During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah but story heinous standards need to still be taken into account. Van Zant killed dozens of people, that doesn't automatically make him count in a verse where planetary genocide is standard villany.
Gentle Laborer
Planetary genocide? Geez. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Robert
Goku Black
I mean he kills two people in a work where there's villains who have done messed up shit like burning down half a town and killing hundreds (Oswald Manse) and being a Serial Killer who cuts off the hands of his victim's (Mr Toggle). That really is not enough.
It's uh Dragon Ball. It Makes Sense in Context
Edited by miraculous on Nov 26th 2018 at 12:27:24 PM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Do the others kill there families?
I ask becuase to me...murdering your own family is a much more personnel type of villainy then otherwise.
For example Shou Tucker, His crimes are turning a woman and child into animals for his own benefit, a terrible thing but...mass genocide or atleast assistance in it is essentially his franchise standard. However, its the fact that its not just a random woman and child, but his own wife and daughter that elevates him from "disgusting human being" to "absolute monster".
Edited by Kylotrope on Nov 26th 2018 at 12:44:02 PM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Speaking of not heinous enough... After I reached my mark of 10th female CM (which is achieved by proposing Sarah Warren btw), I really want to cut a candidate that I had in mind for a long time and I want to say this:
Ariel from Totally Spies needs to go ASAP.
I'd be honest with you guys, I wasn't happy with my EP and consider it to be one of my least favorite E Ps of all time ever since I joined due to rushing things up without listening the points of MGD and A New Man and I severely overlooked the heinous standard as I literally forgot about the show again.
And no, I literally don't like her inclusion and her EP as it was rushly made without conducting a research and I really really want to cut her posthaste. Why you may ask? Because I don't feel that she is heinous enough for the trope given in the series, there are some villains who also endanger the Earth following MGD's points such as that Guru who tries to crash some continents, Tim Scam who attempts to dry the ocean and anything that is Water related, Violet who has a same MO as Ariel but with a little bit of Freudian Excuse or Dr. Geelee who attempts to plunge the world into a new Ice Age...
So yeah, I think Ariel falls in short in heinousness and I'm not sad if I cut this candidate that I proposed a year ago as I'm not literally happy with my EP and her inclusion. If only she came back in future episodes and commits more worse crimes, I would be happy if I propose her but its unlikely that she come back mainly because the writer seems to forgot her so yeah...
Tl;dr Cut Ariel from Totally Spies and I won't lose any sleep after her getting cut unless if there is a new info for her if she comes back which is unlikely.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Nov 26th 2018 at 4:07:47 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Goku Black
I mean Roberts is the ruler of an entire country though. Manse is just a teenage Thug while Toggle only has a robot.
At least Tucker is the Low tier of his work. Roberts despite being on a higher tier than thoose people isn't anywhere near as bad.
Edited by miraculous on Nov 26th 2018 at 1:10:37 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Unless I'm miskaten He didn't have that power until he started killing some of his family members like the king.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Any thoughts on me cutting one of my older candidates Ariel?
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
@Kylotrope: Still had the resources of a noble. If it was made clesr that he killed a large number of his extended family, he might have had a chance, but as is? Hard no.
@Elfen: I'll look at her writeup in the morning.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Hm, I see your point. Not that it seems to matter much I still say yes under my "Killing family is much more personnel unsympathetic" princible.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Hmm.....not sure on Ariel. It seems like she has a fairly high intended body count, but I will wait for some more arguments.
Goku Black
Uh cut away.
Bad on paper but the episode (like with Rowan) never really gives it the weight needed.
Plus plenty of badguys have tried something on that scale before. So it's not really unique.
Edited by miraculous on Nov 26th 2018 at 1:46:01 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Shin Megami Tensei IV
So, Uh, reserving Midnight Occult Civil Servants. That series sound like my cup of Peruvian Lemon Grass (not a big fan of tea)
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Why not?
Edited by KazuyaProta on Nov 26th 2018 at 6:52:59 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@Kazuya You mean Mayonaka? Welp... I reserve it first too. Wanna collab with that again?
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ariel: I don't know the series, but a n uber-misandrist who tries to kill all men seems rather unique.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
And? Violet also aims the same goal as Ariel to kill some men with her poisonous flowers due to her failed relationship with her boyfriend. So it isn't unique anymore IMO.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Nov 26th 2018 at 9:21:21 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Lizzid people!
So, the only hesitation I have there is whether or not the weight of the situation is there or not. Won't say "cut," just want more clarification.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Mmmm pardon Austin?
EDIT: Think I'm rather torn on Ariel right now... I do want to cut her but then again, there's another attempt at trying to eradicate not only just men. But also women who are weaker than her group. But still... We have Dr. Geelee, who tries to freeze the planet, That unnamed Guru who merge the continents and balance the globe into a yin yang image which has a potential to destroy the world and we have Tim Scam...
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Nov 26th 2018 at 9:38:01 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Goku Black
Uh guys I did a count.
When ariel was approved the vote count was 7 ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
and 3 . Meaning she shouldn't have gone up anyway.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Yeah, think we can safely cut her.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
It’s the 26th of November. Time to talk about the new HITMAN.
Sorry but, nobody counts.
The Shadow Client turned out to be an Anti Villain, has standards (not wanting to hurt truley innocent people) and has people he cares about.
The Constant is just the middle man between the Providence leadership and the field agents, who hasn’t done anything heinous by himself. He also had a genuine friendship with his mentor, the previous Constant .
The leaders of Providence aka the Partners, are finally introduced in this game. Considering that they are they ones responsible for everything Providence has done, one or more of them could be a potential CM candidate. But as of now we know almost nothing about them. So we’re having to wait until the next game, where they probably going to play a bigger role.
As for the individual targets of each mission: As surprisingly large number of them is committing on-screen murders. Most of them, however, have redeeming qualities and none of them passes the heinous standards. One or two on-screen murders aren’t enough in a franchise with people like Edward Wade (only CM so far), Reza Zaydan (who was down voted) or the cult from Patient Zero (who doesn’t count because they are a group).
Finally, there are two planned expansions featuring new levels with new targets. Once they’ve been released, I’ll take a look at them in case there’s a potential candidate.
But for now, that’s it. If you’re disagree with my opinion and think the game has a CM feel free to make an EP for whoever you’ve in mind.
I asked this a few days ago but it wasn't really answered by anybody, so I'll ask again.
What's the border for when characters that are fictional in universe can qualify for CM, such as Junko Enoshima and the Are You Afraid of the Dark? examples, and when they can't?
Goku Black
Wait Junko Enoshima ?
What's that about
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
....He...Murdered his entire family....inclduing his niece and nephew Unpopular ophinon...but![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Things are really about to get Fun around here