During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Barb / Temporary Kylo
More then happy to hear out Favourite. Was gonna ask about him with the new offscreen rules but wondered if the whole Ambiguity thing they were going for held him back still
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
To Wilson
Professor Gigachad
Wilton, that is quite the short EP though, I guess he is really simple.
The Emperor of Evil!
to Wilkes
I'm curious, would it be possible to have a sandbox for characters who were proposed as Complete Monsters but were voted down for not standing out, showing redeeming qualities, etc.? It would work like the already existing Former Complete Monsters sandbox with the same folders (redeeming qualities, not heinous enough, moral agency issues, etc.), only difference is that the character can't have been approved in the first place, only voted no. Would that possibly work? I'm just curious, thanks.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
I really Don't think that's necessary and would be way too big
The First man
The number of denied candidates is several times larger than the number of approved-then-cut candidates.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Could also stir up trouble to do so too.
Okay, here goes:
What is the Work
Still Life 1 and 2 and a pair of point-and-click murder mystery games where you take on the role of Victoria McPherson along with a couple others and try to solve a series of grisly murders.
The character I want to propose is from Still Life 2.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
The East Coast Killer, real name David Karson, spent the last 3 years abducting women, torturing and killing them on tape and sending the recordings to the authorities for his own amusement. According to his case file, he had killed at least 5 women in 2006 and 4 in 2008. He would play games with his victims for days on end until he grew bored, then torture them one more time before shooting them in the head. He likely had more victims as there is a dead body from 1993 in his house, his first murder.
He kidnaps a reporter working on his case named Paloma Hernandez and brings her to an old house in the middle of the woods where he had taken his previous victims. He puts a shock collar on her and claims that he's going to kill Victoria and her ex-partner Hawker because they're on his case. He poisons her and locks her in the basement, forcing her to search for the antidote as a game. After this, he has her complete more escape room-style tests for his own amusement while he watches on security cameras and speaks to her.
Later, when Victoria, the sheriff and a number of police show up and investigate the house, the Killer eventually appears and kills all of the police (we see five dead bodies) along with the sheriff, and drugs Victoria. He puts Victoria and Hernandez in an underground nuclear shelter. There they meet a hunter named Gary Anderson who claims that he's been kept for months and tortured, but is in fact David Karson himself in disguise, having killed the real Gary and his mistress Susan in the past. He tries to kill Hernandez and Victoria after they escape but ends up getting shot.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
No. He's obsessed with film and an actress named Veronica Lake, but there's nothing to suggest that this comes from a place of love.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
There are three other villains in these two games:
Mark Ackerman was a serial killer who lived and committed his crimes in the 1920s. He would paint images of prostitutes he hired and later kill them in ways that were predicted by his paintings. He also killed Gustav McPherson's lover in front of him. When he was eventually put in a mental institution, he had a pupil who carried out more crimes for him. However, he can't count because he was in love with a nurse he met in Prague and was heartbroken over her death from unknown causes, he was also abused by his father.
Richard Ackerman Valdez is revealed in the sequel to be the killer in the present day from the first game. He is the lover of Victoria and the grandson of Mark Ackerman. He became obsessed with the work of his grandfather and attempted to continue it by committing murders based on Mark's paintings, killing women and then mutilating their bodies post-death like Mark did. He murders 6 women and tries to kill a seventh before being stopped by Victoria. He tries to kill her and kills a witness in the process. In the sequel he reveals himself to Victoria and tries to kill her again. His crimes are very similar to Mark's but he has fewer victims, so I wouldn't say that he counts.
There's a secondary antagonist in the second game named James Hawker who seeks revenge on Victoria and had assisted the East Coast Killer, but I don't believe he has enough personal crimes to his name to meet the standard.
The East Coast Killer has a comparable body count to Mark, and he also tortured and played games with his victims, something Mark never did. So yes, I think he passes the standard.
Final Verdict?
I believe that he qualifies as a Complete Monster.
Edited by FarmerMac on Jan 24th 2022 at 11:43:38 AM
Professor Gigachad
I could possibly see it having some use in theory but it would be way too big to be manageable.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Yes to the ECK. Nice job on your first EP.
Imperfect Disgrace
East Coast Killer.
By the way, that's even better than when I did it the last two times; you are spot on.
Edited by Misry6 on Jan 24th 2022 at 8:47:38 AM
Just an empty void…
Thank you 
to Wilson and the killer
Don’t forget about my candidate too
Classy, Refined, Unstable
East Coast Killer
Is it alright if I add the crimes The Lich commits in Distant Lands? I don't remember who it was specifically but they suggested to split The Lich's writeup between his original version and the farmworld version. If it's ok that is
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Professor Gigachad
If you know the character well I don't see why you can't give that a try.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Yes there, G...I'm holding off on the Still Life one until I see just one thing verified.
YMMV.Nintendo Wars: Caulder's CM entry states "Unsatisfied with the initial results of the Creeper, Caulder amplified the virus to target almost exclusively children." This is incorrect, he states he was unsatisfied it only effected children, and upgraded it to effect everyone. The original strain also effected teenagers and stated not to infect anyone over 20.
Should the corrected version of the entry be put under Sandbox.Complete Monster Drafts where it will be moved to the appropriate places? Or is there some other place/way to implement the fixes?
Are these other details about the Creeper worth adding?
Incidentally, I have a cut to file: Jonah Hex, issue 3, the Sheriff of Kent, a bit I found on reread we missed.
The sheriff is a genocidal fuck who tries to instigate a race war, but there's a blink an you miss it panel of him cradling his dead brother and whispering his name. Easy to miss, but sadly disqualifying.
Unfortunately I'll agree to cut the Sheriff. I missed that one, guys. Mea culpa.
Also, freely supporting that edit for Caulder, and I'm not against adding those additions to the entry . Just toss your edit(s) into the Drafts page.
Edited by Scraggle on Jan 24th 2022 at 10:15:15 AM
I found another Generation 1 incarnation of Megatron that could be a candidate to add to the Transformers page. Specifically, from the Kid Stuff storybooks continuity.
What is the Work
In 1985, a publishing company called "Kid Stuff" produced several Transformers storybooks. These books take place in their own continuity separate from both the G1 cartoon and comics. Like most Transformers series, Megatron is the leader of the Decepticons and the main antagonist.Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
Megatron is the power-hungry leader of the Decepticons, who is obsessed with amassing enough power to conquer the entire universe. Upon arriving to Earth, he tricked thousands of humans into working for him, promising to award them with great profit only to destroy them all in a massive explosion after they were done digging out coal for him. The detonation also turned the coal into a large diamond in which Megatron used as a lens laser to melt the Rocky Mountains, killing even more people in the process. As the series progressed, his body count would only get higher as he tried to obtain massive amounts of oil through methods that caused several worldwide disasters.Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
I couldn't find any redeeming qualities or a valid Freudian Excuse.Final Verdict?
I think he's a, but what do you guys think?
Edited by CookieMonster69 on Jan 25th 2022 at 2:24:57 AM
The Emperor of Evil!
to Megatron and the Killer
Cut the Sheriff.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I mean it state he killed the thousands of humans working for him after they're done mining for coal.
![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
Edited by Powermaster201 on Jan 24th 2022 at 12:28:14 PM
Alvin, Briton, Waraabe, Viktor, Izan, Izan, Mephistopheles and Wilkes
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Eddie
Cut Sayn, Timmons and Sheriff
As for Megatron, how explicit is this bodycount?
He's definitely killed thousands, possibly millions.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Sherff
Yes to Mephistopheles and Wilkes.