Edit Wars over Subjective Tropes

This isn't for all subjective tropes. There are some that manage to be just fine on pages because they aren't subjective enough to cause flame wars. This is for things like So Bad Its Horrible that are almost always a Flame War.

Why not just put the list on the page that Flame Bait already goes to? That would be Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment.

That works, too. Or repurpose the Flame Bait redirect.

In thinking about it some more, I think The Scrappy may be able to be removed from that list. It causes problems sometimes, but at least as often it's not Flame Bait; it's pretty well agreed-on whether a character is a Scrappy or not..

@Shimaspawn: I know that. I'm asking if tropes like Awesome Moments or Tear Jerker would go on the list. It's well agreed that they should never go on any work page, but they're not Flame Bait either.

By the way, shouldn't Dethroning Moment Of Suck have the tag on it? It's almost on the level of So Bad Its Horrible.

I would be fine with putting them on the Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment page, but I'd need a list of exactly what tropes you guys think should actually be on there for clarity.

If we are now nominating tropes that should go under this banner, I'd like to suggest adding Unfortunate Implications to the list because of all the arguing over examples.

I like the new banner. Very eye catching and the little flame icon is cool.

Of course an icon like this would be cool too. J/K

edited 26th Sep '10 2:17:28 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Any derivative of the Crowning Moments should be on the list, positive or negative (so Dying Moment of Awesome,Dethroning Moment Of Suck, etc). As should Unfortunate Implications, Narm, Fridge anything and Wallbanger.

Broken Base and The Scrappy don't need to be on it, but both should be watched for natter and flaming, and removed if it gets excessive.

Will have to think on what others should be there.

edited 26th Sep '10 4:06:40 PM by AddyThePawnSlayer

If that's the case, shouldn't Dying Moment of Awesome be on Sugar Wiki?

Wow, I didn't think my little topic would snowball into something like this, haha.

Anyway, I'll try to refrain from adding or preventing the deletion of the more subjective tropes (or fan reaction tropes like the scrappy) in the future. Thanks for the input, everyone!

Just given my experience Fridge Brilliance, Fridge Logic, Narm, and all CM Oanything don't deserve this tag. They invite natter, not flaming. Honestly, they're pretty harmless in some situations. Wall Banger probably does, though.

Also, Fridge Logic and Fridge Brilliance have their own page that they belong on.

^ Um, so do all the others.

So in general, if people get into an extended adding/removing edit war, does that mean that the particular example is subjective enough that it should just be jettisoned?

Some nice way to say 'not for trope lists', then.

Here's a list of the potential tropes to have the banner so far:

• Canon Sue
• Crowning Music Of Awesome
• Dethroning Moment Of Suck
• Dying Moment of Awesome
• Fan Dumb
• Fridge Brilliance
• Fridge Logic
• Funny Moments
• Hate Dumb
• Heartwarming Moments
• High Octane Nightmare Fuel
• Moment Of Awesome
• Narm
• Nightmare Fuel
• So Bad It's Horrible
• Tear Jerker
• Unpleasable Fanbase
• Wall Banger

Please note: I interpret this as a list of tropes that should never be mentioned on a work page due to natter, not necessarily flaming. Correct me if I'm wrong. Also, let me know if you think I'm missing any.

I think the banner is warning against Flame Bait. Half of the tropes you list are harmless, just bad form. And honestly, there's usually a general fandom consensus that, for example, Hellfire is Crowning Music Of Awesome. As such, I would probably remove (but if the admins think differently, then keep them):

• Crowning Music Of Awesome
• Dying Moment of Awesome
• Fridge Brilliance
• Funny Moments
• Heartwarming Moments
• High Octane Nightmare Fuel
• Moment Of Awesome
• Nightmare Fuel
• Tear Jerker

Actually, a lot of these rarely cause that much natter, I usually move them across when there are a ridiculous number of three-bullets and This Tropers infesting the example.

That list you just posted? Eddie's made clear that he doesn't want any of them on work pages due to their subjectivity. Natter has nothing to do with it; I didn't phrase my last post very well.

But yeah, I need a concrete answer: Is the banner for tropes that are Flame Bait, or for tropes that shouldn't be on work pages period, including CMOA, etc?

The milder items, the ones that just cause natter and aren't flame-y, need a different banner, is all. We just need to get the message out in no uncertain terms that these are items that shouldn't be in a work's list of tropes, because they aren't tropes, they're opinions.

Edit to add: Trying out a new subjective banner. See Nightmare Fuel for an example.

edited 26th Sep '10 8:12:36 PM by FastEddie

^^ So none of them on the works pages. Alright, then.

Got an idea for the Subjective banner: how about one of these for the icon?

edited 26th Sep '10 8:23:08 PM by Madrugada

The shrug seems to work. Why change it?

I was just thinking the shrug is more of a "Whatever" gesture. These tropes are the ones people tend to feel strongly about.

@Eddie: Thanks for clarifying. Still, the banner on Nightmare Fuel might be a little too polite. I think rather than "Please don't list these [etc]", "Don't list these [etc]" would be better. People are more likely to skip over something that's overly polite and phrased like a request, in my experience.

Would "Don't list" be a new banner, or an expansion of the old subjective icon? Because I'm not sure if all of the pages with the current subjective icon are of the never-have-on-works-pages-ever variety. I'd have to look through them though.

@Madrugada: Between the two you posted, I like the normal thumbs up/down pictures better. The second two are a little... annoying.

Is the new subjective banner permanent? I'd like to know *before* I start mass-deleting.