because "Epsilon gets to live through Alpha's memories," or even that "Epsilon became Alpha through copying Alpha's memories and entire being," or tons of other dual meanings. I doubt it was to be taken literally.
How do the people at "Command" sleep at night? They create simulation environments for "Red" and "Blue" squad members to fight each other for training purposes... but said "Reds" and "Blues" actually try and hurt/kill each other! (They use live ammunition, Tex nearly kills Donut with a grenade, Sarge was able to call in a massive airstrike, etc) Since when did "training" involve actually loss of life and/or life-threatening injuries?
Not everyone has a conscience, friend.
Plus, they didn't seem to be too bothered. How many times have Grif and Tucker been blown up / beaten / shot?
The Director also had absolutely no problem whatsoever with torturing to the point of insanity an AI based on his own mind—and while he may not have treated Agent Tex as badly, he certainly didn't treat the AI sort of based on his lost love with too much care or respect either. Why should he care any more for the humans under his command?
Yeah, but not everyone at "Command" knew about Alpha being tortured. The Director and the Chairman knew, and probably the engineers involved knew, but the Freelancer agents certainly didn't know. It seemed like a pretty classified thing. I guess it just bugs me that the freelancers (especially the non-evil ones like Wash and York) could go into an RVB base and start blowing guys up as part of their "training."
Well actually it goes a bit further, in this Troper's opinion the Director is legitimately insane, losing Allison was so devastating to him that he has completely detached from reality.
The Armor Lockdown shown in Season 8 as an explanation for the "afterlife" Sarge saw when he was nearly killed in Season 2 as well as Donut's recovery in the sponsor-only version of that Season 8 episode mean that even though they're using live ammo, they aren't in any real danger. Also, the simulation soldiers were specifically chosen because they wouldn't be missed by the regular army.
I have 3 questions: 1. After putting aside his hatred of the Blues, gaining respect for Grif as a soldier, and harboring a massive resentment to command over manipulating them for so many years, after he dedicated his life to them.... why does he just go back to old Sarge after the finale? He goes back to not caring for Grif's life, seems perfectly fine with going back to fight against the Blues in their base, and all progress just seems to have been wiped out. 2. Simmons personally saw Washington execute Donut. Why is he so amiable and friendly towards him, treating him like he would any other blue? 3. Church tells Caboose to remember him because Tucker "will just fuck it up." I'm sorry, what? Caboose is the one with the good memory? I know this isn't the actual Church from the BGC, but still... Caboose? Has he not realized he is a ditz?
I don't have anything for the first two, but it seems like Epsilon Church has a much more brotherly relationship with Caboose since he's spent more time with him, as opposed to Alpha Church who spent more time with Tucker before Caboose showed up.
I think I have one for the first one and maybe the second. In the first case I think Sarge was just messing with Grif when he suggested they just leave him there, and he never said he planed to fight the Blues when the returned to Valhalla. As for the second, Wash just helped save their lives. That might help with the whole "not Killing Donut thing".
As an above poster said, Sarge was just messing around with Grif. And when the Reds were talking about the Blues in the finale, it seemed to just be them reminiscing. And Sarge still hates Command. For the third question, I think that Church was just trying to make Caboose feel better. Plus, by "fuck it up," he probably means intentionally. He knows that Caboose will do his best to remember, and his best is good enough for Church, even if he lives on in Caboose's memory as an annoying prick. He's probably more afraid that Tucker will intentionally screw around with Church's legacy just to fuck with him.
So Sarge knew that Grif was going to call close enough to the wall to stick in the Brute shot? I doubt that. And I don't buy that the whole kill Donut thing might to so unaddressed. Alliances made because of a common enemy don't typically last after the common enemy is defeated. At the very least, the issue would be addressed, I think. I'll accept the Epsilon Church explanation though.
(1) That Sarge gained respect for Grif seems to be the result of fans applying the friendship equivalent of Shipping Goggles in Revelation. He doesn't insult and threaten Grif as often. He relies on Grif a couple of times when he has no real alternative. As for going back to fighting the Blues, his speech did also hint at the fact that everyone liked their situation. (2) Most of the stuff with Wash is up in the air; we saw very little of their interactions after the fight. He might be a Karma Houdini, or he might not. (3) Remembering Church wasn't important in a practical sense; the stuff about memory keeping you alive was generally meant metaphorically when people referred to it. (The AI project obviously gave it a double meaning because they were based on minds and, sometimes, memories.) It was just a Friendship Moment done for Caboose's benefit. Epsilon knew he might be gone forever, so he gave Caboose a job that would make Caboose think that he was doing something vital for his best friend.
Maybe Sarge didn't want to see Grif's dead body just after he finally did something.
This is less about the character, but why is it that everybody on this site is treating Wash as some kind of Karma Houdini? Granted, he's not exactly the pinnacle of moral standing, but he's not evil! All he did was shoot Lopez, whom he knew was a robot, and therefore could survive. He shot Dount, but Donut's still alive, and there's no way Wash did that by accident, knowing his skill level. And he lets Doc live for no practical reason seeing as he's an incompetent medic and useless as a hostage!
Hell, Donut took out Tex. If anything, based off of whatever information Wash might have on him, killing Donut probably was the smart thing to do.
Not to mention that Washington's only after them because they didn't follow his order to turn Epsilon over to the Chairman which lead to Washington going to jail. Washington's pretty justifiably pissed at the Blood Gulch soldiers.
Plus, Wash might've known that that shot wouldn't have killed Donut.
Is it even possible to understand Recollectionswithout watching the miniseries'?
Nope, and since the Recollections DVD features Recovery One, that's not a problem.
Actually, yes. It is perfectly understandable without having seen the various miniseries, although they do add quite a bit of backstory and are definitely worth watching.
I don't understand how this can bug anyone. Surely, as a fan of Red vs. Blue you'd want to watch more of it and not skip bits?
Is it ever explained exactly why the sight of Washington was enough to make Epsilon angry enough to activate his laser eye? What did Wash do to him? I thought it might be a hint of something that happened between them back when Epsilon was Wash's A.I but we never learn anything. Even if Epsilon was recalling Alpha's memories, the last time we saw Alpha and Wash together, they were working with each other.
Washington was rounding up all the AI fragments and taking them back to Freelancer HQ. Epsilon contains the memories of all of the fragments, or at least their base personalities and major memories. Epsilon can't explain what made him so pissed, it must have been the other memories.
Immediately after, Epsilon says he wants to go back, he's pretty frantic about it, so it's possible anger isn't actually what sets Epsilon off, just extremely strong emotions. And... come on, seeing his old partner (even if he doesn't remember it) would bring back some pretty nasty memories anyway (as he was paired with Wash immediately after he was split off from the Alpha), even if he didn't consciously realize it.
Church!Epsilon hasn't regained all his memories by this point and is acting irrationally because they are starting to return slowly and cryptically (including memories the Epsilon AI hadn't experienced). Also, the only two encounters Epsilon and Washington have had at this point (Wash's original implantation and pulling him out of storage) ended with Epsilon trapped in a recovery unit but aware of the outside world.
How does Wash understand what the Meta is saying?
Probably a translator module built into his armour. Master Chief can understand what the Covenant are saying, after all.
Alternately, just because he's been around him so long. Judging by the Season 9 trailer, they were friends (or at least close colleagues) before the AIs drove Meta nuts.
Every Freelancer is given a codename (a state) and a A.I named after a letter in the greek alphabet. Each Freelancer has one A.I. There are 49 states and 24 letters in the old greek alphabet. How is this possible?
Maybe they started using letters form different alphabets?
They stopped assigning AIs after Wash, remember? Presumably, if they had continued and used up all the letters, they would have done what the second poster said.
In the commentary for Reconstruction, Burnie mentioned that there were less A.I than Freelancers. Some A.I simply didn't survive the fragmentation process, others were kept in storage for experimentation and weren't given greek letters for names.
Season 10 also showed that AIs were reserved only for the very best Freelancers.
Epsilon's name. Alpha is the first, which makes sense. Omega and Gamma were presumably some of the first splits, as they were the ones who tortured Alpha to split his personality more. This also makes sense. We can assume that Omega was made first, and the program named him as such to contrast with Alpha. Then they probably made Beta, then Gamma, going with the Greek letters' order. From there, Omega and Gamma started their handiwork. So, things are making sense...until Epsilon. If Epsilon was the last AI, why was it given the fifth letter?
Maybe he was the fifth one Project Freelancer could actually use. Wash mentioned that there where rejects and bad versions. Command couldn't figure out which where which at first and only gave the "good ones" the greek letter names.
As stated above, some of the AI never received Greek callsigns. It may be that Omega was chosen for field use last, even though he was split from Alpha first.
We don't know that Epsilon was the last AI to be created. Yes, they stopped their work with the AI implantation after Epsilon went nuts, but we don't know how long it was after Wash was implanted that Epsilon self-destructed or how many other AI were created/implanted in the mean time.
Wash specifically states that the memories were the last ting that Alpha cast off.
Okay I have to ask. Has Word of God actually confirmed whether or not the trailer for Recreation is in continuity or not? I've heard some people assume it isn't, but I haven't heard an official statement yet. There's nothing in the trailer to imply that it's fake, especially considering how Reconstruction's trailer wasn't. There's also the fact that certain events, like the fire at Blue Base or Grif teasing Simmons about subtracting one from five are referenced later on in the actual season. But at the same time, there's been no word on whether or not those were the real Church and Tex we saw and whether or not they'll be returning at any point.
Word of God (Burnie Burns, I think) has confirmed that the scene with Tex and Church in the trailer is a non-canon 'hook' to get people to watch. Trailers Always Lie.
Why didn't they use Caboose for any of the fight scenes in Revelation? Had he gone mano-a-mano with Tex, it would have made for a pretty awesome and action packed fight. Now, I know how that sounds, but just think about it for a minute: First of all, Caboose has been shown to be physically stronger than Tex when he had to carry Andy into O'Malley's fortress (and considering some of the feats of strength Tex demonstrated throughout Revelation, that's saying quite a lot). What's more, despite his sheer and utter stupidity, Caboose has also demonstrated mad skills with just about any firearm he's ever used (i.e. sniping Sarge in the head, defeating all the Reds and Blues at Battle Creek, gunning down a fleeing South Dakota at range, etc.). All things considered, his only real flaw is that he only manages to fight well against people that he's trying to "help," but that had already been easily worked around by his teammates ordering him to "help" the enemy. All they would have had to do was say "Caboose! Go help Tex!" and he would have gone "Okay!" and *POOF*, instant awesome battle!
I understand that Caboose hasn't been in a CGI part yet due to rules Roosterteeth made for each character. But why is Caboose in particular the one they chose to have that restriction?
I figure it's because Caboose's humor lies more in his stupidity than his incompetence in battle. The more I think about it, CGI Caboose getting beat up by Tex or helping the others fight off the Meta just seems kind of strange in my mind.
Also pretty cruel, since he's basically a child. I didn't like that sequence at all, actually. Why didn't they just shoot her or run to a more defensible position? How is that a worse option than hanging around and letting Tex beat the shit out of them? (Was it really Tex? She hated the Blood Gulch crew, but she didn't attack them for no reason. Except when they're asleep, of course.)
They did try to shoot her. Repeatedly. But she was fast enough to dodge, get close up and disarm them before they could get any shots in. They didn't run because A: they were unfamiliar with their surroundings so they didn't know if there was a more defensible position nearby, B: she would have followed them and I really doubt any of them would be able to outrun her and C: they were panicking. Most of them were barely even trained as soldiers and they were up against Project Freelancer's ultimate killing machine. I'd have panicked too. As for whether or not it was the real Tex we were seeing, we'll have to wait and see. Rooster Teeth is being awfully coy about who this Tex is.
Agreed on the reasoning behind Caboose not being in CGI because him getting beat up would just be cruel. It would be like shooting a puppy!
Yes, I totally agree that having Caboose fight would be cruel but they've also used CGI for gags, like Grif kicking Epsilon and Doc being stuck in the wall.
It was mentioned in the commentary that they had planned for some animated gags with Caboose (such as his helmet getting turned around so he couldn't see), but they never got around to doing them and by the time they got to the Tex fight, they stopped using the animation for gags and they agreed that it just didn't feel right to have Caboose animated.
I have two questions:
In Season 3, when Church and Grif are in jail on Sidewinder, and Wyoming walks up to them, he is using invisibility. Invisibility was not his ability, it was Tex's. How did he get invisibility, and if he had it, why did he never again use it?
The show is set in the Halo universe, where there is more than one cloaking device. I'm guessing Tex's cloak is more effective than the regular kind. She can attack people without turning visible and stuff. Wyomming was presumably using the an ordinary cloak like the ones you get in the game and I guess he just never felt the need to use it again. Although he may have. He did sneak up on the Blues when they were at Red base.
This one is very minor, but after Grif crashes the Pelican into the canyon in Revelations, Wash tells Tucker and Caboose to go collect stuff for him. He mentions Tucker by name, but as far as I can remember, Wash has never met Tucker. How did he know his name?
Multiple ways. First, all the Reds' and Blues' profiles were on file; Wash could have come across Tucker in the databases. Second, Tucker found out about how the conflict between Reds and Blues was a lie, and Wyoming was sent after him; presumably, more than one Freelancer was told about the situation. Third, the Blood Gulch gang could have told Wash about him. Fourth, Tucker was working as an ambassador to the aliens, so he could presumably have celebrity status. Fifth, he has an alien child, which isn't exactly commonplace, and is probably widely talked about. Sixth, Wash could've been briefed on the entire Blood Gulch gang when he was sent after them.
It's definitely the sixth one since Wash was looking specifically for the Blues. It would make sense for them to actually brief him on who he was looking for and by extension which Blue not to look for.
Why is it when Tex and Church arrive at the frozen base, Tex takes one look inside, talks a little about Alpha and then immediately leaves, saying the Director is the only who can answer her questions now. Was there a scene in the sponsored version where she looks around the base and finds nothing there or something? Because it feels awfully abrupt. Why go all the way to that base if you're just going to leave again.
The base was an old Freelancer place. She went there to get munitions to fight Wash and the Meta when they arrived.
I assumed she saw that the place was abandoned and that everything was shut down/wiped, so she instead switched to luring Wash/the Meta there so they could take her to the Director instead.
The entire "Revelation" in season 8 that OMFG the Red vs Blue battles are a lie! We already knew that, Wash told us all about in Reconstruction, so why did everyone act like they had no idea?
Probably because the way Wash said it in Reconstruction (arguing about why they should let him order them around), they probably thought he was either making something up to be a jerk to them, or otherwise wrong. (Heck, Sarge even scoffs, "You're making that up!") It wasn't until Revelation that they had concrete info other than just taking Wash's word for it, so that they realized yeah, he'd been absolutely right, and they just couldn't deny it anymore. Or in short, I'd say it's part of the running gag that nobody ever takes Wash entirely seriously.
Also, Sarge seems to be the only one that cares. The Blues are busy with the actual plot, while Simmons is just more annoyed he was considered expendable and Grif…well, caring would require putting forth effort.
If Grif and Sister are from Hawaii, then where the hell did they go ice skating where Sister could have been stuck underwater for three hours?
Just because they lived in Hawaii doesn't mean they never left the place, ever.
500 years into the future, a lot can change. For all we know, Hawaii is cold in the future.
They have these things called refrigerated ice skating rinks, you know…
But those are not put over lakes. It's just ground under a layer of ice.
In Out Of Mind, Tex and York talk about York's eye injury and they all agree it's Omega's fault. But the Season 9 trailer implies that York lost his eye before they began implanting AIs in people, possibly before Tex even became a Freelancer. How is that supposed to work?!
We don't know that it took place before any implantations, just before Wash's and probably York's and Maine's. Previous references indicated that the process was done in groups, so not all of the Freelancers got their AIs at the same time. Wash's reference to them implies that that part of the program was in its early stages, so presumably Tex was an early attempt.
Could also be a red herring; for all we know, York's eye will get injured again and much worse by Omega later in the series.
This seems to be the case seeing as York seems to shrug off the eye injury in the trailer when telling Wash about it.
You guys are a bit off. York's eye injury was caused by Maine throwing a grenade in training, and Tex saved his other eye by using shooting him with the sticky stuff, which hardened the armor and saved York's life. Now, none of this has anything to do with Omega, but notice that Tex and York never actually say it was Omega's fault. They just say that by going after Wyoming, York can get revenge. This makes sense, because Wyoming was also in that training simulation, and he was also using lethal firearms. With Maine and Wyoming both being so reckless, it was just a matter of time before someone got injured, and the fact that it happened to be Maine that eventually caused York's injury doesn't mean Wyoming was being any less of an asshole. In summary, the revenge is on Wyoming, Omega's not to blame, Tex saved York in a training mission.
Why was Wash hesitant to let Church enter the Epsilon unit? I thought his original plan was to capture Church in the unit, let it malfunction, and hand it over to the Director?
The Unit failing wasn't planed, it was a result of it getting hit by Tex during the battle. The Meta and Wash originaly rigged it, so AI couldn't get out on their own, but they did not want to make it impossible to extract them. By keeping Epsilon outside of the shutting down Unit, Wash still had a chance to hand him over to the Chiarman/Commander and buy his freedom. With Epsilon (and Tex) inside of the broken unit, its impossible for Washington to prove they even existed.
In Reconstruction, Washington was surprised to find out that the Meta was Maine. But Washington worked with Maine before. Shouldn't Washington have recognized him when they fought?
He wasn't surprised; Church was. Wash was the one who offhandedly revealed the information while talking to Command about Agent Maine's Recovery Beacon, indicating that he must have known at least since the start of Reconstruction.
What was the point in everything Wash did in Reconstruction? Let's recap, he goes all the way to Freelancer base to find the Epsilon unit. The Epsilon unit has evidence of all the atrocities that project freelancer did to the Alpha. However, the goal wasn't to help Epsilon, but to simply turn it over to the authorities where it'd be left there as evidence. Also, the plan was to have Church/Alpha help Wash to fight Meta, but Wash knew full well that the EMP would kill Church. If it wasn't to help the Alpha, and he didn't seem to be under orders from anybody, then what was the point in all that stuff in Reconstruction? I get why he's doing the stuff in Revelation, that was simply to save his own ass and keep him out of prison. That's completely understandable. But he wouldn't be in that mess in the first place if he hadn't turned against Project Freelancer, who hadn't really done anything to him at that point. It sounded like he was angered at what they did to the Alpha, but part of his plan involved the complete annihilation of the Alpha.
You do remember the whole "torturing an AI so it breaks into fragments" deal, right? And that Wash had Memories of that process via Epsilon? Let me get the quote:
Wash:We take it, and we get it in the hands of someone who can use all its information. Then they can bring down the person responsible for what was done to Alpha. And to me. And to my friends. They can take down the Director.
Wash simply wanted to get revenge on the Director, and wipe out the fragments that formed the Meta since they killed a bunch of Freelancers. Having Church staying behind was morally questionable, but Church had a choice.
So in Recreation, it was revealed that the Reds and Blues weren't actually sent into the future via bomb-blast back in season 3, but instead relocated while unconscious to investigate the Great Weapon? In that case, how did Church still end up going back in time?
Recreation hints that it had something to do with Gamma using Wyoming's time manipulation device.
Though Caboose wasn't exactly smart to begin with, there's been multiple hints that his extreme "stupidity" is due to the Omega incident. It's also been stated that the forceful removal of an AI from someone's head causes some kind of trauma or damage. Which makes Caboose actually brain damaged, perhaps even to the point of disability or mental handicap. Keeping this in mind, it suddenly becomes quite uncomfortable to see the others berate him, mock him, or patronize him for being "stupid" or "an idiot." Though berating, mocking, or patronizing someone for low IQ is pretty mean in itself, berating, mocking, or patronizing a disabled person for laughs seems to be Unfortunate Implications.
While he was nowhere near as bad as he is now, Caboose was always naive to begin with, and was thought of as an idiot by Church and Tucker. Because of this, they probably didn't notice that Caboose had become even worse after Omega, because they always considered him to be dumb, and he was just living up to their perception of him. Therefore, if he is brain damaged, they don't know it.
Honestly, rewatching from the beginning, Caboose was actually pretty dumb in the beginning (at least, before Omega). I think people's perception of early Caboose is slightly warped because in his first couple appearances, he's just naive. His "that makes you... a gay robot!" line was pre-Omega, for example. He didn't really have as much of an opportunity to show off his idiocy. Plus, there's no evidence of an AI being removed causing brain damage or mental handicap of the sort Caboose has... just general craziness has been implied, and considering Wash (who had an AI forcibly removed after it tried to kill itself because it remembered being horrifically tortured) isn't an idiot, and Carolina doesn't seem to be either, I see no evidence for it. Donut, on the other hand...
Just why are people so insistent that the blue Freelancer is Tex in some form or other, even after she was revealed to be Carolina? She doesn't sound like Tex. She doesn't talk like Tex does. She has a very unique fighting style, involving flips and dancer-like kicks and minimum use of guns. It feels like forcing the similarities between the two is taking away from the fact that she's a very interesting character by herself. And now that we know she's Carolina, why keep insisting that Carolina is actually Allison or the body Tex possesses, when Carolina has a pretty cool story of her own?
Thats kind of a mish-mash of fan-theories. Ever since the big reveal of Reconstruction, people have been saying that the first time we see Church, he is already possesing a human body. Word of God says otherwise. There are hints that York and Carolina used to stick together, or where a couple (like Church assuming that when Tex met York, she also met Carolina) and Tex being Carolina in a way would make York and Tex working together more tragic.
A lot of it is fanwanking. It's entirely possible that the Freelancers actually do have (or rather had) two incredibly badass female agents. Still, they do have a lot of similarities. Consider that Delta says Caroline receives two AI. We know of a character who has two AI in one body (Season one Tex and Omega, given that Tex was an AI).
Except Tex and Church were not AI's in Season 1. That was retconned much later in the series.
They were AI's in season 1: the whole idea of a Retcon is "retroactive continuity" meaning that it applies to previous seasons. Furthermore, nothing in Season 1 directly contradicts Tex and Church being AI's, which made the retcon make sense when it was revealed in Reconstruction.
In any case, the theories are completely pointless. Carolina and Tex have been separate characters since Season 1, even before Carolina was mentioned at all. There were 49 freelancers, all of them with state designations and Allison got the Texas designation because she is from Texas.
Can someone tell me what the hell is going on at this point?
Epsilon is in the Epsilon-pod. He wants to recreate the events of the Blood Gulch Chronicles so Tex will show up. But he couldn't create the Reds with the right persionalities and Caboose already called help from Command, which originally didn't happen until after Church died. So there are some changes and this part of the series seems to focus on how those change affect the story and Epsilon.
The other parts focuses on the history of Project Freelancer. This is a Prequel to the main series, with no direct connection to the Epsilon-plot as of now. South and North extracted some Data from a Base, got discoverd, got saved by Carolina, everyone took of in a Pelican piloted by Pilot Lady. The Director is unhappy, because while they know where to go next thanks to the data, the enemy now knows they are coming. So South drops a rank on the chart and she is pissed.
Thats pretty much it.
In season 4, Church tells a disguised Simmons that he likes Donut, whom he considers to be pretty harmless. Wouldn't Church think the exact opposite, knowing that Donut was the one who "killed" Tex in season 1?
Church is yanking Simmons' chain in that scene. It's not about what Church really thinks, it's about what will make Simmons upset. And let's face it — aside from that one lucky throw, Donut is harmless.
Who exactly are the Freelancers fighting in season 9? They're getting data files and planning attacks like it's a huge operation, but wasn't the whole point of Project Freelancer to fight the Aliens? Why're they killing humans, when all of humanity was supposed to be on the same side of the war?
Best guess? Wait and see.
It might be similar to what happened in the Halo series. Originally, the Spartans were designed to fight against human insurrectionists; the UNSC didn't even know the Covenant existed until the Spartans had already become full-fledged super-soldiers. Seems confirmed as of episode 13, when insurrectionists are explicitly mentioned.
This is kind of a personal one, but I've gotten really emotionally vested in the story so far, especially the backstory of Project Freelancer. Is it wrong then, that I get disappointed when the episode focuses on the main cast? Or that a PSA comes up instead of an actual episode?
You're not the only one. I think the "problem" with doing two completely different story lines, in completely different styles and moods, is that it splits the fans into two groups. There are those who wait on the edges of their seats each week for Freelancer action who then get disappointing when it's just the RVB guys talking. Then there are the fans who miss the "traditional" RVB, and complain that there's too much action. Last season, there wasn't such a divide because it was all mixed together into one story line.
Another person who agrees with you. I feel like as much as I like the BGC crew, their storyline feels pretty finished with nowhere much to go in terms of growth and development versus just rehashing the same stuff. And honestly what we've seen of the BGC crew so far seems to confirm that; it's amusing and occasionally laugh-out-loud funny, but nothing we haven't seen before.
In contrast, the Freelancer stuff is fairly new and interesting, and has been handled pretty decently throughout the series' run. And it's a chance to get to know better some characters like York and North that barely got any screentime before, or folks like Carolina who were previously mere mentions. Unfortunately, the constant switching back to the BGC is interfering, and making it feel like neither storyline is picking up enough steam. I really wish RT had just stuck fully to the Freelancer story and possibly just saved the BGC stuff for next season instead.
And it's sort of darkly amusing to see that the forum thread on RvB is full of people who feel exactly the opposite of us...
I think part of it might be because of how long the freelancer episodes take to make, they would never be able to make a whole season worth of these. Besides the Blood Gultch stuff helps the pacing of the series, having the traditional episodes means that all of the CG episodes do not need the level of action that episode 2-4 had.
Now that we are nearing the end of the season things are getting crazy in both stories, this season will be awesome on dvd and part of that is because of its pacing
In episode 11 of season 9, when Wash, North, South, Carolina and CT come running in to check on York, the Director comes in and says they ought to be ashamed of themselves. Um....why? Whay did they do? He makes a speech about how they need to work as a team. So....what, expressing concern for a teammate's well being is not teamwork? I could understand him yelling at Maine and Wyomming for going all Leeroy Jenkins in the last episode, but he's specifically yelling at the others.
My guess is that he was just pissy and took it out on them.
He was scolding them for interfering, and praising Maine and Wyoming for their ingenuity.
They only interfered when York got blown up. Why would he scold them for not letting York die? And it wasn't even really interfering at that point, because the fight was pretty much over. I guess he could be pissed at Wash, because in episode 10, Wash looked like was about to get someone to stop the fight, but he specifically yelled at all of them. The whole thing sounded pretty weird and nonsensical, like the dialogue was written for another scenario altogether.
Keep in mind that the Director is intended as an asshole boss. He doesn't care about the individual freelancers, he only cares about making them the best they can possibly be so that they can complete their missions. In his mind, it seems, the loss of a freelancer is acceptable if it makes the rest of them better fighters, or if it accomplishes their goal. For instance, in the most recent episode, the Director sends Tex with the transmitter, and doesn't tell any of the other freelancers. If things hadn't played out the way they did, the firing of the MAC would likely have resulted in a couple of freelancers dying. Further, the pelican, that Carolina calls, also departs with only Tex and Wash on board and the pilot doesn't ask about the others, or call for a second pick up for them.
My guess is that the Director was scolding them for taking York's side. If York wasn't knocked out cold, the Director would be scolding him too for 'abandoning his teammates'. Though he's scolding everyone else, his speech seemed mostly directed at Washtington, who asked why Wyoming and Maine weren't going to be punished.
Why would Church have any reason for an Oh, Crap when Tex told him she knew everything? I mean, he went in there hoping to find her with memory completely intact, and then pull her out. It was only when he had to reconstruct Blood Gulch that he needed everything to go the way it was back in BGC.
Probably because up to that point, she hadn't so much as mentioned that she knew everything. So it's not like he gets to meet up with his beloved Tex again and they can go skipping off into fields of daisies; from his perspective, she obviously doesn't care about staying with him. And Church being Church, he's obviously not willing to let her go yet.
Does it bother anyone else that Carolina was very conspicuously wearing lip gloss and eyeliner in the Finale?
It bothers me. Not only is it plain dumb (they are on a rescue mission that, according to Caboose, went on for some time, she is wearing a helmet, so for whom to see did she put on perfect make-up that stays perfect after hours of sweaty fighting?), it's also really out of character for Carolina.
Er...she was wearing makeup when talking to the Director, not after the rescue mission. We don't even see her face after the rescue mission.
As for why she's wearing it when talking to the Director, is there a rule that says that women who can kick your butt have to hate makeup or something? It doesn't seem odd to me at all that she might wear some between missions.
But if she's wearing it to look nice, then why's she still in her armor with her helmet under her arm? Can she even use those bulky arms to do eyeliner and mascara without poking herself in the eye? And isn't there a rule in the military that women can't wear conspicuous makeup? Honestly, I think the only reason she's in makeup is because Monty Oum thought she'd look hotter that way.
"is there a rule that says that women who can kick your butt have to hate makeup or something?" No, but it's pretty understandable that women who spend all day kicking butt, jumping off skyscrapers, dodging bullets, and getting run over by trucks are too busy to put on smoky eyes.
In the scene in question, she was back at base, between missions. We're not talking about her taking off her helmet at the end of the freeway chase, we're talking about in the finale when she's talking to the Director, which is likely some time after the heist/freeway chase. So no, I wouldn't say she would be too busy to do so.
Even if she is between missions (which doesn't mean free time), if she's too preoccupied to get out of that half-ton suit, then it's pretty likely she'd be too preoccupied to do smoky eyes. I'm pretty sure women in the military don't wear mascara, eyeliner, and lip gloss while still wearing full combat gear.
We don't know her character that well. Maybe wearing make up is just an odd quirk. Maybe its just Rule of Sexy at work. Its not like it makes her any less of a character.
Considering her, ah, tone of voice while talking to the Director, it's entirely possible she put on the makeup because she wanted to impress/look good for him as much as possible while still "on-duty".
Why does Carolina call Epsilon!Church "Alpha" in the finale? If she was working with the Rv B guys, including Wash I'm assuming, wouldn't she know it was Epsilon and not the original Alpha?
Word of God is, Carolina doesn't care if he's Alpha or Epsilon. She needs him to get to the Director (probably because he can get through Freelancer security) but she doesn't care about him more than that. Which leads to an interesting contrast between Wash and Carolina—Wash may not like Church, exactly, but at the end of the day, the reason he's against the Director is because of what the Director did to the Alpha. By contrast, Carolina's presumably in it for what the Director did to her.
Who is the soldier in blue armor who appears in the background of some scenes, such as the "planning the heist" scene? He/she was apparently considered important enough to appear on the Project Freelancer cover and DVD case.
He's probably a pilot, like Four Seven Niner.
In an AMA on Reddit, Burnie said we'll see more of him/her in Season 10. They could be just support personnel, but the fact that they're going to show up again does hint they could be more important—maybe another Freelancer, maybe another pilot (there were two Pelicans in the heist, after all, even if Four Seven Niner's total awesomeness overshadowed the other guy's actions).
I thought he was Church at first. Then I just went "meh" since, while he's unimportant, so are Wyoming and (ultimately) North. They're two of the least featured Freelancers of the season (North being almost a decoy protagonist)... maybe they'll do more next season, too.
WMG has the best theory ever, for it. It's Private Jimmy from Sidewinder. It wouldn't make sense to be another pilot because he's last seen riding in Four-Seven-Niner's Pelican.
Season 10 proves it's Captain Flowers, aka Agent Florida.
The Rv B wiki says York's first name is James. Is this officially confirmed anywhere?
It's on Wikipedia, which is where the Rv B wiki got it from, but there's no reference on Wikipedia. My bet is that somebody just stuck it in there and no one ever noticed and took it down, because I've never seen any confirmation of it anywhere.
At the beginning of episode 19 of Revelation Wash tries to stab Tex with the memory unit and she knocks it out of his hands and almost off the cliff. He then yells "Be more careful, this thing cant take anymore hits." What bugs me is who is he yelling that at? If doesn't make sense for it to be Meta because he didn't have it and had no part in it getting knocked away. It makes even less sense to yell at Tex because she has every right to be knocking it away since Wash is trying to STAB her with it. It's entirely his fault but he seems to be yelling at someone, can anyone clarify this for me?
Wash is highly stressed and generally likes yelling at people for something they have no fault at.
I understand the stress part but I don't recall any time he yells at people for things they didn't do, except the incident with Donut. Even then Wash tends to be the one who is rational and calm, not the one who lashes out at others when he messes up, it all just seems too out of character to me.
I figured he was just warning the Meta to watch where/how he's attacking just in case he would accidentally hit the device. Not so much laying fault anywhere as just giving a heads up on the situation.
He was probably yelling at Tex. I've seen scenes in movies and such where a character will yell at the person they're fighting to be more careful with something, or to give something or back, or something else the person they're fighting very clearly isn't going to do. Usually it's just a person's instinct to say something like that.
Kind of a fandom headscratcher here, I guess. Namely, why do people constantly depict Washington in fanfics as being essentially a mean and cruel Blood Knight with an uncontrollable and inherent anger problem? Even when they're spot on with other people's characterizations. When IMHO it's clear he's basically the stereotypical hardened-but-still-a-good-guy generic by-the-book Special Agent hero popular in other stories, just transplanted into the demented RvB universe with all the results you'd expect. Borne out by his Season 9 portrayal where he has mostly the same personality but isn't hardened yet so he's much nicer and more naive instead of angry and bitter.
Not to say the guy isn't angry in the future, just that it's mostly justified considering both what happened to him and in having to deal with the Blood Gulch guys. I mean, he comes off as extremely controlled in being just a bit curt and snippy in reaction to the abuse and stupidity the BG guys heap on him (including Church saying he's glad Washington's comrades are being murdered, for pity's sake).
Even when he goes off the deep end in Season 8, he still doesn't flip as much as he could have. He even keeps Doc around and alive even though he has no particular reason to, and is even polite to Doc. Despite Doc snarking at him constantly.
It's the same reason why some people constantly want to pair him with South Dakota. They just don't truly understand the character.
Probably because some fanfic writers are... I don't know how else to put it, but... gullible? Superficial? That is pretty much the personality he's actively trying to cultivate. He's just not very good at it. Doc even lampshades it.
What happened to blue team's original Sargent?
The Blue Team's original sergeant was Captain Flowers who died of an aspirin overdose. It... sort of makes sense in context. See the middle of Season 3.
Not overdose, allergy.
You're both right. It was an allergy, but the "official" story that Command has is overdose.
In Recovery 1, Wash seems to be meeting Delta for the first time. But then in the first episode of Season 10, York says to Delta, "Have you been talking to Wash again?"
Delta likely hadn't seen Washington for years since the Epsilon breakdown. It's possible Delta was simply unsure if it was Wash when he first saw him. Especially considering the change in personality Wash had since the breakdown.
Alternately (and depressingly), Delta gets a memory wipe at some point between the prequel stuff and when he's recovered by Wash. Or his memories were screwed up by being shut down temporarily after York died.
Every time they talk about bathroom breaks or going to the bathroom. If they're using Mjolnir armor, then shouldn't they be catheterized?
I may have missed something describing this, so if so, please just tell me. All Freelancers are given agent names based on states in the USA. Keeping that in mind, look at North and South; North Dakota and South Dakota. The states they are named after have the same name, but with "north" or "south" added to it. Now, look at Carolina. Isn't there also a North Carolina and South Carolina? I can understand just calling her Carolina and not North or South, so she doesn't get confused with the Dakota twins, but shouldn't there be a second Carolina? I've only seen one, and no explanation as to where the other is.
One of the series' songs implies there's an Agent DC, so it may be there was only ever one Carolina, with Agent DC making up the difference.
The song also mentions Puerto Rico (but immediately follows with "does that even count?").
It's likely she's only called carolina because most people think she's either A) just that good or B) the Director had always planned to give her two AI. It's really just a matter of wether or not the Director planned ahead. for all we know she is South carolina, and the other Carolina died early so no one bothers with the 'south' part.
Carolina is named in part for having two AI implanted according to Word of God. DC is also a Freelancer in the song, so Florida can still be missing and the math adds up.
In a very early episode of the series, there are said to be 49 Freelancers; there should be 50, but something happened to Agent Florida. Now, later in season 10, they say that something happened to Agent Georgia. Did the creators forget the agent name and accidentally change it? And it couldn't just be two separate incidents, because if it was, then they would have said in the early episode that there were only 48 agents.
You have the wrong way around. Something didn't happen to Agent Florida, something happened to Florida Florida, as in, the actual state. So there never was an Agent Florida, because the state didn't exist by the time the Freelancers came around. While Agent Georgia was just a poor sap who got horribly killed, kind of like Agent Utah.
Well, still, that would mean there'd be 49 Freelancers until something happened to Georgia, meaning technically there'd only be 48 Freelancers when the discussion I mentioned took place...if even that many, since for all we know other Freelancers could have died by then.
Remember that this conversation took place back way before the Freelancers had any serious plot meaning, they were just random mercenaries that weren't Red or Blue so its less they forgot and more of a retcon as the series progressed and we actually see more Freelancers besides Tex and Wyoming.
The program started with 49 Freelancers, and Church as Alpha has memories of those days, not the actual truth. Georgia and Utah were agents, but died during training. Not a Plot Hole.
All of the above is jossed to hell and back at the end of season 10.
What was Tex's AI? I've heard her be called Allison, but Allison isn't a Greek letter, and all AIs are named after letters from the Greek alphabet, so what AI did she have?
Tex had the AI Omega as her partner, but I believe you're asking what AI she was. We don't know if she was even assigned an AI name because of her special circumstance, but if she was she's likely Beta who was offhandedly mentioned by wash in season 6, I believe.
I had actually been asking what AI had been her partner. I forgot she had been given Omega. Thanks though.
Allison came into existence at the same time Alpha did. She probably doesn't have a Greek designation, as Season 10 doesn't include a Beta in the fragment list, and the Director was more attached to her.
Season 10 shows she is, in fact, Beta.
On a note similar to my question above...there are 24 Greek letters, but 50note or 49, since there apparently is no Agent Florida Freelancers. How was that supposed to be divided up? Were Freelancers supposed to share AIs? Or were there AIs not given Greek letter names? It doesn't make sense for them to give some Freelancers AIs but not others.
Yes, it does. Take South for example, she was never going to get an AI no matter what she believed as she was part of the test to see how jealous she could get. I doubt every agent would get an AI, plus when the AI were starting to be implanted, agents were already getting killed off (Georgia) so they probably didn't even have 49 freelancers when AI started showing up.
They started with 49 Agents 48 not counting Tex / Allison. Given the Director's methods, the leaderboard was probably just a method of determining who got AI, outside of specific experiments like North and South. We also know at least a couple Freelancers have already died, though others outside the main cast do seem to exist. The full compliment of Greek letters was never used anyways; there are only 8 fragments (discounting Alpha and Tex).
8 that we know of. There may have been others (which could be interesting in the current season if it comes out that there's other fragments that weren't destroyed in the emp). However, it still stands that there likely were far fewer than 24.
No there are only 8 period: Season 10, Episode 6 shows Sigma creating the symbol for the Meta, not including Epsilon. The entire list of Greek letters is on the board when he does so, and only the known AI, plus Iota and Xi are listed (which incidentally was their debut of sorts). While Recovery One seems to suggest there are a minimum of 14 or so fragments, Rooster Teeth has been adamant about continuity being a loose hodge podge rather than hard and fast. Ergo, Seasons 9 and 10 take precedence over the other material. So if they only show 8, then there are only 8.
Just because they only had that many at that point in time doesn't mean there aren't more fragments harvested later. This is still several years before the blood gulch chronicles.
Epsilon has been said to be the last fragment; after his breakdown in Wash's head, nobody else got any implants. Then again, this was said while South was trying to trick Wash, and she is part of a known experiment, so it is possible. However, the Meta only had 6 AI at the time◊ of their destruction, and the other two known ones (Alpha and Epsilon) are accounted for at that time. Unless the Meta's AI were wiped previously at some other point, that seems to indicate there are only 8 AI rather concretely.
Or there could be more Freelancers out there with AIs and the Meta hadn't managed to capture all of them. I don't think that's all that concrete.
Just rewatched Reconstruction... there's explicitly more AI. The Meta has 7 when the EMP goes off (including Tex), there's also Epsilon and Alpha. However, Wash mentions that there's multiple other AI still in storage at Freelancer HQ. Therefore, there are other fragments.
While it's nice and all that Wash and the Blood Gulch crew seem to be gradually becoming friends, it's kind of spoiled by the fact that they still believe Donut is dead. Sure we may know the truth, but they don't. Even Wash himself, as far as we can tell, believe that he really did kill Donut. It just seems a little...cold.
As far as we know they think he's dead. Sarge seemed a bit... off about it didn't he? It's possible sarge knows Donut isn't dead and is pretending for a tactical advantage or something. However if that does not end up being the case then yes, it's kinda cold but eh what are ya' gonna do? Donut is mostly gay jokes at this point anyway and RT's characterization has been lacking as of season 9.
Been watching season 9 again and I'm wondering, how does York being part of the last episodes' mission fit with the trailer? The trailer seems to occur somewhere between episode 17 (Maine is injured) and episode 19 (where Wash is seen talking with CT, and the trailer shows he followed Maine to the medical facilities, so directly after said injuries occured, presumably). The thing is, York says this bit in the trailer about the docs "letting [him] out tomorrow"... while he obviously was already "out", with Wash and Maine even. So what does he mean with "out"? I mean, it can't be a mistake from, like, an early trailer made before the whole season was planned, in the same trailer you can see him driving the Warthog from episode 17 when everything goes south. And he can't be talking about some other wound he might have got during this mission, since he's replying to Wash's really unambiguous "How's your eye", implying he's been under medical surveillance since episode 10... So what's that all about?
RT's mentioned that the trailer had some sequences out of order. It was mainly to give us a "feel" for the season and isn't meant to be taken as actual events happening. Kinda like the Recreation trailer, where you see Chuch's ghost talking with Tex, though that never actually took place.
Aside from York's "how's your eye", Wash's knowledge of the AIs, and them being on Angel on My Shoulder rather than Mother of Invention this would fit perfectly at some point shortly after 17 (likely prior to Carolina's meeting with the director in 20). Only problem is that Wash and York's other discussion after the mission kinda seems redundant at that point. I think it's about as canon as Alpha and Tex walking around Valhalla in the Recreation trailer.
Remember "Planning The Heist"? York implies that he's not actually released from medical care yet. Chances are he's back in recooperating, possibly from strain since he wasn't even supposed to be out yet.
Is Theta officially announced to be Alpha's "empathy?" Because that itself is a headscratcher, since it seems like "child-like" and "empathetic" are being considered the same thing in Theta's case. Children aren't really the epitome of empathy.
On the forums (click "See More"), Bernie said about Theta: "A common split personality manifestation is the child-like persona that the other personalities protect. I felt we had to have one in our group of fragments." But then someone posted that Matt and Shannon said somewhere that Theta was the Alpha's empathy, so, er, I dunno.
I think it's less that "child-like" and "empathetic" are the same thing, and more that the empathetic fragment just happens to be very child-like. (Like how logic and dry humor aren't part-and-parcel with one another, but Delta has both in spades.)
It was confirmed by Matt and Shanon during the freelancer panel of RTX. I'm not sure if the video is still up, but someone asked what Theta was to which Shanon answered empathy which was confirmed by Matt a second later.
Season ten officially gives Theta's attribute as trust.
Why haven't they found out that Donut is alive yet? He was shot at Valhalla, and presumably left there, and at the end of Revelation, the Red and Blue teams (or at least the Red team) went home, back to Valhalla. Wouldn't they have found Donut wandering around?
There are a few possibilities. One could be that the guys haven't went back to Valhalla yet and Lina found them and forced them to turn right around and go get Epsilon (unlikely) or during the time the others were gone Donut returned to the previous job he was doing in season 6 with Tucker. He also could have went back to command. it's up in the air at the moment.
I got the impression that the scene has since been decanonized as a sponsor-only one-off joke. They're far more hesitant to make mind-screw jokes (thank you Agent Nevada) and Sarge and Church in S 10 E 1 talking about Donut's death would suggest a canon declaration that they aren't recognizing Donut being alive.
Donut's VA still doesn't want to do the series on a regular basis. As long as that's the case, then he won't reappear. But if he does change his mind, then the scene can be used as a foot in the door for him to come back.
I interpreted the scene as a way to basically keep Donut around. He may not be relevant or involved with the main story all the time, mainly because his VA doesn't work at RT, but they have a way to bring him back if they get the opportunity to.
Episode 12 seems to confirm that the teams haven't been back to Valhalla yet. If he is alive, they wouldn't have run into him yet.
Does it confirm that? Because they "go home" at the end of season 8. Also, Sarge's dialogue at the beginning of season 10 suggests they were hanging out there, kicking ass with/getting their asses kicked by Wash, when Carolina found and recruited them. (And by "recruit", I of course mean "told them to come with or get shot in the face".)
If the resurrection was canon, then Donut most likely just wandered off and everybody else just assumed he was still dead.
Episodes 13 and 14 of Season 10 confirms that this is the first time both teams have returned to Valhalla since the events of Season 8, as the Red Team figures just now that it should be time to find Lopez, and it is apparently the first time Tucker has been to Valhalla since Caboose is giving him a tour of their base.
Donut does show back up eventually, using the armor as a justification. However whether he'll be a recurring cast member or this is just an example of The Bus Came Back is yet to be shown.
In Season 10, Episode 10, when CT and the Pillman escape... What exactly is stopping Tex and Carolina from breaking down/hacking the door? They only just went through a second ago before Tex started complaining that they "got away."
They ran to a ship. It's possible Tex and Carolina knew they wouldn't catch up to them before they took off.
It's more the fact that they didn't even do anything. Maybe call in an airstrike? Try to override the door with those fancy AI they've got? Or put a tracking device so they can catch em later? Nope. As soon as CT and Pillman go through the door, it's "aw shucks, they got away."
It's been established that Carolina is a shit leader plus I doubt Tex cares all that much if the Director's plans go down the tube. And if you want to look at Lina in a better light, you could say that she WANTED CT to get away.
That's a good point, especially since CT was mortally wounded.
The power was cut off and the door was still shut behind them. Carolina and Tex had no equipment to break through and had no way of knowing that they were actually going to a ship. Wasn't really all that much they could do; especially given that there wasn't likely to be any support in the area. Remember, they had to sneak in via freefalling for miles.
So Wash's Freelancer special ability is apparently an EMP burst? How does that work, given that Freelancers were designed to be A.I. equipped soldiers, and EMP is specifically shown to fry A.I.s?
It's of noticeably smaller scale, so it's likely modified in some way.
It's probably directed/close range/weakened (capable of knocking things out without permanently damaging them). In Transformers Animated Ratchett had an EMP that could pretty much OHKO any opponent (he almost never used it in such a manner, it's supposed to be used like a Cybertronian anesthetic), but he himself was immune to its effects. Perhaps it's something similar?
Could also be a smart pulse that only resembles an EMP. The only thing it's shown to do is shut off a Warthog's engine, and in fact we don't know if that's Wash's armor ability or not yet. Might just be a sort of grenade or something; Wash could never use an EMP with an AI in his armor as it would wipe it clean.
This is more of a Meta headscratcher but i keep hearing that Dan hates being donut/being associated with donut/working with RT, etc. But does anyone actually have a source for this info? i asked around on the forums and got nothing so I'm wondering if this is just a rumor.
From what I understand, fame isn't really his thing.
Yeah, the impression I got (at least from what I've come across) wasn't that he hates his role or RT, he's more just a Reclusive Artist who isn't comfortable with the fan attention. He's also the only one who kept his day job, which also interferes sometimes. As much as I miss not getting more Donut as a result, I can't really blame the guy; fans can be weird, creepy, or even just overwhelming even if they're nice, so it takes a certain type to be able to deal with it. If it's not your thing, it's not your thing.
Minor one, but how is summoning Maine "fighting fire with fire"? Because the Sleeveless Insurrectionist is strong and Maine is strong? Seems less fighting fire with fire and more... fighting.
"Fighting fire with fire" means "fighting like with like". Hence, if you're getting your ass kicked, you bring in your own guy who excels at kicking ass.
also Wash may have been making a lame pun about Sigma.
Carolina's surgery in Episode 14. In her armor? And if they're cutting into her head/neck, why isn't her hair partially shaved? Or at least, you know, moved out of the way? And they let her recover in her armor too? I know there's limitations on the animation, but they did show an extended segment of North and York in their jammies. So why not be more realistic about Carolina's surgery?
The "surgery" seems to consist of a small incision in the back of the neck. It's probably equivalent to having a mole removed. And since the AIs are hosted in the armor itself, having it on and active is probably a necessary part of the process. As for recovery, where better to recuperate than in a self-contained protective full-body suit that's already equipped with full life-support functions?
The hair bugged me too, but hair is really friggin' hard to animate so I'm not going to complain about it.
Thinking about it actually, why is Carolina having surgery anyway? We've never seen characters undergoing surgery to receive an A.I before. Both South and Caboose were able to take on Delta instantly. Wash took Alpha on off screen, but there was clearly no time for surgery. Even Carolina herself took on Epsilon by herself.
Just because we haven't seen, say, York in surgery doesn't mean he didn't have it. Remember, the Freelancers all took the surgery as standard operating procedure.
There's a difference between carrying an AI in your armor and having a full interface. It's why York and North could still hear Delta and Theta in their heads, even out of their armor, but the best Tucker could do for Epsilon was his disgusting storage unit.
In Season 10 episode 15 we learn that Donut survived being shot by Wash because of the armor lock, which was released in the middle of season 8. Simmons asks why he survived bleeding out and we learn he was healed by Doc. However at that point in time Doc was with Wash and the Meta chasing Epsilon. How did Doc get back in time to save Donut? Even though he isn't in the last scene of Revelation and therefore left before the Reds and Blues he shouldn't have been able to get there before them. And if they though Donut was dead because they saw him after Revelation but before being recruited by Carolina, then why did Doc go to Valhalla and how was Donut still alive at least days later?
It's pretty much an intentional Hand Wave. Donut was clearly shot in the head / upper chest (the bullet goes through him and breaks the window on the Warthog) but he mentions he was shot in the stomach.
Presumably the armor helped keep him alive, and if Donut knew any basic first aid, that would have helped too. If treated properly, it can actually take a very long time to die from a gutshot.
This is a universe where rubbing aloe vera on the patient's neck is a legitimate treatment for a gunshot wound to the foot. Don't think too hard about it. It's turtles all the way down.
Why was the Director so scared about Agent Texas? We're talking someone who earlier in the season took on three people, with live ammunition also involved, without him being worried. Especially since Carolina didn't want to kill her, just prove she was better.
Maine and Wyoming's thought process: "I barely know this person, but she's really getting on my nerves. Time to bump it up a notch." Carolina's thought process: "BITCH IMA KILL YOU."
Yes, but does the Director know that? He honestly seems to have no reason to be worried, from his POV. Especially since, now that I look back at the other ep, that session wasn't scheduled either.
Well this was the first time anyone tried using two A.I at once. Who knows how Carolina might have reacted? For all he knew, she might have gone nuts and tried to kill Tex.
I was wondering the exact same thing. I figure either a) He believed that having multiple A.I. might potentially turn Carolina into a Meta, causing her to attempt to absorb other A.I.. Being a cold bastard, he was perfectly happy to experiment on Carolina, but freaked out when it looked like Tex might be at risk (since she's an A.I. and all). Or, b) Carolina is just that good, so the Director was worried that with A.I.-augmentation she had a legitimate chance of doing real damage to Tex. I'm betting on a), Freelancer has gone to great lengths to keep the A.I.s from interacting with each other, and Tex doesn't seem to have had any interactions with any of the A.I. fragments except for Omega (who might be some sort of special case due to his mobile nature).
It should also be noted that, when it comes to Tex, the Director's thoughts and feelings probably aren't entirely rational.
It most likely largely based on the match being unsanctioned. The Director is a notorious control freak, so anything that he doesn't have full control over, especially if it involves Tex, would naturally have him worried.
Give One was his daughter, one was his lover he may simply not have been able to bear the idea of them in combat. He does have some feelings, after all.
Donut and Lopez and Doc have been in that valley for weeks and supposedly so have the BG crew....so how is it they're only now thinking of trying to repair Lopez or run into Donut and Doc?
The BG crew's been there less than a day — maybe 24 hours, tops.
Also, it's shown that this is the first time they've been back to Valhalla since Revelation.
Why is Church painted as the villain when he justifiably blows up on the Reds and Blues? Is he just supposed to accept that they're jerks to him and have directly hurt him in the past because they're his friends? He is asking a lot of them, and they're well within their rights to tell him off for that (Sarge quite rightly makes a point that he's not going to go get shot up for Carolina's sake), but the lecture being treated as Church's Kick the Dog moment is completely true, if delivered angrily (though YMMV on the ultimate tone of his rant). And we're supposed to think he's in the wrong for it and should make up with them? That he should be the one to lower his expectations of them to not include them being shitty to him? That's not friendship, that's an abusive relationship.
Yes! That's what I was thinking, too. The BGC are fully justified in not liking Carolina and what she wants them to do in specific, but IMHO Church was justified in ranting at them and being upset that they wouldn't help him at all.
Hooooooo boy. First off, Church didn't ask them to help — he just assumed they go along with whatever Carolina said. And what Carolina said was "You're going to throw yourselves at some bullets while Church and I follow through on a personal matter, which you have no stake in. Oh, and if you don't, I'll shoot you." From the guys' perspective, that would be the third time they've charged into danger on Church's behalf, and this time it's not remotely their idea.
Second, while Church's anger was justifiable, his mode of expression was definitely not. No one's saying Church should be happy about all the times they've dicked him over; however, screaming abuse at them is not a healthy reaction in the slightest. There's also the point that, as mentioned, they've rescued him from certain death on more than one occasion, and done so at great personal risk. They're no longer the same guys who shot him in the head or put a bomb in his gut. They've changed. Church, however, is so wrapped up in his own suffering that he can't see that and can't make his own changes. Put bluntly, he's gone from being abused to being the abuser.
I guess I've just personally experienced being bullied, then being treated like a monster for blowing up at the bullies, because I'm (IMHO unreasonably) expected to be nice to people bullying me, so it's kind of been a little too close to home seeing a similar scenario here. (And I'd note that one time he didn't even want to be rescued to begin with...)
If Church was just minding his own business, that would be the case, but as has been pointed out, half the people he wanted to intercept bullets for was on the opposite side of a (as it turned out, fake) war he was participating in. This isn't "ranting at people who have bullied you". This is "ranting at enemy soldiers because they don't want to die for you". It's that sense of entitlement that is problematic. This is you blowing up at the bullies even though part of the reason they were messing with you in the first place was because you were shooting at them and the only reason you didn't kill them was because you've got terrible aim, and despite this, have helped you numerous times risking life and limb on your behalf.
So wait, it's a sense of entitlement to not be nice and sweet to people who've been absolute dicks to you? Again, Noble Victim Fallacy like whoa.
No, it's a sense of entitlement for you to expect them to take bullets for you even though the only reason you haven't killed them is because your aim sucks too much to do so. Literally. Watch Red vs. Blue Reconstruction 4. Church even doubles his efforts when he finds out it was Caboose.
He just expected them to help him deal with the Director. You make it sound like a plan with them taking bullets for him was the only one he would have entertained. And Caboose has killed him at least twice, among other issues. You make it sound ridiculously like he just randomly was mad at Caboose for no reason.
The thing is, you're making it sound like Church is merely a victim of a one-sided abusive relationship when he is every bit an active participant of a mutually abusive one. The 'bomb in my chest' complaint ignores the fact that he was an enemy combatant extorting robot bodies in exchange for prisoners and his 'got shot in the head' bit was when he was inside Sarge's head. He's got every right to make his complaints, but considering what he's done/tried to do to them, they've got every right to turn around and say 'fuck you, I don't have to take your shit, and I especially don't have to go on another crazy potential suicide mission on your behalf for something I don't even care about'.
No, I'm making it sound like he was a guy who was treated like dirt, and has every right to be angry and upset about it and rant at the people who treated him like dirt. They may have a right to rant right back at him, but that still doesn't make him a bad person for doing so like some folks here claim. Or that he should be obligated to forgive them, or pretend it didn't bother him. He's 100% right, they are the cause of most of his problems. Them being enemy soldiers, or what have you, doesn't magically wipe out that fact.
And if that's the case, then neither does it magically obligate them to deal with his problems. He's acting like them treating him like crap entitles him to their help, while ignoring the fact that he treats them like crap too. I'm not arguing that he's a bad guy, I'm arguing that you're understating Church's behavior toward everyone else. Yes, they treat him like dirt, but he treats them like dirt, so it's this vicious cycle, and considering they're only even here because Carolina conscripted them at gunpoint, they're just as likely to be pissed at the situation as he is.
Often in response to them treating him like crap, yes. Church is an angry misanthrope... but let's face it, he's got a reason to be. He didn't handle it well, but he's not the bad guy here. Nor is anyone else other than possibly Carolina, really. That's why I said I thought it'd be a mutual realization, that they all screwed up and maybe it's time to finally mutually bury the hatchet. Instead it comes off as Church is the only one who did anything wrong and should have to beg the forgiveness of people who treated him like dirt. It's like, "Wait, what?"
While he's got reason to be, it doesn't change the fact that his exploding at them is in the context of them not going on another crazy suicide mission, largely at the behest of Carolina, who has been dragging them along for the past week at gunpoint, heaps verbal abuse and threats on them, and occasionally shoots at them, and he's been making nice with her. She's probably the biggest reason they don't want to go (along with, 'they have no stake in it', and 'sounds like another suicide mission').
He just expected them to help him deal with the Director. You make it sound like a plan with them taking bullets for him was the only one he would have entertained.
They're a bunch of badly trained soldiers with terrible planning skills and he wants them to draw out as many enemy soldiers in what is likely a heavily fortified bunker meant to protect a man who has demonstrated a willingness to do whatever it takes to achieve his goals. It's not that Church wanted them to get shot at, it's that the only alternate plans anyone's offering is 'have Washington at their backs while they get shot at', which Carolina shot down, and 'GTFO', which Carolina almost literally shot down.
Believe me, I understand. I have literally been on every possible side of that situation. But those experiences are what inform my opinion that Church's reaction was both unhealthy and unreasonable. Again, no one's saying he has to be happy about what happened in the past — but those things aren't happening anymore, and they've been more than atoned for. And even if they were still happening, blowing up like he did still wouldn't help anything. There's a world of difference between "You're a terrible person and I hope you die in a fire" and "I'm tired of your bullshit, so get on board or tormget out of the way".
I don't mean to be insensitive to your situation, but Church wasn't exactly bullied by the Blood Gulch guys. They were in a (pretend) war with each other. Why wouldn't they take every available chance to attack and sabotage the enemy? And if I recall correctly, Church gave as good as he got.
I would disagree. While these are the same people who saved him from death, it wasn't their idea to do so. It was yet another example of them being forced into something, while Church just gets yanked along as a Cosmic Plaything. Nobody is gonna disagree that Church and Carolina's plan was shitty to the Reds and Blues but that doesn't obviate the fact that his anger is pretty justifiable. As far as issues go though, this is a guy who's birth began with torture, and just a few episodes ago talked Carolina into letting go of the past with Tex. He's clearly capable of letting go of the past. Perhaps it's due to no facial emoting or the at times limited range of the voice actors, but aside from Grif (who comes across as convincingly pissed), everyone else just seems (to me, obviously YMMV) more annoyed than hurt, and that turns the emotional context of it around, from less of someone unwilling to acknowledge Character Development as someone else tired of dealing with people who continually and intentionally aggravate him. Obviously whenever you interpret an emotional scene like that, a lot of it is going to be inferred context due to the limitations of the format and personal history. Jerkass Has a Point at the minimum here though.
Except... The part where they were "forced into" rescuing Church: I think Episode 18 is an excellent example of how no one really forces the Reds to do anything. Sarge even said "busting into a military base on a rescue mission is a lot of fun." (Go Reds!) Besides, even if they were coerced into saving Church, the fact still remains that their lives were risked because of him.
Screaming "You're all just problems I have to deal with!" isn't Jerkass Has a Point, though. It's just straight-up Jerkass. The alternate title for this episode could easily be "Could've Handled That One Better".
He could have, yes, but that doesn't mean he was wrong to not do so and have a, well, "human" reaction. It's not reasonable to expect people who are justifiably angry and upset to simply toss it aside and be nice. I'm dubbing it the Noble Victim Fallacy.
Um... since when is Church a "villain?" It's been noted that he was a jerk, but no one's saying he's evil or anything. Besides, all the things he listed in that rant happened during the Red vs Blue "war." No one's obligated to be nice to each other during a war. Actually, ever since Reconstruction (or as early as Season 3 if you wanna count the Omega incident), as soon as the guys had common ground, they've teamed up and supported each other. In season 9, they even banded together to protect Church. In season 10, they risked their lives to rescue him. I've said it before, it's not "how could you say such things, Church" it's "how could you continue to hold these things against us after all we've been through together?"
You're forgetting that Tucker, Caboose, and Wash were included into that equation. You're also forgetting that Church was unconscious or otherwise not present for a lot of those revelations; we as the audience have knowledge he doesn't. And that Church didn't even want to be rescued in Season 10 to begin with. The guy's been through a lot, and now that he's finally on the verge of getting some closure... everyone's abandoning him. It would be abnormal if he didn't finally snap and go off. This rant has been a lot time coming for Church. This kind of reminds me of my query above about Washington being painted as a villain, too, now that I think of it. I think we get so used to laughing at the BGC's casual jerkassery that we forget the series is switching to showing how people would react if they really had to deal with it.
I guess my thing with Church is, should he ideally let it all go? Yes. But is he obligated to, in the sense of being a horrible person or even deserving criticism if he doesn't? Nope. You're never obligated to be nice to people who treated you poorly, especially when you consider most of the times they treated him decently he either didn't know about or didn't want for whatever reason so you can't even claim that. The Fridge Logic just doesn't work. Maybe he'll learn to let it go, for his own sake, but the dude isn't in the wrong for being angry and upset.
Seriously, any of the guys had good reason to rant at each and one of the others. Sarge: "You possessed my body without permission, caused me to get shot in the head, spit on my visor, stole my robot and caused him to turn against me, and didn't even have the good grace to kill Grif during the whole war!" Grif: "I routinely get pulverized by my own team, humiliated by the Blues, been run over, been demoted, been to prison, and Tucker slept with my sister!" Wash: "Don't even get me started..." And they do bitch and moan at each other. But Church said it with conviction. It's the difference between siblings saying "you suck, asshole!" and saying "I hate you," while being utterly serious.
It was probably more a whole not what he said but how he said it situation. Church bitching at them about how they ruined his life is nothing new, Church getting huge and calling them out on every little detail with conviction, perhaps being right actually in most cases, and also being more than just pissed off but actually angry is another thing. However on the whole Church being seen as a villain thing, I don't think he was ever portrayed that way, just too angry to control what and how he was talking to his friends. Even if he was right in what he was saying it doesn't mean he was right in what he said.
People who do think Church is a villain for what he said seem to overlook the fact that he would have probably on their side a few hours ago, since he gave Carolina the advice on how terrible it is to be chasing ghosts forever, but something a few minutes ago changed that. Church remembers everything now, everything torture situation that the Alpha was put through, what drove Epsilon insane when he was first in Washington, it's understandable that he is really angry, but more than anything he's most likely having a mental breakdown and lashing out in anger from what he perceived as his friends abandoning him was the last straw and broke the camel's back.
So, to summarize: Did Church cross a line? YES. Is he an unforgivable asshole who deserves to be hated? NO. Do we still love him? YES! (sound good?)
I like it.
Is it just me, or does North have an Angst? What Angst? moment in Episode 18? He causally mentions that they were removing all the AI's (and we know from Out of Mind that they were deleting the AI's), and he doesn't seem at all upset about little Theta and his skateboard.
North still has Theta, remember, so he might be lying a little to hide that fact.
If I remember correctly, during Recovery One and the early portions of Reconstruction, nobody really knew who was killing Freelancers and stealing their AIs... but the Director, Counselor, and Tex were all witnesses to Agent Maine ripping out Carolina's AIs and tossing her off a cliff. It could be explained away by the Director covering it up, but why wouldn't Tex tell anyone at Blood Gulch about the psychotic supersoldier? Or Hell, why wouldn't Project Freelancer inform its Agents (especially South and Wash Recovery One) that Maine was responsible? And as a side note, why didn't Maine actually attack any other Freelancer until after the Blood Gulch Chronicles ended?
Tex would have no reason to mention Agent Maine to the Blood Gulch crew. He wasn't involved in any of the events they were and would have no reason to go, "Oh by the way Agent Maine has gone crazy and is stealing AI's. Just thought you should know that." As for the agents, this is Project Freelancer. They never tell anyone anything. Remember in Season 9, they refused to give information about the Sarcophagus despite knowing what they were after, which complicated the mission greatly. They operate on the strictest need to know basis and don't tell anything that could put them at risk or cause any type of information leak. Even if it put the agents in great danger The Director won't tell them anything.
Another theory: Director and Co don't know Maine = Meta. They were pretty far away when it happened and just saw a hulking silhouette throw Carolina off the cliff. At that point, only Tex knew.
By the time of Reconstruction, it sounded like they were 75% sure it was him, but lacked confirmation until he was wounded and his recovery beacon went off.
Awesome as Episode 19 was, it seemed to leave some gaps in storytelling. Last we saw York, he was still cuddling faithfully with Carolina. How'd he go from that to "siding with the enemy?" We saw North have one civil conversation with Tex after Carolina's implantation. How'd he go from that to trusting Tex so much that he'd turn against lil' sis? Men... they're like the wind.
I can't speak for York, but as for North ... he's a smart guy, he's observant and he knows his sister better than she knows herself. Tex spent this season becoming less and less of a psycho bitch, while South has been hurtling headlong in the other direction. Therefore, his decision may have been based less on Tex's behavior and more on South's — he saw a chance to pull her aside and have a heart-to-heart, and he took it.
York and North also may have been influenced by their AIs — which would explain why Wyoming was still very much an antagonist.
We know that at least a few days passed between episodes 17 and 18. Between then, Tex could've showed them everything in the data files - more than enough proof for them to turn on the other Freelancers.
Yeah, I guess a lot of stuff could have happened between then and now, but the thing is, we don't see any of it. I guess what really bugs me is York. He went from being Carolina's loyal supporter to her rival's partner in crime with nothing in between. His whole "come with us, we can help you, blah blah" speech to her in Episode 19 seems so... shallow? I mean, why would she listen to him? For all she knows, he defected from the Project, betrayed her on an emotional and professional level by teaming up with Tex, waltzed right back as an enemy, and then expects her to follow him because he said so. I sure as hell wouldn't be in a hurry to fall into his arms. Did he show her any evidence that PF was crooked? Did he try to convince her to join them before, but she refused? Did he even voice his concerns about the nature of the AI's to anyone but his bros? I realize long drawn-out drama scenes take up too much time, but a simple "I've tried to convince you before, and I'll do it again," or a "I've shown you the evidence and you wouldn't believe me, so you've left me no choice," during that conversation would've more than sufficed.
Just because he has romantic feelings for Carolina doesn't necessarily mean he has to be fanatically loyal to her. It doesn't take a genius to see that PF's policies are slowly turning Carolina into a psychotic bitch like South. Not to mention all the previous drama such as the AI incidents could have further shaken his beliefs in PF's purpose.
But the thing is, he was loyal enough to risk fighting her to take her away, but somehow not loyal enough to give her a good reason. That whole heartfelt conversation in the elevator was heartbreaking, but it seemed so pointless. After "come with me, we can help you, trust me, blah blah" my first reaction was "Um... why?" Like I said before, we don't see him ever explain himself or show her evidence, or even try to convince her while not in the middle of an exploding elevator. That goes for Tex too. She's the one with the data files. Does she share with the class? Nope, it's "you can't beat me neener neener... but you can join me." What kind of reaction was she expecting?
"Hey Director, can we put the fight on hold while I give a four-part presentation with slides and charts? Thanks babe, you're a peach." Seriously, there wasn't time. "Trust me" translates here to "I promise I'll explain everything when I'm not being shot at." Plus, when your arch-rival says your beloved leader is actually a villain — and she knows this through a traitor you killed together — there's really no way to express that well in a short amount of time. Any explanation short enough to fit the schedule would be far too short to be convincing.
It's not that he didn't give a good explanation at that very moment. It's that we see nothing of York's transition from "loyal cuddlebug" to "ship-destroying defector." And because we don't see anything of that transition, and what he did during the time between Episodes 17 and 19, it's as if he just hooked up with Tex and left Carolina behind without so much as a "KTHXBAI," then walzted right back in and expected her to follow him just cuz. Again, a simple retroactive allusion would've been just fine. "Hey honey, you know all that stuff I said to you before I did all that other stuff, to make you believe me about that other stuff? Do you still not believe me about that stuff? Ok... then you leave me no choice. Let's rumble."
Okay, about the "loyal cuddlebug" thing — he was still loyal to Carolina. That's why he tried to talk to her instead of just bringing the beatdown. Carolina is the one whose loyalties changed — York was no longer loyal to the Director, so she was no longer loyal to him. Also, I get the feeling he left before she woke up, and this was the first he'd seen her since the Allison Incident.
But... that's the whole problem! If this is the first time he's seen her since the implantation, then she'd have absolutely no reason to trust or believe him! From her perspective, he stabbed them all in the back! Her angry/hurt "Why are you helping her?" was completely genuine. If that's the case, then how did he expect her to react? And the most vexing part? He doesn't even answer her question! And the second most vexing part? We're supposed to believe that he genuinely tried to save her and she was the Tragic Hero who refused to be saved.... when his attempt to convince her was the worst case of Poor Communication Killsever. Of all time.
Actually, someone on the main page said it best: Poor Communication Kills. Instead of making vague, nonsensical comments for her to trust them, both Tex and York could've said "Hey, the Director's a huge liar who lies. We've got hard evidence that proves it." Whether or not she'd listen is another matter, but at they at least could've given her that much.
Or maybe deep down, they knew that whatever they said to Carolina wouldn't work. It would be Tex's word against the Director's, and Carolina trusts the Director far more than Tex.
But, there's a difference between "She didn't listen" and "She wouldn't have listened." Which is where the Headscratcher comes in. The series, especially Episode 12, is making it seem like Carolina refused to listen to reason, letting her pride bring about her own downfall. Which is fine, but in the penultimate scene in Episode 19, that's not how it really went down.
See, it makes sense that she didn't immediately trust him, but it also makes sense that she should've known better than to think York was a traitor out of the blue. Seriously, think about it - she looked to him as a friend and equal, and probably some level of love interest. Isn't it weird that she didn't think, "Well, he knows how I feel about this Tex bitch, and he's not the kind of person to just turn on his comrades like this without a REALLY good reason. Maybe I ought to hear him out." And really, she probably would have had those exact thoughts - if she weren't blinded by the green haze of envy at that particular moment.
In Episode 19, Tex storms the Mother of Invention and finds Alpha, who is in a confused and broken state. They have a heartbreaking exchange and she leaves. But why? He didn't remember her, he couldn't remember his own name, yes... but why leave him there? The whole point was to come get him. She could've turned him into the authorities, or some legit, non-crazy scientists other than the Director to try to fix him. Why leave him there to suffer who-knows-what-else?
So ... kidnap him? He was unwilling to leave, there wasn't time to convince him, and trying to take him against his will would probably have caused more problems than it solved.
What's the point of having Simulation Outposts after the events of Episode 19? Connie's dead, Carolina's 'dead', the Mother of Invention has crashed, Maine's gone rogue, York's gone rogue, Tex has gone rogue, and North has gotten into a heated fight with his fellow Freelancer (I don't think he'll be punished since South was the only person he fought, and he's shown to have been working for the Project in Recovery One). That leaves the Dakotas, Wash, and Wyoming as the only Freelancers left in the project. Why put them into training simulations?
Remember, there are 49 Freelancers (many of whom are unseen), and only 7 are KIA, MIA, or rogue so far (Georgia, Utah, CT, Carolina, Maine, Tex, and York), so 42 are still in the program. More than enough to have reason to have simulation outposts.
Wyoming went rogue himself too; the same season has York mention so earlier. That leaves 3 Agents, and the rest apparently off panel. However, the future timeline isn't done yet, so we may well still see the implications of the mass defections on the Freelancer program.
Alternatively, no one cared. The sim troopers are just the useless waste of the UNSC so it's a good way to get rid of them and keep them out of their hair.
Okay, so way back in the first season, the Blue Team calls for a Freelancer, and they get Tex. Considering Tex went rogue, though, why would she have been sent? It's not like the Director would somehow find a rogue Freelancer and give them a new assignment considering what's recently happened. That'd be like looking for that guy who robbed you to help you with something.
Tex might have hijacked the signal from Vic.
Except Vic specifically says he's sending "Freelancer Texas", so there has to be more to it than just her intercepting the transmission and showing up on her own. Unless maybe she knew Alpha was there and fiddled with Vic's systems to put herself back on the active roster? Maybe the Director offered her amnesty for some reason? Maybe she blackmailed him into taking her back? Although given the way she interacted with Omega, my personal theory is that she somehow gets a memory reset in the intervening period, and then it wears off over the course of the BGC.
A few options. One, Vic's a Troll who did it for the lulz. Two, they didn't want any other Freelancers accidentally discovering Church was the Alpha so they decided to have the one who did stick with him, rogue or not. Three, Vic did that himself to keep up the masquerade.
Perhap's Vic is running off outdated information. He doesn't seem to operate with much oversight, and he is an AI, so maybe he's gone rampant without someone watching over him. He realises that Tex is in the area, decides to contact her, she goes along with it to get close to Church and keep an eye on him. Or maybe Omega just wanted her to kill everything.
A very simple Meta reason- the inital episodes were made long before any long-reaching plot was made, and the one about Tex still being a Freelancer is one of them.
This really doesn't count as a headscratcher because they haven't had the chance to explain it yet. If the Director recreated Tex, he was probably able to futz around with the other fragments, too.
The newest episode (21) heavily implies taht the Director fragmented Tex just as he did to Alpha in an attempt to get her right. Omega just spawned fro ma torture scenario. In fact, judging by the performance of the Tex bots, he's not even close to the original quality.
Per Church: "Tex once told me that she would've give anything to save you (Carolina)." So... absolutely anything, except anything useful? Like trying to convince her? Like sharing the data files with the rest of the class? Nope. Just storm the ship, beat her up, don't even bother telling her why you're there, but give a Big "NO!" as she's falling to her death. Y'know, for old times' sake.
Dammit, we've been over this. It's not stated outright, but it was heavily implied that Tex and York took off before Carolina woke up (or at least, soon enough after that there wasn't time to try and speak to her). Besides, if your greatest rival — the one who drives you to irrational, almost insane measures in your attempts to beat her — tried to show you files (that she got from a dead traitor) saying your leader/mentor/father figure is actually a villain, would you listen? Or would you rat her out to the higher-ups and ruin all her plans? Tex knew which choice Carolina would have made. "Useful", as you defined it, simply wasn't an option. End of story.
And before someone says "Why couldn't York do the explaining?", I repeat: It's not just the Who that makes the situation problematic. It's the What and the Where and the Why. And the How. And the When. Basically, there's just no way Carolina would have listened.
Worth noting is that Maine was an unexpected variable, and Tex most likely didn't count on his interference.
Ok, I know it's supposed to be Rule of Cool... but how did Maine manage to get that tattoo? I can't imagine him asking any of his coworkers to do it for him. I especially can't imagine him going to a random tattoo parlor and growling instructions at them until they got it right. And how would he tattoo the back of his own head? And no way would I ever believe that it's a temporary, the kind that you lick and stick on.
He could draw or print out a copy of the design, then shove it at a tattoo artist and growl until they got the idea.
Maybe in the future, if you eat enough Fruit Roll-Ups they give you a voucher for a real tattoo? And it comes with the design like the lick-and-sticks, but you have to have your parents sign the permission slip first. Or, you know, just growl a lot.
Well, let's be honest. If Maine and Sigma come up to you saying Maine wants a tattoo, are you REALLY going to say no to him? He probably did get a coworker to do it.
So by this point, I feel confident asking: Just what the heck did happen to Washington? So far, there's been no connection between the loveable cuddly naif in the flashbacks and the not-quite-as-grim-as-he-used-to-be antihero in the present day. Unless something's going to happen in the last episode of the season (or at least gives us a hint that there's more flashbacky goodness to come at some point), it seems incomplete.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by a connection between those times because we have clearly seen Wash change over the course of the show. He started out very naive and innocent until Epsilon gave him the horrible memories that warped him to become bitter and revenge driven until the kindness of the Reds and Blues caused him to gain real friends and give up on his revenge. If you mean the scene in 17 where he still seems the same versus him in Recovery One doesn't make sense, then it is quite possible he hasn't sifted through all of Epsilon's memories at that point and in too much confusion to really process everything.
That's exactly what I mean. Sifting through those memories seems like too important a piece of character development to leave off-screen. I'll be unpleasantly surprised if we don't see at least a hint of it during the last episode. Otherwise, Wash's on-screen chronology will go straight from "a little confused but otherwise fine" to "Recovery One". It feels like there should be a middle step between those two.
He's also yet to see Project Freelancer completely fall apart, which could be what also triggers his aloofness because similar to Carolina, he becomes conditioned not to trust any of his squadmates.
You're probably better off waiting until the season ends, or waiting until next season. I know RT said the prequel would end in season 10, but they say a lot of things.
Yeah, I know. *closes eyes and claps hands* I do believe in Roosterteeth! I do believe in Roosterteeth! I do believe in Roosterteeth!
It's pretty clear that, as of S 10 E 21 Carolina has a Super Speed upgrade but... how? Did Maine not take her upgrade(s) when he took her AIs? If so, then where did he get the Camouflage upgrade?
She may have gotten it the same place Grif got it that one time when he was hoping for invisibility, since she backtracked to all the Freelancer bases the BGC had visited in previous seasons.
The Meta may have only taken one of her upgrades. She hasn't been seen to use camouflage in the current timeline.
I'm going to go with the "got another one"... hell, she may have taken Grif's old one since we never do see him remove it, maybe he just never activated it again. Wouldn't make sense for the Meta to take just one, and leave (of all things) Super Speed and keep only Camouflage.
Also remember that Tex had camouflage at one point too, it's possible that Meta looted it off her corpse when he took Tex herself way back in the beginning of season 6 and that Carolina had nothing to do with it.
Tex had Camouflage? I only remember her having Invisibility (which is different).
Camouflage and invisibility have very little differences, I noticed. If we want to be really specific, Meta had Tex's invisibility, it wasn't camouflage. Church even yelled "that thing can go invisible!?" back in season 6 and it's possible that taking armor enhancements wasn't a thing Meta wanted to do until later.
They're... really different. And it's clear that he does have Camouflage, not just Invisibility. So it's entirely possible that he took them both and she just got another Super Speed, he didn't take either and got another Camouflage from someone else he killed, or, for some unfathomable reason he just took Camouflage.
... and Camouflage is? But I do think it's entirely possible that the Meta simply hadn't decided to take equipment yet (Sigma only seemed obsessed with getting AIs, and probably only decided to add equipment to make this easier), and he just got a Camouflage from someone else.
Texas has invisibility/Camouflage; Carolina has "Chameleon," which lets the user change the color of their armor (The Meta used it to impersonate a Blue Team soldier in Season Six, Carolina used it to blend in with the walls and Insurrectionist Troopers in Season Nine). It's another one of those subtle Always Second Best comparisons between her and Tex.
(Epsilon) "What comes next... Carolina and I need to do alone." What about Wash? I mean, okay, he (questionably) didn't go through as much shit as Carolina because of the Director, but still... He has plenty of reasons to go and confront him along with Carolina and Epsilon. I understand why Epsilon would allow the Reds and Blues to sit "what comes next" out, but why exclude Wash too?
I guess Wash has decided to let go of his grudge against the director. Both he and the rest of the Blood Gulch crew only came along to make sure Church and Carolina survived.
There's also the fact that Wash now identifies more as part of the Blood Gulch group than as a Freelancer.
In light of The Reveal, Carolina wanting to face the Director alone makes perfect sense.
Don't know if this technically counts as a Headscratcher, but, with some of the revelations in the last ep of Season 10, thinking about all the dynamics between the AIs, Tex, and Carolina now makes my head hurt. (Also: is she Theta's "sister"?) Her flirting with Church and some of the flirty overtones of the way she acted towards the Director doesn't help either.
In light of The Reveal, Carolina's relationship with the Director becomes less "flirty" and more "Daddy, will you please pay attention to me?" As for Epsilon, everyone considers him a separate entity, so that doesn't really make much difference.
How did Church leave behind his sniper rifle at the end of Season 10's finale? Being an AI/hologram and all.
Rule of Cool. Besides, Carolina could've placed the rifle there.
So, I got the general implication that Florida was simply discharged and the Noodle Incident was harmless, but someone else said that they blew up the actual state. what really happened? I don't think that they really blew up Florida, since that would be a true violation of protocol...
It seems pretty likely that they somehow destroyed the entire state. It was shown on the screen behind the Counselor during their conversation.
I don't buy it. I think it was likely that the screen was just symbolic: to destroy the actual state would require some big nukes (something I doubt the Director had at his disposal), and the Director would have his hands full with questions concerning the Florida Incident rather than the torture of the Alpha AI.
Ah ha, but the Counsellor said he would "take care of it". He was there to get his hands dirty when the Director couldn't, and to make sure they both came away smelling like roses.
It's ambiguous. For all we know, that could've been the scenario that they merely told the simulation troopers and Freelancers what happened to Florida. Massive misinformation to the people who only have contact with the outside world through them seems a lot more plausible than destroying a state.
And there's also the fact that Project Freelancer still answers to the UNSC. They're under strict supervision by the Oversight Committee (which immediately disbanded PF the second they heard they were doing illegal research) and they don't even have the resources to get more than one AI. It doesn't seem plausible that they could get enough equipment to destroy state, much less get away with it.
And don't forget that it is far in the future. Destroying a state is probably easier, and requires much less equipment in the 25th century. Especially one that's surrounded by water on 3 sides.
Given the level of technology seen in RVB it doesn't really seem like Freelancer has enough technology has enough technology to destroy a state and completely get away with it scot-free. Even if they could pull it off, they're not held accountable for it. I think that the Oversight Committee wouldn't give a rat's ass about the Alpha if he were pursuing the guys that destroyed Florida.
As much as I loved the callback to Florida and the return of Butch Flowers how does "destroying Florida" (either literally or by just telling those involved in Project Freelancer that it's been destroyed) explain the disappearance of Agent Florida? The purpose of hiding the Alpha at Blood Gulch was, more than anything else, hiding him from the Freelancers. So yes, the lack of Florida would explain the lack of Agent Florida to those outside the organization... but Tex, York, North and everyone else already know Agent Florida. They wouldn't think that, by destroying the state, that means that the Agent never existed, they met the guy.
They could just said that he was coincidentally killed in action, probably by saying he happened to be in Florida at the time.
... then what's the point of saying Florida's destroyed?
To explain why they don't replace him. Also there are 50 states in the Union, but we don't see anywhere close to that number. Half the people who met Agent Florida are either dead, on the run, or otherwise not inclined to care too much. However it's made clear from dialogue that not all the Freelancers know each other (since Wash doesn't know what happened to Georgia), so there'd be plenty of them who wouldn't have known that there was an Agent Florida, and thus if they ever asked about it they can just say that they decided against assigning one in the aftermath of Florida's destruction.
I'm sorry, but none of that explanation holds up. "To explain why they don't replace him" doesn't really... matter. They're covering up the loss of one Agent, it doesn't matter whether he's replaced or not. And as for those people "on the run"... they are exactly the ones that he's trying to hide the Alpha from. York definitely met him, along with North (who is a bit of a wild card). Wyoming and Carolina as well, but they're not terribly related (we don't know the specifics of Wyoming going rogue, and Carolina is presumed KIA).
Ok, now that the season is over and I know there isn't going to be anything else revealed about the Freelancers: Why exactly does Connie consider Tex her "friend?" Why does she trust Tex the most, enough to leave behind the files to no one else but her? We never even see them interact! And if CT knew what Tex was, wouldn't she trust her the least?
Connie trusts Tex to save Alpha because she knows that Alpha is someone Tex loves. As for calling Tex a friend, I guess she was just a really Nice Girl. Which just makes her death all the more tragic.
Plus she knew Tex was an AI, meaning that Tex would have the most reason for rebelling against the Director.
Am I the only one hugely unsatisfied with the way we left North and South? I wanna know what happened! And how that led to the post-mortem scene in Recovery 1!
Word of God is that they didn't answer absolutely everything in seasons 9-10 because they wanted to leave room for future stories. North and South is probably one of those.
The post-mortem scene in Recovery 1 was years later... I couldn't reasonably expect them to introduce a third time period just to cover one Noodle Incident.
According to the main page, there's a Stinger for people who sit through the credits on Blue-Ray that shows North complementing South on their fight. God only knows if non-blue ray users will ever see it, though.
Not really sure where to ask about this so forgive me if this is in the wrong section, but does anyone mind telling me what the after credits sequence on the blu-ray is? Me and quite a few others won't be able to get our hands on the blu-ray and our others attempts at finding out have failed.
In no particular order:
We see a UNSC dock for spaceships. A green armored guy with a jet pack careens through space. We discover from his rather casual conversion with Agent Utah after he collides with a station window that he's Agent Georgia.
Doc packs for the trip, but took too long and was left in Valhalla. The pilots whom the BGC stole the planes from don't seem to have a problem with him, so he'll be fine.
North carries South out of Freelancer command, complementing her on their fight. They resolve to keep an eye out for each other, which we know won't work out.
Carolina walks back into Club Errera. She's actually out of her armor, so we don't know where Church is.
The live action Allison clip. This one also plays after the credits of episode 22 on the website.
Are any of these on the regular DVD?
Yay! *starts throwing money*
Indeed. Is it sad I want it just for the North/South scene? North is so sweet (as much as anyone in RvB can be) it's almost painful.
Why wasn't Caboose in the Back-to-Back Badasses scene in season 10, episode 21? He was there and fighting, yet he was left out of the circle that formed near the end of the fight, which had everyone else.
For most of the fight, he was running around and rampaging in the background. It's possible that he was still fighting on the outskirts - something actually useful, since it would mean less Texes for the rest of the crew to have to handle. Also, you can't exactly pull a Back-to-Back Badasses when you're rampaging.
Wouldn't Wyoming's Time Repeating Ability have come in handy during their conflicts with the Insurrectionists?
yes, yes it would. However; RT pretty pretty much flat out stated that Wyoming is nothing more than a joke character to them so even when he is doing something important, it's going to end up being a joke in the long run.
That's not an excuse to completely forget something that was supposed to be such a huge obstacle to killing Wyoming in Season 5 and The Meta in Season 6.
Still though, even just a hand wave as to why they aren't using it would've been fine. Every other line of Season 10 was a reference anyway.
I think that the Director didn't successfully develop the time unit within the flashbacks shown. At least that's how I wrote it off.
Some of the armor power abilities are very difficult, if not outright impossible, to use without an AI to help run them. It's stated several times that it's a miracle that North was able to use his enhancement without killing himself. Time/space manipulation would certainly be complex. So, maybe Wyoming can't use his ability without Gamma, and he didn't get Gamma until fairly late in the season, when all the insurrectionist battles were over.
Where did the Reds, Blues, and Carolina get the new armor (from Halo 4)?
they probably found it in the base or stole it when they were leaving the Director's hideout and just didn't put it on until later. i wouldn't think too hard about it.
The armor fairy brought it, just like when they switched over from Halo to Halo 2.
It's stated by Wash in episode 1 that the ship they were on crashed on the way back to U.N.S.C space. They probably were reequipped with the latest armor after they were picked up.
Why is the second verse in Now That We've Come So Far in Japanese? I can't think of a single reason.
This troper cannot think of a single cool reason for that.
Why is Rooster Teeth making a Season 11? Everything's been wrapped up in a way that every still living character has a satisfying conclusion, and the only plot holes left are nitpicks that can be explained through example of Rule of Funny, Rule of Cool, or sketchy info source. Any sequel they make would really come off more as a spin-off or cash-in rather than a conclusion, like with what happened to the Mega Man X series.
The main reason is because people keep wanting it. Although there are some loose threads, mostly concerning the often overlooked season 7 and insurrectionist activity. They'll either go back to that or turn it into the carolina and epsilon show.
Just because they wrapped up the current plot arc doesn't mean they can't start a new one. They spent the last five seasons digging into the past; why not spend the next five investigating the future? There's all kinds of places they could go from here.
Exactly. As Burnie has said time and time again, if we keep watching it, they'll keep making it. Though Rv B has taken a turn for the "awesome" in recent years, it's not some pristine artistic endeavor to just be finished up and sit. The RT staff have fun making it, and will probably continue to do so for a long time to come.
Why'd they make a season 6? Season 5 had a pretty well wrapped up ending—the villains were all (sort of) dead, the status quo had been regained, there was nowhere else to go. The answer is that there really was more story to tell and there really were more questions to answer (especially about Tex/Church's natures and the Freelancers); similarly, at the end of season 10, although seasons 6 through 10 have been wrapped up, we still have many questions left unanswered about the Fauxurrectionists/Charon Industries, the aliens, the artifacts, and who knows what else!
I'd say that's a bit different. Season 5 ended with the cliffhanger of what really happened to Tex along with several new story elements being introduced at the very end (like the implication that the drama at Blood Gulch was far bigger than any of the main characters knew). Season 10 on the other hand, wrapped up things pretty well; we got a satisfying resolution to the story of Tex, all heroes and villains accounted for, etc. Having said that though, I can definitely see RT taking the story elsewhere. They still have the alien subplot that never really got resolved, and there's about 20-30 unaccounted for Freelancer Agents out there somewhere (assuming they used all 50 states, which it's possible they didn't since they didn't use all the Greek letters).
Why wouldn't they? Rv B pretty much made them famous, they seem to enjoy making it, and people are still watching it and clamoring for more.
If Church is based off the Director, why do they sound nothing alike?
Probably to make him easier for the Director to work with. It'd be weird if the sentient computer you used every day sounded exactly like you.
Why is Conneticut portrayed as a good character, and Tex is portrayed as bad/psychotic to kill her? Even with the hindsight of CT being a a good guy who was trying to put the Director away, it doesn't change that by that point, CT had tried to kill all the freelancer agents (or ally herself with people who were trying to kill them, which is just as bad).
CT was trying to get away and minimize casualties on both sides. Tex was in the opposite frame of mind.
Just what the hell is the Director's motive for everything? During season 6, it seems he wants more AI for legitimate military reasons for purpose of saving humanity from the Covenant (admirable, if morally gray). However, during season 10, it's strongly implied that the Director was actually more concerned in trying to bring Allison back to life. That makes no sense though. How does driving the Alpha insane and making a whole bunch of different AI from him affect bringing Allison back? In addition, if his goal was that he wanted Allison back he more or less had that right off the bat when Tex (or Beta) showed up.
I don't think bringing back Alison was his one goal in all of his life. He did indeed want to protect humanity against the Covenant. In the season six finale he mentions that he never had the chance to serve as a soldier and I think, in some ways, he kind of regretted that. Especially considering he probably always compared himself to Alison, who presumably was just as good a soldier as Tex was. He also said in the finale, that his memories of Alison have become more painful as he's grown older, so he may have been able to put the thought to one side, at least for a time. Also remember in season eight, when Epsilon remarks that he couldn't get Tex out of his head, so he literally had to create a new version of her. Maybe once the Director had created Beta, he was able to put it behind him and focus on Project Freelancer. Once Tex went rogue, he couldn't stop thinking about her again and had to make a new A.I of her. Torturing the Alpha to make fragments was less about recreating Tex and more about trying to equip his Freelancers as much as possible.
At the end of Season 10, we see Church and Carolina standing over the same valley in Season 11, watching the Reds and Blues. Carolina then says she's taking off for some new adventures. If it's the same valley, then that means Carolina was shipwrecked along with Wash and co while being shipped home. So if she was able to leave, then why are the rest of them staying around to be rescued?
It'll probably be explained as the season goes on. Maybe they weren't actually traveling in the same ship: Carolina and Church could have been shadowing the others; they saw the crash, landed to investigate, saw that the guys were fine, and then took off without letting them know they were ever there (which would make the rifle a really messed-up "hey, sorry we missed you" note). Sneaking around and spying, even for benevolent reasons, isn't exactly out of place for these people.
Unfortunately that doesn't quite work. At the end of season 10 both Caboose and Tucker were acting like Church was around and surprised when they couldn't find him. The other weird thing is that the end of season 10 seemed to imply they were going back to Blood Gulch. I know the Halo 4 map they're using doesn't really look like Blood Gulch, but that's the impression I got. So either there's been a retcon or maybe they originally did go to Blood Gulch and were immediately picked up by the UNSC and crash landed in this new canyon that ust happens to look kind of similar.
Maybe the means of escape (shuttles or whatever) could get them off planet, but only to relatively hostile territory. Carolina has no interest in going "home", but the other guys do, so it makes more sense for them to wait.
They just reused the map. In season 10 it was used as blood gulch, carolina and church left from blood gulch and the reds and blues were picked up from there. In season 11 they crash landed somewhere else entirely plot-wise they just used the same map.
I never thought that the place the Reds and Blues were trapped in was Blood Gulch, since I find it doesn't look very familiar (then again, I haven't played Halo 4's Blood Gulch), so I thought that they were picked up from Blood Gulch and crashed somewhere else completely. And even if it was the Blood Gulch map, the fact that they had to establish new bases means it definitely is not Blood Gulch in-story.
The end of Season 11 may answer this question while raising others: Carolina is giving orders to Locus.
She is, she & Epsilon recently found out about what is going on with the Blood Gulch Crew in Chorus and posing as Control to stop LOCUS from killing the one's he had captive and posing as one of them and then save the BGC from both LOCUS & Felix
Why does Agent Washington use his name when he contacts base for his SOS? Didn't he fake his death ?
He faked his death because he was facing imprisonment for destroying evidence of the Director's crimes. It could be that after season 10 Wash was able to recover some logs from Epsilon or something and finally cut a deal with the Chairman for his freedom.
Also, with the Director's death, the last of Project Freelancer died with him. There probably wasn't any more reason to waste resources imprisoning Wash.
Besides, getting a ship out there to arrest him is functionally identical to getting a ship out there to rescue them. It was probably a hail mary tactic.
"Cecy" notes that there are 16 "hostiles" in the canyon, to which Donut immediately notes there are 11 of them there. (Sarge, Simmons, Grif, Donut, Wash, Tucker, Caboose, Doc, Lopez 1.0, Lopez Dos.0, and Freckles). That leaves 5 empty slots. The scene then cuts to Blue base under attack by 4 hostiles, whom Freckles takes out. But then "Scout" shows up, shielding them from Locus's sniper shot. 4+1(Scout)+1(Locus) is 6 people, not 5. Math error?
Perhaps Felix was simply out of scanning range at the time the scan was made. After all, he only shows up at the very end of the firefight.
Or it could have been Locus. Remember, he has cloaking armor, so it's possible he may be able to keep himself out of scanning as well.
Not to mention that Lopez is just a head. CC probably didn't count him. It's even mentioned by Sarge.
When the AI's are all freaking out at the mention of "Allison" the engineer starts rocking a screeching inside the sarcophagus, why would it? It's not linked to the AIs any more.
So this has probably been answered by a Word of God at some point, but how did Tex and Church not realize that they were AI's before their respective Tomato in the Mirror moments? Unless they were somehow "possessing" human host bodies (which of course opens up all sorts of other questions) they had to have been running around in robotic bodies even prior to being "killed" in season 1 of BGC. Soooo...did neither of them ever bother taking off their armor and notice that they weren't wearing a meat-suit? Did the fact that they never had to eat, sleep, go to the bathroom, or otherwise do anything else remotely human not tip them off? The only real explanations seem to be that they somehow acquired real human bodies, had ridiculously over-designed robots, or were just plain morons.
They could well have been programmed not to question such things.
What happened to the quotes page for the series?
Why does nobody react whenever Epsilon either mentions or shows up with his AI memory buddys? Does Carolina know?
I assume they already know. in Season 8, the Epsilon version of Delta spoke to Grif, Simmons and Caboose. The Roosterteeth rule of exposition is generally that if one character learns something, assume they told the others at some point off screen.
From The Stinger of Season 12, Episode 19, is Meta dead or alive?
Good question. Wait until Season 13 to find out. My money is on no, it was brought up in the context of a Trophy Room, not a lab or research station.
It is a fair question because the ending of Season 12 didn't make it clear. My money is on yes, he is alive, because given the amount of punishment he was shown taking as both Agent Maine and the Meta, I find it hard to believe that falling off a cliff would kill him. Hell he got shot in the throat 10 times, and then was hit by a truck and he still survived that! As for his helmet being put in a trophy room, that doesn't necessarily mean that Meta is dead, they may have him captive and alive and the Chairman might decide to use him as a weapon against Chorus (though this is starting to go into WMG), but don't count him out quite yet. Not to mention characters in Red vs Blue have survived worse (such as the Insurrectionist soldier who was directly hit by a fucking MAC Round and only lost an arm!), so I'm just going to end this with a (paraphrased) quote from Grif. "You produce a corpse, and maybe I'll believe you when you say he's dead."
Also, Charon Industries is mentioned to be involved in cryogenics, besides being named after the ferryman of the dead. They might not be planning to bring Maine/Meta back, but if they decide to, they've got all the excuse they need for him being alive.
Probably not. Even if he did survive, there is really no point in bringing the Meta back at this point, as his arc is over. One of the many possibilities is that the Chairman wants to find out the secret of Maine's Nigh-Invulnerability and use it to create an army of Super Soldiers, starting with Locus and Felix.
Never underestimate the power of popularity. The Meta is considered to be one of the best villains in the show, and there is one more thing they can do with him: a redemption arc. He slowly overcomes the insanity wrought by Sigma and helps the BGC overcome Charon Industries. Though that probably belongs more in WMG...
Why does everyone (largely meaning Freelancers in the prequels) seem to think that Washington is not a terribly good agent? York even makes fun of him. I don't get it. He has displayed remarkable competence ("NOW can we go?" after single handedly taking down an aircraft, etc.), but more importantly— HE WAS ON THE LEADERBOARD! Heck, Florida and Wyoming weren't even on it. Yet Wash tells one of the BGC "I was mostly known for getting a grappling hook stuck to my crotch." This doesn't make any sense to me at all.
You're correct, Wash is extremely competent compared to the Reds and Blues and even most soldiers aren't as good as him, but compared to the Freelancers, he sucks. I mean, look at their fighting skills; the Freelancers are on par with the Spartans if not superior to them, whereas Wash doesn't show nearly the same amount of skill. They call him a bad field agent because compared to them, he is a bad agent, at least from their perspective. It's easy to understand, the Freelancers aren't exactly the most mature people despite their profession and they make fun of Wash because it makes them feel better about themselves. Wash is always low on the leaderboard, but he's there because he just cares about getting the job done. Oh and Wyoming has been shown to be on the leaderboard.