Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Rudra, and Mombi
Current mood: sick of your shit
to The Vaen, Daiembert, Rudra and Mombi.
Yes to Rudra and Mombi.
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
Based on the EP, to Rudra.
Due to recent circumstances where I let certain things get to me when I should've totally known better—and upset a lot of people while doing so, I'm gonna step away from the threads for a bit of a break to clear my head. The goal is to be back in a limited capacity when the time to discuss Quantumania arrives on 3/3—I'll still answer PMs to anyone who reaches out in the meantime—and then back to full capacity when discussion for Scream VI arrives on 3/24. Again, I'm very sorry for what transpired and wish everyone luck in the meantime.
Hope to have both a fresh mind and fresh eyes when the time arrives.
Wild Child
Mombi.
A nice swimmer
Heya, i added a sandbox for an Ace Attorney page (In the monster sandboxes page). Does it look good?
Take care future.
Edited by TheWrongOne41 on Feb 17th 2023 at 8:57:32 AM
Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice.
The wifi here sucks
Lies and Violence!
Yes to Agamemnon, the Wicked Witches of the West and North, the Vaen, Daimbert and Rudra.
What's the work?
Superman: Red Son is an animated film adaptation of the famous elseworlds comic of the same name. You all know the story of Superman: alien refugee with god-like powers, sent to Earth after his planet exploded. But, rather than getting raised by old Ma and Pa Kent, here Kal-El instead lands in the Soviet Union in the 1940s. Upon developing and showing off his amazing new powers to his childhood friend, Lana Lang, she encourages him to use his abilities to help the state, and bring the freedom of communism to the world.
I'm sure you all know this version of the story too. Things don't exactly go well, but before I can get into a certain robot alien with a skull motif, I wanted to bring focus to a minor, but no less pivotal, villain...
Who is Joseph Stalin?
The leader of the Soviet Union, Stalin is... well, come on. You know who he is. He's fucking Stalin. Acting as Superman's father figure, Stalin touts him as the communist ideal, using him as a propaganda tool while ensuring the Kryptonian believes everything they are doing is for the good of the people.
In truth? Stalin is... I mean, again, he's fucking Stalin. Beneath the Superman's notice, the USSR has any dissidents of the state rounded up and either mass-executed or sent to be worked to death in gulags—prisons specifically covered in lead so Superman does not find out about the atrocities he is unwittingly supporting. Of course, Superman does eventually discover them... and finds Lana, who was imprisoned simply for knowing Superman's true identity and shortly after dies of an illness that has been running rampant throughout the camps.
Superman naturally confronts Stalin about all this, and Stalin attempts to assure the Kryptonian that these were all tragic necessities to remove the weak and protect the welfare of the USSR—which Superman rightfully calls out as protecting his own welfare, to which Stalin confirms they are one in the same. Unfortunately for the Soviet leader, he really badly misreads the room after this, responding to Superman's statement that changes need to be made with what is essentially "I encourage you to try, but governing doesn't work out that way, and in time you'll come to see that my way is the right way."
Cue heat vision.
Mitigating factors?
He's. Fucking. Stalin. No. Nada. Nunco. Nyet. Nein. The trope page for the film says he's a Well-Intentioned Extremist, but... come on. He outright states that he considers his welfare and the welfare of the USSR to be one and the same. He doesn't care about helping people, he just wants to elevate himself.
Is he heinous enough?
It's explicitly spelled out that his mass executions and slave camps have led to millions of deaths. Brainiac tries to blow up the planet, and Superman leads his own invasions of other countries (though the death counts there are only in the thousands), but they're both powerful aliens. For a human dictator, Stalin is more than cruel enough, and the only reason he doesn't use Superman to do even worse is implicitly because—even as a loyal servant of the USSR—the Kryptonian is too kindhearted to willingly partake in such atrocities. The horrors of the gulags are more than bad enough to make up for the lack of a bigger body count anyway.
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Mar 2nd 2024 at 5:19:09 AM
The Ultimate Lifeform
to Joseph Stalin. It's amazing how Stalin vs Hitler was such an extreme case of Evil Versus Evil in real life... Also while I don't like Superman killing... I have to say I have very dry eyes upon hearing about Stalin's death.
No issues to Uncle Joe.
- Xenoverse 2: Zamasu is as arrogant a god as ever in the story mode. An egotist who can be tricked into mentoring the main character, Zamasu's ultimate goal is the eradication of mortals to the last in his "Zero Mortals" plan. Having swapped bodies with Goku, Zamasu gleefully begins to wipe out numerous mortals with full intent to eradicate them in every single timeline. Upon fusing with himself to create "Fused Zamasu," Zamasu then attempts to consume every timeline upon his final defeat,
- Mat Kilau: The cruel warrior Toga is an easterner who knows the Malay people well, utilizing his knowledge to exploit and murder them for the British colonizers. Opening the film by laying siege to a village and torturing the people for information, Toga happily leads the slaughter of them when none will talk. Toga is seen to manage slave quarries, regularly torturing and killing workers while also attempting to draw Mat Kilau out by slaughtering innocent Malaysians across the nation.
Yes to Joseph Stalin who is well known for his wise words.
Joseph Stalin.
Lemme get this in now:
What;s the work?
Little Big Man is a 1970 Western starring Dustin Hoffman as an ancient former army man named Jack Crabb. Detailing his eventful life from hospice. Jack's been through a heckuvalot and, well...he's got a story to tell. And the most evil man he ever encountered is none other than this fellow: George Armstrong Custer.
Who is General Custer?
A brutal colonel who leads his forces along the western frontier, Custer is all the nastiest traits of the American army jacked up heavily. And he HATES Natives. Now, Jack was raised with the Cheyenne, and isn't keen on the virulent racism. He joins the army to get up to something. But Custer orders a brutal massacre of women and children. Jack witnesses his old friend Shadow killed and barely manages to save Shadow's child.
Jack returns to the Cheynne, but Custer makes another attack on their village with a full massacre. Jack's Native family is slaughtered, women and children alike. A horrified, broken Jack sneaks into Custer's tent to murder him, but loses his nerve. Custer is heavily amused and spares J Ack solely to let him live with the failure.
custer later uses Jack as a scout, still amused and knowing Jack will likely lie to him. Jack tells him of an overwhelming force of Natives waiting. Custer just thinks they're defenseless civilians and leads in his forces to Little Big Horn...
Custer goes mad as his forces are slaughtered, before he tries to kill Jack and is cut down by a Native warrior at last.
Mitigating issues?
Not a damn one. Custer is a racist, genocidal monster. He only spares Jack because, frankly, the idea of Jack being unable to kill him and living in shame amuses him. It's a damn sight more sadistic than Custer is usually portrayed.
Conclusion?
Keeper.
The Ultimate Lifeform
Man we're getting all the adaptations of real historical monsters tonight aren't we? to General Custer. Bastard deserved his death.
Carrot Clone
Custer, who thankfully did not have his revenge
Wicked Witch of the West, Mombi, Stalin
My Zamasu writeup:
- Dragon Ball: Fusions: Zamasu is an apprentice Supreme Kai who stole the body of Goku to become Goku Black so that he could carry out his crusade to purge all mortals from reality, starting with Future Trunks' timeline. Upon discovering the Timespace Rift that allowed him to access all timespaces, he began cleansing them one-by-one and making them disappear. He also recruit many alternate versions of Zamasus from different timespaces where he came very close to wiping out all life across reality.
Speaking of which...
Finally, my FBI one? From a crime show, I give you Colin Kent. After this, Closer and Dr. Hendricks'll get done, then onto Warcraft and Garo.:
Who is Colin Kent?
A wealthy financier who's superficially pleasant and charming. Colin Kent has a bit of a secret: he's one of the single most prolific sex traffickers on the planet. Kent's organization is encountered several times in the show when girls show up dead, but...Kent runs a worldwide human trafficking scheme. Young women are lured in. Teenagers or even underage girls, and trafficked. Pimped out to wealthy men and pedophiles all over the world, Kent then endures he has blackmail material on them.
And the girls? Get abused, put in horrific brothels, or sometimes just straight up murdered and disposed of when their usefulness is expunged. The first operation takes place when dead girls are discovered and the FBI centers into it, to learn Kent just had them murdered like they meant absolutely nothing. The FBI closes in, but Kent ends up fleeing. Along with another young girl named Sunny he intends to traffick.
The team proceeds to later team up with the international units, where they center on Kent to catch him after more girls turn up dead and see the trafficking he's engaged in with Europe. They intend to catch Kent and also get his blackmail material so they can nail everyone. Since Kent? Plans to use it to essentially owns people.
Kent's exchanges are located and the fugitive is cornered. Resulting in a hand to hand fight (?!) where Kent is beaten down. Sunny is rescued and Kent is incarcerated, busted fully for sex trafficking and murder.
mitigating issues?
What, human trafficking of hundreds of innocent girls, that we see wouldn't be enough? Murder? He has no standards, no humanity, nothing. Kent is the worst of the worst and one of the worst traffickers ever seen in a crime show. Heart as black as pitch who sees countless young women raped and murdered.
conclusion?
A VERY easy keeper
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
. What the actual fuck is wrong with him?!
Carrot Clone
Idk Kent seems like a nice guy, prob bakes cakes, goes to church, visits him mom, and takes good care of childre—-
Yeah fuck that, big to him
And a to Stalin as well
Edited by therealjackieboy on Feb 17th 2023 at 10:45:35 AM
"It doesn't matter anymore. You win. It is Duck Season."
The wifi here sucks
Yes to Stalin, Custer (man I love when bad guys end up setting up their own death) and Kent
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Mombi, Kent, and the two historical CMs.
@ACW: She's brought down by Glinda.