During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Lizzid people!
Similar in that they were both edited by the same user? Don't find it contextual enough, but staying out of this one.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Get a mod to look into it for now. This is mostly just skepticism at this point.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Yeah, let's not go wild here.
An Eldritch Troper
There’s also the suspicion that Ruby and Nora seems to churn as much CMs as possible, judging from the fact that there’s plenty of examples of Moral Event Horizon and the Sociopath.
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
That's not our issue. People can write as they want.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Yeah. I do admit I would rather keep the R&N page. The Alessia page can burn, but R&N seems to at least have a substantial plot.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
As I said, Draxterrus. Get a mod to look into it. Don't start a needless witch hunt.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
We don't need to be hacking every single entry that looks remotely suspect. I'm not even concerned about whether or not Alessa's Fantasies should be on here—if the fic's accessible, whatever. Under the logic we're hacking the examples under, we should technically be cutting Cannibal Ferox for ripping off Cannibal Holocaust.
I know—Ferox had a budget and Alessa's Fantasies is a wimpy little Internet fic that probably took a few hours to write at most. But Tropes does go under the There Is No Such Thing as Notability clause and I think our reasons for hacking this are based on bias and not any actual violation of the rules.
Nobody needs to be cutting anything beyond that, anyway. It's overkill. It's an overreaction. It's certainly not worth getting this worked up about, so I say we make our final decisions on this subject and move on.
Edited by Scraggle on Feb 13th 2020 at 7:59:59 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
...Actually, you do have a point. Especially since it is YOUR story that is allegedly being plagiarized. Maybe we should all cool down?
The Draftsman of Doom
I could go either way on the Alessa stuff. It’s not like I'm ever gonna read it anyway, and I agree that we should move on.
Rawr.
I'm...inclined to agree, actually. Cut the entries, if only that, but...
It's not worth making a big deal over.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
The story seems to be available as a Link exists on the Trope page.
So....Keep them.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
If Scraggle has no issue just moving on, then neither do I
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
I could go either way on the Alessa stuff. But if it's available and Scraggle doesn't have a problem I might lean keep. But I don't care either way. Also I agree that we shouldn't make a big deal.
Edited by Bullman on Feb 13th 2020 at 9:13:18 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Leaning keep myself.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to the Dutchman, Lisbeth, Moriarty, Holda, Meliadus, Morph, Moriarty, and keeping the Alessa's Fantasy entries.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to the demon.
to Moriarty and I could care less about wether the Alessa stuff gets cut or keep. Let’s move on
Goku Black
Morph ans Moraiarty
@N: That's because their part of the same collection. Both moriarties are from Gaslight Grotesque.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Moriarty, Holda, Meliadus, Morph and Moriarty
Parrot Demon
As for the Alessa entries, I also say keep them. They don't even seem to be ripoffs beyond one name that isn't exactly uncommon, unlwss I'm missing something.
Priscilla Rawlins from One Last Kiss (Fear Street Sagas #14) by Brandon Alexander (as R. L. Stine)
The Books: On the surface, nothing appears to be too out of the ordinary in Shadyside, but beneath the surface is the city's dark secret, Fear Street. Named after the illustrious and allegedly cursed Fear family, the street is seemingly a Weirdness Magnet for all manner of horrors and tragedies of both the mundane and the not so mundane varieties.
Who They Are: In 1714, shortly after the birth of her daughter, Eleanor, Priscilla was fed upon and sired by a vampire in her home village of Shadow Glen, Virginia. Enjoying the power that being a vampire granted her, Priscilla abandoned her husband and daughter, and clawed her way up to becoming the queen of her own colony of vampires after leaving Shadow Glen. Priscilla's husband (who was unaware that Priscilla became a vampire) left Shadow Glen shortly after Priscilla's death, aware that a vampire was responsible, and that vampires (under orders from Priscilla) were now stalking and watching over him and Eleanor. Over the next sixteen years, Priscilla proved to be a glutton, gorging herself on a new victim every night, and murdering "too many to count."
What They Do: Eleanor and her father return to Shadow Glen around 1730, followed by Priscilla. Priscilla took over the manor of the village's resident Fier and vampire, Trevor, who she enslaved, which was easy, since Trevor (real name Richard) was a reluctant vampire who fed only on animals. Trevor begins trying to warn Eleanor's father (who is obsessed with destroying vampires) away from Shadow Glen, and falls in love with Eleanor, who Priscilla promises not to harm in exchange for Trevor's continued obedience. While Eleanor and Trevor are out for a walk one night, Priscilla covertly taunts Eleanor from the shadows, and then confronts her husband, demanding that he join her. When the man refuses, Priscilla gives him an "ironic" death by stabbing him in the chest with a wooden stake, leaving his body for Eleanor to find.
After her father's funeral, Eleanor (who Priscilla intends to sire, now that she is old enough for it) is invited to stay at the Fier Manor by Priscilla. Eleanor eventually discovers that Trevor is a vampire, albeit a benevolent one who wants nothing more than to keep her safe. Noticing that Eleanor and Trevor are attracted to each other, Priscilla pressures them into agreeing to marry, telling Trevor that he can have the honor of siring Eleanor. Trevor plays along with Priscilla, when in reality he wants nothing more than to destroy her and save Eleanor. During a midnight ball, attended by Priscilla's vampire servants, one of the servants, for no apparent reason, kills Priscilla's human driver, Ben, by ripping out his heart, which is left in an oven to cook; one of Priscilla's bored "friends" had earlier told Eleanor that vampires allegedly rip out a heart and cook it as a gesture of love towards their chosen bride or groom. When Eleanor stumbles upon Ben's mutilated body, Trevor is outraged by the murder while Priscilla (who feigns obliviousness and horror) is annoyed by her lackeys acting out, so the two send all of the "guests" away before Priscilla pretends to report Ben's death to the local magistrate.
Priscilla later locates, feeds on, and sires Eleanor's only friend, a girl named Annie Muldoon. The plan is to take away everyone and everything that Eleanor cares about so that the loneliness will drive her to willingly accept and embrace being a vampire when the time comes. Eleanor is forced to kill Annie, who has accepted being a vampire because her old life was so miserable, by exposing her to sunlight, before returning to the Fier Manor. While looking for Trevor, Eleanor is happened upon by Priscilla, and while the two mend a dress together, Priscilla reveals to Eleanor that she is a vampire by leading the girl to notice that she has no reflection. As Priscilla makes a grab for her, Eleanor is whisked away by Trevor, who brings her to the roof of the Fier Manor. Trevor explains that Priscilla is Eleanor's mother, and that she killed Eleanor's father, Annie, and countless others, that she wants Eleanor to join her and be Trevor's bride, and that he is only working with her because it was the only way to ensure that no harm would come to Eleanor.
Priscilla confronts the pair, incapacitates Trevor when he gets in her way, and begins trying to goad Eleanor into joining her willingly, all the while taunting her over the deaths of her father and Annie. Since Trevor has turned on her, Priscilla tries to sire Eleanor herself, but Eleanor knocks her off of the roof, and onto a spiked wrought iron fence, which impales (but does not kill) Priscilla. While Priscilla orders Eleanor to help her, Eleanor ignores her and rushes over to Trevor, who brings her down from the roof and onto the lawn, pursued by a recovering Priscilla. Priscilla stabs Trevor with a piece of wood, and returns to trying to sire Eleanor, informing her that she has killed too many to count and that, soon, Eleanor will do the same. The stake that Priscilla stabbed Trevor with missed his heart, and since Priscilla is still fairly weak from being impaled, he is able to keep her occupied and away from Eleanor until dawn, at which point both he and Priscilla burn away, Eleanor managing to give Trevor one last kiss as he dies.
Heinousness: Fear Street vampires (of which she is quite possibly the worst) have an overwhelming hunger for blood, but they are not Always Chaotic Evil, as shown in both this book and others (the Goodnight Kiss duology, How To Be a Vampire, The Thirst, and Drop Dead Gorgeous). She abandoned her family in favor of acquiring power as a vampire, and is noted to have sired and killed countless, as evidenced by the size of her entourage. When her husband refused to join her, she killed him without mercy and as brutally as possible, and it is implied that she was willing to do the same to Eleanor, since, when Eleanor begins calling her a revolting monster who is no longer her mother, Priscilla sneers, "Watch what you say, Daughter. I have the power to take your blood without returning you to life!" As for why she fed on and sired Annie, as Trevor succinctly explains, "She took away everyone that you [Eleanor] cared about so that the loneliness would drive you to us."
Mitigating Factors: Her affection for her daughter was twisted; she wants to turn her into a monster, is positively gleefully at the idea of Eleanor becoming a killing machine like herself, and, as noted above, implied that she'd be willing to kill her if things did not work out.
She had no apparent fondness for her largely faceless vampire minions; Trevor notes that they have become weak, hungry and disgruntled while Priscilla neglects them to hang around Shadow Glen, and that because of this they will simply scatter and not bother to try and avenge her or do anything else of the sort if she were to die.
Goku Black
Priscilla
Priscilla
to Priscilla
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
for Priscilla.
I’ve only taken a look at the trope pages for the two works and noticed they’re somewhat similar. I’ll let others give the proof if they wish to.
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.