Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Anybody mind if I quickly sum up this week's FanScription?

I don't mind.

I don't mind future.

Abstain on Josh.

to Natascha, Kung Sun, Fargood, and Number 16.

I give up on Josh too... this isn't going anywhere.

Actually just to move on from it I'll bring up something I wanted to talk about later tonight. From Dying Light:

• Rais, previously Colonel Kadeir Suleiman, reformed himself into a brutal warlord and began taking over Harran, torturing and killing anyone who stood in his way. Rais maims and kills his own soldiers for even small infractions, and withholds Antizin and other medical supplies from fellow survivors to increase the body count and his own power. Killing many members of the resistance group against him, many of whom are Crane's friends which Rais mocks him about, Rais ultimately betrays his own partners and army, slaughtering many of them before allying with the corrupt organization the GRE to enable his own escape from Harran to spread his evil worldwide. Though he once had a brother he loved, Rais acknowledges that his old self and all his care for anyone but himself is gone, showcased by his willingness to give the GRE methods to create a new zombie plague to kill countless people, and embraces his philosophy that chaos and suffering is the natural order, and only the strong can stand above it and torment the weak.

Effort post here. Now, I see where Age was coming from but I'm not so sure about him having watched through the final cutscene (to which I'll drop a link here).

In particular we're given the dialogue:

"You were right about one thing Crane: Suleiman is dead! He died with his brother. In this city. You don't even belong here Crane. You don't know what suffering is. I will teach you Crane... you will suffer alongside me!"

He... doesn't sound cheerful there to me. He does still say "suffer alongside me" so I don't think he's completely forgotten his past and it's a huge red flag to me that he goes from mentioning his brother to monologuing about suffering.

He might have allied with the GRE but when we're given the backstory that he snapped with his brother's death, an NPC saying he was horrible before but completely lost it with bro's death and this line from the character himself in his last outing, we've got something of a pattern that's giving me serious pause. I don't think the fact that he left his brother's photo in a hotel room disproves that he loved him. It's rather segmented but I'm finding there's too much in-game evidence and strong implication that he loved his brother. The sense I have to say I'm getting more than anything is he snapped towards misanthropy and he's using the GRE for his ends rather than not loving his sibling. I'd like to bring this one up to talk about but for my part I'm leaning cut.

I'm saying no to Josh. I haven't been able to follow head nor hide of it and subsequent effortposts haven't helped me in the slightest.

Likewise, having talked it with you, I don't think poor writing necessarily excuses a redeeming quality; cut Rais, sad as it is.

Next minor Marvel baddie! This guy comes from Captain America's very first ongoing series, the one that started all the way back in 1968. My guy comes from the arc formed by issues #206—#208.

Enter the Swine!

Who is the Swine? What has he done?

Comandante Hector Santiago, better known by his derisive, hated nicknamed "the Swine," is an uber-sadistic Central American warden. The Swine rules his prison ("Rio de Muerte", due to its proximity to a body of water inhabited by Man-Fish, a man-eating creation of Arnim Zola) like his own personal dictatorship. Innocent people are imprisoned in his camp for whatever reason where the Swine works them to the bone when he's not torturing them to death for any reason he can think of.

Case in point—the first time the Swine is seen, it's when he orders two starved prisoners brought to him for "causing an issue in the work detail" ("issue" ranges from anything to "insulting the Swine" to "not working hard enough" to "being deliberately provoked by the guards"). When the older of the two begs for food, the Swine obliges him and treats the starving man to a feast. The Swine encourages him to eat until he's full, at which point the Swine starts to feed him by force, shoving food down his throat until his skinny stomach ruptures and he dies in agony. When the younger of the two prisoners revolts against this treatment and calls Hector by his nickname, the Swine shoots him dead and orders the two corpses cleaned out of his office like yesterday's trash.

Other delightful ways we see him torturing his prisoners:

• One man is suspended mid-air between ropes tugged in either directed (think stretch torture on the rack); having already been up there for a few hours, the Swine casually orders him to stay up there for ten more
• One man forced to roll boulders all day begs for lighter work. The Swine obliges him by forcing to roll the boulders using nothing but his nose.
• Prisoners are forced by the dozen into cramped metal cells that basically act as ovens—the Swine pushes a furnace into the room that starts to slowly heat up the metal cells, slowly cooking the prisoners alive

When the Swine meets Captain America and ends up beaten and humiliated by him, the Swine refuses to suffer the blow to his ego. The Swine captures Captain America and tries to torture him with a flamethrower; when the Swine's own cousin tries to stop him, he decides to fry her alive as well. The arrival of the Man-Fish stops him, and the creature rips him in half.

Any mitigating factors?

Yeah, not exactly many. The Swine barely even tolerates his cousin's presence in the camp to begin with; she stays around to troll him and to hopefully bait someone into coming to the camp and stopping him. When she pushes his patience one times too many, he decides to murder her.

Conclusion?

For a 70s Marvel comic? Wow. The Comics Code authority rarely permitted villains as sadistic as this guy during the time, let alone in a mainline title like Captain America as opposed to a comparatively obscure one like Micronauts.

Edited by Scraggle on Sep 29th 2021 at 2:17:20 AM

So I think for Hydra I'll do this:

• Hydra:
  • Strucker
    • Marvel Comics Presents Vol. 1 issue #157's "Jury of Your Peers": Number 16

Now, the question: Should Gorgon go there? I say yes, since he was a high-ranking member (the leader?). But the other question is: Before or after 16? He appeared later (2004 as opposed to 1994), but obviously was a much bigger player.

EDIT: Yes to the Swine. I mean, he's no Skull but not for lack of trying.

Edited by ACW on Sep 29th 2021 at 4:20:05 AM

Swine.

Im perma abstaining on Josh. I still have no clue whats going on and its been days of this...

to Swine

But on Rais I'll abstain due to lack of familiarity with the work.

I'll abstain for Josh as well but I'm leaning on a no.

Edited by Powermaster201 on Sep 29th 2021 at 4:22:43 AM

Yes to Swine, cut Rais and likewise a no to Josh. Enough is enough on this one. If someone else explains it better later on, then I'll consider it then

Yes to the Swine.

Yee to The Swine.

to Josh, I still don't know what's going on.

Cut Rais.

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Sep 29th 2021 at 1:22:41 AM

Cut Rais.

To be fair we have had cases, where a redeeming quality ends up, subverted due to poor writing Ahmanet comes to mind, though in this case with Rais it seems like there is too much leaning on the fact he cares about his brother, Cut.

Also Swine

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Sep 29th 2021 at 1:22:26 AM

Rais seems like a cut.

Big Yes to the Swine and Number 16, great work haha, I'll have my own Marvel baddie you tossed me later today hopefully

For Rais, as we talked it's certainly a tough one, been a fair bit since I played it but I do suppose I'll lean cut. I feel like him allying with the people who screwed his brother over and said brother being so nonexistent to the plot that he is only mentioned by Rais once and an NPC once (to such a point that when I originally played I totally missed the first NPC talking about said brother lmao) gives some leeway, but for as poor writing as it may be it does give off indicators of "he once cared about someone and it was their death that pushed him over the edge". I don't fully subscribe to his last words about suffering being solely exclusive to his bro—Crane had just spent a whole game fucking with his enterprises and cutting off his hand lmao—but the subtext is there so I'll go with a cut.

Edited by Ravok on Sep 29th 2021 at 1:26:48 AM

I do agree it is a tough one and concur multiple interpretations could be invited thanks to how as you pointed out his characterization ain't exactly the Cadillac of writing and if someone's got a counter I'm more than happy to hear it. My issue is more there's a pattern I feel indicates at least a modicum of care staying with him and I'm not sure there's anything outright refuting it. If there's more to it I'm more than happy to hear though!

Btw, found the original work that Josh was from: The Hohenzollern Empire. Remember to link the original game in your EP next time.

Yes to Swine.

Cut Rais.

Edited by Bullman on Sep 29th 2021 at 3:30:25 AM

So the FS is indeed doing "What if 'The Amazing Spider-Man 3' Happened?" and no one counts. Venom/Flash Thompson is very tragic, not in control and does a Heel–Face Turn by the end —to the point the government is gonna recruit him as an operative. Fiers definitely has the actions, combining human testing with the Venom symbiote to gaslighting and forcing a disabled Flash to submit to his will, killing Curt Connors who was working against him through Venom and basically everything in the first two movies is still canon as well—and here comes the but—BUT when Richard Parker taunts Fiers about Norman dying, he's clearly angered by this, meaning he had both genuine loyalty and care toward his boss.

We missed discussion on the Monsters Inc. FS too. No one worth discussing there though.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Sep 29th 2021 at 2:25:11 AM

Does someone wanna look into Josh? Honestly I'd rather stop even giving this one attention unless it's going to be done properly... continuing to chew up post space to stagger information is just going to make more of a headache for everyone.

Cut Rias I guess. Yeah I think that ambiguous care about his brother is why I didn't EP Rias when I was posting the Fan Zone Killer. Thought I may have over thought that when Age got Rias approved, but I guess not. Seriously though what is up with these one missable redeeming qualities that getting otherwise perfect CM examples cut?

Edited by G-Editor on Sep 28th 2021 at 10:36:14 PM

No one mourn Rais in this case though, guy is so damn boring that Fan Zone Killer of one single sidequest is more interesting, creepy, and memorable than he is, by a long shot

On that note I kind of have issues with the other listed CM Selim from memory, I'll need to rewatch his questline though so stay tuned for another potential issue there lmao

I think for Hydra I'll have Gorgon at the end of the tree, since he appears last.

I agree with future's assessments regarding FS.