Two Best Friends Play:

Poor Lakshmi-Bai deserved her own face.

That and it's halfway his fault that the Fate franchise suffers from Best Known for the Fanservice reputation even Pat buys into, because he keeps putting the gas pedal on the Sex Sells aspects I never signed up for, and which weren't even all that present back when the games had literal porn. The spinoffs can be pretty trashy, yeah, but thankfully they're mostly spinoffs while the "main" canon remains pretty sane. Although, yeah, Hollow Ataraxia can get bad because of the guest writers.

Edited by AlleyOop on Jan 20th 2020 at 2:16:18 PM

Not to mention his Saberface tendencies are prominent enough that Fate/Grand Order made an entire character whose life revolved around killing them because there were too many and their existence destabilized the universe.

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.

Dare I add fuel to the fire by bringing up the sexualization of Chloe, Jack, Illya, Sitonai and others, aka literal children?

Shamelessly plugging my comics, Oh yes.

To be fair, most bona fide lolicon fanservice in Fate comes either from Prisma Illya (and is incidentally the main reason I refuse to touch that work with a ten foot pole no matter how good some of it supposedly is) or the aforementioned FGO which suffers from severe problems with not just oversexualization but poor-taste designs in almost every direction imaginable.

Loli the Ripper is a mix of issues stemming from Unfortunate Implications due to the original artist's work in part just being plain ugly, but it's made worse by her creator being the writer for Apocrypha and thus Character Shilling her instead of discarding her like a lot of the other bad designs they introduced. They at least recognized the issues enough to pull a halfway Author's Saving Throw by giving her a more competent artist who aged up her physique, so she's more visibly post-pubescent. But now that just runs into the problems of sexualizing an ambiguous girl or woman with the personality of a child, when they could've just fixed it altogether, and when it's apparently hated enough for another Fate entry to make fun of it.

Edited by AlleyOop on Jan 20th 2020 at 8:49:13 AM

I'm forever grateful that Kara no Kyoukai was finished before the franchise bug hit.

If Case Files is any indication, the "mainline" entries still manage to be pretty good and not consumed by fanservice bullshit even with being made after FGO became a thing. I just hope they don't let too much of the less savory aspects bleed into Adventures.

I know it's probably never going to happen, but I do hope Pat and Woolie suspend their Fate hatred enough to at least give Fate/Zero a chance. It and Case Files have almost none of the bullshit Pat's taken the franchise to task over.

Edited by AlleyOop on Jan 20th 2020 at 8:56:50 AM

They do, yeah. Even if a lot of the Servants are fetish fuel the franchise maintains fairly consistently good stories.

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.

Only legit good and well-written Fate thing is the Riyo manga anyway.

"I'll show you fear, there is no hell, only darkness." My twitter

Ehh, aside from Extra CCC the fanservice-heavy Fate works also tend to be weaker and sloppier writingwise, whether that's a coincidence or not. Reminds me of how at its core Xenoblade 2 did have some excellent story aspects especially in the latter half, but even though it dropped the Creepy Anime Bullshit aspects by then the fact that they were present in the first half ended up hampering its overall ability to tell a good plot. The Torna DLC had none of that and ended up being much better because of it.

Edited by AlleyOop on Jan 20th 2020 at 9:14:18 AM

OG Fate had fucking rapeworms and other skeevy shit. Anything that discludes those elements, regardless of how heavy the fan service is, is an improvement.

"I'll show you fear, there is no hell, only darkness." My twitter

The only reason the Crest Worms are rapeworms to begin with is because they invade your body to get into your Magic Circuits. Every Matou goes through the same thing if they have the potential, it's just particularly fucked because it happened to Sakura, a child.

Plus it is most definitely not seen as something intended to be fanservice-y. Plus Fate/stay night was rather guilty of Early-Installment Weirdness.

"Have sex with your Servant to replace its mana." and whatnot.

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.

The "sex for mana transfer" concept isn't totally gone. They kept one of the sex scenes in the Darker and Edgier Heaven's Feel films, though it's more of an emotional moment than fanservice. Fate/Extra did have one or two mildy fanservicey mana transfer moments, and Prillya has the French kissing. The most recent example I can think of was a gag 4koma for Fate/Zero that suggested Waver and Rider did the deed offscreen that ended up being a Brick Joke in the Case Files anime, but it's purely for laughs and nothing ever gets shown. I'm not sure about FGO but it wouldn't surprise me.

Edited by AlleyOop on Jan 20th 2020 at 10:28:25 AM

I get why emotionally, but It's pretty shallow to dismiss every bit of good to great writing in the various Fate media just because you dislike the "skeevy shit". It really makes criticisms from such an individual difficulty to take seriously.

The Sex Magic isn't a problem to me for example. There's potentially a lot of interesting things you can write about using it, but most of the time it only comes up to force sex scenes in Type-MOON's eroge days.

Edited by VeryMelon on Jan 20th 2020 at 10:17:44 AM

Indeed. The franchise has grown far beyond that sort of thing.

Even in Jack the Ripper's case her being a lolita is not designed to be sexy.

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.

doubt.jpg

Seconded.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

Thirded.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."

From Konoe's artist comments in Fate/Grand Order Material III on Jack's design

:////////// anyway this is part of the series of "why I personally deeply dislike ototsugu konoe's art"

Despite the many fan jokes about bond levels unlocking that, I'm pretty sure the only time it's come up is with the Prillya nonsense. and maybe Riyo because Riyo is a haaaackkkkkkk

EDIT: oh no wait Boudicca's interlude unfortunately was pretty bad

Edited by Nouct on Jan 21st 2020 at 9:29:13 AM

I’m just weirded out that a real-ass serial killer is getting this sexualized design.

It's been 3000 years…

Yup,I doubt they even know who his victims were,just that he butchered them and they thought "thats so kool!"

It be like doing the same thing to someone like Ted Bundy

New theme music also a box

Well her backstory is horrific (she's the amalgamation of thousands of orphaned children abandoned by prostitute mothers in London and ground up by the city's horrific conditions), but yeah, the spandex thing is certainly...eh >.>

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.

Jack is one of those many cases where her stupid design is the only thing wrong with her character. Even a decent pair of pants would have gone a long way to helping her.

Strange Fake Jack seems a lot cooler as a character, though that whole story is apparently a mess.

It's a mess because the Holy Grail War in that one starts out as a half-assed imitation by American mages. It turns into a true Holy Grail War when the Association actually takes an interest and more Servants start to be summoned.

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.