During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Nancy and Bizon
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Sefetu
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So, Dr. Wily will make 20 entries in music. Time to separate it from Other Media? Either way, the section needs some SERIOUS work. Besides de-potholing, the formatting needs to be consistent, and the entries aren't all alphabetized correctly.
If we DO split it, I feel we could probably get a kickass image from Udoroth. Quotes shouldn't be a problem.
Edited by ACW on Oct 4th 2018 at 4:51:04 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Anymore votes/thoughts on my suggested quote
I can snatch a pic from Udoroth when I'm off.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
V
@Beast Could you PM me later when you've watched it to say if anyone counts?
Now, here’s another effort post on a character from a Betrayal at House on the Hill custom haunt. Unlike the other one I proposed, this character I’m conflicted on (there was a second character I was considering proposing alongside this one, the Demon Lord who appears in multiple haunts, but ultimately decided that they’re too much of a GDV). This character isn’t a Traitorous explorer. It’s not a demon. And it’s not a gigantic snake that can encircle the earth. This candidate is...
a dog.
Who is it? What does it do?
In most haunts, the dog is an omen card as well as a traveling companion that buffs the might and speed of whoever has it. In the haunt Reeking of Death however, the dog is the Big Bad of the haunt. Carrying a mysterious object that releases toxic fumes (the haunt leaves what the object is to imagination) that will either slowly kill people who inhale the fumes, or do that while also driving them mad. The explorer who failed the haunt roll comes across the dog, noted to have the stench of corpses on it, the dog drops the object near the explorer, and the explorer goes mad from the fumes, being driven to believe that the entire world needs to fall victim to the cursed object. The explorer then pretty much dies while their body helps the dog spread the toxic fumes throughout the house (not quite a zombie, but a mentally broken husk with the heroic explorers noting their eyes have no life in them)
The player who failed the haunt roll controls both the explorer who went insane and the dog. They win when over half of the explorers are dead, which can be done the old fashion way through combat rolls, or bringing the object to rooms the heroic explorers are in, where they have to roll to protect themselves from the toxic fumes, where if they fail, they take physical damage, and if they roll a 0, mental damage as well. The heroes win by either taking the object, risking their own lifes due to always being in the room where there’s poisonous fumes, and purifying it (either by throwing it into a lake or into a furnace) or escaping from the house, which is easier said than done as for this haunt, it’s been locked and barricaded, requiring multiple might rolls and knowledge rolls to unlock.
If the traitor (as in the player) wins, the toxic fumes cause the house to decay to nothing, as the dog happily watches every explorer die. It then picks up the object, and goes to another area to continue the spread.
Heinous by the standards of the story?
Yeah, I’d say so. If what the explorer was corrupted to think by the dog is anything to go by, the dog wished to have the toxic fumes spread throughout the entire world, using the fumes to slowly torture it’s victims to death both physically and mentally. It has a very slow method of wiping out life though since it’s plan is basically to go to settlement to settlement to have the fumes kill the people within them.
Nope. The dog is doing it purely out of enjoyment.
Any other mitigating factors?
Now the fact that the dog doesn’t talk, or communicate in ways beyond what a regular dog would do does cause me to wonder if it qualifies. The narration does explicitly state how it actively searches for places to corrupt, and considering how the dog actively corrupts one of the explorers for help in killing the others does make it clear that it’s smarter than the average dog, so moral agency isn't an issue. But when the only way it shows it has personality is wagging its tail happily at the destruction, I’m feeling really conflicted if there’s enough characterization.
Final Thoughts?
Your call.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to the quote.
Here's a possible caption for Udoroth: "Udoroth: Fear his name. Mercy is not authorized in his domain."
Unsure on the dog.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Abstaining on the dog for now.
But speaking of Betrayal at House on the Hill: Any reason why Crimson Jack from Stacked Like Cordwood isn't a CM? Does he care about the Traitor?
Crimson Jack seems too insane to count. He never talks and is constantly smiling even when being murdered by the cursed weapon that kills for good
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up. 
I'm... saying no to this random dog.
Also, since I should've done this a while ago? There's a standard problem. Honestly? I don't think we can keep all these traitors especially when all of them are dealing in similar niches of villainy.
The traitors from Ring of King Solomon and Comes a Hero each go for an apocalyptic goal but neither seem as bad as the one from The Stars are Right (who seems a carbon copy of Comes a Hero's in terms of deeds on top of running a cult that kills countless people).
A Little Night Murder's traitor only seems to have a claim to fame in terms of betraying and killing their family members, and the one from Voodoo doesn't even seem to have that — otherwise? The one from Stacked Like Cordwood and The Feast seem quite a bit worse in the "serial killer" department.
Could we please comment on this this time, as well? The last time I brought this up, I don't think many even bothered to comment.
I'm kinda with Scraggle hre. It's far too much and they only seem to be getting too blended together now.
No to the dog. It just acts like a dog. I agree on the heinous standard concerns. If it was like Ys than maybe it wouldn't be an issue that characters are similar in crimes considering how those games aren't all canon. That doesn't seem to be how it is here though.
Edited by Knack on Oct 4th 2018 at 4:19:43 AM
To Nancy and Bizon
to The Dog and Safetu. the latter's list crimes seems about the same a Rufio except on a much smaller scale compared to Rufio.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Honestly, for House, I'm fine with whatever. Just let me know when/if we cut and I can merge with the main page.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Alright, ACW, how's this
◊ for Udoroth? And a caption:
"Udoroth, the demon lord! / Laying waste to man's dominion with his horde! / A reign of fear and carnage that shall be restored!"
Edited by Scraggle on Oct 4th 2018 at 5:30:07 AM
I really do think we need to look through it at this point. With the sheer number of haunts and the increasingly twisted crimes, there's some problems with tier and overshadowing going on here.
Like I've got a number of DND villains, but we're talking maybe a few dozen standouts out of hundreds of modules
Udoroth is the gift that keeps on giving when it comes to quotes. I'm fond of "flesh and gore are such a bore without the wail" myself.
Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 4th 2018 at 4:34:32 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ooh, that caption's even better than the one I thought of. Only issue with the image? He...looks evil, but where's the evil act? It looks like he's gloating over a fiery crystal ball. Cool image though.
Also, Lighty, I know it's been around for like 40+ years, but does D&D have literally hundreds of modules? Damn!
Edited by ACW on Oct 4th 2018 at 7:35:05 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
How about "A soul so loathsome, even demons tremble / His name is misery, depraved, divine"? Or "All who stand before him shall be made to crawl"?
He's holding a burning earth there.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Oh, well then ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
I stand WILDLY corrected
Here we go:
Edited by ACW on Oct 4th 2018 at 7:38:51 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I prefer most of all that one with the burning Earth, but if you need something more direct? The image that accompanies
◊ "flesh and gore are such a bore without the wails."
Seriously. Keep asking until you're satisfied, he has multitudes.
I'd argue that the Voodoo traitor is worse than the Stacked Like Cordwood and Feast traitors since their not only a serial killer like them, but deliberately puts most of the dolls in places that'll kill them slowly (burnt alive, buried alive, impaled by thorns, and dark forces slowly breaking the person's mind). But yeah, I also agree about reinstigating some of them. Even within the effort posts, I stated how I was conflicted with the Little Nights Murder and Creature From The Lake traitors.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Oct 4th 2018 at 8:02:29 AM
I say at the least? Cut the traitors from Comes a Hero, A Little Night Murder, Ring of Solomon, and I'm not averse to cutting the ones from The Deep and Voodoo.
What say we all? The page is here.
