During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Did Takaaki Tenjo from Kamen Rider Amazons ever get properly discussed? I know someone mentioned him.
Though technically season 2 just ended last week, but too my knowledge the only new relevant stuff is 'he's still completely unrepentant of his crimes'.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I wouldn't recommend talking about him yet. Two week rule still applies.
Well, it has been two weeks since the release of the Tomb of Sargeras raid for World of Warcraft and I'm bringing up Kil'jaeden because the cinematics for the raid portray him as having genuine regrets at the hour of his death. I'm going to link two cinematics: the first for some context and the second showing his actual death scene. Personally, I don't think the scenes redeem him but they do go a ways to humanizing him, but it will be up to you guys to determine if he should be cut or not.
edited 3rd Jul '17 7:14:20 PM by LoreDeluxe
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Wait a minute, it has only been 13 days, not two weeks. Therefore we cant discuss Kiljaden yet.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Grodd.
It's past midnight on the 4th where I live. We've had plenty of occasions in the past where a troper has started discussions when two weeks have passed in their time zone.
edited 3rd Jul '17 7:44:34 PM by LoreDeluxe
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Anyone know what time zone we use when it comes to a situation like this?
It's literally 13 days and a few hours from midnight in most time zones at worst...let it go.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
I really don't think this is something we need to stress over. That being said, I do prefer if people didn't discuss someone related to a discussion date the second it hits midnight where they live.
edited 3rd Jul '17 7:52:49 PM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Okay, so we can discuss him. Anyhow, I am honestly on the fence. He looks remorseful, but only when he realized his Taking You with Me scheme wouldn't work. He also never showed remorse until he was dying.
edited 3rd Jul '17 7:54:00 PM by hopeshalllive
I don't think it's that much of an issue honestly. If it's only a difference of a few hours I don't think it's a big deal. Anyway, after watching the video I think Kil'jaeden should be cut.
Well, I live in Europe so it's like 3 a.m. right now. I'm kind of sleepy.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Sweet mercy, the post count jumped. XD
Anyway, switching to a ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
on Grodd. Sorry it took so long to post.
Ok so listening to his dialogue I can tell he is being remorseful, and that he is hoping his master can be stopped. Also when he dies, or right before it there is a look of sadness. I would not necessarily say Kiljaden has a Redemption Equals Death moment, since it only happened when Taking You with Me did not work. Maybe Cry for the Devil or Alas, Poor Villain? Either way, he isn't a CM, he has to go.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Yeah, after watching those cutscenes? Scratch Kil'jaeden.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Probably classify as Death Equals Redemption?
So if we remove him, how many monsters will Warcraft have?
7, with potential for more in the future since it's an MMO
edited 3rd Jul '17 8:19:55 PM by LoreDeluxe
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Axe Kil'jaeden.
MMO? So it is a mass multiplayer organizer game? Never knew that type of game existed, let alone it could get that many CM's.
edited 3rd Jul '17 8:26:33 PM by hopeshalllive
RuneScape is a browser based MMO and it's managed to rack up 7 (technically 8) by itself.
edited 3rd Jul '17 8:31:11 PM by LoreDeluxe
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Well, the storyline generally never ends until the series itself dies. Not to say having too many CM's can't be an issue...
Anyway, kill Kil'jaedan's entry with magical fire.
Messenger from another dimension.
I just saw that Elysion from Dragons Dogma isn't on the game's YMMV page despite being approved here.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
If I had to define this trope to non-tropers, I'd probably use Palpatine, The Joker (The Dark Knight), Kilgrave, Zoom, or Angelus. Outside of sci-fi/fantasy, I'd probably go with Anton Chigurh, Frank Booth, or Commodus.