Discussion Main / SophisticatedAsHell

Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: Clarification worthwhile..., started by neoYTPism on Apr 13th 2011 at 1:52:29 AM

I think that calling the trope "Sophisticated as Shit" or "Sophisticated as Fuck" would be more apt than "Sophisticated as Hell", but maybe that's just me.

The Bioshock example needs cleaning, it's descended into a debate of some kind:

"Bioshock gives us this nugget: "Would you kindly get to Ryan's office and kill the son of a bitch?" The default answer is "No, I'm afraid murdering him kindly would be impossible." There is Subtext here: the use of "Would you kindly" is justified a short time later in plot. The use of "son of a bitch" is justified in that the speaker is royally poshed. Although it would be possible to kindly get to Ryan's office and then unkindly kill him. No matter his lineage. Also, from the tone of voice used, it's pretty clear he's being sardonic. Or, you know, considering the Subtext, he wants you to think that's what he's doing."

On 20 May, a certain troper deleted several apparently valid Fanfic examples on the grounds that these examples presented only one instance of the trope for each work. There are several problems with deleting examples on that basis:

1) Nothing on the trope page requires, or even suggests, that a work must have multiple examples of the trope to be listed. Quite the contrary, an Editor's Note on the page states that only one quotation per work should be listed on the main page, with any additional quotations going on the Quotes subpage;

2) The alleged requirement for multiple instances is not observed for the examples of any other medium. Enforcing a tighter standard for fan works comes across as a backdoor attempt to enforce notability; and

3) A work having only one instance of a trope doesn't mean that the work doesn't ably illustrate the trope.

For these reasons, and perhaps more, the deletions appear to be arbitrary and capricious. Because site policy does not allow arbitrary deletion of valid examples, I propose to restore the deleted examples.

Deleted example text follows. Some of these might require cleanup, or might be invalid for reasons other than the one given:

• Happens unintentionally in bad fanfic quite a lot. See Forbiden Fruit: The Tempation of Edward Cullen: "omg my sweet lady" he cried! "what has this frightful asshole been doing to thee?"
  • Common in Harry Potter fanfics, as teenage girls try to imitate the speech pattern of a hundred-year-old man.
  • It's also quite common in lemons to see Purple Prose peppered with words like "cock".
• In a more innocent example, Harry Potter mingles highbrow ornate language with overly excited childish babble during a visit to Hermione's parents, just to mess with them.
  "Gosh! This is a big house! I hope I dont get lost in here!"
  "Well met on this fairest of evenings, Miss Granger. I present to you my father, Professor Michael Verres-Evans, and my mother, Mrs. Petunia Evans-Verres."
  "Mum, Dad, this is Hermione! Shes really smart!"
  "I'm afraid, Miss Granger, that you and I have been exiled to the labyrinthine recesses of the basement. Let us leave them to their adult conversations, which would no doubt soar far above our own childish intellects, and resume our ongoing discussion of the implications of Humean projectivism for Transfiguration."
• The Stargate SG-1 fic We're All Mad Here has this little gem:
  Personal Therapy Progress Notes - Sgt. Ryan Nerucci - Session 3
  
  Session Objectives:
  Explore feelings of resistance towards disclosure about the subordination incident of October 6. Encourage seeking help from outside sources (comrades, unit commander, base chaplain, grandmother)
  
  Session Synopsis:
  Attempted to demonstrate the social supports mind-map building exercise. Exercise prevented when client initiated self-disclosure about childhood incidents and resisted redirection. When he mentioned his aunt as a possible source of support, he affected a show of extreme grief and began a long story from when he was three, about losing a tricycle he loved and his aunt's dog running away. Client attempted to apply psychodynamic principles to this incident, saying, "I think my Oedipus complex is for dogs." Eventually agreed he should call his grandmother on the weekend.
  
  Clinical Assessment:
  Client is fucking with me.
• The Total Drama story, Courtney and the Violin of Despair has an intentional example. The description of the school orchestra performing Tchaikovsky's fourth symphony includes the phrases "pretty much" and "work their butts off", in marked contrast to the story's usually florid narrative style.
• This Thor fanfic memorably describes the Casket of Ancient Winters as the "Platonic Fucking Ideal of Really Fucking Cold-As-Balls."
• Chapter 36 of Fanfic.Total Drama Returns has Gwen reciting this poem from her journal.
  Gwen: Family passes on like flowers in a storm,
  Death is a burden, destroys all that is warm,
  The fire moves on with the strength of a single coal,
  Trent is a f**king tool he needs to die in a hole.

This image is so not the trope, I think we'd have more meaningful discussion over whether it is not an inversion. The character is sophicated and does his thing in a sophisticated way. Though the surroundings aren't that just makes him seem more sophisticated. I'd say there's probably a different trope for that (sophisticated guy who loves unsophisticated thing in sophisticated way) but it misses the key of the trope: sophistication subverted.

Does the POTC example count? I could've sworn that Elizabeth uses the 'disincled' line first in negotiations, then when the pirates leave and she demands to be dropped off, Barbosa says it back to her. But it's been a while since I've seen the movie so maybe I'm misremembering?

I don't like that blue link "self demonstrating article"'s placement.

Because it is detrimental to the effect—- when it's at "fuckin' weird" and there was no blue text emphasizing that it was so easy to see the effect.

but with the placement you sort of dont' get it, since it's already bold. It's all : Oh, okay.

I mean it's a good thing to put in, but not there. It just kind of ruins the self - demonstration... > _ <

I'm not going to take it out for now, (wishes to see what you all think before actually doing anything), but does anyone also think the same way?

I don't like that blue link "self demonstrating article"'s placement.

Because it is detrimental to the effect—- when it's at "fuckin' weird" and there was no blue text emphasizing that it was so easy to see the effect.

but with the placement you sort of dont' get it, since it's already bold. It's all : Oh, okay.

I mean it's a good thing to put in, but not there. It just kind of ruins the self - demonstration... > _ <

I'm not going to take it out for now, (wishes to see what you all think before actually doing anything), but does anyone also think the same way?

Does it count a Sophisticated as Hell if a Psycho for Hire attempts to invoke Sesquipedalian Loquaciousness, but it frequently dissolves into Ax-Crazy statments?

Does adult language plus baby talk count? Such as "Fucking hell, I got an owie"