During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yep to Paavo. I remember that game. I don't think I ever played it but it stuck in my mind for some reason. One of those odd little one shot games that never became a series.
Again, moved my vote here. Based on the EP, ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Paavo.
@Imperial The differences don't sound like they'd be enough. Maybe, but probably not.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Aug 2nd 2021 at 5:32:12 AM
Monster.Comic Books says "Newspaper Comics can also be found here". Are there actually any examples from newspaper comics?
Lizzid people!
Sure to Paavo
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
There were some from Dick Tracy, but that has its own page now.
Professor Gigachad
I remember checking that a while ago and I don't think there are any.
![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Aug 2nd 2021 at 5:34:11 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
x4 Tintin, Spirou & Fantasio, some He-Man newspaper comics, several
Edited by nwotyzal on Aug 2nd 2021 at 5:34:36 AM
Professor Gigachad
Tintin is under Comic Book/
The Emperor of Evil!
- Alter Echo: Paavo is once a brilliant Shaper and the "father" of Echo, whom he abused by using the sentient Planet's flesh to make an army of drones for him to rule over. When he learns that Echo is working with the hero to set itself free from his father's control, he orders his henchmen to use Neuralizers to destroy it's memories and emotions for defying him. It is soon revealed by Echo about his ultimate plan: Paavo will use the Seedlings as genocidal weapons, launching them onto other planets inhabited by humans and have them wipe out all life on them so he could remake these planets in his image with Echoplasm and rule over them as a god.
I don't know which trope he fits better on so I'll be sticking with Omnicidal Maniac for now since his whole scheme is to wipe out all life in the universe thing (human life form to be exact).
Edited by Powermaster201 on Aug 2nd 2021 at 9:02:50 AM
Going off 43110's post, how does this sound as a revised entry for Soth?
- Norman Soth was a CIA agent who, after being left behind by the CIA in Indonesia and losing his leg to a land mine, swore revenge against the U.S. Allying himself with Suhadi Sadono, Soth assists Sadono in the latter's takeover of the U.S. embassy in East Timor, which ends with multiple deaths. In the process of stealing the units needed to transport smallpox for Sadono's plan, Soth orders his men - to whom he made it clear that any screw-ups on the job would result in consequences for their families - to Leave No Witnesses at Saulnier Cryogenics over his men's reservations. Purchasing a smallpox sample from a bio-terrorist group, Soth gives it to Sadono to unleash in Springfield, Texas, resulting in the deaths of several people. Caring only for revenge, Soth intends to unleash the last virus at LAX International Airport with the intent of killing thousands of travelers.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
How's this?
Edited by DaceyMormont on Aug 2nd 2021 at 6:49:23 AM
to Paavo
Lizzid people!
Needs to be cut down two around maybe 100+ words.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Paavo.
Current mood: sick of your shit
Paavo
@Ansongc2000 I think he's been discussed before and downvoted. Not sure about Stargate, but RWBY's eight villains are spread across several different genre pages, so it probably doesn't warrant a franchise page at least not yet.
Edited by SumDumNerd on Aug 2nd 2021 at 7:21:16 AM
Read "Ghost Stories of Remnant" here.
Professor Gigachad
Most of Stargate's villains are from Live Action TV but not all seven so that is why.
I guess or RWBY we could just wait for one more keeper before making the page.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Dice the last sentence for Soth, it's unnecessary to his crimes and much of it can be inferred from the proceeding sentences. I seem Sadono himself likewise has a summary that can probably go.
Done. Sorry if it was too long; I'm very wordy. I get going and find it hard to stop.
"The Juice is Loose."
As a Stargate fan. To be honest I personally would make one, if not for the fact that it has a lot of untapped medias which might have a keeper or two, namely the novels.
Edited by Bullman on Aug 2nd 2021 at 8:53:12 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
No worries Dacey, thank you for your hard work in re-evaluating him.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Paavo.
What is the work?
CSI: NY is an American Police Procedural.
"Party Down" is the 13th episode of the 7th season.
A party on a truck ends up in the Hudson River, and it is initially believed to be a mob hit due to the death of an underworld figure's daughter.
However, it turns out the girl was not even supposed to be there, and this is all the petty doing of a vengeful loner posing as a survivor.
Who is Neal Cooper and what has he done?
Neal Cooper, feeling lonely and vengeful, had invited several people, including 4 specific people he blamed for his misery, to a truck party, sending the four in particular commissioned invitations. One of the partygoers was unable to attend, so she sent a friend in her place.
Unbeknownst to the partygoers, Neal had previously hot-wired the truck, padlocked the back shut, and fused the escape hatch in place.
However, due to shoddy welding, one of the partygoers, Chris Boyle, manages to crack open the escape hatch, and therefore save most of the partygoers save for what is later revealed to be four victims.
Despite being saved himself by one of his intended victims, Neal kills him so as not to be recognized.
Subsequently, Neal poses merely as a survivor. When he recognizes his face from a sketch, he tweaks it to frame the man he killed.
When confronted by Detectives Mac Taylor and Jo Danville with the evidence against him, Neal rants about how nobody treated him well from a social standpoint.
Unfortunately, since one of his victims is the daughter of a mob boss, he is shot by the mob boss himself.
Mitigating Factors?
The CSI team consider him to be responsible for his own isolation, and believe that he chose to become bitter and vengeful. They have disdain for him over the fact that he doesn't take responsibility for his actions.
Otherwise, he shows no remorse, accepts no culpability, and expresses nothing but disdain for the survivors. Any pretence of him caring about Jessica is shown to be possessiveness, as demonstrated when he tried to have her killed because she wouldn't be with him.
Additionally, Neal seems less affected by the deaths of his parents than he should be, having used their insurance policies to fund his revenge.
Heinousness?
In addition to having stalked his four primary targets, Neal has an attempted bodycount of at least twenty, successful bodycount of four.For a loner with few resources other than payouts from his parents' life insurance, he still has one of the highest individual attempted bodycounts in the CSI: NY series.
His modus operandi of deliberately trapping several people in a moving (and later sinking) vehicle where a party is happening seems unique for the series, and potentially the CSI-verse at large.
Verdict?
Viable Contender.
He tries to kill 20 or more people at once. He only manages to kill four, but the attempt counts for something.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Aug 2nd 2021 at 10:45:49 AM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
Hmm...I'm just thinking of heinous standards here. CSI may not have the highest compared to say Criminal Minds, but it's definitely up there. Does he stack up against the likes of human traffickers and serial killers?
The Draftsman of Doom
~miraculous: Wouldn't you say attempted mass murder stands out even if you only succeed at killing a smaller number of people? Especially considering that as far as I can recall, nobody else traps a large number of people in a sinking truck.
One of the other tropers who is familiar with the CSI-verse.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Aug 2nd 2021 at 10:49:52 AM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
True. To be honest, I was just evaluating him compared to the likes of Darius and Williams.
But I think I'll lean to Neal.
Who's Miraculous?
to Neal. Trying to kill 20 does seem to push him enough to meet the HS
Yeah to Paavo.