During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Onyx and Dragud
Messenger from another dimension.
Looks like I have to repost a question I asked a page back;
"I want to talk about Edward Braddock in Assassin's Creed 3. While he defnitely counts, he is listed under Forsaken. Thing is... I am replaying AC 3 and it seems like many of his actions listed are actually in the game itself. Maybe we should move him to game or just list him under Franchise-wide."
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
We can move Edward Braddock to "Franchise-Wide" since his entry covers both the book and the game (Granted the book does novelize several parts of the game including Braddock, but of course we can add Braddock to the Franchise-Wide to cover both game and book)
Edited by G-Editor on Nov 24th 2020 at 12:05:19 AM
OK! Time for another Star Wars fanfiction proposal. The candidate in question is none other than Emperor Palpatine himself. However, ironically, in this story he is not portrayed as the central threat but I still think that he is worth a discussion. Let`s get started!
What`s the work?
Star Wars Episode III - Children of Lwhekk is a German fanfiction written by Bodiel (the same author who also wrote Die Anatomie der Macht with Joylin). There is also a sequal to this fanfic called Star Wars Episode IV - Shadow of Xwhee where the story continues but Palpatine doesn`t appear there. Star Wars Episode III - Children of Lwhekk is basically a retelling of episode 3 but the author changes some vital things and doesn`t use the scenes from the movie but instead writes about events that happen in the fanfic at the same time as Episode 3 but of course are not shown in the film itself because they made up by Bodiel. Here is a short summation of the story:
Ssi-ruuk are an alien race with reptilian features that lives outside the Republic and hasn`t made any contact with them. They are slavers who believe that they are the superior race and all other races should obey them. There are even some Ssi-ruuk who are also slaves. One day a Ssi-ruuk ship crashes on one of the Republic worlds. Anakin and Ahsoka are sent to investigate and they find An'nexius, his slave and a third slave San'tekk'in, who are sent as ambassadors in search of intelligent life forms. The Jedi escort the three aliens to Coruscant where they receive special treatment as honor guests of the Republic. Basically, most of the fanfic is about the different characters interacting with each other, being suspicious and forming friendships (in the case of Ahsoka and San'tekk'in). Later it turns out that An'nexius was sent on the mission from a Force-sensitive Ssi-ruuk named Zantab'ron who thinks that Force-sensitive being are superior to all others and he plans to unite them all (including the Jedi) and to conquer the entire galaxy and subjegate all other creatures under his rule.
For these reasons he arrives on Coruscant to convince the Jedi to join him and rule the Galaxy together. However, only a few hours after his arrival Palpatine attempts to execute Order 66. Zantab'ron kills Palpatine and sends his people to kill the Clones and sends one of his most trusted enforcers Paxian, to kill Anakin before he could kill the younglings. Anakin passes out due to the battle and An'nexius, who thinks that Zantab'ron`s plans for total domination would be disastrous, kills most of his people and kills Zantab'ron himself.
However, An'nexius himself dies shortly afterwards due to his wounds and Paxian and Att`aya escape only to return as villains in the sequal to this fanfiction. In this version of the story Padme doesn`t die in childbirth, Anakin is able to lead a normal life with her after realising his mistake and leaves the Jedi Order, the Jedi Order is almost entirely destroyed because of Order 66 but is still alive and must be rebuilt, Palpatine is death and his plans have filed and Ahsoka takes San'tekk'in as her apprentice. Now, about the villain Palpatine himself.
Who is he?
Palpatine is the Chancellor of the Republic and the secret Dark Lord the Jedi are looking for. He is the mastermind behind the Clone Wars which has devastated the entire Republic and has claimed billions of lives. The reason why he has instigated this war in the first place is because he wants more power.
In a dream Anakin remembers how Palpatine commanded him to behead Count Dooku (who is later revealed to have been Palpatine`s apprentice and Palp simply didn`t need him any longer).
For most of the story itself Palpatine doesn`t do anything heinous because he is not the focus but at the end of the story he convinces Anakin that he can save his wife Padme if he joins the Dark Side. Anakin doesn`t believe him and instead goes to Mace Windu and reports him.
Mace Windu and the three other Jedi go to arrest him but Palpatine kills them all with the help of Anakin just like in the movie.
He then contacts many clones throughout the Galaxy and tells them to execute Order 66 which results in the deaths of thousands of Jedi. He also sends Anakin to the Jedi Temple to massacre evryone inside including the kids.
However, Zantab'ron, who wants to exalt the Force sensitive creatures to the most superior species in the entire Galaxy and enslave all other creatures, arrives in Palpatine`s office. He wants to save the Jedi because he thinks they would join him in his quest for total domination and he kills Palpatine and sends his people to kill the Clones that are killing the Jedi and stop Anakin.
Freudian Excuse, Mitigating Factors?
No. He is the only villain from this fanfic and its sequal that doesn`t have redeeming qualities or excuse.
Heinous standard
The only thing that could prevent him from being a Complete Monster is the heinous standard because there are a lot of other villains in this fanfic and its sequal. For example:
Zantab'ron - Attempted to enslave all non Force-sensitive creatures in the entire Galaxy and raise all Force sensitives as superior. However, he can`t qualify because he is shown to be disgusted by the practice of his own species to enslave humans. He also raised a human girl named Att`aya and is shown to genuinely love her. He is also saddened by the deaths of the other Force-sensitives.
Paxian - He attempted to kill his own father and in the sequal tried to fulfil the legacy of his master Zantab'ron by enslaving all non Force-sensitives in the entire Galaxy. He also captured Anakin and allowed Att`aya to repeatedly rape him because he wanted her to have a Force-sensitive child. However, he also can`t qualify because he genuinely cares about Att`aya and is saddened when his master died.
Att`aya - She helps both Zantab'ron and Paxian in their plans for total domination. She also raped Anakin Skywalker repeatedly for days in order to get pregnant. However, she can`t qualify because she loves both her adoptive father Zantab'ron (she literally breaks down upon his death0 and Paxian (whom she regards as her brother even though they are from different species). She is shown to love the baby she has from raping Anakin.
Jenna Zan Arbor - She has infected many planets with deadly diseases in order to "cure" them and receive money in return. In the sequal she plans to unleash a deadly desease that affects only Force-sensitive creatures in the entire Galaxy. However, she is not a Complete Monster because just like her version in Die Anatomie der Macht, she is presented as a Well-Intentioned Extremist. She blames the Force-sensitive creatures for all the misery that has befallen the Galaxy and she wants to wipe them all out in order to help the other creatures and save the Galaxy from a huge disaster. Jenna has infected many planets with other diseases because she needs money to fund her projects.
The Ssi-ruuk society in general is also terrible because they enslave other species, they eat human babies because they see no use in them, they sometimes kill their own babies if they are born with deformities and they power up their ships by killing slaves and using their energy. Instead of computers, there is a soul of a killed slave navigating the vehicle which lives in constant agony.
Another problem is that most of Palpatine`s actions happen off-screen (excluding the purge at the Jedi Temple). However, he still caused the deaths of billions of people by starting the Clone Wars, killed and betrayed Count Dooku, killed the 4 Jedi that were sent to arrest, turned Anakin to the Dark Side and almost completely wiped out the Jedi Order and sent Anakin to kill even the kids.
Conclusion
I will leave it up to you.
Edited by WatTambor on Nov 24th 2020 at 4:03:45 AM
to Dragud and Onyx
Edited by WatTambor on Nov 24th 2020 at 2:39:01 AM
Morning, guys.
Yes to Dragud. And yes, Li Pang is from the 90s movie, Return Engagement - somehow I left out the title while doing the EP. My bad 
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Abstain on Palpatine. That heinous standard seems a little high..
Edited by Bullman on Nov 24th 2020 at 6:11:57 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Yea, I know that the heinous standard is high and I have my own doubts. However, one thing I forgot to mention in my proposal - Jenna Zan Arbor appears and reveals her plan to wipe out all Force-sensitives in the sequal fanfic and Anakin`s rape also happens there. By this point Palpatine is dead because he dies in the first fanfic.
Edited by WatTambor on Nov 24th 2020 at 4:22:19 AM
Order 66 is still nasty but with pretty well only that to his name I don’t think the watered down version makes the cut.
Hi guys! This is my first CM proposal on TV Tropes.
I first heard about Miss G and after reading about it, she make Humbert Humbert look like a saint, but with no remorse like he had.
What is the work? Cracks is an 1999 novel by Sheila Kohler, telling the story about an Italian aristocrat named Fiamma Corona, a member of the divining team, find herself being the infatuated crush of an divining instructor named Miss Gribben (or short, Miss G). This book is adapted into the 2009 film of the same name, starring Eva Green as Miss G.
Who is Miss G and what have she done? Miss G is an divining instructor at St Mathilda's with the apparent fears of going outside. She was admired by the students in the boarding school, including Di Radfield, whom she spend time with in a boat. At first, she seem to be an adventurous and fun woman with "traveling experiences", however these were actually the parts of the facade that Miss G has adopted to grooming the students that were at age between 11 and 16, particularly Di. When Fiamma Corona, an Italian (Spanish in the film) aristocrat, arrived at the school, Miss G begin to developed an infatuated crush on her, this causes Di becoming jealous towards Fiamma.
Miss G begin to grooming Fiamma with a gift featuring chocolate boxes during the dinner and begin to grooming Di and other students, including the latter, to get swimming naked midnight. Miss G would forcing Fiamma to divining despite Fiamma having asthma and she punished Di and the divining team for no reason.
Miss G stalking Fiamma when Fiamma tried to hiding from Miss G and would grooming her with foods. Miss G begin to gave underage students, including Di and Fiamma, alcohol to drink for a midnight feast. After Fiamma become drunk, Miss G take her and sexually assaulted her as Di witness it. After Fiamma find out what Miss G did to her, Fiamma tried to expose Miss G's true colors however Miss G manipulating Di and members of the divining team into beating Fiamma up. After that, Miss G refuses to gave Fiamma an inhaler for asthma as she let her die and tried to put the blame on Di and other students for Fiamma's death. When Di finally realized what she did to Fiamma, she called the teachers about Miss G's true colors, causing her to get fired for good. However due to her fears of going outside, Miss G is stay in a hotel in the rest of her life, continued to get away with it.
Does she had any Freudian excuses and Mitigating Factors? Miss G does had fears of going outside and mental health issues, however she is still capable for her actions and know what is right and wrong, despite her mental health issues. Her fears and mental health issues doesn't excuse the fact that she sexually assaulted Fiamma, as well as grooming, manipulating, giving Di and other students alcohol and also have them beat Fiamma up.
All you see the scenes in the film where Miss G teaching and tell the students about her supposed traveling experiences that were interesting as I mentioned that these were all the parts of the facade that Miss G adopted to grooming the students that were at age between 11 and 16, including Di and Fiamma. She doesn't cared about them as she supposed to, only punished them for no reasons due to Fiamma's actions.
All of Miss G's actions were all shown on the book and the film, such as grooming and psychological abusing Di and other students, stalking, sexually assaulted and let Fiamma died of asthma.
Do she meet the Heinousness Standard?
- Di Radfield - Despite her envious nature towards Fiamma and is responsible for Fiamma's death, was actually been a victim of Miss G during her years at a boarding school as I mentioned that she is groomed by Miss G. When Miss G let Fiamma died of asthma, Di realized what Miss G did and calling the teachers about Miss G, causing Miss G's true colors finally exposed and went on to leave the school to start a new life.
Miss G, on the other hand, never showed remorse for what she did not only to Fiamma, but to Di and other students. Not to mention, she continued to get away with it despite being fired and stay in a hotel because of her fears of going outside. She never showed love or care, only perversion and obsession she had towards Fiamma.
Grooming and manipulating Di and other students, sexually assaulted and let Fiamma died of asthma after being beaten, make Miss G stand out Di in the novel.
Final Verdict I let you guys decided if she fits or not. Thank you.
to Dragud and Onyx.
Abstaining on Palpatine but leaning to "no".
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Lizzid people!
Leaning towards a "no" for this take on Palpy.
Christ, Miss G sounds awful, but...I have to lean just no. One rape/murder by inaction...she's awful and scummy, but I think she just falls short of this.
Likewise don't think she's quite there.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Leaning no to Miss G.
Edited by Bullman on Nov 24th 2020 at 7:20:27 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Emperor Palpatine and Miss G (good first effort post though).
Onyx, Pang and Dragud
Palps (A Rare Sentence) and G
Goku Black
palpatine and miss G
『 』
I tried to EP a Yu-Gi-Oh! card, Lee the World Chalice Fairy, a while back, but it got shot down due to the plot of the World Legacy cards not being decipherable enough to justify her inclusion.
However, it turns out that there's actually an official lore to the World Legacies, so she may be able to qualify after all. Problem is, my old EP for her was made when I didn't know concrete, written lore for the cards actually existed, so it got a lot of things about the World Legacy lore wrong, to the point where I'm going to actually going to redo the EP entirely. Hopefully you'll see that soonish.
Having seen the film too, to Miss G.
Palpy (oddly enough)
Honestly abstain on G, since I think her crimes can be considered “enough” (I will also say her crimes are enough to make you heave)
if that’s the case, can’t wait.
to Palps (thought I never said that) and to the Distaff Counterpart of myself
I’ll just say this before the comment gets taken out of context, G was referring to his name and not that he did anything similar to what she did (obviously no rational person would dream of doing the things she did)
Edited by nwotyzal on Nov 24th 2020 at 10:11:05 AM
Have we looked at the Resident Evil novels, by the way?
Did anyone ever try and effort post Doc Ock from the Ultimate Spider-Man animated series? Besides Wolf Spider, he was arguably one of the darkest villains in that continuity.
