During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I do think Black Lightning season 2 has a candidate, as well as another character who might end up counting in season 3 so we'll put on watchful waiting.
Foreign Troper
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Talking about Looker?
Or Dr Jace?
Shin Megami Tensei IV
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
The Bishop
Also. I usually get my CM from manga. I've tried to expand my ratio, so I am trying some western comicbooks as well.
Watch me destroying my country
Looker is the candidate for now, Dr. Jace is the one we'll wait on for season 3.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Alright, re-read the scene on Tetragrammaton Labyrinth again. Here's the relationship regarding Hugh Williams that give me the pause:
So, to give you the details, when Hugh was defeated by the protagonist, he summoned his master, Prelati, so that Prelati could aid him to defeat the protagonist. Except...There's also a scene like when Hugh says that he's sorry to Prelati by causing so much trouble and when Prelati let him inhabit his body, Hugh stated that he can't think of greater honor on becoming one with Prelati. Here's the chapter in question regarding Hugh Williams last appearance
So uh... Not feeling Hugh Williams is a no-go unless if you think it's not mitigating enough and I still tempt on EP him.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Probably disqualifying then
Foreign Troper
By all means go ahead and do the EP. I have too much other stuff going on right now.
Edit: Since nobody took it so far, I reserved Legends Season 5. But if somebody wants it, PM me!
Edited by Forenperser on Jun 5th 2019 at 3:54:14 PM
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Yeah, I could probably do that. She only appears in a couple episodes so that shouldn't require too much reading to refresh my memory.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@Lightysnake Oh well... Thanks for the heads up though. Even though there aren't any qualifiers. I'd say the manga's pretty good. Probably you could say this manga is a female version of Chrono Crusade set in the Victorian Era 
@43110 I have a feeling u will be interested in this manga :3
Anyways, anyone got another EP for now?
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
I'll have some later, but Baldur's Gate 3 is happening. Calling it, happy to share with others, but fucking calling it
Meh, just another Forgotten Realms game. Now tell me they're releasing a modern day Planescape RPG and then I'll get excited.
Planescape is as dead as orcus sadly...
The Lord Of Walruses
Ok, first EP. Here we go.
‘’’What’s The Work?’’’
Madhouse is a 1974 movie starring Vincent Price and Peter Cushing. It’s about Prices character Paul Toombes, who is an actor famous for being the title villain of the fictional Dr. Death movies. During a party after the release of the latest Dr. Death film, he gets into an argument with his fiancé Ellen, causing her to run away into her room in tears. Paul goes to her to apologize, but he finds her decapitated. Pauls is tried for the murder and acquitted, but he goes insane, not sure if he killed her, and his career is destroyed. He is institutionalized for a few years because of the murder.
Some time later, he is released, he is contacted by his friend and writer Herbert Flay, played by Cushing, to reprise his role as Dr. Death for a tv show. He reluctantly agrees, given the Flay is in need of money, but soon a masked killer shows up and bodies begin piling up on the shows set, with the killings being done in similar fashion to certain kills in Dr. Death movies.
The CM is the masked killer, AKA Herbert Flay
‘’’Who is Herbert Flay? What has he done?’’’
Herbert Flay is a screenwriter, as well as the masked killer who is hellbent in destroying Toombes. In the prologue of the movies, he is the man who kills Toombes fiancé Ellen, by decapitating her with a knife after dressing up like Dr. Death. This, again, sends Toombes into a mental breakdown, ruining his life, sanity, and career.
When Toombes is released, he gets him to star as Dr. Death for the new Dr. Death tv show. Prior to filming, he kills an actress who accosted Toombes on a ship on his way to the shooting in England, by stabbing her with a pitchfork. The police suspect Toombes, but do not have enough evidence to arrest him.
Later, after Paul looses his temper at an actress, he kills her during a party, by strangling her and hanging her by her hair. Scotland Yard once against suspects Toombes, but finds not evidence for his arrest.
After that, Herbert is able to lure in the parents of the actress he killed with the pitchfork (They were blackmailing Toombes throughout the movie for money, as one of his belongings were found on her). After luring them inside his home, he impales then on a sword, hiding their corpses in his house.
Afterwards, he begins gunning for Toombes himself. He rigs a falling canopy to crush whoever is under it via tampering with the control device. He fails to kill Paul, but only out of sheer luck, as the director was demonstrating it for him. This causes the director to be crushed to death in his place.
Later that night, he begins chasing Paul throughout the studio, almost killing him multiple times. Paul escapes, but his public relations rep, Julia, ends up decapitated in a similar way to Ellen after he finds out Herbert’s plan. After finding Julia’s body, Paul’s has another breakdown, once again unsure if he is really behind the killings. In his delirious state, Paul drags Julia’s body to the Dr. Death set, turns on the main camera, and apparently commits suicide by burning himself alive, intent on taking Dr. Death with him.
After Paul’s is believed to be dead, Herbert is handed the tape of Paul’s death by the shows producer. He watches the film at home with clear satisfaction of his face until he is ambushed by Toombes, who is still alive. Realizing that Herbert was behind all of his misery, he asks who he did what he did.
During his big end of movie rant, it turns out that Herbert wrote the part of Dr. Death for himself, but the part was given to Paul. Angry over being chosen over, he killed Ellen to get Paul arrested for murder, seeing the argument as the perfect opportunity to frame him. After Paul was institutionalized, Herbert tried to keep the series going with himself as the star, but the studio believed that only Paul could be Dr. Death. When he got Paul onboard for the tv show, he saw an opportunity to get the part, via a clause in a contract, stating that if Paul’s is unable to be Dr. Death, the Herbert Flay will take the part. As such, Herbert has been trying to either frame or kill Paul to steal his role.
After his rant, the two begin to fight. Just before he is about to kill Paul, Herbert is stabbed by his wife Faye. He then falls into a terrarium full of spiders Faye was taking care of, killing him.
‘’’Heinousness?’’’
Sets it. He kills 7 people, 2 of which (the blackmailing parents of his first victim) were entirely pointless, as their deaths did nothing to advance his agenda.
I think it is also worth mentioning that his overall motive, being passed over for a movie part, is extremely petty and selfish, which I think makes the killing more heinous.
‘“Mitigating factors?’’’
He has a wife, and let’s her have a crypt full of spiders in his basement, but he only directly mentions her once and their only on screen interaction is Faye killing Flay, so I don’t think that really counts.
‘’’Conclusion?’’’
I think he would be a fine addition.
I have no idea what I am doing
Son of a bitch, there was a Cushing keeper we missed.
Enthusiastic yes
Goku Black
Flay
Is this cushing's second cm right other then Tarkin.
Edited by miraculous on Jun 5th 2019 at 9:30:52 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Third. Dr. Frankenstein counted thanks to the films ruining his character and turning him into a rapist monster.
Not my favorite example I’ve put up.
to Flay and the Joffrey pic.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
The wifi here sucks
to Herbert Flay.
That's a great opener Seltzer.
Foreign Troper
Alright, since The Flash doesn't really require an effortpost, I'm done with it faster than with the Diaz thing^ ^ Really, there isn't THAT much to talk about.
- Both Cicadas are 100% clear no-nos. Both act out of grief for a loved one. Way overboard, sure, but that doesn`t change that they have redeeming qualities. And no, Grace killing her Uncle doesn't mean that she shed her love for him.
- Now for Eobard Thawne, that's a little more interesting. He seems a changed man while making his appearance in the Season, trying to help Nora Allen (Barry's daughter, future version) getting ahold of her powers and reuiniting her with her father. But much to everybodys shock, all of this was just a ruse, part of a huge, convoluted plan to save himself from being finally put to death for his numerous crimes. Short version: He sends Nora back to change the timeline, so that a new Cicada will take the original ones place (well, it was 2, but thats just a minor hiccup). The original Cicada, David Hersch, was such a sly and competent villain that Team Flash was never able to catch him. Now with the new Cicada(s), Thawne gamble is that the team is able to stop him/them. Why does he care about that so much? Well, because Cicada's dagger (which can de-power metahumans) is used to keep him in check at Iron Heights. So once they destroy the dagger in the present, it will disappear in the future and he is free to escape. Yeah, that's really whats happening. And lo and behold, despite Barry being incredibly angry at his daughter for buying into Thawne's manipulation and banishing her for about an episode or so, it actually works. Thawne is set free, proceeds to massacre the guards (swiftly undone by Barry and Nora, thankfully) and engages in a fierce battle with his old arch nemesis and his team. He is beaten, but then something horrible happens: Nora starts dissolving, being erased from existence, due to the significant changes to the timeline. Thawne, despite having manipulated the poor girl all along, says that he did genuinely become fond of Nora and suggests to both her and Barry to enter the Negative Speed Force, as it is the only place where she`ll be immune to timeline changes. Nora ultimately declines, not wanting to become a monster like Thawne in the process. Barry is heartbroken, while Thawne makes his escape, telling him that he'll meet him during "his next crisis" (possible alluding to the Crisis on Infinite Earths event, which is now moved 5 years earlier in the new timeline). So, to me it felt exactly like the situation with Cisco 4 years back. He did genuinely grow close to Nora while manipulating her, but still puts his own survival first. In my book, that disqualifies him. You may disagree, but it's ultimately a moot point to discuss, since Thawne's arc clearly isn't over yet. I'm looking forward to a summarizing effortpost on him by Fried, when his story finally comes to a close in the future. It's gonna be a huge one, thats for sure.
- Did I forget anything? Hope not. Can't remember any minor villain this season that might qualify. Quite a weak season, in retrospect, I might add.
Edited by Forenperser on Jun 5th 2019 at 6:29:04 PM
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Goku Black
How about this pic off Joffrey Baretheon
◊ ?
DDD: That's fine. I'll just add an "eight-year-old" before "brother".
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts