During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
IT's YMMV, but yeah, some of those need to be cut and the leather pants on Yhwach as presented in the manga is frustrating with some of the fandom.
Especially given he kills Haschwalth with no remorse.
Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 20th 2019 at 5:56:37 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
@Lightysnake- Just tell me which ones to cut and why.
Edited by MasterN on Oct 20th 2019 at 6:02:04 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Caesar
'Yes' to McCoy, Gaga and Medusa.
For my likely final Joe proposal for this batch, here's one more version of Firefly. From G.I. Joe Reloaded, an alternate universe miniseries that presents the G.I. Joes and Cobra in a more "realistic" setting.
Who is he? What has he done?
Firefly here is Cobra's pyrotechnic saboteur extraordinaire, able and willing to destroy anything and anyone Cobra requests of him, all while listening to Classical music like Beethoven and Mozart.
Committing one of Cobra's most horrific attacks in the story by bombing the Golden Gate Bridge and killing dozens of people, Firefly later tries to bomb a military transport and kill several generals and soldiers on Cobra's orders, before assisting Cobra in an attempt to steal the Constitution.
Firefly later makes his way to Saudi Arabia, where he bombs a passing supplies train, killing the workers aboard except one, who Firefly personally executes by gunning him down even as the man begs for mercy, before raiding the train for supplies he needs.
Massacring the security guards and occupants of Saudi Arabia's oil refinery—also one the world's largest source of oil—Firefly rigs the refinery to explode, threatening to blow it up and destroy countless amounts of oil lest Cobra is paid 10 billion dollars.
As Firefly sets mines all around the area that kill anyone who approaches, he is contacted by Cobra Commander, who threatens Firefly to tone down his explosive nature and stick to their plan lest the Commander have him shot.
Firefly is eventually defeated when the G.I. Joe Rock N Roll tracks him down and duels him, revealing to Firefly that the madman killed his girlfriend when he bombed the Golden Gate Bridge, a fact which Firefly promptly laughs about and mocks Rock N Roll for, promising to send him to his grave to join his girl soon enough.
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?
Nada. He's a crazy, fire-loving loonie who gets his kicks blowing things up, even remarking he'd find it hilarious if the train he blows up doesn't even have the supplies he needs on it.
Before executing a cowering victim, Firefly remarks that the world is full of pain and that Cobra is going to change it, but sacrifices have to be made ("Too bad today's sacrifice is you."), but it's made painfully obvious that Firefly is using Cobra as nothing but a means to carry out his sadistic fantasies, even reveling in the fact that he's nothing but evil "trash".
Heinousness?
Classic Psycho for Hire here. Firefly kills dozens and dozens of people, threatens to destroy an oil refinery, and mocks Rock N Roll over his girlfriend's death, and is easily the most obvious, in-your-face bastard of the comic besides Cobra Commander himself. No one approaches Firefly in personal murder, and his sadistic nature puts him a head above fellow Cobra agents.
Final Verdict?
A Keep indeed.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to another Firefly.
Wild Child
Firefly.
Yes there, cut Pet the Dog and Even Evil Has Standards.
Mc Coy, Gaga and Firefly
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
1048
to Firefly
Self-Declared King of Everything
Firefly.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
to Firefly, and the entries were cut as you requested, @Lightysnake.
So why did Even Evil Has Standards and Pet the Dog not apply to him? I am asking in case the edit is restored and I will need to PM the troper.
Edited by MasterN on Oct 20th 2019 at 6:18:43 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Firefly. Curious, what about his live action movie counterpart, does he have a chance on counting?
Yes to Firefly.
Caesar
@Michael: Nah, he's not heinous enough. He kills a few people and crosses the Moral Event Horizon when he tries to prevent the Joes from stopping Z.E.U.S. from annihilating another city and killing thousands, but he's not even the one who personally orchestrates it; he's just ordered by the Commander to prevent the Joes from stopping it, and that's what he tries to do.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Ok, that makes sense.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Okay I have a question. Do the Neverwhere keepers only count in the novel? Because if not shouldn't they be on Live-Action TV? Since from my research the show aired first.
Edited by Bullman on Oct 20th 2019 at 8:54:03 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
The novel expands much more.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Okay thanks. I was just wondering.
Lighty, any opinion on the small addition I suggested to the recent Attack on Titan write up?
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
to Firefly
Oh, I'm fine with it, Lore.
I figured him being the main Satan analogue to the Marley religion was an important enough tidbit to add.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
OK, so to recap, I came forward to rectify the CM entry for the Herrscher of Corruption on Honkai Impact 3rd because ElfenLiedFan90's original EP reeks of plagiarism from the Villains Wiki (and he even admitted on the HI3 forum thread that he got his info on the Herrscher from a friend).
That is bad faith enough, but then I brought forward a mitigating factor that was overlooked during the approval process, and now the entry is headed for a cut with about 6 tropers acknowledging the mitigating factor's weight and at least 4 following my three previous posts.
I knew that the writeup was in poor form the moment I saw that the sequence of events was wrong, and I had reservations for CM qualifications given that the 12th's story ends rather peacefully in spite of all the deaths and suffering it caused.
"They played us like a DAMN FIDDLE!" — Kazuhira Miller, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
I'm not gonna make any accusations or anything, but it sounds like she should be cut.
Hey, Yhwach, an approved CM, was brought up in the Hate Sink thread to be cut, and I noticed these entries on his character page:
Should we cut these? A CM cannot have any redeeming qualities, but these entries claim he does.
Edited by MasterN on Oct 20th 2019 at 5:52:48 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.