During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Lizzid people!
True, true.
Ah man, Darby's a stumper. He's the reason the main villain Clyde is the way he is, and has crimes Clyde doesn't (rape, mostly), but on the other, Clyde's actions sound like they go beyond well-intentioned extremism. Killing the judge in particular seems excessive; what could she have done, anyway?
The Judge accepted a clearly awful plea bargain. Honestly, the judge is portrayed as pretty dickish and not really caring about justice. Clyde does go well beyond the pale, though.
edited 13th Oct '14 8:43:24 PM by Lightysnake
@31562 Maybe you're right but what about Ethel murdering witnesses in the first film so she won't back to the insane asylum? Plus, I forgot to mention that she lets one of her injured victims trying to crawl away from her while she just laughs at him, meaning that it may go just beyond food.
edited 13th Oct '14 11:32:07 PM by VeryMelon
Amusing thing I just realized—we've talked on and off about whether a villain who wasn't meant to be a CM could end up qualifying due to writer incompetence. We've always concurred it would be possible, but isn't likely to happen very often, with Griffin from Red Zone Cuba being the only one that we'd agreed on.
Leafing back through the forum though, it turns out we already put one up—the Witch from The Black Death. The movie thinks that it has created a victim of the evil Catholics who are always persecuting the poor, innocent pagans. What it's actually done is create a psychopathic bitch whose crimes justify the persecution of her religion. The film tries so hard to make you "realize" that the Christians are as bad or worse than she is—complete with the protagonist failing to come up with an argument against her claims of moral superiority—yet fails completely. When the Knight Templar Supporting Leader reveals that he has brought the bubonic plague to her town, and that she and her followers (who commit atrocities in her name because she keeps them safe from the plague) are liable to become infected, the audience's reaction is to cheer.
It's not a case of a character who was meant to be a hero turning out to be a CM, but it is a case of a character who is meant to be an antivillain turning out to be a CM. Thought people might find that interesting.
edited 13th Oct '14 11:43:32 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Speaking of interesting cases, remember when we all head a good Face Palm about that miniseries that tried to retcon Sabretooth into a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds who only became a big cannibalistic meaniepants because he was forced to kill his own girlfriend? Well, recently it was revealed that, as a teenager, he would regularly beat his younger brother and force him to beat their sister. I'm not sure the thing with the girlfriend has been totally thrown out, but it does prove he was pretty damn evil loooooooong before he met her.
Thought that might be a relief to some of you.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll submit these tomorrow morning.
The cutscenes are pretty much already availiable and used to up-date the Bayonetta pages, though.
I'll write a proper write-up soon.
edited 14th Oct '14 4:44:06 AM by Shimegi
Maybe so, but some of us want to play it first. Since I've been quite spoiled now, I'll say this with massive spoiler alert warning for Bayonetta:
We'll have to cut Baldr. Loptr should be an easy keep instead.
edited 14th Oct '14 7:45:20 AM by Lightysnake
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Figured as such. Done on YMMV and requested for the CM page.
I just said people might want to play the damn game first!
edited 14th Oct '14 8:00:25 AM by Lightysnake
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Unedited, but no need to yell! 
Should Anime And Manga Monsters be split before it gets broken?
![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
Hmm, Anime & Manga probably should be split too. 
: Even though the Sandbox isn't finished, shall we split it, then swap?
edited 14th Oct '14 8:21:57 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I admit I am somewhat annoyed. I got this somewhat spoiled for me, and it's not like we need people being spoiled en masse with "why is the Father not on the list and who's this Loptr guy?'
Just leave it till the game's out.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Fair enough. My bad. How long to wait?
I think a good rule of thumb is to check the release date and go with at least that long.
ACW, do you mean split the sandbox then swap it when it's done?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Well, why not split the Sandbox then swap the current version? It's not finished, but it's still better than what's there currently.
Release date's the 24th FWIW.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Oh, right...
edited 14th Oct '14 9:06:17 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Well where would we keep the entries that aren't on the sandbox yet? Some of them were keeps but needed rewrites.
EDIT: How about this? We request to split Monster.Anime And Manga and we split the sandbox, but hold off on swapping until the sandbox is done.
edited 14th Oct '14 11:52:01 AM by TVRulezAgain
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sandbox split. And I can live with that.
edited 14th Oct '14 12:03:02 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Giving a ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Darby and a to the Star Trek example. Captain Planet Villain mannerisms or not, the fact that he blatantly refuses to use a cleaner method of disposing of waste in order to protect his profits makes him a solid contender in my book.
ACW took Snatcher, The Dark Princess, and Eddie Quest to the edit request thread. All three have been added to the ymmv pages, but they are still missing from the film and Western Animation pages. Not sure if this is better to note here, or the edit requests, just a heads up.
jjj
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
The mods are WAY behind on the Edit Locked Pages thread.
Not everyone lives in America. To many people, it's been already revealed legitimately.
It's your responsibility to decide whereas you want to find out or not, but if something's already out and it's not illegally so, then it shouldn't be kept in the attic. The Bayonetta pages have been up-dated in regards to the information in the new game, I don't see why this should be any different.
Don't forget all the people Darby tries to kill on his break out, though.