During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Gentle Laborer
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to the 5 Elementos trio but a heavy, heavy ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Lewis. As a former Villains Wiki Trusted User, i have zero tolerance towards plagiarism.
Just because other users did it doesn't mean it isn't plagiarism. No to Dodgson if you haven't read the novel yourself.
No to Boar.
Edited by Knack on Sep 2nd 2018 at 4:32:56 AM
Going with a nay to Toshiko. She's outheinoused by Rabbit and doesn't stikc out enough, and despite being awful and ruthless, her ultimate wish of a harem relates to her desire to be loved by others, stemming from her issues and loneliness, thanks to her father's horrible upbringing.
Juni Taisen is full of shitty people doing shitty things, and Rabbit is a flat out Serial Killer who murders individuals to revive them, and plans to cause a Zombie Apocalypse...it's not even resources because if Toshiko won Juni Taisen, she could do whatever she wanted anyways.
Edited by Lightysnake on Sep 2nd 2018 at 1:45:29 AM
Gentle Laborer
to Boar. Having seen the anime, Rabbit is way more awful.
Goku Black
Dodgson and Boar
Edited by miraculous on Sep 2nd 2018 at 1:45:22 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
No, I meant that because I've seen other users doing it without consequences, I'm assuming that it's okay to do it.
Lord of Hell
her ultimate wish of a harem relates to her desire to be loved by others, stemming from her issues and loneliness.
I...don't recall that ever being hinted. At least in the anime anyway. Fair enough about the other point though.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Sep 2nd 2018 at 4:47:22 AM
She says it herself, as I recall: to have a harem of endless men to love her, and she has clear issues with how her father raised her
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Example? One of our main tenets is to have at least checked the work out yourself. I use wikis to give me a refresher at times, but I make certain I read/watch/listen to whatever I'm proposing from
Edited by Lightysnake on Sep 2nd 2018 at 1:48:16 AM
To The 5 Elementos, Lighty’s candidates, and Dormammu
to Dobson and boar
Edited by G-Editor on Sep 1st 2018 at 11:36:25 PM
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Oh man, that series seems fucked up. realize what he had reserved
Eh. I can really judge?
...yeah. I can
Abstain Boar
Edited by KazuyaProta on Sep 2nd 2018 at 4:06:45 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Lord of Hell
Oh, I remember her saying that she wanted to be loved, but it didn't strike me as anything close to symoathetic or out of loneliness. She says that she deserves a harem due to being an heiress. It was to show her ego, and provide a contrast to the scenes where Chicken and Horse reveal what their wish would be. It's notably played much more comedically than most of the other fighters going over their wishes.
(sigh) You guys need to calm down. I don't even use this site that often, and even though I used a disclaimer and everything, and there are other users who were allowed to do it, you guys are still getting pissed at me and accusing me for plagiarism, rather than giving genuine opinions on the character in question.
Edited by Looperreallyreallyrocks on Sep 2nd 2018 at 1:53:59 AM
I want to know who else was allowed to do that. Nobody is getting pissed at you, we're just saying this is a practice we tend to discourage.
Yeah, looper. Read the novel yourself then make the proposal. That way you can be confident that nothing is being left out.
to Master Nicodemo Darque, Dormammu and The Queen of Dark Horizons.
Gentle Laborer
How can we give opinions if it is plagiarism?
"But a heavy, heavy to Lewis. As a former Villains Wiki Trusted User, i have zero tolerance towards plagiarism." Well, that sounded a bit too harsh. And also, whether the proposal is "plagiarism" or not, it still contains information given by other people who actually read the novels. Therefore, it's more than possible to give opinions. And I can't remember exactly who did this kind of stuff before, but over on VW, someone proposed Piper from Scream using the same method I did, and got away with it scot-free. And on this site, I think someone proposed Shaw from Fast and Furious 6 once using the "copy everything from VW" method, and no one gave a damn. So please stop gaining up on me, and give actual opinions, please.
Goku Black
Didnt Shaw care about his mother and you know turn kinda good in a later movie. Why would somone ep him ?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Gentle Laborer
Yeah, okay. Do you at least know if his worst actions are Offstage Villainy or not?
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
And you know this... how?
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Sep 2nd 2018 at 6:11:32 AM
Off screen, but he has an attempted murder on screen, and I'm sure the effects of the murders can be seen on screen.
Edited by Looperreallyreallyrocks on Sep 2nd 2018 at 2:09:28 AM
OK, let's just nip this in the bud.
Because effortposts here should be made by people who are familiar with the work, the expectation is that the majority content of the effortpost is not taken from elsewhere. Whether it is true or not, it introduces doubt as to the credibility of the troper's knowledge of the work.
In short, it's best practice to avoid copying/pasting someone else's thoughts. Regardless if someone else has "gotten away with it".
Now, kindly move back to regular thread business.
Never mind.
Edited by Looperreallyreallyrocks on Sep 2nd 2018 at 2:16:15 AM
V
Looper, you're not coming across as very reasonable yourself. Lighty asked you a question, you throw a hissy fit, then you state that we should calm down. Please make up your mind friendo.
Also, are the effects shown? "I'm sure they are"... see, this is why plagiarisn isn't allowed. If you don't know what happened yourself, and you're simply relying on one person's information, then it is hard to trust it.
Now make a regular effortpost, with information gathered by yourself reading the novel, and I'm comfortable giving a .
@The Mad Cr0w What's your VW Username?
Edited by MenInGreyToBlak on Sep 2nd 2018 at 11:17:01 AM
Goku Black
Uh thats not answering the question. Is the stuff with the rabies virus gotten into. Its a book, so the more descriptive the evil acts are described a than it passes into offscreen villany. If its just glanced on and briefly mentioned than it is indeed Offstage Villany and cant count towards him qualifying.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Abstaining on Dodgson.
Got another effort post for the thread.
What’s the work?
Juni Taisen Zodiac War is a light-novel turned anime about how an organization that hosts the Zodiac War, or Juni Taisen, a battle royale to the death between twelve combatants, usually war heroes or mercenaries, each representing one of the twelve Eastern Zodiacs, where the winner will receive on wish of their choice.
Despite the premise, the episodes usually don’t spend too much time on showing fights, but rather focuses on the backstory and/or plans of one of the fighters, usually giving them A Death in the Limelight. Sometimes the centered character is cast in a sympathetic light like with Monkey and Tiger. Sometimes they’re a Jerkass Woobie like with Chicken. And for the character to be the center of the first episode, well...I’m proposing her as a CM for a reason.
Who is she? What does she do?
Toshiko Inō, A.K.A, Boar, is a daughter of the winner of the previous Zodiac war, and is part of a rich distinguished family that also acts as mercenaries. While in the light novels I don’t believe she counts due to Offscreen Villainy from what I looked up, the Adaptation Expansion in the anime certainly helps that issue.
When Toshiko finds out that her younger sister, Kiyoko, has been chosen over her to represent the boar in the next Juni Taisen, Toshiko grows furious, and makes it her mission to make sure that doesn’t happen.On Kiyoko’s first mission on the field, Toshiko pressures her to kill the captured enemy soldiers knowing full well that Kiyoko isn’t ready to kill humans yet. After kissing the boy Kiyoko has a crush on right in front of her out of spite, Toshiko later “trains” her younger sister by regularly having her torture prisoners to death, traumatizing her sister.
This went on for multiple years, with Toshiko manipulating Kiyoko to rid herself of all mercy and compassion. Kiyoko starts to snap and, as planned by Toshiko, murders several of her classmates. Tohsiko tells and how killing humans is no different than killing animals, something that Kiyoko enjoyed. This leads Kiyoko to eventually snap, and murder all of the servants in their home laughing madly afterwards, horrifying their parents. Her father puts her in a cage, deeming her unable to compete in the Juni Taisen, but this isn’t enough for Toshiko. Toshiko then goes to her mentally broken, kill crazy younger sister, and after breaking her further by saying how there’s far more people to kill and how that’s what the family wants, she slides a knife into her sister’s cage, and walks away. I’ll leave you guys to guess what Kiyoko does next.
Later on, in an episode that shows how the fighter who represented the Monkey, Misaki Yūki, managed to force a ceasefire between two neighboring nations who were having a decades long war over territory, by convincing countless citizens of both sides, soldiers included, to desert and take residence within that territory. It’s revealed that Toshiko was a general (not revealed of which nation though) and that she and the other generals formed an allied force to wipe out the “rebel army”, happily attacking and capturing those in the makeshift nation, and lining them up for execution.
When she enters the area where the Juni Taisen will take place, Boar thinks to herself about how disgusted she is by Monkey’s compassion and selflessness. Later, after the rules for the Juni Taisen are establishes, the floor of the meeting room collapses (Monkey previously put explosives underground to destroy the floor, preventing another warrior, Sheep, from killing everybody in the room with an explosive of his own) Boar comes face to face with Rabbit. She makes a plan to kill Rabbit by making him think she ran out of ammo for her machine guns (she has a special ability to fire ammunition without end) leading him to be wide open when he rushes into her, but the corpse of Takeyasu Tomita, the fighter who represents the Snake that was killed by Rabbit before the Juni Taisen officially began, takes her by surprise and locks her in a hold. Rabbit reveals his ability, to have any fighter killed by him revived as a zombie under his command, before he kills Boar.
Freudian Excuse? Any other mitigating factors?
Now, Boar's father was very abusive, and she actually had redeeming qualities initially, being willing to spare an enemy soldier’s life, and genuinely caring for her younger sister. But when her sister is chosen for the Juni Taisen over her, she willingly threw that all away, remorselessly driving Kiyoko to do actions that horrified even her father. The fact that Kiyoko, while taking joy in killing animals, was still an otherwise normal girl until Toshiko/Boar drove her to insanity is a clear sign that despite her father’s abuse, that’s not the reason Toshiko became the remorseless monster she later became.
There is a timeline that the closest thing to a main protagonist we have, Rat, seems to have hit it off well with her (Rat has the power to go through up to 100 possible outcomes of a situation, and decide which timeline he prefers) where she tells Rat her wish is to have a harem of men, but that was just them forming an alliance for both of their benefit, so that doesn’t really mean anything.
Heinous by the standards of the story?
With the countless amount of innocents she killed, both as a general, and through her sister, the only person who might have a higher body count than her is Snake, who burned down a hospital building and killed nearly everybody in there. (Rabbit did intend to essentially kill everybody on the planet when he finishes the Juni Taisen, but that would be through a reality warping wish, so even if he did succeed in that, there would be a HUGE matter of resources there). The exact amount of people killed by either of them isn’t clear, but considering how we also have Boar mentally torturing her sister for years and intentionally driving her to suicide, making her the only character in the show to have a crime that cruel, I say she stands out.
Final thoughts?
She has limited screentime due to only being shown alive for two episodes (one the first episode where she gets killed, and the other being a few seconds in episode 4 where she’s shown as a general ) so I can understand why some would vote her down, but I give her the anime adaptation of Boar a![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
And no, Snake doesn't count. He cares about his brother, and his pet reptiles. And Rabbit I believe is too insane to qualify.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Sep 2nd 2018 at 4:43:26 AM