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They have problems understanding English syntax. In this entry:
- While most other scam artists would likely have said, "Get lost, kid," the moment a youngster like Mob approached them
...they changed "them" to "him", on the grounds that it's wrong to use singular "they" for a person of known gender. But if you look at the whole sentence, the antecedent of "them" is "scam artists", a plural noun.
Looking through their edits, I found (and reverted) at least two other cases where "they" was being used as a plural.
Edited by Vilui
Also, it seems the reason that earlier entry used "they" for the character is because the character's name was spoilered out.
Presumably, using "she" would clue people into the spoiler. The June 24th edit also seems to be using "they" as a plural (referring to Batman and Alfred, not just Alfred).
On Trivia.One Piece (edit history), they removed an entry from the Doing It for the Art trope with an edit reason that said "If they're such fans of the manga to the point they have work on the live action show, that piece of trivia goes in the "Big-Name Fan" trope, not the "Doing It For The Art" one, since just reading the manga doesn't represent the type of effort an actor/director/producer/crew member out into a determined work to be associated with the DIFTA trope." However, Big Name Fan is no longer a trivia trope.
So, do you think it should be put back in the Doing It for the Art trope?
Edited by gjjones He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
Summoned them, I have.
On the subject of One Piece, if the creators of the TV series are fans of the manga, that's more Promoted Fanboy than Doing It for the Art.
Edited by Serac
Bounce Johnny_Joestar to the "Edit banned/suspended" thread then.
^ Uh, that's up to the mods.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
^^ How about let's give Johnny_Jorstar another chance? It's mods' decision, not yours.
“What is that? It's The Unknown!”
By the way, did you notice how Johnny's complaining about gender-neutral pronouns, and we're all calling them "them"? That's irony. Or should be.
So I sent them a PM as well, and I received a response. While I won't copy it here, the basic jist is that they believe they're right and they're not being rude, and it seems they're not going to back down from their stance.
What stance exactly? The rude behavior, or the faulty grammar, or something else?
1) If you put a comma in "Get lost, kid," at the end like this, instead of "Get lost, kid" followed by "...the moment a youngster like Mob approached them", then I'm gonna read it as another sentence entirely. It just reads weird, so I assumed the right thing for the wrong reason. 2) I wasn't aware of the Big Name Fan/Promoted Fanboy change since I read that trope like a million years ago in the Trivia section for Mother's Basement, So I'll own that. 3) The gender pronoun thing was there in a lot of the edits, and I'd show you, but apparently you're checking them for me, so you can keep looking.
Edited by Johnny_Joestar
[MOD MODE]
^ aside, if you want to keep your editing privileges, stop with the rude edit reasons.
[/MOD MODE]
Edited by Willbyr
As far as I know, though, the comma is there right after the quote because that's accurate English. That's just how you need to do it.
Well, I think it varies from Commonwealth to American.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
No, you always need a comma. It just varies whether you put it outside the quotation marks (Commonwealth) or inside them (American).
Well, yeah, that's what I meant.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
What I meant with the edit was...
"the moment a youngster like Mob approached HIM, Reigen instead welcomes in the clearly troubled young Mob"
...thus separating Reigen from the 1st example, since Reigen is not like the other scam artists. I didn't read the need to refer to the scam artists a 2nd time, so I made the change, because the 2nd comma in "Get lost, kid," gives two different sentences, while having that comma erased does make for better grammar.
My focus was on the pronoun "they" that I mistook for a gendered pronoun because that redundant comma in "Get lost, kid,"; the two commas inside the quotation.
Just gonna repeat that while I do see how it's confusing, the second comma isn't redundant, grammatically speaking.
If it is confusing, then it's not grammatically correct.
...That's not how grammar works.
English grammar is notoriously confusing at times. Just ask my parents, Ayn Rand and God. Technically, that sentence isn't grammatically incorrect, just ambiguous.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Actually, I think Johnny is in the right about the comma in this example. Here is the full sentence again:
- While most other scam artists would likely have said, "Get lost, kid," the moment a youngster like Mob approached them, Reigen instead welcomes in the clearly troubled young Mob.
Suppose we take out the quoted words and replace them with X:
- While most other scam artists would likely have said X the moment a youngster like Mob approached them, Reigen instead welcomes in the clearly troubled young Mob.
There isn't a natural break up until the comma after "them", so there shouldn't be a comma either before or after X.
This is different from the rules about using "said" as a dialogue tag, when it's always separated from the words spoken with a comma. Here, it just occurs in the middle of a sentence, and shouldn't be split off any more than any other verb should be split off from its subject.
I feel that since "Get lost, kid," is a complete sentence, it needs to be followed by punctuation.
Granted, neither I nor Vilui have any sources to quote...
Maybe just don't use the quotes in the sentence, but rewrite it to something like: "While most other scam artists would have told a youngster like Mob to get lost the moment he approached them..."
The entry seems to be talking about a hypothetical situation, rather than a direct quote from the source material, i.e. no one literally said those words to the character. Putting a quote in the middle of the sentence like that is therefore unncessary.
Edited by Adept
Dialogue in quotes always needs punctuation. If you replace it with something without quotes, it becomes an entirely different grammatical structure, so it has absolutely no bearing on whether or not the quotes need punctuation.
^ The problem is that the dialogue (and the placement of the comma in the dialogue) leads to some ambiguity/confusion. The bolded pronoun in the entry is supposed to refer to the scam artists in the start of the sentence, but because of the comma, it looks like a sentence break, in which case the pronoun would refer to Reigen.
- While most other scam artists would likely have said, "Get lost, kid," the moment a youngster like Mob approached them, Reigen instead welcomes in the clearly troubled young Mob.
So the best way to resolve this particular issue is to just remove the dialogue altogether, since it's not actually from the work. The punctuation issue is secondary.
Edited by Adept
Well, unfortunately, Joestar is still being rude. Their most recent edit reason is "Correcting shitty spelling."
Edited by iamconstantine
^ Might want to make a new query for that.
I think bumping this one is fine since it's the same troper and the same issue, unless you're concerned it may not see mod action due to being over 30 posts long?
Yeah, that's the main reason.
Johnny_Joestar has a pretty bad problem with being needlessly rude in their edit reasons. In particular, they like to use the word "dumb" very often. Just looking at their first page of edit history, most of their edits have a rude edit reason. Edit history here
Some of these rude edit reasons include:
"The guy who wrote that doesn't know anything about law [...] so is pretty dumb to affirm [...]."
"This division is dumb and cofusing."
"The reference is too dumb, vague, and a complete reach..."
"Erased a lot of dumb, awkward reaching."
"Erased it on the ground of being a very dumb and tangent nitpick..."
However, most of their comments—to the point where I'm wondering if this is a Single-Issue Wonk—is apparently incorrect pronouns for characters. On the first page of their edit history, edit reasons include some variation of "dropping dumb pronoun" ten times. Again, just on the first page.
On June 1st I sent them a PM for one of these rude reasons: "Dropping dumb, inaccurate, incorrect and unnecessary gender pronoun for a character who is, looks, is coded, and identifies as female. Seriously, TV Tropes has a serious problem with editors assuming characters' wrong genders." But on June 24th, they left yet another "dumb pronoun" edit reason.
Edited by iamconstantine