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Headscratchers: Arrow
  • Why doesn't Oliver use his voice changer all the time? Pre-island, he was on the news all the time, and even more post-island, and on top of that, his parents confer with multiple businessmen and -women, so don't you think more of them would know his voice?
    • He does use it most of the time; in fact, I can't think of any time he didn't use it when talking to anyone.
      • Mostly true. However, early on, he didn't even use it when talking to Detective Lance (see ep.3 for example), y'know, his ex's (exes'? Too Soon?) father. How Lance, who by this time had previously seen the Hood's chin, didn't make the connection at this point, is anyone's guess (yeah, I know, see Clark Kenting and all, but still.). As for why he doesn't have it turned on all the time, hey, he already loses enough time putting on the suit and that damn eye makeup, if he knows it's not necessary, that's a few seconds that can help save someone's life.
      • An unshaven chin is hardly an uncommon characteristic. But, possibly Fridge Brillaince: Ollie wanted to leave small, unprovable breadcrumbs to make the police catch on, so he could then disprove them. He only did this around one officer, who had a personal vendetta against him, so it could be explained away by the police as Lance mis-remembering these details in order to convince himself that it was Oliver, as happens with real eye-witness testimony.
  • In episode 13 "Betrayal", when Oliver attacks Cyrus's house to rescue Laurel, Cyrus manages to capture The Hood (briefly) by counting that The Hood has 24 arrows and darts, and hires 25 mooks so that the last surviving mook can do the capturing. However, in the scenes where Oliver's attacking the house, there are a few scenes where The Hood takes out mooks by hand and doesn't use his arrows/darts. So how is it that he runs out by the end?
    • Maybe Vanch took into account the places where the Hood was the most likely to take out mooks in hand-to-hand and put a few extra mooks around the house. Also, he used at least two arrows that didn't connect with a mook (an explosive arrow to distract the snipers, and a flechette that was dodged)
  • Why is Ollie's mentor called Yao Fei? In the comics Yao Fei is the alias of Acomplished Perfect Physician of the Great Ten, a character with various psychic abilities and no known archery skills. If the Byron Mann character was named Xu Tao, he'd be the equivalent of Celestial Archer from the same team, which would make more sense.
    • Maybe they named him Accomplished Perfect Physician for his ability to whip up a miracle cure-all out of island vegetation? And then they needed someone to teach Ollie archery anyway, so they just decided to combine the two attributes.
    • It's possible Yao Fei isn't an expert archer, but just a decent one, and that Ollie learned expert archery from someone else, like Shado
    • "The Odyssey" reveals that Shado is Arrow!Yao Fei's daughter.

  • Ollie's Batman Gambit to exonerate himself from suspicion as the Hood is pretty thin. Nobody even suspects that someone as rich as Oliver Queen could hire or recruit an accomplice to make an appearance and give him an alibi? A detective as driven and antagonistic as Quentin Lance wouldn't explain that away?
    • Well, Ollie was already arrested on really thin charges. They had no proof, and he had an excuse for the footage they found of him. It was a lame excuse, but one that they couldn't prove false. So, once another Hood showed up, I guess they felt they had to let him go. Detective Lance was probably still suspicious, but he couldn't keep Ollie detained on his own suspicions.
    • And even if they suspected there might be an accomplice, they'd need proof of that too. Perhaps the most important part though is the idea of double jeopardy - by forcing them to arrest him on charges of vigilantism, this means unless the police can somehow come up with different charges or a charge of vigilantism that's different enough from the previous one, Ollie can't be arrested at all for that any more.
      • Double Jeopardy doesn't work that way. There are still plenty of cases of Vigilantism he has already committed that he can be charged with outside of that incident once they actually manage to prove its him. All Ollie really did was throw suspicion off himself.
    • Legal jeopardy only attaches when evidence is presented to a jury at trial and even then not always (in the US, at least). The only limitation to an investigation is that the police have to abide by the rules of evidence for anything they intend to present at trial and they can't violate your civil rights doing it. Realistically, the police should have simply backed off and kept watching Oliver until they accumulated more evidence.
      • It could be that Detective Lance's judgement was really clouded at the time, as Laurel had accused him of in that same episode. Though his suspicions of Oliver was correct, his bias could've made him jump the gun and act too soon.

  • If Malcolm Merlyn is the head of the conspiracy, or at least very high ranking in it, how come his name isn't in the book? I would assume that in five years Ollie would have read, if not memorized the entire thing, yet in "Dead to Rights" he leaps in to save him without any hesitation or even acknowledgement of Merlyn being on the list. He HAS to be on the list, but clearly he isn't or else Ollie would've brought that up by now, at the very least in this episode.
    • We still don't know very much about the conspiracy, or about the List. How do we know Malcolm didn't write the thing?
    • Also, Ollie burnt a few pages of the List to keep himself warm on the island, before he discovered the names on it, he might have burnt one where Malcolm's name appeared.
      • Even if he burnt any pages, he has a full copy he got from Felicity who got it from Walter.
      • That one ended up burnt too, thank you Moira. Dunno if Ollie had the sense to make a copy before talking to his mother.
      • Unlikely since he probably didn't think his mother would chuck it into the fire. Though that said, he may have written them into his computer system for easy reference.
      • More to the point, given that Moira also had a copy, and that the list was not written by his father, it seems likely that the list only includes people who were necessary to the Undertaking in some way, but were not the ringleaders.
      • The most recent episode shows that the Undertaking made the list as part of their original plan to save the city so their names would not be in it. Just names of those they were blackmailing because they were the city's worst, they were using those names to fund betterment projects for the city namely, the Glades. That was Plan 1.0, Plan 2.0 was nuke the Glades. The only reason Malcolm was worried about the Vigilante going after people from Plan 1.O is that eventually, just like he did, he would stumble upon Plan 2.0.
  • You don't get to captain of the Russian Mafia by being Mr. Hugs-N-Cuddles, and Ollie's injuries were well-documented. Wouldn't his having mob tattoos raise at least a couple of red flags?
    • One would imagine so. Perhaps this is why police suspicion fell on him to begin with. Once they realized he wasn't interacting with the Russians all that much (he does so twice in the first season and both times, it's mostly just talking), they might write it off as a rich kid doing stupid things to get a rush but nothing inherently illegal.
    • You're assuming that what a Russian Mafia tattoo looks like is public knowledge.
      • True. The only people who knew his physical condition at all were his physician and his family. While his mother may be aware of some details of the Russian mafia, she probably didn't know what their tattoos look like. The Doctor would likely assume they're merely tribal tattoos or tattoos he already had before the island rather than anything gang-related. The police likely didn't know much detail on his scars besides the fact he had some. Even if someone in law recognized he had a Russian Mafia tat, they would't think he was a high ranking member (as noted in series, its surprising that an American would be so high ranking in such).
    • Yeah, I'm calling snark on Laurel, she knew very well that Pre-island Oliver didn't have tattoos and she's seen his chest. With all of its scars. How the hell did she think her ex got tattoos? Even if there were tribal people there, those tattoos are not simple designs. He's got a freaking dragon on his back.

  • How did slapping water help him draw a bow?
    • The technique is actually used in Real Life by Shaolin Monks to hit harder in a fight. Since it's an explosive move, it would improve Island!Ollie's explosive strength, and strength in general. Only way it makes even some slight sense. If I were Shado, I would have reinforced Ollie via good ol' pullups and pushups (since you have to pull the string and push the bow, actual archery experts can correct me), but I guess the point was to give a more Oriental flavor to the training.
    • It also had the benefit of being a relatively simple exercise that didn't require much strength to begin with but would build up strength quickly.

  • For a tech savvy guy like Ollie, why is the code to his hidden lair 141?
    • Maybe he likes the number?
    • ThePasswordIsAlwaysSwordfish
    • Rewatching the pilot, I realized that the number of the bank account Arrow gave to Adam Hunt was 1141 (very close to the lair's code). One Googling later, I saw that Green Arrow's first appearance was in November 1941. I also found a few other interesting things, which might give a more symbolic meaning to the number and might be explained during island flashbacks for the in-story explanation, but for now I'd just roll with "Ollie's first appearance ever".

  • How did China White's wig cover her white hair? It should require a bald cap or something similar, but in this case, it's just a wig, and no bald cap is seen...
    • Perhaps the wig is designed with a baldcap, or something similar, built into it.
      • Just rewatched it. There could possibly be a bald cap attached to the wig, but from what I see, it doesn't look big enough.
      • Maybe it isn't a wig. It's probably (in-show; that's Kelly Hu's real hair, obviously) some form of dye that can easily be wiped out, and that's how she manages to lose it so easily.
      • No, we see her holding it in her hand. It's definitely a wig.

  • Why is Deadshot wearing his Eyepatch of Power on his dead eye? It's not shown to be some sort of implant, so how is he even using it?
    • Maybe the eyepatch projects something that gives his one good eye depth perception?
      • Wait... what? If it projects something, he could just attach it to his guns.
    • Actually, I got the impression that it was an implant of some sort.
      • When he fights Dig, it isn't glowing, so either he turned it off or he detached it. Due to how this show goes for realism, I doubt it's as easy as taking out and putting it in on a whim (it would have to be attached to his brain in order for him to make use of it). He could maybe have been wearing an eyepatch over it, but since Dig clearly punches him in that eye, even if it was an implant, that should have done something, but Deadshot barely reacts to it, and a fresh implant being punched would, I assume, hurt like hell.
      • Well at that point, its not really fresh, but it would probably still hurt. Best guess? The implant itself hurts a lot and he's taking pain meds of some kind to shrug that off, which also explains why he doesn't appear to be in much pain despite Dig giving him a good beating during their scuffle.

  • Ollie talking to Laurel: "Nobody in my life is who I thought they were, except you." What's Thea? Chopped liver?
    • IIRC, in one of the early episodes, he's pretty disapproving of Thea's clubbing and drugging habits. She later explains that she does that kind of thing to imitate him. So, perhaps he didn't believe Thea was that kind of person, at least until he got back from the island.
      • That said, she didn't get revealed to be a backstabbing, family-kidnapping, Glades-wrecking member of a conspiracy.
      • But she was still hiding her true self.
      • Kinda small potatoes, TBH.
      • But there is also Tommy, who didn't change at all. He just doesn't approve of Oliver's "hobby". To me this is just one of those lines writers put in to pretend that a character is somehow special in one way or another.
      • Thea going from a 12 year old innocent good kid to a 17 year old snarky, drug using liar would be a huge change for a big brother, Tommy, his best friend didn't even let him explain himself after he saved his father's life before he wrote him off. He assumed he was an evil murderer with no cause for what he did. Mind you, Oliver didn't explain, but you expect your best friend to go "Hold on, we need to talk about this and you need to tell me everything." I think it's more the fact he just wrote him off as a murderer without trying to find out why Oliver was doing what he was doing.
  • On a similar note, Ollie talking to Laurel: "You know me better than anyone." Yeah ok. Better than anyone apart from Diggle who knows about the hell you went through on the island. Or Felicity who is part of your top-secret, super-hero, secret-identity team. Or Tommy who knows about your killing sprees... Actually does Laurel know anything about you?
    • Above explanation; it was just some sappy line he thought he'd say to sound romantic. Ollie's already shown he's terrible with this stuff so he probably recited something that sounded good on TV.

  • Rewatching "Salvation", I was wondering: how did Ollie expect to hide his identity when saving the corrupt DA, assuming he found him before Falk killed him? From the looks of it, he couldn't shut down the lights and didn't keep his helmet on him, so...
    • Maybe Oliver wasn't thinking that far ahead? Or maybe he was thinking that, if he got there, he could shut off the camera and then take the guy out and free the DA.
      • Shutting off the camera would take care of the audience, Falk would probably fall under the "nobody can know my secret" policy, that doesn't take care of the DA.
    • If I recall correctly, Oliver didn't even have his bow with him, so he could've chalked it up (however flimsily) to his being at the right place at the right time.

  • The whole plan to take down airplanes to hurt the economy of China. Most goods are still transported by ship, not by airplane (for obvious reasons). Never mind that China is not an island, they are really not dependent on airplanes. It certainly would be a problem, but I really don't see it having such a big impact as they pretend it to be.
    • Fear goes a long way. In real life 9/11 kicked off a (mild albeit) recession in the US. I can easily see how taking down a few important planes, say with World Leaders perhaps even the Chinese leader on it could be problematic.
      • Apart from the fact that it would be fairly easy to track where the missile came from, there was also going to be a video of Yao Fe admitting responsibility as revenge for being sent to the island. So in real life there would have been a Chinese airstrike on the way to Lian Yu within a matter of hours of the first plane being shot down and then Fyers, all his men and his missile launcher would be dust. It was a ridiculous plan, but I suspect it was meant to be so and Fyers was merely a pawn being used in a bigger agenda.

  • The dying message of Tommy's, I'm lying in the gutter, dying, and nobody comes to help me. But I still have my phone. I get redialling the last number I used first, but I would I keep dealing it if I only end up at voice message instead of simply punching 911? I don't think so.
    • Who's to say she didn't call 911, and they just took their sweet time getting there? There's places in real life that paramedics and police officers don't touch out of fear of the locals, and the Glades could easily be like one of them.
    • Bear in mind that if she called 911 (likely), it still takes time for an ambulance to get there no matter how much they want to be there ASAP. Unless one was basically around the corner, a wait of 15 minutes wouldn't be unusual. Probably once she realized she might not have enough time left, she started calling.

  • Where the hell has Thea been living? Diggle said that she hasn't been living in the Queen mansion. So, she's been living with Roy. Except theres a 50/50 shot his place was destroyed in the Undertaking. So they both moved into Verdant. But then how did Felicity renovate the lair without them noticing?
    • Its entirely possible the family either owns an apartment in the city or Thea bought one or had Walter buy one for her. Or she could have been staying with him or Laurel.
    • Apparently she spends most of her nights sleeping at Roy's according to 2X05.

  • A little more added on to the "How does Thea not notice the Arrowcave?" thing. I can almost forgive her not going into the basement since the door was locked, she might have decided it wasn't worth the trouble. However, considering she is managing a bar on top of it, some clues should be sneaking through. For example, Felicity's computer equipment probably has high energy requirements, shouldn't she notice that her electricity bill is way too high? Even if she is some spoiled little rich girl whose concept of money is a little different than that of the average person, shouldn't she notice something eventually?
    • Felicity's computer equipment probably doesn't have particularly high energy requirements at all. It's not exactly a super computer and there's at least one computer if not more on site for keeping track of payroll, inventory and the like. AC and/or Heating would make it nearly impossible to catch something as small as a few computers added to a bill. We don't really know what other equipment is down there or how often it's running. Eventually can also be a very long time.
    • A better question might how many possible entrances are there to the Arrowcave? Has Thea never noticed Oliver and entourage either coming in and vanishing for hours on end or just kind of magically leaving when they'd never come in? A lot of this is easy to explain though if you accept that she's still distraught over Tommy's death, her mother's trial, finding out Her father is Malcolm Merlyn, getting kidnapped,the death of her mother and all her drama with Roy one could forgive her for not noticing that her bills were roughly the same as they always were. Remember electric bills don't come with itemization and the Arrowcave was there before Thea became the owner.

  • Why is Verdant still a popular nightclub? Its known to be owned by Ollie and Thea and clearly the city isn't drawing a distinction between them and their mother as evidenced by the reception Ollie got at the hospital, so why are people still going there night after night?
    • Probably because the young club going set doesn't really care who's providing their booze, so long as they're having a good time.

  • The Prosecution has to turn over all of it evidence in every state. So the ADA's "Trump Card" doesn't work, because if he didn't give it to the defense the charges would probably be dismissed. Oh, and coercion is not a legal defense for murder.
    • Umm, yes it is. Its called acting under duress, and while it's not one of the more popular defenses due to the intense grey area it creates, it can be very effective.
      • You can use duress for a excuse a number of things just murder in a court of law. here's the relevant quote from Wikipedia "However, duress is not a complete defense to all crimes. For example, the general rule, both at common law and today, is that duress is never a defense to murder; that is, one is never justified in killing another innocent person even if one's own life has been threatened." and the link
      • Considering that she is probably only being charged with everything because Malcolm Merlyn is "dead" and that she had not touched the device that caused the large amount of death, and she tried to warn the public, duress is probably a viable option and probably the only defense in this kind of scenario.
      • She did only aid Malcolm Merlyn, the plan wasn't her own and she tried to warn the Glades. If Malcolm was alive, she probably would have been charged with collusion and some other things, but not outright murder.

  • How is the Count not an incoherent mess capable only of babbling out word salad?
    • Its mentioned that he overcame his overdose at some point-which is why he was transferred from the mental hospital to Iron Heights Prison.
    • Also, part of his condition at the mental hospital may have been due to overmedicating as his doctor was using his kidneys as a How to Make Vertigo for Dummies guide. It's possible he came out of his overdose a while ago, and it just wasn't obvious because of what his doctor was giving him.

  • Quentin Lance - so you find out that your long dead daughter is alive, but has become a one woman army after being saved from the Queen's Gambit. Check. You also know that the Vigilante, the Arrow, is an ally of your daughter's. Check. You also know the Arrow has at least one accomplice. Check. You know that accomplice works at Queen Consolidated. Check. That accomplice has also skyrocketed from the IT department to Executive Assistant to one Oliver Queen. Check. How the hell have you not revisited the fact that Oliver Queen could be the Vigilante? Your daughter returned from her five year excursion weaponized, she was on the same shipwreck as Oliver Queen, Oliver Queen was once arrested for being the Arrow nee Hood. You know the Arrow has at least one accomplice, why not more? Oliver Queen disappears for five months, The Arrow disappeared for five months. Oliver Queen came back, the Arrow came back. Come on, Lance, you are killing me.
    • Original Poster - I should clarify. I do not expect Lance to arrest Oliver, what I expect his for him to work with the information he has to come to an obvious conclusion. He's already been busted down to beat cop, confronting Oliver about being the Arrow is not going to kill him, he's already doing the denial thing even working with the Arrow. At this point, knowing his actual identity would probably help Lance more than hurt him. Especially since he's dealing with Oliver better as well as the Arrow. Knowing that Oliver Queen is the Arrow would clarify a bunch for Lance including what it cost him to stop the Undertaking, etc. etc. My issue isn't that he hasn't arrested him, but that he hasn't figured it out. Especially, since he was so dead on as a detective when he had his shield. He didn't fall for the Copycat Archer thing for a second, even though he didn't even like the Hood. Also going to sign replies/rebuttals as OP because the indentations aren't working for some of the in line sections and it looks a bit confusing at some points.
    • At this point, it's likely that he no longer wants to know, since he's working with the Arrow. Like Commissioner Gordon's "I can't see anything without my glasses" bit. Plausible deniability and all that. Now, why other people don't figure it out is a fair question.
    • Don't forget both him and Diggle were running into a building together (well, Diggle was a bit behind him, but still) and while he didn't directly look at him, he seemed to be aware he was there and he was helping, and Diggle didn't wear a mask. Not to mention that the very thing that happened to Sara-returned from seeming death now a killing machine, is the exact thing he guessed happened to Oliver. And then there's the Arrow always keeping Laurel safe, and Roy working for him while dating Ollie's sister. And THEN there's Ollie's connection to Malcolm Merlyn, who also used arrows. Seriously, he must have figured it out by now and is just being quiet about it.
      • Diggle was actually far enough behind him not to be spotted, but it was stupid of all of them to put him that close to the situation. I just want Lance to be a detective and freakin' detect. ~~~O.P.
    • Detective Lance probably just doesn't want to know and even if he did most of his evidence isn't solid enough to bring to his boss. In order.
      • Both your daughter and Oliver survived the Queen's Gambit. Except his daughter is still legally dead and officially out of the picture. So he can't reveal that without causing damage to himself. Their "alliance" might also have been more about protecting Laurel than a genuine alliance anyway but either way it can't be presented.
      • I'm not talking about having Oliver arrested because obvious Lance is pro-Arrow, I'm talking about the fact that he hasn't figured out his identity yet. Or if he has, hasn't confronted him with it. ~~~O.P.
      • Oliver, a young man, comes back from a five year ship wreck on an island and magically promotes an extremely attractive young woman who's obviously attracted to him to be his personal assistant. It looks "suspicious" sure, but because the obvious answer is she's getting shafted not that he's the Arrow/Hood/Vigilante
      • He's met with and dealt with Felicity Smoak - Felicity who was brave enough to speak out on The Hood's behalf even though she knew it was probably going to be linking her with him. She also helped him defuse a man made earthquake machine, outing herself as working with the vigilante, because helping save the Glades was worth more to her than the possibility of arrest. Lance, who has a daughter who dated Oliver Queen is pretty good at warning women to stay away from Oliver Queen. Knowing her intellect level and her personality, do you honestly think Lance thinks she slept her way to the top? ~~~O.P.
      • It's not about what Lance thinks its about what he can convince a jury is undeniably true. If he can't do that and has no interest in doing so even if he could why would he bother?
      • Oliver was once arrested for being the Hood. Then the Hood made an appearance on the other side of town while he was in custody. Even now the Queen family is sufficiently powerful that picking Oliver up on such flimsy evidence probably isn't a good idea.
      • I'm not talking about arresting him, I'm talking about acknowledging facts and coming to a conclusion. ~~~O.P.
      • Oliver goes missing. During this time period plenty of copycats arrive which presumably the Police have a hard time telling from the original in many cases. The only reason they even suspected the Dark Archer and Green Arrow were separate characters was because GA had dialed back on killing people at that exact time.
      • Nope, Lance specifically asked Felicity in City of Heroes, "Have you heard from our mutual friend?", meaning he knows Arrow was gone/inactive, or that the copycats were copycats. ~~~O.P.
      • It's very likely that he doesn't really feel the need to confront Oliver about being the Arrow, even if he knows (which does seem likely to me), confronting Oliver about it would probably just cause a rift to form between them, and then Oliver would be less inclined to trust Quentin's word or actions.
    • I think this was finally explained away near the end of the season (forgot which episode specifically) where he tells Laurel NOT to tell him who the Arrow is, because he wants to keep the idea that the Arrow is a mysterious, benevolent symbol of hope to the city rather than just a guy in a mask. He doesn't want to know who he is so he's likely consciously ignoring the evidence; its entirely possible he's figured it out and is being a Secret Secret Keeper like Moira was because its easier for him to have his suspicions but not know for sure than it is for him to know for definite so he has some degree of Plausible Deniability.
  • So, there was a prototype earthquake machine just sitting in Malcolm Merlyn's garage? How could the cops not be aware of this? Why didn't they search his house and seize it after he was proven to have murdered hundreds of people? Why did Malcolm have to go through everything he went through in season one if he already had an apparently functional version of his machine? Why didn't he hide it better?
    • Most likely, this is the one he got from the scientists, and the two he used were produced by his own expense based on this one. As for the fact the police didn't seize it after he died, its possible the WMG that Malcolm had some cops on payroll is true and he had them cover it, or possibly it was hidden really well, given Turner had to go after Merlyn's architect to find it in the first place,

  • Whenever Ollie "hoods up", the first thing he does is picking up his bow. Wouldn't it make more sense to, say, change his clothes first? Bulky weapons are usually the last thing you pick up when getting into your battle gear.
    • Rule of Cool. It just looks rather cool to see him grab his bow. Its also possible he's just grabbing it to move it closer to his suit, so he can grab it quicker once he's suited up. Then, of course, he's also usually stood closer to his bow than his suit when he hears something that requires a few arrows to a few knees.

  • Why is Ollie throwing such a strop over finding out Thea has Malcolm Merlyn for a father? He's usually a lot more level-headed like that and given the shades of grey he's embraced over the time he's been stranded, it's a little odd for a Black and White Morality to start appearing.
    • Its not so much Black and White Morality, as its his mother told him that there were no ore secrets. He's annoyed that she continues to hide little details and lie about them (and while he does that too, being a bit of a hypocrite concerning this stuff is an acknowledged flaw in his character, one he's called on more than once). Its also possible he's annoyed that, thanks to this, if Thea should find it it would destroy her, so its his protectiveness over Thea kicking in. He's also possibly annoyed that she tried to blackmail/threaten Felicity into staying quiet about it, especially after seeing how much turmoil it caused her to do so.
      • Also a huge point - Oliver does not know Malcolm Merlyn is still alive. To Oliver, Moira is lying just because she doesn't want to admit the truth. Oliver's totally justified in being upset with his mother over how she treated Felicity (if he knew or figured out how it all went down, we don't know exactly what Felicity told him) but for the most part Moira was actually protecting Thea. However the problem is the manner of the whole thing. To Oliver, Malcolm is no longer a threat, so Moira could have come to him and explained the situation and they could have dealt with it as a family. Instead, she began a mayoral campaign, paid off the doctor and threatened Felicity (who's already been abandoned once). She knew that this could pop up and still went for being the mayor instead of staying out of the limelight to protect Thea which means she wasn't really thinking about Thea or the consequences of her actions. Also, by not telling Oliver, she's added another lie on top of his vast empire of lies. She knew that Oliver and Thea were beginning to trust her again, but she gambled on the fact that she could get what she wanted without anyone being the wiser. It's more of the fact that she's using her old ways to solve new problems when she promised both Oliver and Thea that that part of her life was over.

  • And Laurel's vindictiveness over finding Sara is still alive? That just doesn't sit right, for some reason.
    • Why? Remember, Sara was sleeping with her boyfriend before she 'died', and when Ollie returned, she was pissed at him at first over it. She may have forgiven Oliver for what he did, but he's been there with her and earned her forgiveness, which Sara, to her, is yet to do. Then there's the fact that, as noted by her, Sara is, unintentionally, the one to blame for a lot of the bad things that happened to Laurel in the past few years, including putting them in the cross-hairs of some assassins.
      • I suspect she wouldn't be in that mental state half as much if she hadn't just lost her job and has been and is being under threat of disbarment for something unrelated. Did you notice she went right back to hitting the bottle as soon as she realized Sara was alive?
      • Laurel is in the throes of addiction right now. Remember, she was happy to see Sara when she thought she was dead, but as soon as she found out that she was alive, she flipped out. It is justified that she be upset about the whole cheating thing (and Sara apologized), but she's already forgiven Oliver, so in this case it's mostly her using Sara as a scapegoat so she can say "My problems are all your fault." whether it's true or not. She didn't even bother to find out what kept Sara away before laying her entire sordid drama on her doorstep. While Sara's "death" was traumatic it didn't ruin Laurel's life - she was a successful pro bono lawyer for years, then worked as a D.A., had a boyfriend who loved her and a father who was getting his act together. These are all things she accomplished with Sara being "dead." Her life started falling apart well before Sara was in her picture. This is why she does a bit of an end run, blaming Sara for her parents' divorce and her dad's drinking saying "Not only did you ruin my life but our parents' too." Right now, Laurel's taking the easy way out by blaming the most available target (a bit like she did with Thea and Oliver in "Tremors").
      • Indeed, she is taking the easy way out; as of "Time of Death", Oliver has furiously called her out on it, and she's trying to make amends.

  • So does anyone else find Moira's supposed credibility as a mayoral candidate a bit far-fetched/bewildering? Blood has seemingly trounced every opponent put up against him so their response is to put forward the woman partially responsible for the destruction of a significant portion of the city? Her acquittal is likely found very hard to swallow by a lot of ordinary citizens so would this not merely push a lot of undecideds into voting for Blood simply to avoid voting for Moira? Frankly the "a lot of people identify with your mother wolf defending her cubs" spiel being repeatedly used comes off as very forced. Heck all of her backers coming from the very wealthy echelons of Starling would make it even more difficult to cultivate a common touch. The whole thing comes across as very hard to believe.
    • Blood hasn't trounced anybody yet. He got elected to alderman, a low level position, so far. And probably with help from his backer. The previous Mayor's death opened the field up a lot-so its likely Blood wouldn't have won had he run against the incumbent. Also, I don't find his opponent's candidacy any harder to swallow than a 19 year old mayor, or Jesse Ventura being elected-which you know, happened in the real world, to say nothing of a TV show based on comic books.
      • Jesse Ventura wasn't part of a class warfare terrorist plot that leveled a large section of the city and killed hundreds of people.
    • How many politicians are there IRL that have done something ethically, morally, or legally wrong and come back from it as a viable candidate? Politicians have amazing spin doctors that excel at saying "Yes that happened, now let's let that fade into the background. Look how wonderful So & So is, elect So & So for office, So & So is on YOUR side!"
      • "So & so" is rarely put on trial for the murder of 500 people weeks before announcing his or her mayoral candidacy.
      • Problem is she was most likely just being used as a scape goat for what happened in the glades. She never touched the device that killed all those people and went so far to warn the city about it. With Malcolm Merlyn "dead" all the charges were pinned onto her. She probably just seems like the most pragmatic choice.
    • A couple of things need to be cleared up. First, when they said Blood "trounced" all the other candidates they were talking about focus group polls, not actual election results. As mentioned above, Blood is merely an alderman who's gotten an unusual amount of good press. He's not as prominent as he seems. Second, they ran some other polls and discovered that nearly half the city, something like 43%, believe Moira was justified in her actions. That's a very significant. Undoubtedly some of those polled said they were "undecided". They would just have to convince the undecideds that she did nothing wrong, while also pointing out why Blood's policies would be bad for the city (a point they also explicitly mention). All they need to do is get up to 51% and she can win.
  • What was the point of using Shrapnel and Bronze Tiger in the Suicide Sqaud? What were they supposed to do in the final plan. Amanda doesn't seem fazed when Shrapnel commits Suicide by Cop, does that mean she had a contingency? Was he expendable? Was that the plan all along?
    • Bronze Tiger seems to have been there for general backup and extraction (she sends him in to cover Diggle and Lilah as soon as they need to escape; good thing, too, otherwise Lilah would be dead), and Shrapnel seems to have been the getaway driver. So that's one team leader (Diggle), one person to keep in contact with HQ (Lilah), one driver (Shrapnel), one thug on the inside (Deadshot), and one on the outside(Bronze Tiger). Seems like a minimal enough size for a heist.
    • All the members of the Suicide Squad are expendable. That's the point. Any and all of them can be sacrificed at a moment's notice. That's incentive for them to remain useful to Waller.
  • Why is Amanda Waller so trigger-happy? Okay, Shrapnel tries to get away by car and she blows him up. A bit extreme, but it's not like she had a choice.Then later in the episode she uses Deadshot as the target for a drone strike, as opposed to him just leaving a tracking device there. I haven't read the comics, so I don't know if this is how the Suicide Squad is supposed to operate, but if she's going out of her way to have them killed what's the point anyway?
    • Considering the name of team it might be implied that they are sacrificial pawns to be disposed off. Thoough I am also not sure if that is how they work in the comics. It would explain why criminals are being used.
    • Waller had a choice with Shrapnel, she chose to make an example of him. Until that point she apparently hadn't revealed to the Suicide Squad that she had kill switches implanted in them. Given what a cold bitch Waller is she probably has no intention of letting any of the Suicide Squad survive long enough to get pardoned. Deadshot seems fully aware that his chances of surviving long enough to be pardoned are low. So in short Waller is trigger happy because she is trying to kill these people, she's just using them in the meanwhile.
    • Its also possible that she's trying to put the fear-of-god into them as well, in the case they do get pardoned. By killing a few in needlessly brutal ways, any subsequent asset taken will hear the stories and be utterly frightened of being killed, and so work harder to stay needed, while any that do get pardons will be scared into silence at the threat of Waller silencing them, or of committing any other crimes after than to avoid being stuck there again.
    • Yeah it seemed particularly pointless and wasteful of a good asset. Deadshot is one of the most useful of the Suicide Squad and had shown no signs of insubordination and Waller was going to kill him completely needlessly. One can't help but wonder how someone with such poor asset managment skills ever rose as far as Waller has in the first place.
    • Well, she 'is' government official so wasting assets isn't anything new. But getting rid of a world class assassin called The Man Who Never Misses is extreme. Also, weren't there innocents in the mansion that would have been nuked to oblivion? Wasn't this a charity event?
      • She may be Genre Savvy enough to know that the Suicide Squad is a bit like holding a tiger by the tail. Sooner or later one of them will get loose and quite possibly come after her. As for the innocents Waller doesn't strike me as the type who's worried about collateral damage.
      • Also, while Deadshot has Improbable Aiming does half the cast. Oliver, Slade, Malcolm, Nyssa, Shado, Yao Fei, Sara (though not often shown), even Thea, and a few others at least have decent aim. He's an infamously good sharpshooter but he's not the only one with this level of skill that she could recruit.
  • In "Suicide Squad," Laurel is sitting at Verdant. Sara pours a drink into a glass and says, "Don't worry, it's virgin." Fair enough, but it looks like Sara poured a martini (clear liquid, conical glass.) A martini is almost pure booze (gin, vermouth, that's about it.) There's nothing like fruit juice or syrup that can be used to make a virgin version. What was that drink, water? Laurel thought it tasted terrible, so it had to have some flavor.
    • Maybe some kind of lemonade or clear-coloured juice of some kind?
    • Soda water maybe? It is a bit of an acquired taste.

  • Why would Oliver make Isabel Rochev his acting CEO when, if I remember correctly, she was attempting to take control of the company from her first appearance? While I get he was probably not thinking straight with all that was going on, this feels like an idea where the flaw in it would be not hard to see.
    • That's just what it was. Slade having Thea made a board meeting a total non priority for him. And he didn't realize how bad an idea it was until it was too late.
    • Also, there's the fact the two had bonded quite a bit since their first meeting, so he probably thought he could trust her; not to mention, he probably wasn't aware that she'd have the power to take the company from him like that.

  • Does it bug anybody else that Oliver decides to change his handle to "The Arrow" and suddenly everybody calls him that? Did he make a press release or something?
    • Likely, it's to distinguish him from 'the Hoods', the copycats in the first episode of Season 2. Notably, it wasn't an instant thing; some people still called him 'the Hood' for quite a while, and IIRC some still do, it's just the more mainish characters call him the Arrow now.
    • The police still seem to refer to him as The Vigilante for the most part.

  • Is Ollie really so dense that he thinks he's the "one other who has to die" Slade was talking about? a) He was RIGHT THERE, completely helpless and open for Slade to kill! b) Oliver was given a choice on the island, and Slade think Ollie is responsible because of the choice he did make. c) Slade makes it pretty clear that I Want Him To Suffer applies. Has Ollie never heard of "poetic justice"? Because I'm pretty sure that's what Slade would think of it as.
    • He just lost his mother. He's traumatized more than he's ever been, and he just wants it all to end. He's not thinking clearly, he just wants Slade to kill him and end this,; it's not him being dense, it's him being completely at Rock Bottom.

  • Am I the only one bugged that, after Sara worked so hard to avoid going back and spent so much time trying to leave her past behind her, she just so willingly goes back to the League, with it being played off as what she wants? She tried to kill herself once to avoid going back, for Christ's sake! I get they want to leave off so Laurel can become Black Canary, and I'm grateful they didn't kill her off so Laurel could take her place, but it's a pretty sad way to write her out.
    • Given that Malcolm Merlyn is back, and he's got a target on his back from Ra's Al Ghul, Sara will probably be back in two shakes of a lamb's tail.
    • A little. Even if it was somewhat presented as being her choice this troper thought it looked a lot more like a case of she sold her soul (again) to the League, this time to protect her city and didn't want her friends and family freaking out about the cost. Lets be honest, without help vs Slade's army that battle would have been very one sided. Even as it stands it took some pretty generous applications of Plot Armor to get the crew through with out a single casualty.
  • I know that Arrow and the Nolan Trilogy don't share the same universe but is anybody else looking at the basic scenario presented in Season One of a group trying to wipe the bad part of their city, followed by a Slade and with an ultimately failed Batman Gambit on Waller to again destroy the city, the establishment of Ra's Al Ghul and the League and wondering how this could be if anything a League plot to take a major city off the map? If Ra's shows up as the Big Bad in season three I'm gonna have to bang my head against a wall figuring out why he saved it to thrash it a year later.
  • Well, Ra's himself didn't seem to want to save the city; his daughter wanted Sara back and she agreed to do so if they saved the city. It seems in the show's universe, the League consider genocide of a city to be unhonourable and prefer silent assassinations, so its unlikely Ra's is going to show up planning to destroy the city. Most likely, he'll want to kill Malcolm and possibly Thea for the former's betrayal of their code, and possibly the Queen family as a whole because of Moira's part in it.
  • When Ollie gets really high up on those salmon does he get back down?
    • There's probably a pillow or mat on the ground
  • Would coating a bullet with poison actually work? I would think the hot gas from the exploding powder would burn off any poison residue.
  • What is up with Laurel's characterization on this show? She's the canon Black Canary, but there is not one character from this show I've seen who is more reviled by fans than her. From this website alone I've seen enough people clamoring for Oliver to hook up with either Sara or Felicity over hooking up with Laurel, because she's presented as so unlikeable. I'd like to add that in the comics Felicity never even interacted with Oliver, and Sara doesn't exist in the comics. So do the writers of the show just not like Dinah, aka Laurel, or what else is going on that fans hate her and outright wish that Oliver not hook up with the woman who's supposed to be his soul mate?
    • I think the writers wanted to try something unexpected with Laurel's character and they got a bit carried away with it. Hopefully Sara's exit from the show (at least I assume it's going to be an exit) plus the fact that Laurel is attending AA and trying to clean up her life means that they're going to start turning her around and making her more likable.
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