During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yes to Dormammu and Turtle.
V
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to 5 Elementos characters proposed.
Goku Black
Turtle
Yea to the above
My next music candidates:
What's the work?
Rhapsody of Fire is an epic Symphonic Metal Band whose albums are a long saga known as the Emerald Sword saga, featuring the Warrior of Ice on a quest to recover the Emerald Sword and slay the evil Dark Lord Akron...now, after epic questing and battles? Akron (already listed and rightfully so) has won. The Emerald Sword is his. Akron restores to life his right hand woman...I give you The Queen of Dark Horizons.
Who is the Queen?
The Queen of Dark Horizons, whose true name is said to be unpronounceable. She is the daughter of evil the mistress of shame / her tomb is now open to allow her awake ...'cause she is the princess of sorrow,'cause she is the bringer of pain" (why yes, Lucas Turilli's English is not always the best, why do you ask?)...the Queen is the mistress and worshiper of the Dark God Kron, who Akron also serves, and was defeated and imprisoned by the angels in her tomb.
How she's back and "Her body is moving, her heart of bitch pounds / Is Kron who lives in her, in her open wounds / ,,,'cause she was devoted to darkness, drinking black blood for her god Witch of perversion and luxury suicide as true lover of Kron"
The Queen unleashes her army of the dead and helps to summon a horde of demons with Akron to sweep over the lands, initiating massive, massive slaughter, torture, rape and death, spreading pestilence and disease all over. The Queen? " Sodomy, pestilence, torture and bloodshed" is what she brings. Leading the demons, the Queen presides over horrific tortures and violence. The Warrior of Ice leads the kingdoms of the north in a desperate charge, tough the Queen and Akron reduce the kingdom of Aglarond to rubble and kill countless innocents with the Queen having people tortured for fun. The Warrior of Ice and is captured, tortured by Akron and the Queen...however, Akron's right-hand man, the half-demon Dargor, who has been manipulated into serving Akron and believing the Warrior is evil, realized that he's been tricked after he sees Akron's atrocities and the torture of the Warrior. Dargor summons the gargoyles to fight the demons and cuts down the Queen, destroying her and then defeating Akron and the demons as well.
Mitigating Qualities?
In terms of redeeming features? Hahahaha, no. The Queen is a devotee of a black god, who seeks to bring destruction, torture and pain, with endless suffering and evil all over the land. Heinousness, she's the facilitator for the worst Akron does (and Akron is really, really bad)...the two end as partners in evil without overshadowing the other, and the Queen is a willing, evil participant in the worst of all of it.
Conclusion?
Likewise easy yes, and there'll be one more from the Rhapsody songs.
Goku Black
queen
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
The Unknown Unknown
Yes to the people on this page and last.
Yeesh, y'all move fast..
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
The Queen of Dark Horizons
Dormammu.
Colonel Tortise.
Queen of the Dark Horizons.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Here's my write-up for Dormammu.
- The Dread Dormammu is the ruler of the Dark Demission, who has conquered and consumed countless other dimensions. Settings his sights on our world and has Baron Mordo steal the Wand of Watoomb. To do this Dormammu has Mordo hypnotise people into seeing their loved ones, while forcing to attack the Sanctum Sanctorum. When foiled by Doctor Strange and Spider-man, Dormammu tries to trick Mary Jane Watson into allowing him invade by pretending to be her father. Returning later, Dormammu has Carnage and Venom an interdeminsional prob. He then has Carnage suck the life force of innocent people to free him. A sadistic conquer Dormammu was just as evil as his servants.
Goku Black
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Where should he go in the tree with Carnage and Herbert Landon.
Ebola, Briz, Turtle, Dormammu, Darque, and the Queen.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Above Carnage since he the reason Carnage is doing the things he does.
Edited by Bullman on Sep 2nd 2018 at 1:11:29 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Yes to the queen.
Okay. I'm here to propose a character from the Jurassic Park novels. And I mean from the novels only. Not the films. DISCLAIMER: Everything is copied from Villains Wiki.
Who is Lewis Dodgson?
Lewis Dodgson originally appeared in Jurassic Park novels and served both as the main antagonist and the heavy. He was a high-ranked industrial spy, whom goal in the first novel was bringing Jurassic Park down by using Dennis Nedry. After Nedry got killed, and therefore failed, Dodgson went on to a more sinister plan. In "The Lost World", Dodgson wanted to get dinosaurs as hunting attractions. The novel make it clear that it was far from the first time Dodgson did something like that. As a veteran industrial spy, he stole other people's idea and endangered their life throughout his career. He even killed at least 10 people with an experimental rabies virus. By the time the story took place, Dodgson already had at least 10 victims.
Does he have redeeming qualities or Freudian Excuse?
The others Jurassic Park villains had. Dodgson don't. Some of the villains were tragic. examples: Indominus-Rex and Indoraptor grew up with a horrible treatment from their creators. Billy Yoder lost all of his friends. Others had freudian excuses. Examples: Vic Hoskins believed he's improving the world and save human lives with his ideas of biological weapons. Ludlow lived his life with severe inferiority complexes, knowing he could never be as successful and visionary as his uncle. Henry Wu lost his way after losing Hammond, who was a father figure for him. Even Eli Mills, who murdered his own boss and tortured Indoraptor, not to mention he endangered the characters for his selfish goals, had a brief moment of remorse about killing his boss. Dodgson have non. He was serious, dangerous, had no excuse/tragedy and never cared about anyone or anything beyond his own gains.
Is he heinous by the standards of the story?
Here are some of the heinous things he did:
1. Long before Billy Yoder and Eli Mills, Dodgson was the first villain who tried to kill a human being with his bare hands. Up until Dodgson, all of the attempts on human lives were commited by dinosaurs. When he tried to drown Sarah Harding, who trusted him to help her get to the island, he became the first human who tried to kill another human on-screen.
2. Even Mills, who became the third human who tried to kill another human on-screen, and the first to succeed, never commited a confirmed kill off-screen. Dodgson killed at least 10 people, some of them are children, without even the slightest remorse. When he spreaded the experimental rabies virus without informing the locals, he could kill the whole town.
3. He corrupted a poor man named Howard King. Not every JP villain, or any villain, can claim he/she corrupted someone. Indominus-Rex corrupted the raptors, but only to an extent. Dodgson corrupted King completely. Even ruined his life. He brought a good man like King to lose it all and take part of dangerous plans. King wasn't the only man Dodgson corrupted. Many other scientists fell victim to Dodgson's manipulations.
4. Every life he took, every theft he commited, every time he put someone in danger... No regrets. Ever.
5. When talking about his idea of making dinosaurs into hunting attractions, he dared to compare shooting a tiger to kill his own parents, mockingly said " it's a much more serious transgression to shoot a tiger than to shoot your parents". That cinical statement was part of a whole conversation about explotation, hollow arguements, hypocrisy and even sadism.
And finally: The book do everything in its power to emphatize Dodgson is a sadistic psychopath who know exactly what he's doing and have no wish to achieve anything which ain't directly connected to his narrow interests. In other words, he cant be argued as extremist, tragic, anti-villain or amoral.
My conclusion? Easy yes. Any murders committed by a human in the JP franchise is considered heinous. Dodgson murders ten people, making him a frickin' serial killer.
And one more thing. I can see arguments against him, but it is only because his role is inconclusive in the films. He's much more diabolical in the novels.
"Okay. I'm here to propose a character from the Jurassic Park novels. And I mean from the novels only. Not the films. DISCLAIMER: Everything is copied from Villains Wiki. "
Unless you wrote it at VW? I have concerns about this, then.
Can someone please give me access to the sandbox for Shelby's page? I feel "presumably succeeding" opens the door too much to actual success. Plus we know he didn't so that seems pointless.
V
Looper, wasn't it Stolen who did the original EP? Anyway, plagiarism is a no-no, but I'm gonna vote on Novel!Dodgson.
I also have serious concerns about offstage villainy with the "infected people with a virus" thing...is that onscreen or just dropped into narration?
Lizzid people!
Yeah, leaning towards a ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
on Dodgson.
Scary Movie 53 was the one who made the original proposal on VW, but I'm not sure if this is plagiarism, because I've seen users doing stuff like this before without any consequences whatsover.
Edited by Looperreallyreallyrocks on Sep 2nd 2018 at 1:39:51 AM
@Duck. I know, right? Albeit, you're fine with a very basic knowledge of spanish. Which is IMO not that different from English (unlike Japanese
, I'm never going to be a full weeb).
Now. My final CM EP from 5 Elementos.
Who is Colonel Turtle?.
A Metal Elemental with a unknown past. Turtle is the old General of the Black Division of millitary defense which believes that the best defense is a good attack. He's a robust old man carrying a giant metalic shell.
Turtle initiates the battle for Aya against the forces of the Other World (which are a millitary dictatorship too, but are being genuinely invaded) while ordering his soldiers to kill everything.
Turtle is a Blood Knight. A massive one that wastes no time in killing enemies. He don't care about killing mythical animals because his life is battle.
Turtle just kills everything at his sight with no mercy or humanity. In battle where all sides have at least one Pet the Dog moment, Turtle just spend his time killing and mocking his enemies while proclaiming the superiority of his own nation. He claims hating negotiations and believe that the best way to win the war is by killing all the people of the new continent. In the battle, Turtle proclaims that he don't care for the World Tree and is perfectly willing to endanger it.
When he interrogated a national prisoner. Turtle almost behead him.
When the children end up facing him, Turtle had the mision of capturing Lluvia Acuarrica, The Chosen One elemental of Alchaest. But he wastes time by beating the children to prove his superiority...over children.
He manages to take Lluvia' Best friend Sokar and squeezes him with his metallic claw with the intention of torturing him before killing him and then go to main Lluvia and kill her friends.
For someone that call himself "The perfect soldier", Turtle is really bad following orders.
Lluvia and friends seemingly defeat him after discover that Turtle is a cyborg whose shell protects his heart. But Turtle comes back due to Willpower and tries to kill Andra Loftus by slicing him using helicopter-like knives but his heart is pierced for a card threw for Sota Aquatro.
Colonel Turtle had finally died.
Heinous Standard?
The Sociopathic Soldier that can beat Briz. Briz had the emphasis on the Lack of Empathy while Turtle had the emphasis in the pointless violence.
He lives for war, he react at every issue with a "kill him". His soldiers fear him and his fellow generals hate him.
He tortures children and despite his proclaimed love for the army, he constantly ignores orders that Aren't "kill it".
Redeeming traits?
Nothing. He maybe had agency issue to do being a cyborg but...
The man that turned him into one is just disgusted at him. He didn't want to create a killing machine, just a strong soldier. There no indication that he was build to be a Blood Knight, he was build as a loyal soldier...which he certainly isn't.
He's a nationalist whose nation is a excuse to kill people. He claims to love the army but he breaks the rules as soon it don't involve killing. Heck, he tries to kill his coworker by "traition!"...just because his coworker told him to not maim and/or torture his target.
He did claim once that "only the strong can allow themselves to be pacifists" in a criticism towards his more rational colleage Colonel Invented (that's his name, this series love gag names). But that's just a product of Turtle loving war and killing than of him caring for the lives of his soldiers. Turtle don't care if they live or die, he cares that they kill.
Verdict?
He may have agency issues due to him being a millitary cyborg, but his pointless sadism and the fact that his own creator never mentions having altered his personality suggest otherwise.
Ultimately. Turtle seems to have being a adrenaline junkie that offered himself to a experiment which gave him power that he used to be the machine of violence that he always wanted to be.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Sep 2nd 2018 at 7:01:15 AM
Watch me destroying my country